Gm's Reason of Discounting the "Camaro"

this is from what i read in the Fall issue of the Camaro Permorance 2002, (still on newstands till december) anyways.. close to the last page.. it has a little article about the reason gm stoped making the camaro.. i laughed when i read it.. GM KILLED THE CAMARO!!!!!!!!! INSURANCE COMPAINES.. AND the GAYSTANG!! *gaystangs = 4.6 liter stangs . in the artilce it says that GM didn't want to lower the price cause of the younger kids (like me) that would want a f-body, which made it more of a harder car to get... (limiting there sales of the f-body). The insurance compaines on purposly put camaros on expensive insurance rates to scare the younger 1st time buyers.. (there we go agian.. thats just ignorant) the mustang with the same amount of options was dromatically more lower then the camaro.. same year .. differ motor.. still v8's though. Ford was smart in this case.. they helped kids roll of the lot with stangs.. and kept stangs at a much lower price then these late model f-body's. Now i think there is some bull**** here. I love the F-body... y can't insurance peeps make it so its affordable for younger adults.. and y can't gm make camaro a smaller motor.. like the 305 for the younger adults that can't afford the damn car, has GM gone stupid... i think so.. I know tons of teens that would love to have a camaro but go to stangs cause of the **** they go threw for paying for them.. i'm one of the luckier ones that found a cheap 4th gen camaro.

I truely hope you don't believe half of that for a second...and also...they are not offering a 305, cause the LS1/T1 is one of the key features or heart of the Z28's......They aren't made to be cheap

They did make a smaller motor for all those too young to be able to spell and use proper grammar. It's called a V6. They enjoy lower insurance rates too. And for what it's worth, the Z28 and Trans Am were a huge bargain! They have performance close to that of a Corvette and a price tag close to that of a Honda Accord. Here comes my opinion.

GM doomed the F-Body by not advertising them. Some people didn't even know they could still buy a new Z28. Also, there were no new styling changes since 1992 except for a headlight change in 1997. That's 10 years with no major change. Mustangs got 2 new body styles in that time frame. Buyers lost interest. Sales dropped. So GM decided to focus on truck and SUV sales. The rest is history. We'll see where the future takes us.

Yeah, and G.M. may as well "hang it up" when the vette comes out on a FWD platform...:think:
:D

Originally posted by CAJUN-Z
Yeah, and G.M. may as well "hang it up" when the vette comes out on a FWD platform...:think:
:D
Uh...I'll pretend you didn't say that...

:think:

This is only my opinion, and I do support union workers, but
I don't think it is a coincidence that production stopped
the same time the CAW contract expired.:confused:

There are a lot of reasons the for the f-bodies demise. One of the main factors was that the f-body would no longer hold up in federal safety standards and that several things would have to change in order for the new regulations to be met. In that case GM would have had to totally redesign the f-bod (spending hundreds of millions on R&D) and with the lower sales because of lack of advertising that just wouldn't add up. Insurance rates were high yes, but for that kind of performance it was worth it.

Personally, I think that the "image" of the f-bodies vs. the Mustang is part of what killed the car's sales.

When the average person thinks of a Mustang, they think of an all-American icon of muscle car history. When they think of a Camaro or Trans Am, most people imagine guido boy-racer, or mullet-donned white trash.

*sigh* :(

I have thought about it for a long time and listened to reasons for years know. This decision was not just made in the last year ( or even two), the camaro has been on the choping block for at least the past 4 years. There is only one reason GM discontinued the camaro - SALES!!!! Look at the official sales figures. The Mustang has outsold the Camaro by like ten times (OK maybe not that many but something close to that. I mean it is a HUUUUUGGGE amount) So then the question is WHY. Well I've got two ideas (and I think its most of the first with a little of the second).

1. The Mustang is an "icon" for lack of a better word. It was the first one out and its what laypeople (i.e. the common "off the street" people who aren't really car people) think about when they hear "muscle car" or even "sports car". People think of that 65 mustang that has been burned into the back of everbodies brain since they were a kid. And they carried that name/image forward to todays mustang. So for what I will call the "uneducated mass" (as far as cars go) when they go to buy their first "COOL" car they think of the mustang. ASK ANY TEENAGE GIRL (AND A LOT OF THE BOYS) WHAT THEY WANT FOR A FIRST CAR AND THEY SAY "I WANT A MUSTANG". Ask them why and they'll tell you "THEY ARE SO COOL" and thats about all they know. But look around today IMAGE SELLS and that is what is selling here. All of the numbers and facts point to the F-Body but people are looking at the Mustang.

2. Now my sencond theory that goes with the first. I here people say GM didn't market the car. I think when the 4TH Gen came out in 93, and for the next couple of years, they did market the car (as much as Ford marketed the mustang anyway). I think we all remeber the adds about 275 horsepower, yadda yadda yadda and a cup holder big enough for a slurpie and the one about the camaro and rock and rool and america. Anyway, as sales slipped or never picked up, they did dump the advertising and the last few years it was almost nill. So that did'nt help.

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by TireSmoke
Personally, I think that the "image" of the f-bodies vs. the Mustang is part of what killed the car's sales.

When the average person thinks of a Mustang, they think of an all-American icon of muscle car history. When they think of a Camaro or Trans Am, most people imagine guido boy-racer, or mullet-donned white trash.

*sigh* :(

You beat me to it. I posted mine and then saw yours so obviously i'm not the only one that feels that way. And the one about the Guido or Mullet guy I think is true as well, just didn't want anybody to think I thought that. But that is a common misperception.

GM, like most other manufacturers, is so caught up in the SUV craze that it left the f-body to die. Chevrolet sees itself as a truck manufacturer first, and a passenger car manufacturer second.

When is the last time you saw any sort of television advertisement for the camaro. I can't remember seeing one since the mid 90s when the 4th Gen LT1 powered camaro was new. Even the late "0% financing" commercials that have run in the past year: They mange to show just about every other car and truck GM makes except the F-body. In fact, the only time I have seen a camaro in commercial recently was for a rental car company. They show a late model red convertable V-6. I know most of you have seen it, especially if you watch football.

Another reason mentioned, is the price. I was also looking at a Mustang GT in 1999 when I bought my Z. If it wasn't for the neck-snapping power and the t-top option, I would have bought the mustang. The mustang was almost $4,000 cheaper and Ford was offering a 4.9% financing for new college grads. Chevy basically said "f*** you", "you will take 7.9% and like it."

GM didn't sell the F-Body because it didn't want to sell the F-Body.

If the GM company philosophy doesn't change, this will be the last GM car that I own. I have no problem driving a car with a blue oval on it, especially if I know that company is still pasionate about its sports cars.

Originally posted by ReallZ28

GM didn't sell the F-Body because it didn't want to sell the F-Body.

If the GM company philosophy doesn't change, this will be the last GM car that I own. I have no problem driving a car with a blue oval on it, especially if I know that company is still pasionate about its sports cars.

i agree 100%. when your product is better than the competitions in every respect and your getting outsold........ the blame can only be placed in one area.

for those of you who think that camaros were marketed enough but it didn't help. you sell a product by ramming it down peoples throats. gm didn't do that. the people of this country will buy what you tell them to buy. gm didn't tell people to buy the camaro. so noone bought it. simple as that. gm failed the camaro. not the other way around.

i seriously doubt i will ever own another gm product :(.

I read an article that stated the Camaro and Firebird rated the highest in the number of fatal accidents for several years. Actually the Mustang was not far behind. I forget where I found it but something like "accident ratings" or whatever. I feel sure that is also why insurance is higher also. It also supposedly would cost too much to redesign the whole car to make it safer. I wonder if they considered high speed and driver error were the main causes for fatalities.

Price? Mustangs cost less?

Ok, I'll be honest and tell you that I never priced a GT, but when I bought my '01 Z28, I paid $23,000 ... FULLY LOADED and T-Tops.

Now, tell me where I can buy a GT for that price. Oh, and it has to be a drop top since mine was open air.

Guys ... it's not complicated ... it's simply ROI ... Return On Investment.

GM and thier investers could care less about the F-bod, Mustang sales, the Corvette or SUV ... nor should they. GM has a ton of cash to invest ... the management of GM is expected to maximize the return on that investment ... the F-bod, in it's present incarnation, couldn't compete with other investment opportunities ... simple!

mustang GTs are only like $22k new, they are a lot cheaper, but then again your're giving up, 60 hp, an extra gear on the M6, t-tops and chrome wheels. I really think if in the late 90's GM would have kept their 3.8L competitive with other v6 cars as far as power, made the interior a little nicer and advertised, then they would have done a lot better. If they would have run ads about the Ls1 and shown what a good engine it really was and not underated it like they did, make the car sit a little lower, maybe added some options that would have appealed to the luxury crowd, sqeezed a little more room in the back, they would have kicked butt. it definitly had all the tools to complete with the mustang and maxima, and bmw's, everything and beat them all.

Well, Im new to the camaro, as I just bought my 1999 Z28 M6 about 3 months ago, but Ive got to say I love it! I used to work for a dealership washing cars and its the best new sports car that Ive drove except the viper and maybe the corvette, but those arent really common man cars. All of your reasons for the demise of the camaro sound good, heres another reason IMO, the look, I like the look but I dont love it, they should have kept it looking like the first gens a little more, now they just screamed muscle. I think the fourth gens are a little to sleek.

But as for you guys saying youll never drive a gm again Ive got one question for. Have you ever drove a Ford?????? :confused:
God their horrible the cars the trucks everything. What are you thinking?

Originally posted by ReallZ28
GM, like most other manufacturers, is so caught up in the SUV craze that it left the f-body to die. Chevrolet sees itself as a truck manufacturer first, and a passenger car manufacturer second.


They are pushing SUV and trucks as that is what Americans want to buy. ever since the FWD vehicles started to take over in the early eighties people have been buying trucks as Americans like big RWD vehicles plain and simple. The average pasenger vehicle on the road today is about 500 pounds heavier than the average passenger vehicle on the road in 1972.

Originally posted by ReallZ28

If the GM company philosophy doesn't change, this will be the last GM car that I own. I have no problem driving a car with a blue oval on it, especially if I know that company is still pasionate about its sports cars.

Ditto for me here. I have test drove the mid size SUVs and the Durango gets my vote. I think GM still makes nice stuff but it is not as distinct as it used to be and i don't think you are getting what you pay for anymore.

I understand why they stoppd the F BOD it's easy $$$$$ I am not happy about it but I guess if it were my company I would do the same. I still admire GM for the late seventees when all Ford had was the ugly ass Mustang II, and Dodge was belly up, GM had the Camaros, Firebirds, Grand prix, Cutlas, and of course the Vette. They all weren't that fast but they gave the public at that time what they wanted and the public still wanted RWD heavier cars.

Kids are the peeps that look in to the cars... now imagine if ur 17.. and ur looking for ur first car.. and it is pretty compliacted going in to a GM Car dealer, and they say "i don't think you should get this car, cause of..." thats what they said to me, and i said i don't give a rats ass if the insurance is threw the roof, and if i have to work 5 hard years to pay this damn car off. Most kids would be like screw that, and go off to the ford dealer, which were trying to convince kids to buy the mustang. Now if GM would of done that... it would all be peaches in cream.. i'm sure GM wanted to countine the F-body, its a American Tradion, like the corvette, also i haven't seen a ad about camaros, all i see is some gay guy talking about, "if i had my choice, I would pick a red converible mustang, with a throttle body v8 blah blah" i think that would of helped out cars sales if GM would promote the f-body.

I didn't read this thread, but I do like your name. :D ;) :cool:

:p

i can't tell you how many people are buying those crap v6 mustangs around here, but it obviously played a role in the Camaros demise.
Saying that the camaro should have been a 305 so that kids could afford them is terrible. I personally think the 350 was to small, but for the price, and performance what could you want? People don't buy v6 mustangs for the speed or the price, its just cause they think they look cool. Camaros to me were always the better car.
Now Gm, which is kinda messed up right now, obviously didn't advertise the camaro. I can't remember ever seeing an ad for one on tv. 2nd they would rather put crappy suvs on the road today. While Ford runs off making the mustang 40k+ with a supercharger. Chevy just sits around and said that an affordable muscle car isn't worth it. They are just doing it to save money now, and not reap the benifits later. So now when I acctually have the money I wil never have a new camaro. Just my 1969, which I got cause Camaros were always cool even from teh start. Its just sad that chevy would end a legacy, of some of the coolest cars ever.

Camaros won the SSCA championship for 2 years in a row, with the 68's and 69's. They were on top of their game going into the 1970's. And even in the 80's and 90's they were still cool cars. Personally I don't think chevy is saving money doing this. Only destroying another name, and making more people leave their company...

I never could figure out why anybody would buy one of the 3.8 stangs. The car lost intake gaskets before warranty, overheats and blows head gaskets. Complete P.O.S. The 3.8 buick F-car W/perf axle runs good don't die. I think ford makes more $ on parts to keep the P.O.S. runing that the actual sale of the car.

The 4.6 gt dont run mutch better My 3.2 manual kicks the **** out of a unmolested stang. F***ing sad.

One day with the help of HOLDEN I will probably have a rear wheel drive G.M. vehicle with the LS-1. Until then I will have to keep ruining the day for many ford fans driving the underpowered mustang.


JohnM

when i said it would be nice to have a 305 in a camaro for kids.. i meant for like the lower package.. like call it the RS... the RS was orignally a 304 i belive.. or some **** like that... and i agree that a 350 was too small, the Z28 should carry the 350, and the SS should carry a 396(a overhauld ls1 motor)/427(some crate motor) option.. that would be sweet, something that can make the Crapstang Cobra look like a piece of shiz. I love the camaro, i owned 2, and i'm 17, a 305 tpi Camaro IROC-Z and a 346 LS1 98 Camaro, i didn't care much about the 305, but it was at the right price for a first car for me. When i got the 346 z28 i felt so much power out of it, but if they would of had a f-body that had the 305 i think some peeps would of bought it, just becuase it ain't too expensive, and ain't too slow... i felt some power out of that ole 305, that biatch can go for 10 mintues doing a nice burn out, thats what i love most about my ole car.

Wanna know who killed the Camaro? Chevrolet Killed it. Although I wouldn't say it was quite premeditated murder, more like second decree criminally negligent homicide.

I had a '94 Z28 that was the best car I've ever owned. Although apparently slower in the 1/4 mile the car felt faster on the street due to the huge amounts of torque it had. None of this "step on the gas and turn over the egg timer 'till 4500 RPM rolls around nonesense. My 2000 LS1 (A4) is the biggest dissapointment I have ever purchased. Off the line, there are so many sport sedans out there that can wipe me up from 0-50 MPH, plus any long legged run toward 100+ MPH needs to be done hoping that I will not have to use the useless brakes that the car has. My '94 would clamp down hard and stop without a problem from 130 MPH. I am on my "god only knows what number set of brakes" and I don't think I have ever driven the car in it's 36,000 miles without the rotors being warped.

Hmm...... Handles like a Baby Carriage and Stops like a Snow Sled, must be a New Z28...............

Mine is going very soon.................. Gunna head over to the Honda Dealer, and see if I can get me one of them new S2000's. Now thats a sports car!!!

Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv
They did make a smaller motor for all those too young to be able to spell and use proper grammar. It's called a V6.

Hey, easy there, not everyone who owns a V6 has bad grammar, and some of us can even spell.

Originally posted by RacerChuck
Wanna know who killed the Camaro? Chevrolet Killed it. Although I wouldn't say it was quite premeditated murder, more like second decree criminally negligent homicide.

:confused:

Originally posted by RacerChuck
I had a '94 Z28 that was the best car I've ever owned. Although apparently slower in the 1/4 mile the car felt faster on the street due to the huge amounts of torque it had.
I can see that. A lot of people like the torque of the LT1


Originally posted by RacerChuck None of this "step on the gas and turn over the egg timer 'till 4500 RPM rolls around nonesense. My 2000 LS1 (A4) is the biggest dissapointment I have ever purchased. [/B]

:confused:

Originally posted by RacerChuck Off the line, there are so many sport sedans out there that can wipe me up from 0-50 MPH, [/B]

:rolleyes:
Damn, I new everybody lied to me when they said my SS had more torque than the mustang/protege/civic or (insert just about any car you want that a normal person could touch here). Shoulda bought the miata, theres a torque monster...shucks. :rolleyes: You CANNOT be serious

Originally posted by RacerChuck
plus any long legged run toward 100+ MPH needs to be done hoping that I will not have to use the useless brakes that the car has. My '94 would clamp down hard and stop without a problem from 130 MPH. I am on my "god only knows what number set of brakes" and I don't think I have ever driven the car in it's 36,000 miles without the rotors being warped.

:rolleyes: Iknow some f-bodies have rotor warping problems but come on the brakes are pretty damn good.

Originally posted by RacerChuck
Hmm...... Handles like a Baby Carriage and Stops like a Snow Sled, must be a New Z28...............


And now for the dumbest, most uneducated, worthless statement in the post (just when you thought it couldn't get any worse)....
Originally posted by RacerChuck
Mine is going very soon.................. Gunna head over to the Honda Dealer, and see if I can get me one of them new S2000's. Now thats a sports car!!!

RIIIIIGHHHHHHHTTTTTT!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
You claim you want power that doesn't take long to come on? Boy do you not know cars. Now I like all cars(small ones, big ones, trucks, etc) and the s2000 is awesome. 240 hp out of a 2.0L engine and a 9,000 RPM redline. Thats awesome. But if you knew anything about them you would know that you have to beat the dog piss out of them to get them to perform. I would actually like one, but if you had ever driven one or at the minimum read an article about one you would know that from idle to about 4500 RPMs (or more) the car is not all that spirited in acceleration. Now if you are wanting a SPORTS car (like the S2000 or Miata...one thats light and agile) then thats fine but don't knock the F-body for not being what it isn't supposed to be.

Buy a clue!!! Performance (or lack of) didn't kill the f-body. Other reasons might be debateable but not lack of performance. Really!!!!!

The demise of the Camaro was sad,

GM killed the car with lack of marketing it's like they didn't care about it. Now the bang for the buck car is gone, and all you can buy for that real American power is the Corvette. Which is not in a normal joe blow's budget. Ford although I think the mustang is a disgrace in the respect that the V6 isn't very powerful. When I had my 3.8L V6 ('97) it would always kill it's Mustang counter parts. As for the Mustang GT's 4.6L was a waste of time 260 HP and they call it a GT? For a V8 that just sucks in modern times. When the LT1 was new that was badass but this is the 21st century and people expect more. I go to college and I personally enjoy stomping the crap out of Mustang GT's either from a dead stop or on the freeway (College kids always seem ready to race here heh ). I hate how the whole market is about trucks. Ford as many people have pointed out are a pretty much a joke when it comes to quality control. Everyone I know who has owned a ford product has had somthing terrible go wrong with it within the first year. I just wish GM had engaged in a better marketing program. I wanted to puke when I see the CEO of Ford on TV talking about how great the all american mustang is oh PLEASE.

I really hope they bring this car back, hopefully the public will demand low cost power once again. For right now it looks like the Camaro's replacement, the silverado SS (yuck) is all that many will have before the Corvette. The next car I buy will be a Z06 I love my Z28 and I would not step down to some ford POS, a truck, or some rice burner (are they better than Ford tough question).

Well thats my rant
:bow: