5th Gens - Which engine would you like to see and think we will see?

Dosent seem to be alot of discussion the the powertrain on the 5th gen, granted its pretty early to be worrying about it :D


So anyway, what engine would you like for these to have? A beefed up LS1? Forced Induction? whatever!

Then what do you think we will end up getting?


I would love to see a supercharged LS1 with forged interals and all the goodies.

I'll take the safe route and guess:

3.9 V6 in the base car.

6.0 LS2 in the Z28 or SS or whatever they call it.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224471&highlight=5th+gen+engine

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I'll take the safe route and guess:

3.9 V6 in the base car.

6.0 LS2 in the Z28 or SS or whatever they call it.

I totally agree.

and if we see a third engine it will most likly be the 5.3L LS4

5.3 + 6.0L LS2

... and for the record i would like to see some forced induction

I thought it was already pretty much discussed...

Camaro SS = 6.0L LS2

and then 12-18 months later...

Camaro Z28 = LS6 :D

Originally posted by jg95z28
I thought it was already pretty much discussed...

Camaro SS = 6.0L LS2

and then 12-18 months later...

Camaro Z28 = LS6 :D

LS6 will probably be gone by then... LS7 would probably have a better shot, though I'd be surprised to be it in a Camaro... but you never know.

I'll go out on a limb here and hope for the ECOTEC 2.2 with 140 hp at the flywheel no less ..... just kidding :-)

Back to reality, I'd like to see 6.0 LS2 with those slick 3 valve heads that were mentioned a little while ago. They would be nice, if it was an option - otherwise, gimme the 6.0 with the plain-jane, 2 valve heads and 400 hp.

Sorry, but I just don't think that Camaro is all about turbo- or super-charging - at least from the factory. That's for some other car.

Originally posted by Valkyn71
Dosent seem to be alot of discussion the the powertrain on the 5th gen, granted its pretty early to be worrying about it :D


So anyway, what engine would you like for these to have? A beefed up LS1? Forced Induction? whatever!

Then what do you think we will end up getting?


I would love to see a supercharged LS1 with forged interals and all the goodies.


It's either "Blast From The Past" day, or it's "Beat A Dead Horse Wednesday". :lol:


Just the same at the risk of being repetitious (again), an LS2 and a base V6 of over 200 horsepower is a given. A middle V8 is most likely. The only middle V8 is the 5.3.

That's your engine line up.

Originally posted by guionM
A middle V8 is most likely.

I remember for at least 3 years all we heard from Scott and others was that a mid level V8 was impossible from a cost perspective, even though we all nearly unanimously said it was necessary from a sales/market appeal standpoint.

I'm hoping we (this board) helped make a difference on that issue, not to mention a bunch of other 5th gen issues.

Before the GM police in black Suburbans come to get me....THIS IS ONLY SPECULATION............

What if........

In addition to a 3.9 base V6, there were more than one version of the 5.3. One with 300-310 hp and a second hotter 5.3. The hotter 5.3 would perform as well or better than the GTO's current LS1.

What if this "hotter" 5.3 were a powerplant for a Camaro SS model in the mid $20's designed to take on....and beat.... Mustang GT?

What if there were another engine beyond and instead of LS2 . What if this engine had a version in the 390-400 hp range for another and higher end SS model ( over the 5.3 SS). And a hotter version of this same engine could form the nucleous of a revived and plenty serious Z/28 Special Performance Package.


Just saying, What If.;)

Originally posted by Z284ever
Before the GM police in black Suburbans come to get me....THIS IS ONLY SPECULATION............

What if........

In addition to a 3.9 base V6, there were more than one version of the 5.3. One with 300-310 hp and a second hotter 5.3. The hotter 5.3 would perform as well or better than the GTO's current LS1.

What if this "hotter" 5.3 were a powerplant for a Camaro SS model in the mid $20's designed to take on....and beat.... Mustang GT?

What if there were another engine beyond and instead of LS2 . What if this engine had a version in the 390-400 hp range for another and higher end SS model ( over the 5.3 SS). And a hotter version of this same engine could form the nucleous of a revived and plenty serious Z/28 Special Performance Package.


Just saying, What If.;)


So we are talking 5 or 6 engines here?

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
I remember for at least 3 years all we heard from Scott and others was that a mid level V8 was impossible from a cost perspective, even though we all nearly unanimously said it was necessary from a sales/market appeal standpoint.

I'm hoping we (this board) helped make a difference on that issue, not to mention a bunch of other 5th gen issues.

The big difference this time around is that the Camaro will share it's front end structure (as well as other parts) with higher volume vehicles. Since some of these vehicles will have the 5.3, development of, crash testing, as well as other cost are spread out a large number of vehicles, not just Camaro-Firebird.

Ford still manages to do things like this, despite not selling massive quanities. But GM is extremely cost conscious ("cheap" in our dictionary), and if it doesn't have alot of zeros in the production numbers, getting them to cough up the cash apparently is like pulling teeth.

Originally posted by Z284ever
What if this "hotter" 5.3 were a powerplant for a Camaro SS model in the mid $20's designed to take on....and beat.... Mustang GT?

What if there were another engine beyond and instead of LS2 . What if this engine had a version in the 390-400 hp range for another and higher end SS model ( over the 5.3 SS). And a hotter version of this same engine could form the nucleous of a revived and plenty serious Z/28 Special Performance Package.

Just saying, What If.;)

Like a 3v 5.3L 10.9:1 putting out 400HP+

Originally posted by jg95z28
I thought it was already pretty much discussed...

Camaro SS = 6.0L LS2

and then 12-18 months later...

Camaro Z28 = LS6 :D

LS6 puts out almost the same HP as the LS2, but has a weaker torque curve, Why not just use the newer more advanced LS2.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Before the GM police in black Suburbans come to get me....THIS IS ONLY SPECULATION............

What if........

In addition to a 3.9 base V6, there were more than one version of the 5.3. One with 300-310 hp and a second hotter 5.3. The hotter 5.3 would perform as well or better than the GTO's current LS1.

What if this "hotter" 5.3 were a powerplant for a Camaro SS model in the mid $20's designed to take on....and beat.... Mustang GT?

What if there were another engine beyond and instead of LS2 . What if this engine had a version in the 390-400 hp range for another and higher end SS model ( over the 5.3 SS). And a hotter version of this same engine could form the nucleous of a revived and plenty serious Z/28 Special Performance Package.


Just saying, What If.;)


What if, huh? ;)

Well, what if the year the Camaro returns, it's as you say?

What if there is only base and a performance version (the SS), & that 5.3 had the same performance as the current LS1 SS, but was geared to outrun the new Mustang GT?

What if the 2nd year of production, not only did a convertible come out, and a V8 option on the base Camaro, but also a 6.0 liter LS2 Z28?


....gotta run now. There's a couple of black Suburbans pulling up in front.

For the Camaro to be competitive it will need the 400hp LS2 at the very least.

Maybe an LS7 or supercharged LS2 to compete with the Cobras.

Originally posted by Gripenfelter
For the Camaro to be competitive it will need the 400hp LS2 at the very least.

Maybe an LS7 or supercharged LS2 to compete with the Cobras.

Why?

With a 50 horse disadvantage, an LS1 already has a top speed advantage over the current Mustang Cobra of 5-10 mph.

Despite a supposed 50 horse disadvantage, the new Mustang apparently accelerates at least as quickly as LS1 F-bodies.

Z06 Corvettes can run with Vipers with 100 less horsepower.

If the next Camaro is geared right, doesn't weigh in like a pig, and has alot of torque available down low, a 5.3 even with 350 horses should be plenty quick.

Also, Cobra is Ford's Corvette. If the next Cobra (supposedly it's going to push nearly 500 horsepower) is as quick as the top Corvette, Camaro ISN'T going to outrun it.

However, expect the next top Camaro to be as quick as a base Corvette, or maybe a tick quicker.

Forget chasing the Cobra. Ain't gonna happen. :no:

I would like to see offered forced induction from the factory under warranty.

:)

Personally I think F/I will never happen. But what I think would be nice is the base v6, as you need to provide that to the market.

Then this 5.3L option you KNOW shouldnt be a 5.3L. If it's possible, use the 5.3L truck engine with atleast a higher rev cam(I'd ask for better heads too). And dont call it a 5.3L... 5.3L doesnt sound right... what's that in cid? 327! Now that'd be something to stir a few murmurs from below.

Then if you really want a 350, stick in a mildly de-tuned LS2, or something slightly below the vette in that regard.

That'd mean you'd still have the mass production cheaper v8 as well as the high end v8 for your "serious" enthusiasts.

Then If you wanted to make a collecters edition, I say drop in the Ls7, but for god's sake do something interesting. I say make 100 vehicles with a true Big Block engine, like perhaps the 496cid engine. If they are sharing the front end and mounting with other vehicles, and GM does offer mounting for the big blocks - it could be possible to do a low production special edition of some sort without being too unreasonable.

But then again, I think the standard vette engine should be the Ls7, and the "zo6" should get a big block. But that isnt about to happen. Then again, a big block with over 600hp should be easily enough to slam anything else on the market if it can be done for under $60k. Maybe an Enzo or an F1 would be able to keep up...

Originally posted by Geoff Chadwick
Personally I think F/I will never happen. But what I think would be nice is the base v6, as you need to provide that to the market.

Then this 5.3L option you KNOW shouldnt be a 5.3L. If it's possible, use the 5.3L truck engine with atleast a higher rev cam. And dont call it a 5.3L 5.3L doesnt sound right... what's that in cid? 327! Now that'd be something to stir a few murmurs from below.

The GM 5.3L is 325c.i.

Originally posted by Z28x
The GM 5.3L is 325c.i.

I know. And the ls1 isnt a 350. It's a 346. It annoys the daylights out of me. But that doesnt mean it cant happen with some different guts. Doubtful, I know. But isnt this a thread over what we'd like to see? Dish it out 2ci... Thats not much at all!

Simple, easy set up

3.9 V6 with or w/o DoD =250hp $20-24k
5.3 V8 with or w/o DoD= 335hp $24-27k
6.0 V8 w/o DoD= 400hp $28-32k

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
I remember for at least 3 years all we heard from Scott and others was that a mid level V8 was impossible from a cost perspective, even though we all nearly unanimously said it was necessary from a sales/market appeal standpoint.

I'm hoping we (this board) helped make a difference on that issue, not to mention a bunch of other 5th gen issues.

If that is the case, then god bless this board. I have probably been one of the most outspoken people on this matter when it used to come up frequently, and I am willing to put my $$ where my mouth is...I WILL BUY an '07-'08 Camaro base coupe so long as I can have t-tops, a V8 and a stick for around $25-26k in today's dollars.

I bought a Z28 because I wanted the 8, but quite frankly 285hp (300 or so the way I have it set up) is really as much as I need, if not more so. A 300hp base Camaro (RS mid-level edition maybe??? :D :D) would be a great head-to-head with a Stang GT, leaving the potential SS for the Mach 1 and the potential Z28 for the Cobra???

I still say the 4th gen's biggest fault was no base model V8. When I sold Birds I had people buying Formulas who really DID NOT WANT ONE, solely to get a V8...or they bought a Mustang GT for $4k less....grrr....$4k difference is $80 a month over 5 years, enough to lose A LOT of sales...

If Scott is reading this, I would like to place my order for a Sunset or Hugger Orange '07-'08 Camaro RS with graphite cloth, PW, PL, 6 speed, t-tops and nothing else...no leather, no traction control, no CD changers. I'd like to pay $26k in today's dollars too :)

The GP will be paid off October 2006 in time for the Camaro's 40th anniversary, gentelmen. And no, that is not a coincidence...the GP will make a great daily driver so I can start payments on my '07 RS

:bow: :bow:

keep it simple and affordable:

HF V6

6.0 LS2


Leave the window open for a 7.0L LS7 or whatever powered version.. but it'll be expensive.. depending on how much and how fast the future Cobra would be.

13.6L XV16 please and thank you. :)

Originally posted by Geoff Chadwick
I know. And the ls1 isnt a 350. It's a 346. It annoys the daylights out of me. But that doesnt mean it cant happen with some different guts. Doubtful, I know. But isnt this a thread over what we'd like to see? Dish it out 2ci... Thats not much at all!
well if they were 4ci off on the ls1 they can be 2ci off on the 5.3 :D

Originally posted by guionM
If the next Camaro is geared right, doesn't weigh in like a pig, and has alot of torque available down low, a 5.3 even with 350 horses should be plenty quick.
yes, is a 4.10 or even 3.73 option so much to ask for on the 6 speed?

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
I'm hoping we (this board) helped make a difference on that issue, not to mention a bunch of other 5th gen issues.
I honestly feel like I played a role in that decision, since I disagreed with gunion and never got a reply:D

Originally posted by Big Als Z
Simple, easy set up

3.9 V6 with or w/o DoD =250hp $20-24k
5.3 V8 with or w/o DoD= 335hp $24-27k
6.0 V8 w/o DoD= 400hp $28-32k


Right on, good ideas.

Then you have something for everyone.

The middle V8 is great for those who want a V8 but can't afford what the 6.0 Camaro would cost.

I think having a mid weight 300hp V8 or supercharged V6 would be very appealing to people who want power, which 300-320 is PLENTY for your average joe, and then you have 400hp for us.

Then the SS and Z28 split the top role, SS be more luxury, and Z28 being more race.

Originally posted by Geoff Chadwick
Personally I think F/I will never happen.

You sure. :D ;)

Not saying mass produced like every Cobra has a blower, but factory orderable custom options that you can add on and roll into the financing.

Originally posted by SMUJeremy
You sure. :D ;)

Not saying mass produced like every Cobra has a blower, but factory orderable custom options that you can add on and roll into the financing.

There has actually been some serious talk about this. The thinking goes...the young college grad can only afford, say, 20 grand for a base V6 Camaro. In two years he's making more money and he can afford to go down to his local Chevy dealer and purchase the GMPD developed supercharger kit for his 3.9.

The even lower bucks down guy...who buys a used V6, still gets to pay GM a couple of thousand buck for the kit too.

Originally posted by Z284ever
There has actually been some serious talk about this. The thinking goes...the young college grad can only afford, say, 20 grand for a base V6 Camaro. In two years he's making more money and he can afford to go down to his local Chevy dealer and purchase the GMPD developed supercharger kit for his 3.9.

The even lower bucks down guy...who buys a used V6, still gets to pay GM a couple of thousand buck for the kit too.

Yeah, that would rock.

Would you void your warranty by having the dealer slap an SC on your vehicle that was designed for NA use? I would see that as being the biggest hurdle.

-Jason

Originally posted by uluz28
Would you void your warranty by having the dealer slap an SC on your vehicle that was designed for NA use? I would see that as being the biggest hurdle.

-Jason

I think what was suggested by Scott in past threads was that a big advantage to this would be that the factory warranty WOULD remain in effect, assuming you had it dealer installed.

hehe....then that means the dealer installed option would be enough to cover one engine replacement ;)

The other advantage is that your supercharger could be rolled into your new car financing.

Originally posted by Z284ever
The other advantage is that your supercharger could be rolled into your new car financing.

And it could be "hidden", so to speak, from insurance companies if that matters....

Originally posted by Darth Xed
And it could be "hidden", so to speak, from insurance companies if that matters....


Exactly.

I think the engine options are pretty much clear now.

1) 3.9L pushrod, probably rated at sub-240hp
2) 6.0L Ls2, probably rated at 360-380hp with actual output probably closer to 400hp like the c6.

Both seem to be the obvious choices since the 3.9 replaces the 3.8, and the ls2 replaces the ls1.

Originally posted by Z284ever
There has actually been some serious talk about this. The thinking goes...the young college grad can only afford, say, 20 grand for a base V6 Camaro. In two years he's making more money and he can afford to go down to his local Chevy dealer and purchase the GMPD developed supercharger kit for his 3.9.

The even lower bucks down guy...who buys a used V6, still gets to pay GM a couple of thousand buck for the kit too.

That would be an awesome idea. Also having it rolled into your financing is also sweet. Then theoretically speaking, you could buy a from the factory blown LS2 Camaro if this idea was implemented.

Then, technically, GM would keep the Corvette guys happy with having the Camaro rated BELOW the Vette, yet keep the hardcore Camaro guys happy by letting them buy a factory modified car that could outrun Corvettes and top-level Stangs. I think I REALLY like this idea.........

Originally posted by guionM
What if there is only base and a performance version (the SS), & that 5.3 had the same performance as the current LS1 SS, but was geared to outrun the new Mustang GT?

What if the 2nd year of production, not only did a convertible come out, and a V8 option on the base Camaro, but also a 6.0 liter LS2 Z28?

:bow:

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0


Both seem to be the obvious choices since the 3.9 replaces the 3.8, and the ls2 replaces the ls1.

LS2 replaces LS1.

What replaces LS2................?

;)

Originally posted by Z284ever
LS2 replaces LS1.

What replaces LS2................?

;)

tehehehe...giggled like a school girl

Originally posted by guionM
Why?

With a 50 horse disadvantage, an LS1 already has a top speed advantage over the current Mustang Cobra of 5-10 mph.

Despite a supposed 50 horse disadvantage, the new Mustang apparently accelerates at least as quickly as LS1 F-bodies.

Z06 Corvettes can run with Vipers with 100 less horsepower.

If the next Camaro is geared right, doesn't weigh in like a pig, and has alot of torque available down low, a 5.3 even with 350 horses should be plenty quick.

Also, Cobra is Ford's Corvette. If the next Cobra (supposedly it's going to push nearly 500 horsepower) is as quick as the top Corvette, Camaro ISN'T going to outrun it.

However, expect the next top Camaro to be as quick as a base Corvette, or maybe a tick quicker.

Forget chasing the Cobra. Ain't gonna happen. :no:

I guess because I've seen too many LS1s hit high 13s and get stomped by 260hp GTs running mid 13s. No it wasn't driver. Cobras in my town run mid 12s. The LS1s that run 12s have heads and cam or supercharger mods.

And yes I realize some freak LS1s hit 12s off the showroom floor. But I've seen lots that are in the high 13s as well.

Camaro must continue its reputation as being the MUCH faster pony car. :D

Originally posted by Gripenfelter
I guess because I've seen too many LS1s hit high 13s and get stomped by 260hp GTs running mid 13s.

Uhh...yeah, it was either driver or traction.

Gripenfelter, must be something about Canada then...

Most LS1 cars I see run low 13s with a lid and cutout...maybe mid 13s stock but the 265hp 4.6 Mustangs never seem to run better than about 13.8 in these parts. I've seen more than one dead stock LS1 m6 car run 12.90s too.

Again, I've seen some duds too, but stock for stock I've NEVER seen a late model GT run anywhere close to an LS1 car unless you are comparing an A4 LS1 to a manual Mustang...then they're in the ballpark.

Mustang's had a gearing advantage for a long time though. Dont the automatic cars come with 3.55 rear gear? I don't know how their trans ratios are set up but on the surface there appears to be some room for improvement from the standard GM A4 choice of 3.23s. Granted that could limit top speed a little on automatic cars.....

Are we thinking 5 speed auto for the Camaro or are we destined to be stuck with the 4L60E until the end of time?

I heard that GM will skip over 5 and go right to the 6spd that was in the Velite. I belive Zeta was designed for the 6spd. They designated the 6spd trans in the Velite the 6L80E, which sounds like it will be able to handle a heavy load.

Well, here are the results from my track for the last Test and Tune...

2002 Mustang GT (air filter): 13.4@102?

1998 T/A (just K&N and catback): 13.8@102?

2002 T/A (Heads/Cam, headers, and catback): 12.7@112mph

2003 Cobra (CAI/exhaust): 12.4@113mph

Me: 12.11@116mph (I had issues with my tranny/limiter)

check that GT for spray. I have never seen a stock GT run any faster then high 13's.

I know all of the drivers. They don't have any hidden mods. :)

Something is seriously wrong with that h/c '02 TA if it is running 112 traps. A cam only WS6 around here runs 119mph. I have had NO problem disposing of a 99+ GT with my car off the bottle. It's not pretty at all past 60mph. I was simply stating that your statement that LS1's have problems with GT's is way off base

No you're right, a lot of LS1s will royally spank a Mustang GT. But some don't and some mustangs are spanking LS1s with little or no mods.

Thats why I was saying the next Camaro should have the LS2. The difference between the two cars should be like the 1994/95 Mustang GT vs the 93-97 Fbody. 15.5/15.1 vs 14.3/13.8. JMO. :)

whaaa ???

Base cars get 3.9 w/ optional 5.3.

SS and Z/28 get the LS2 or whatever the top motor of the day is, but not the LS7. That would be too good to be true for Camaro.

I say make the base car a nice ride, not an afterthought, build it for the majority of buyers. Then make the SS the over the top option king w/ the hot engine ala 4th gen, and the Z/28 the Z06 of Camaroland ala 1LE. I say again...the Z/28 I have envisioned would likely sell less than the total Z/28 production for '67...it would be a NICHE vehicle which would turn off the MAJORITY of buyers as being too rough, too raw, too focused on performance. Of course half the buyers are probably on this board :D :D

Look at the CTS example...

base CTS=base Camaro
CTS luxury sport(if it had an LS6)=SS
CTSv=Z/28

you dig?

Originally posted by CLEAN
I say again...the Z/28 I have envisioned would likely sell less than the total Z/28 production for '67...

CLEAN, I pretty much agree with your whole post....except for this statement.

Selling no more than 602 units is just a sliver of a niche. The Ford GT will have more volume than that.

I think production should generally be based on demand. Sure, this won't be the high volume model....but like the Z06, all those so inclined...should be able to get one.

Originally posted by Z284ever
LS2 replaces LS1.

What replaces LS2................?

;)

Am i missing something? :D :confused:

Originally posted by Z284ever
CLEAN, I pretty much agree with your whole post....except for this statement.

Selling no more than 602 units is just a sliver of a niche. The Ford GT will have more volume than that.

I think production should generally be based on demand. Sure, this won't be the high volume model....but like the Z06, all those so inclined...should be able to get one.

I wouldn't have it as a restricted option at all, I just figured that the one that I would build wouldn't have much appeal to the average joe. It would be very focused on performance, and if that meant it rode hard and the exhaust gave you a headache from the noise...oh well, get an SS :D .

Originally posted by CLEAN
I wouldn't have it as a restricted option at all, I just figured that the one that I would build wouldn't have much appeal to the average joe. It would be very focused on performance, and if that meant it rode hard and the exhaust gave you a headache from the noise...oh well, get an SS :D .

No sense making a Z/28 appeal to the average Joe. But I bet there are enough "sick Joe's".....like us....to sell 10 -15 thousand of 'em per year.

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Am i missing something? :D :confused:

All I am saying is that most people here assume the "Chevy coupe" will be powered by an LS2.

There is quite abit of "smallblock" developement going on, as we speak. New bore/stroke combos, for example. Unfortunately, Camaro is not right around the corner. It would be reasonable to expect that some of these developments would find there way into the next Camaro. And with what's in the pipeline from Ford and DCX....Camaro will need to be competitive.

Getting back to the LS2, there will probably be several versions of the 6.0 called "LS2". Think about the LT1 for a second. There were different versions for B-car, F-car and Y-car. They all had different blocks, (2 bolt main vs 4 bolt main), different heads, different cams, different compression ratios, different exhausts, different air intakes, different horsepower ratings.....yet all 3 versions were marketed as "LT1".

It'd be nice to know that there were 10-15k sick joes out there! The way GTO sales are going...I wonder:confused:

I am all for a high performance "hardcore Z/28) but not too crazy.

Just on the same level as the Corvette Z06 is the the normal Corvette.

Not like the 2000 Cobra R--no radio, no sound deadning, no back seat ect. That car was a race car with signal lights!

Lets not get carried away here and make it unbreable to drive on the street.


BTW---the only reason the 04 CObra does only 155mph (which may be a tick slower then an LS1 Camaro) is the fact it has a speed limiter.

Bad areodynamics would send it airborne at some point (170mph?) thats why the 00 Cobra R had that huge wing to add some downforce and keep the car stable.

Originally posted by CLEAN
It'd be nice to know that there were 10-15k sick joes out there! The way GTO sales are going...I wonder:confused:

That's because the GTO has a poor "price/sick ratio.";)

Personally I would like to see a Base v6, a S/C v6(use the rwd engine from Holden) for the Rs platform, and then an LS2 for the SS and Z platform.

Yeah, Z/28 in line w/ the Z06....brakes, wheels/tires, suspension, ommission of certain heavy and/or expensive options..exhaust, specific gearing. Not a Cobra R. But it would have all of the standard stuff, PL, PW, cruise, A/C,and all that.

Look at the 2002 ZL1's...thats what I'm thinkin a Z should be, minus the expensive engines. Just give it the same engine as the SS, and let it ride on its own particular character. Separate but equal to SS.

I read each and every post on this thread that was on topic (skipping over the crap that was off topic, IE mustang trap speeds) and have come out of this experience VERY excited. I'm 18, and by the time '07, '08 rolls around, I will be graduating from school with a BA in CDD. I'm going to wait another year after the first year the camaro comes out and then I'm going to make my move. And here's what I've come up with from reading everything.

Camaro:
3.9L V6 @ 220 HP+
Options include Power everything.

Camaro RS:
5.3L LS4 @ 360 HP+
Options include Power Everything + Gears + 6 speed + Leather etc.

Camaro SS:
Cammed LS4 @ 390+ HP
Options include the same as the RS plus maybe wheels and some other minor things.

Camaro Z/28:
6.0L LS7 @ ~500 HP
Race Car with Power Everything. Only around 1-200 made.

Seems like an awesome line up to me. Sign me up, I'll take an SS please.