Honda Turbo - Is he lieing?

This is a post from some guy who claims to own a shop on another forum. Now my understanding of PSI is that 6PSI is 6PSI regardless of the turbo size. As in a big turbo will push the same amount of air flow as a small turbo if they are both using 6PSI?
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.

I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC" :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."

Where did you find the post? link please. :)

Also what is the name of the shop he owns?

Originally posted by Z28WannaB
This is a post from some guy who claims to own a shop on another forum. Now my understanding of PSI is that 6PSI is 6PSI regardless of the turbo size. As in a big turbo will push the same amount of air flow as a small turbo if they are both using 6PSI?
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.

I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC" :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."

No, 6psi from a T04b and 6psi from a T91 are 2 totally different lbs/min. Efficieny is the key, volume and density is the name of the game.

Jose

This was on another tuner website, its for my local area. Basically they were saying that LT1s were a crappy platform and that my money could have been better spent on a 1991 integra. :rolleyes:

I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?

They made references to HP/Liter ratio, and he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot, and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi, and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine. Anyways I called him out on pretty much everything except this last part because I wasn't entirely sure.

- Z28WannaB

Originally posted by Z28WannaB
This was on another tuner website, its for my local area. Basically they were saying that LT1s were a crappy platform and that my money could have been better spent on a 1991 integra. :rolleyes:

I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?

- Z28WannaB



If you know what you are doing you can get a Honda to go really fast. One of my friends is going 9.8's @ 152 mph with his CRX and has spent less than 20k in the car. In my eyes that is extremely impressive.

Everyone will have their preferences on a car but one it comes down to it most imports are slow generally slow and expensive to make go fast if you do not know what you are doing. :) Plus you can add the fact they sound like popcorn machines. :D

They made references to HP/Liter ratio, and he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot...

A GSX All-Wheel-Drive Eclipse with a big turbo, clutch, and sticky tires has a tough time pulling that. BS. Not to mention shocks are more important in launch then springs.

...and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi.

BS. Even flywheel. Assuming he had a 200hp iVTEC (which I doubt he does) that'd be 20hp/psi of boost. Even a 6L engine built for boost sees that much...

...and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine.

I'll pay money to watch that happen. No way the stock block can take it more then a few moments - and at 20hp/psi - he was thusly making 640hp on a stock 1.8L block. That's the biggest BS of all. Not to mention there's no way the stock flywheel, tranny, clutch, and joints could hold that much power. NO WAY.

Lt1's are a bad platform? Anyone with their heads out of their asses in the import world knows the #1 cheap go-fast cars are DSMs. 90-93 GSX's for $2000, then $1500 in mods and you can pull high 12's. Another $2000 and you're in the 11s. It's getting into the 10's that means $7000 in engine, tranny, etc. And then you break axles a lot on those launches. Integras are one of the worst buys for cost:speed. You'd be better getting a CRX.

And I'll have $12,000 in mods including chrome wheels and tires (bling bling!) and I'm looking to run into the 10's.

Where's he located? This guy needs to have some boosted v8's roll by...

Oh - and "technology of Vtec?"

Z06 Corvette---- Honda S2000
5.7L v8------------2L I4
3118lb-------------2809lb
405hp@6000-----240hp@8300
400tq@4800------153tq@7500
19mpg city---------20mpg city
28mpg hwy--------26mph hwy

So this technology lets them make an engine with 1/3 the displacement produce:

60% of the HP (not bad!)
38% of the tq (ouch!)
90% of the weight (piggy little s2000!)
5% more city mpg
9% less hwy mpg!

So with a lightweight high-tech engine (honda's best!), power or not, it gets on average WORSE fuel economy (1city:2hwy) with 1/3 of the engine? If you ask me that stinks! That's horrible!

Using a smaller engine to make less power and worse fuel economy. Sounds like a great idea to me. :rolleyes: Also why is it that the Honda Pro Class Drag cars all ditch the VTEC equipment? Because it's bad for speed once you mod! If the pros ditch it, maybe it's not so good... :rolleyes:

This guy sounds like a BS ricer galore. And this is his shop? :shock:

Originally posted by Z28WannaB
he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot

He'd probably crap his pants if he knew what a 1.6 felt like. A 318hp Honda would need to be hit by a dump truck pulling a 1.5 short time to hit that time.

400tq@4800------153tq@7500

Let's not forget this either...look where peak torque is. Find out what his torque is. HP is just a number the dyno queens like to throw around, torque is where you make your money.

They say that vtec is the newest and best all the time like a broken record (man, where do these guys get "programed" at).
I guess thay heven't see the new ford 3 valve engine with eletronicly varible exhaust valve timing, it's light years ahead of machinacly oil pressure controaled cam lobe switching.
There are varible intake runner length intake manifolds, those are kind of cool, the new hemi and a few others have it.
The GM 427 LS7, enough said.
The I-6 balzer engine has varible exhaust valve timing also, it got rid of the EGR.
I love to say it, but the vtec is old.
I here that old vtec core blocks (b-serries)are selling like there made of gold or some thing if the junk dealer knows what he has he can get more for a B serries block than a running BBC some times.
New fad: waste the most money for the least power possible.
Every time a hear a honda put a rod through the block I get a little happier.
some one post that corvet vs. s2000 over on one of there boards and see if any of them have any thing intellgent to say about it.
That is in writing to me proof why the push rod vett engine is better than the OHC lawn mower engine in the honda car.
What gets more chicks honda or vett? ;)
Why one turbos make more power at 6psi than the other.
Well the turbine side has a lot to do with it for one, a larger turbine makes less of a restriction higher up in the rpm scale.
Compressor has a lot to do with it also you chang the trim and compressor dia. to some thing better suited to your appication you make more power.
If you have a turbo on your car and put a nother one on your car and it makes more power you found a better matched turbo for your setup.
Stupid ricers say "this turbo flows way more air into my car at 6psi than that last turbo did @ 6psi" because they don't know how to mach a turbo to there car first of all or they wouldn't have to up grade the turbo with no other mods being done in the mean time.
Turms like engine VE, trim, a/r, compresser map mean nothing to most of them. If that guy ran a turbo shop he could school you in how to match a turbo to any piston driven car.
Not, "we like to put T4/T3 turbos in our cars", "that's an compressor map", "puting a turbo on a V8 is totaly different than putting one on a honda" you hear that from the people that know every thing about putting turbos on imports, " buick-grand-national?!?" pre 90's turbo is un known to most of them.

Back to the main question. . .

He is partly right about 6 psi = 6 psi regardless of the source.

The density of the air in the intake manifold is the bottom line with FI power production.

If a tiny turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F, and a huge turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F on the same engine, they will make the same power.

However. . . sometimes a smaller turbo can't supply the requested amount of boost. A stock MR2 turbo cranked up to 18 psi will lose boost on top-end because the turbo can't keep up.

Also. . . larger turbos are generally more efficient at the higher boost/flow ranges. This means they will produce cooler boost, which will make more power in the end.

But. . . some Civic's might run 9's, but this will definitely happen:

http://www.teamnabr.com/videos/civicreality.wmv

Mike

We have a guy around here with an RSX and he is running just over 20psi. He has upgraded pistons and rods. He has cut some high 1.6s but is still spinning. Times are high 11s @ 122ish. He was at the track a couple of weeks ago and raced a Neon. He got the jump on him but after the 1/8 the Neon came by a pulled off hard. Ran an 11.8 @ 128. That is pretty respectable for a fwd. That wasn't even the RT. Some marine built up a slow Neon.

This is the same never ending story...

HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...

I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?

Originally posted by The Highlander
This is the same never ending story...

HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...

I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?

You know, a turbo Integra running 60 or 70 PSI will probably dust you. :irk:

Originally posted by The Highlander
This is the same never ending story...

HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...

I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?

It really depends on everything else that is done to the Integra. Yeah you have a great setup on paper but until you put numbers down my money is on the Honda, lol. :D j/k

You know, 3 years ago on this board, I would have expected some knowledgeable posts regarding imports. It seems that as the price of an f-body decreases, so does the average IQ of the owners, if you look at the posts here. It appears that Slim and IDOXLR8 are the only ones that have a clue when it comes to import potential.

It might not be your cup of tea, but imports can be fast too. Are the majority of them? No, but then again, neither are the MAJORITY of LT1 camaros. I know more than a few LT1s running mid 15s stock. Not every camaro runs 14.2s stock. I know people with N/A stock motor CRXs running better than 15s.

I am an AUTO enthusiast, not simply a camaro enthusiast. If some of you guys would open your eyes to what is possible, and what HAS been done, you might be impressed. Plus, the old saying goes, keep your friends close, your enemys closer. That could reference any kind of other vehicle, in knowing what is possible for them to do.

The local street racing domestic crowd around here is FINALLY learning what imports can do. There are a LOT of mid - low 10 second mustangs and camaros around here, and they will win most of the time, and that is due to traction. Duh, everyone knows rearwheel drive is better than front for drag racing. They have finally learned not to race from a roll, or they get their @ss handed to them, BADLY. An integra with 400 WHP from a roll is FREAKIN INSANE. You'd better roll out with a pretty stout turbo V-8 making over 600 rwhp to stay with it.

Anywho, this is all pointless rambling to this crowd, it seems. If I can give any last advice, it would be to put down the Car Craft, cut the mullet, and go find some import owners that KNOW what their doing. They ARE out there. You MIGHT learn something.

You know... i beg to disagree....

with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...

The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...

There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...

You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???

There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...

Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...

The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.

The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.

THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.

Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...

One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...

If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.

Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...

As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.

I hope my comments did not bring up this arguement. :) You pointed out some good things. Like I said my friend has less than 20K invested in his car and is going 9.8's @152mph. I can not say that about many LT1 cars. Yeah his car is a light and yes he runs race gas. He can run pump gas in his car and drive it on the streets if he wants to. That is the great thing about turbos.


BTW I am an LT1 guy at heart so don't take my post as being anti- LT1's. :)


Originally posted by The Highlander
You know... i beg to disagree....

with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...

The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...

There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...

You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???

There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...

Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...

The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.

The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.

THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.

Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...

One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...

If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.

Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...

As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.

it wasn't your comments....

20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...

The reality is that if you mod a v8 to the same extent as that one you will get even more power..

The reality is that when that car hits the street its not a 9s@150mph machine... most probably a 12s car....

Yeah, once you back the boost down and run normal gas in it instead of rocket fuel, it's as fast as a bolt on LS1 car.

Did I mention that Hondas look funny doing a FWD burnout? :p

where's this being debated at? Your original post mentioned it was a local forum and then you mentioned Portland. Are you talking Portland, Oregon? If so I might know these tuners you speak of

20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...

Not really, especially for a car that isn't hooking.

Also, the fact that these cars are fast from a roll isn't a lie. I have seen a lot of races that are lost because of the way the start is. It happened a couple of weeks ago. This low 11 second Nova got his ass handed to him by a 240 sx with. With both on slicks at the track and a tree, the Nova might have won, but up top the 240 outpowered him on the street. True, the 240 is rwd too, but you get the point. I see a lot of guys sit these fwds out in front and give them the break. Well all the time they spent catching up, the fwds are finally hooking by the time the car behind them catches them, and the fwd walk away with a better power-weight ratio.

Just giving examples, not saying that is how it is always.

Btw, the Rsx I mentioned earlier has 344 at the wheels. And running traps at about 122.

The reality is that on a roll and up to 150mph... the bigger engine will most likely win... I race from a roll and i have yet to loose 1!

Now im coming with 100more rwhp... I know that there is someone faster than you... and some day i will get my a$$ handed.. but... i dont think it will be against a 4 cylinder IN STREET Conditions...

Im sure there are a one or 2 9s civics that would kill me on the street.. but when we both look at the interiors of the cars and the type of fuel being used and that I have A/C Stereo Power everything... then what is the better option?

Highlander, what are some times you think you will run? Not eventually, but pretty soon after you get it right?

my goal is 9.99@140mph with pump gas, full weight full everything.

but that is a "reference" time as i am not planning to take it to track...

but i should be "able" to run those times...

when i had 607 i raced agains some 10sec cars and i rolled by w/o much difficulty.

So maybe with a good set of slicks I was probably running 135-136mph and low 10s.. 10.4x 10.3x maybe... so i expect with 100rwhp more a gain of .4 and 5mph or so...

maybe i'll get there maybe i dont...

but when you see the size supercharger im putting in and what would equate in turbo manners i dont think a small 2L engine will spool that thing w/o the help of some n2o to boot....

I bet that counting the cars on this board i should be #20!! jajajajajaja

Highlander, I understand where you are coming from, but I'm a bit confused. You seem to think that there is no way a honda/import can be in the 9s for 20K or less. Curious, how much do you have invested in your setup? I would guess WELL over 20K. Probably closer to 40K with the bottom end/machining blower, fuel system, etc. Also, why won't the car go to the track? 607 is simply a number and you could spin your way to a 14.5 @ 140. What good is that? Thats what imports do.

Back to the money. I am going to presume that you chose your car for price/performance, since that is what you alluded to in your previous post. If that is the case, why not go Fox body stang. They have a LOT better bang/buck performance. I personally know over 5 people that have full weight cars in 9s, be it blower/nitrous or motor. And those are the people that WILL say what their car runs. I know a guy running a full weight stang, with heads, stock cam, intake, and a dry kit running 9.7s @ 139. I know of 2 local street cars in the 8s. Yup, 8s. Again, why did you choose the F-body?

1st.. i dont care if i do 19@10000MPH... i really dont...

because when I step down that track... i'll be a 100000mph car period...

I have invested in my setup around 19k-22k not more...

WHy didn't i get a fox body? because the camaro was a better chassis and it was an all around better car although it was heavier... I liked the idea that the car came already with a T56 and I didn't have to buy it as an upgrade... I liked the idea that bigger engines where possible.

There are "cheaper" alternatives.. the 87-93 mustang is a better thing for the track as its a lot lighter and they have a much more robust aftermarket than we do... but i wanted a true street car that could handle the power and my heavy foot. I just didn't feel the mustang was the best platform as they break too much, from what i have seen...

I dont doubt the fast mustangs nor the fast hondas.... i doubt the price they are quoting... I can simply shout.. hey i have spent on my car only 9k to get to the 9s... they might have to believe me because maybe the car was 1/2 done and all i did was finish it. but its not the case.. i put this engine from the ground up.

Basically I have
5K shortblock
3K heads
1k intake
1K Clutch
1K ignition
1.2k fuel system
3k supercharger system including the YS
1k vortech aftercooler
1k Rear suspension.
+ miscelaneous, which is where i have eaten up some $, MBA products... Wires... Service for certain things... brakes... different this and different that...

in the end it will get to the 20-22k mark i told you... if i want to get to the low 9s with the setup i have i guess is just a matter of good fuel, good tires and a good rear and crank up teh boost... sell the aftercooler and build either a front mount or a bigger air to water. which will be around 1k more if i seel the current aftercooler... I can strip the car out (no cost) remove A/C remove this ... remove that... it can be done, but i wont do it as i want to USE The car...

Maybe i'll need a better EMS..

Maybe all my talk is BS, it may be.. but i've searched and researched the hondas and pretty much everything that was available before deciding that i wanted a camaro lt1... Actually i wanted a camaro lt1 converted to ls6.

This honda could take you no problem :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479277238&category=6254

Is that funny or what did he meen to say the 1/8th?

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

ROFL

Let's get all the board members to pitch in one dollar each. Then we can have the CZ28.COM project Honda. Or lets not. Either way. :D

I could make a gocart run 6's if I spent enough money, and found a dumb enough driver to drive the damn thing. Would this make gocarts wonderful if I spent the time and money to do this. No.

Honda's still SUCK, regardless of wether or not a team of race car builders built a FWD, full tubular chasis drag car, and put CRX or Civic (or whatever Honda) body panels on it. Show me a full interior, pump gas, FWD Honda, that runs low 11's or faster, on a D.O.T. approved tire, and is daily driver reliable. GOOD LUCK!

This is possible with a small block Chevy. Anyone, and I stress ANYONE, can do this, and can do it relialbly. This is the beauty of the small block Chevrolet. Or just about any domestic V-8 for that matter.

I work at an Acura dealership, in the service department. I've worked there for 6 years. All of the Acura's that are somewhat quick, eventually come to the dealership on a tow truck. I see it every week, with my own eyes. I worked at a Honda dealership before that for 1 year. Same thing.

BOTTOM LINE: Rice Burners are NOT reliable with horse power. If they're fast, they won't last!

Amen...

Its like a friend of mine with a supercharger 13psi boost s2000 novi 1000.

He did 357rwhp... i would get him with the z06 on the expressway w/o downshifting... plain 4th from 60roll.. bye bye no torque... if he shifts... he lost... if he keeps it... oops.. sorry... still.. real racing... uuufffff he lost big big time.. and I only did 340rwhp on that z06.. he is lighter than me.. more power? why doesn't he ourtun me.. as a matter of fact.. why cant he keep up at least? he went to the track he did 13.15s or so...

The reality is.. he has broken the rear 4x (not a track car actually) he broke the trans twice.. Shafts twice.. etc etc etc etc... luckily that engine has held up... he just went down to 8psi boost to keep it reliable at least.

Been there.. seen them and had them... they break STOCK!! imagine modded.

Its funny, I hear about these V-8 dominating imports, I NEVER have seen one in real life. ???

I guess they don't exist here in San Antonio.

Has anyone besides a Honda fan ever seen one?

I have seen a few good ones that will spank a stock v8 lt1s and ls1s too... but they are always modded with some chunks or tricks... And i have seen a few VERY good ones running in the low low 10s@139mph... almost 140... a galant VR4... he runs 32-35psi boost and 150 shot n2o which yields him around 75-100rwhp...

I cant deny that sometimes they are impressive but still when you see the level of extreme i still see why i like so much my car.. and my v8.. because i can still keep the pump gas and a/c.

There are a few "impressive" supras running stock bottom ends with a t88 bolted on and are trapping 135mph @10.5 w/o much trouble and they also claim with very little $ involved besides the car.. hmm...

There was a guy that had a newer supra over here, he bought it with a new clutch and with out to many mods done to it. When he got it and turned up the boost with the stock all most every thing he wasted the clutch with in about 4 drag races.
So he changed the clucth, more stuff broke he barrowed money from people to fix it. More stuff broke he barrowed more money from more people to fix it and he ended up selling it after the people he oed got together and thretened to break off his thumbs. I know he lost tons of money on that thing.
Does any one here realy care about supra's?
That's the best thing about B-serries engines when you mod them hard, they break and go to the junk yard.
I use to see fast cars over here all the time that could take some moded V8's but NONE of them were hondas.
You can allways tell the hondas with there striped insides, no dash hard plastic seats, no carpet, no trimings you know what I mean. They look like crap on the inside, loud, I can't imagine driving them daily, it would suck to have to sit and drive it for more than an hour and they are still slow and lose to every other real car (and that's sad seeing that there are all most no chevy or ford V8's over here, also I have never seen a V8 race over here).
I guess those hondas that domanite V8's arn't over here in japan eather.
I could make an 800hp supra engine powered Al frame go cart that weighs 650lb's with me and the engine, put a "Honda" and "R" stickers and some pannels that liken it to a hatch honda and it could be one of those honda that V8's could never touch.
I dont think you get the most power and speed for your money when useing a honda plat form.

Originally posted by Jeff 96 SS
This honda could take you no problem :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479277238&category=6254

Is that funny or what did he meen to say the 1/8th?

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1 ROFL that guy lives in my town. It's amazing the ignorance you see in the import crowd.

PS: I've seen 9 second Hondas, and they resemble a street car in the same way that an orange resembles a tomato. It's kinda cute to see a little FWD car run those numbers, but that's an all-out racecar and would be impractical at best on the street. Those kids take out everything that can be unbolted, and then go after the car with a holesaw. I sure as hell wouldn't want to go 150mph in whats left of that car:death:

They make the cars look like cheese from the drilling of holes!! jajajaja

Anyways the reality is that supras to EAT UP $ as most every race car.. my car has eaten up a lot of money lately and I think im done for now since the curve of price/HP is EXPONENTIAL!! jeje.

Originally posted by The Highlander
it wasn't your comments....

20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...

The reality is that if you mod a v8 to the same extent as that one you will get even more power..

The reality is that when that car hits the street its not a 9s@150mph machine... most probably a 12s car....


Remember FWD cars wll trap higher than RWD cars will. The manual transmission on Hondas are garbage.

I am a little confused about your comments regarding the 20K figure. I hope you are not referring to my friend lieing to me since I have known him for a long time. He knows alot of things and also knows the ins and outs for making those cars fast. Alot of the parts that he has on his car are used.

Oh yeah and for all the doubters

http://www.hometown.aol.com/sxebrian/xxxracing.html

2330lbs with driver!! damn what a kite!!!!

That is a true street car...

I bet that he doesn't even remember what he put into his car... He quoted you the 20k figure just for saying a number or an estimate. Where does it say that he used ALL ARP Rod bolts? gaskets? and all the miscelaneous things? that is where the real money pit goes... and I know you know that, hey you have a pretty hefty and fast car.. why didn't you chose a honda? for the same reasons i didn't either i bet. That car might be faster than mine, it will surely trap a lot more than mine... but can it be driven daily like mine? can it be stuck in a 2 hr traffic jam with the A/C on no problems??? i sure hope so.. There are camaros faster than that thing in that same track trim which is my point... we have to compare it w/o disadvantages...

He doesn't post all mods...

what about driveshaft... what about chassis work? what about all that is needed to hold the power to the ground...

Tires?

The reality is that it doesn't resemble a real life car...

Im going to put it this way.. how about I get my engine and I put it inside a 240Z '77???

I bet it will trap a lot faster than that one WITH PUMP GAS!!! 93 octane.

The reality is that they are not comparable and they will not compete in the same class in any competition... I wouldn't want to see that car at 152mph accelerating like a rocket in the freeway and taking a simple curve or something...

My point is... its a car that is way over its intended design.. when gm designed the camaro they designed it to be a true drag car.. Its not the same purpose and certeinly his car trapping faster than mine doesn't make it a better engine, nor a better platform, nor a better car, because my judgement of how a car is better than other is different than yours perhaps.

Like I said his car is a lightweight car. Yeah he can drive it on the street and yeah it has awesome power to weight ratio.

The reason I chose a Camaro is because I am a GM guy. I am not into the fart cans. I just respect any car that is fast. (import or domestic). :)

The only reason I posted the above is because everyone always thinks imports are slow and always love talking crap about stuff they do not know (not referring to you).

The fact is that there are fast imports but overall there are alot more faster domestics.


Originally posted by The Highlander
2330lbs with driver!! damn what a kite!!!!

That is a true street car...

I bet that he doesn't even remember what he put into his car... He quoted you the 20k figure just for saying a number or an estimate. Where does it say that he used ALL ARP Rod bolts? gaskets? and all the miscelaneous things? that is where the real money pit goes... and I know you know that, hey you have a pretty hefty and fast car.. why didn't you chose a honda? for the same reasons i didn't either i bet. That car might be faster than mine, it will surely trap a lot more than mine... but can it be driven daily like mine? can it be stuck in a 2 hr traffic jam with the A/C on no problems??? i sure hope so.. There are camaros faster than that thing in that same track trim which is my point... we have to compare it w/o disadvantages...

He doesn't post all mods...

what about driveshaft... what about chassis work? what about all that is needed to hold the power to the ground...

Tires?

The reality is that it doesn't resemble a real life car...

Im going to put it this way.. how about I get my engine and I put it inside a 240Z '77???

I bet it will trap a lot faster than that one WITH PUMP GAS!!! 93 octane.

The reality is that they are not comparable and they will not compete in the same class in any competition... I wouldn't want to see that car at 152mph accelerating like a rocket in the freeway and taking a simple curve or something...

My point is... its a car that is way over its intended design.. when gm designed the camaro they designed it to be a true drag car.. Its not the same purpose and certeinly his car trapping faster than mine doesn't make it a better engine, nor a better platform, nor a better car, because my judgement of how a car is better than other is different than yours perhaps.

Yes there are fast imports.. there are slow imports.. there are slow exotics and there are fast exotics...

Ok.. let me rephrase the question... can he drive it on street trim and still trap 152mph I dont think so...

I do respect fast cars .... but i respect more ALL around cars that are fast.. not specific purpose built machines that are only out one day a month to the track on a trailer and back home.

In that type of trim... i think its a "slow" car compared to a mustang or camaro in that RACE LEVEL TRIM... there are cars trapping deep 8s@160+mph. Be it, they are not pump gas anymore ;)

I guess what im trying to say is... the day Honda or any other manufacturer makes a true affordable v8, like GM does, that is big in cubic inches then I will start respecting the cars and platforms because they will offer less EXTREEMES to do the same.

First off, I'd like to see that car at the gas station using 93 octane "street car gas".

Second, I'd like to see him drive that car on the street with those non DOT approved RACE tires.

Third, Hey, no front license plate. I take that back, we'll let this one slide, even though my car has a front license plate, and I have TWO intercoolers.

Fourth, if its a street car, then were is his registration and inspection sticker?

My point being, THIS IS NOT A STREET CAR, AND IT ONLY RUNS 9'S!! THERE ARE DAILY DRIVEN BIG BLOCK HOT RODS THAT RUN 8'S WITH PUMP GAS, FULL STREET TRIM, AND DOT APPROVED TIRES.

I have a few cars.Three american v8s and one mits engine 92 talon awd.Before this year I never had a import engine car.
I have always had muscle cars and even had some engine swapped vegas and monzas.

American cars are generally pretty reliable.They can take pretty big power without complaining.Huge power usually reguires the normal things..forged pistons,rods,etc.Huge meaning around 500 hp or over.They can usually tolerate things like 100 shots of spray very well and of course you can go thru normal things like rear ends or trannies or clutches in them too.All cars have pluses and minuses.My ls1 has crappy mickey mouse rear end.Weak factory clutch in my 99.My lt1 auto tranny isn't known for being very tough and it too has a crappy weak small rear end.

My 80 ta seems pretty tough.Put a turbo 400 in it for pretty cheap and it already has a decent 10 bolt 8.5 rear end.
My cars are all fairly stock with minor mods mostly.The 80 can hit a high thirteen on street tires,the 99 can hit a mid thirteen on street tires the 96 vert can hit a high 13 also on street tires.The talon hit a mid 14 on stock turbo with bit more psi.It could likely also do a high 13 on street tires with a launch on dry pavement the roads were wet and damp when made that mid 14 runl.

I am also at 1900 feet altitude so cars are slower up here.Not sure if turbo cars can compensate for the altitude hear different opnions on that.

So I keep hearing all this stuff about torque and hp and displacement but in the real world the talon seems to be able to make up some time of course from its killer usually around 2.0 launch on street tires.Guys that are good can usually knock off 1.8 with them all day on street tires.My v8s would of course be much faster with nittos or et steets,etc.Also the talon was run on street 91 octane.

Buddy has a hopped up fwd older subaru he has put quite a bit into .He was formerly a muscle car guy.He is constantly trying to beat any of my cars but so far they all kill him.He has I think around 300 hp at the wheels.And his car does only weight like 2400 pounds or something stupidly light but its not stripped at all just liight factory.Its an subaru xt 1986.

What kills him most everytime is is lack of any traction.On street tires normally he can't do better than a 2.65.From a roll my cars also seem to kill him but not quite as bad.The closest was the other day he ran some race gas and upped the boost.

I would think his car could be a mid thirteen for sure or better with traction.

He has gone thru one engine though so far and clutch.

So what does it all mean.Well any car with enough money or sometimes just ingenuity..eg v8 in a chevette swap or v8 in s10 swap.or. Imports can be made to run fast.Some are easier to make run fast the dsms are pretty good for the buck and if you have the right year like mine you get the much stronger factory engine and rear end.And awd is a good thing and so are turbos.Turbos make more power per cu inch than any other power adder except maybe nitrous.Superchargers can't touch turbo cars.
Turbo v8s or bigger are the ultimate power monsters with big block chevy cars putting out 1600 hp in the 80s and small block v8s putting out 1200 hp also.Every heard of gale banks??

And turbos can make some 4 bangers or 6 cylinders faster than v8s depending on how hard you want to push them and how strong your engine is.Boost doesn't usually kill motors..detonation does.So if you keep the engines from detonating you can run pretty high boost..big intercoolers ,alcohol injection ..these things help a lot.You can make decent race gas with toluene or xylene available at any paint store around here for reasonably cheap.

So I guess we need to respect any fast car.That doesn't mean I personally would buy a honda..never have liked them much.Just don't impress me much..looks styling.they are ok but the nsx is the only honda I really think looked great.
I would consider buying a twin turbo supra,new 350z,old twin turbo z.
I will say too though that once your import gets off warranty and older ,parts are very very expensive and sometimes very hard to get.I can still go to gm and buy some stuff for my 80 ta.And parts for my gms are pretty reasonable for most of it .Aftermarket parts can be high but they usually always are.

And again to be clear..a bigger turbo and smaller turbo do not make the same power at 6psi.The bigger turbo flows more air and makes way more power at 6psi than the smaller one.And turbos are pretty cheap.A 500wheel hp turbo for my talon was 800 US, a 680 hp turbo was like 800 US.I choose the 500 hp one as the bigger one is harder on trannies ,rear ends,etc.And might be a bit less drivable due to slower spool.efficiency maps,etc.
But the newest turbos use ball bearing technology and spin up very fast way less lag than the older tech turbos.I bought an older tech for now due to price but might trade up later.

I don't know what times my talon will run when get my new turbo on there.Guess easy mid 12s at 115 at least.It might be my fastest car for awhile.

I do plan on running an single or twin on my 99 ls1 in near future and plan on big block chevy with 6.71 blower in the 80.

There are other things to consider than pure speed.If you like the car great.If you don't great.
I have beat many imports with my v8s and my talon has beaten quite a few domestics.It goes both ways.
And remember when we are all in love with our v8s that the fastest bikes on the road are almost all japanese technology.Power to weight is still very important.

Anyway this guy with the honda is mostly full of crap in many areas.The import guys do tend to bs a lot and thats when I enjoy beating them the most.But some have very fast toys.A turbo car can be ten car lengths behind one day and even or ahead of you the next.Depends on fuel,boost,how far the guy wants to push his car,etc..:D

Hey you can add turbos to the v8s... there are some killer turbo v8s on this forum... making over 900rwhp... so does the S/C ones... there are a few hitting high 900s too... running 8s...

There are fast cars everywhere. I think that it is safe to say that more domestics in the 11s than imports, more in the 10s and so on. But what a lot of domestics fail to realize, is that there are fast imports. I have heard plenty of Mustang and Camaro guys say "it's just a 4 cylinder". That in itself is an ignorant comment.

As I mentioned before, the local RSX has full interior, drives to the track, does not change tires and runs high 11s. He is still working things out and will be much faster.

There is also a guy with a 90ish Talon/eclipse(don't remember) that is running 6s in the 1/8. He also has full interior and drives it to the track with no change in tires. I don't care who you are, 6s are fast for a car that drove there.

I watched a Supra dyno 535hp to the wheels on the stock shortblock. I hear of more that dyno more than that on the stock shortblock. That is impressive to me.

Their are a few more around here(imports) that are respectable and I am sure have cleaned a few domestic clocks. I wish more domestic owners would educate themselves a little before they make comments that reflect badly on the ones who actually have some sense and cars with hp.

Not that I haven't heard import guys talk about their superior hp/liter, but that is for my amusement imo.

Originally posted by slimdawson
There are fast cars everywhere. I think that it is safe to say that more domestics in the 11s than imports, more in the 10s and so on. But what a lot of domestics fail to realize, is that there are fast imports. I have heard plenty of Mustang and Camaro guys say "it's just a 4 cylinder". That in itself is an ignorant comment.

As I mentioned before, the local RSX has full interior, drives to the track, does not change tires and runs high 11s. He is still working things out and will be much faster.

There is also a guy with a 90ish Talon/eclipse(don't remember) that is running 6s in the 1/8. He also has full interior and drives it to the track with no change in tires. I don't care who you are, 6s are fast for a car that drove there.

I watched a Supra dyno 535hp to the wheels on the stock shortblock. I hear of more that dyno more than that on the stock shortblock. That is impressive to me.

Their are a few more around here(imports) that are respectable and I am sure have cleaned a few domestic clocks. I wish more domestic owners would educate themselves a little before they make comments that reflect badly on the ones who actually have some sense and cars with hp.

Not that I haven't heard import guys talk about their superior hp/liter, but that is for my amusement imo.

Does that RSX run on pump gas??? Is the talone running on pump gas???

THe thing here is that cubic inches make a difference... I want them to make BIG engines so we can compare.. so they see that making a big engine is not arcaic as it seems...

there are fast go-karts... as a matter of fact.. my R/C car is very fast!! but i cant ride it... There are a few things to be considered and they want to go to the street as the ultimate street car.. they are NOT... they lack to much in cubic inches to be able to handle gobs of power on pump gas....
Imports wont get my upmost appreciation because when the sky is the limit and money is not an option i can always crank out 8000HP out of a dragster and i have never ever seen a 4 cylinder do that.

In the end.. the ecotecs are proving to be a better platform than the imports... i just hope there is more enthusiasm for the new ecotecs as there is hondas and we will see very fast street 4 cylinders./

I know that anything with an engine can be made to be fast. Peroid. The point that I am trying to argue is that some cars are VERY unreliable if they run just 12's, and the truely fast FWD *** cars aren't true street cars. I have owned four turbo charged Japanese cars. All were Mitsubishi Starions. I broke EVERY trannsimission and EVERY engine in EVERY one of them! I am somewhat familiar with turbo charged cars. I worked at a Mitsubishi dealer also for a while, so I am very familiar with all the turbo charged Mitsu's. They can be made to be pretty quick. But not Fast and Reliable. I work at an Acura dealer now. The RSX is a cool little car. Very fun to drive, pretty quick, great throttle response, very well set up gearing and power band. 2 liter 4-cylinder with 200 HP. Fun car. Have you seen the tranny on this car? Its TINY! They brake constantly if abused. Just like the trannys on just about every other HONDA. Even the NSX has a small tranny. Don't get me wrong. The NSX is the SH*T! It's my favorite Japanese car, but you can't get it much faster than it is and keep it reliable. I work with these cars everyday. I am sure of this. Not just guessing. They can't handle alot of power, or any torque for that matter. Nitrous DESTROYS Honda/Acura motors and trannys! These drivetrains were never designed to see much torque. Take a look at a T56 next to an NSX six speed tranny. Keep in mind that the NSX tranny is a transaxle, meaning it has a trannsmission inside that case, as well as a differential. The T56 is massive in comparison. And STRONGER.

WHEN JAPAN PUTS OUTS A RWD CAR WITH A V-8, AND A STRONG DRIVELINE, THEN, AND ONLY THEN WILL I AGREE THAT THEY HAVE THE MOST PERFORMANCE POTENTIAL!

I have spoken, FACE TO FACE, with a Honda engineer. Honda will NEVER produce an 8 cylinder engine, for use in a production road car.

First of all I stated if he WANTED to he could drive the car on the street on pump gas. You ever hear of a FAST system (change the program to run pump gas)? You ever hear of a turning the boost down on a turbo?

You are right I am a liar. :rolleyes: I made the car up using Photoshop.

So you are saying any car that runs slicks at the track is not considered a street car? You ever hear of people changing out their slicks to street tires to drive them on the street?

BTW what does you car run in the 1/4?

My point was never made to argue with anyone but to state that there are fast imports out there.

Originally posted by '68LT1camaro
First off, I'd like to see that car at the gas station using 93 octane "street car gas".

Second, I'd like to see him drive that car on the street with those non DOT approved RACE tires.

Third, Hey, no front license plate. I take that back, we'll let this one slide, even though my car has a front license plate, and I have TWO intercoolers.

Fourth, if its a street car, then were is his registration and inspection sticker?

My point being, THIS IS NOT A STREET CAR, AND IT ONLY RUNS 9'S!! THERE ARE DAILY DRIVEN BIG BLOCK HOT RODS THAT RUN 8'S WITH PUMP GAS, FULL STREET TRIM, AND DOT APPROVED TIRES.

Originally posted by '68LT1camaro
I have spoken, FACE TO FACE, with a Honda engineer. Honda will NEVER produce an 8 cylinder engine, for use in a production road car.

since when was an engineer in charge of deciding what they will build. lmao........engineers just do what the company tells them.

Originally posted by IDOXLR8
First of all I stated if he WANTED to he could drive the car on the street on pump gas. You ever hear of a FAST system (change the program to run pump gas)? You ever hear of a turning the boost down on a turbo?

You are right I am a liar. :rolleyes: I made the car up using Photoshop.

So you are saying any car that runs slicks at the track is not considered a street car? You ever hear of people changing out their slicks to street tires to drive them on the street?

BTW what does you car run in the 1/4?

My point was never made to argue with anyone but to state that there are fast imports out there.

That is not the point.. because i can do practically anything... you can take a F1 can adn you COULD drive it on the street... you COULD do many things...

I've never said you made up that car... all i said is that you posted those times are with slick and on race gas with full boost... With race gas, slicks and full boost, there are Many more v8s in that range than that civic... what i tried to say.. take that car to the track with pump gas and normal radial rain tires...

You could drive that car on the street.. would it be comfortable?? or would it be a pain.. A real suffering...

Lots of road noise, yada yada yada... come on IDOx... you are trying to defend that type of car because he is your friend, but the reality is that its an extreme measure to have what you can have on a "streetable" v8, be it boost, n2o or N/A.

Another thing.. I am familiar that GM cars have programable computers and that the aftermarket provides to take advantage of it, w/o ALTERING or ADDING ANYTHING IN THE PCM... where as honda has the hondata and you have to send the PCM to be modified...

Take care.

I wasn't saying that it isn't possible for your buddy to run his car on the street on pump gas. My point is that it isn't possible for it to run on the street with pump gas, and drive itself to the track, and run 9's with out swapping tires, fuel, and adjusting boost.

Yes, I have heard of F.A.S.T. I run gen 7 DFI in my daily driver, I am very familiar with the tuneability of these systems.

I am very aware of the fact that the engineers do as they are told. I was simply stating the fact that Honda will never put a V-8 in street cars. I don't care as to why, I was just letting you guys in on my source of information. I think a Honda engineer is a pretty good source of Honda information.

Originally posted by The Highlander
That is not the point.. because i can do practically anything... you can take a F1 can adn you COULD drive it on the street... you COULD do many things...

I've never said you made up that car... all i said is that you posted those times are with slick and on race gas with full boost... With race gas, slicks and full boost, there are Many more v8s in that range than that civic... what i tried to say.. take that car to the track with pump gas and normal radial rain tires...

You could drive that car on the street.. would it be comfortable?? or would it be a pain.. A real suffering...

Lots of road noise, yada yada yada... come on IDOx... you are trying to defend that type of car because he is your friend, but the reality is that its an extreme measure to have what you can have on a "streetable" v8, be it boost, n2o or N/A.

Another thing.. I am familiar that GM cars have programable computers and that the aftermarket provides to take advantage of it, w/o ALTERING or ADDING ANYTHING IN THE PCM... where as honda has the hondata and you have to send the PCM to be modified...

Take care.

Geez, you don't quit do you? Different strokes for different folks. What is comfortable to you may not be to someone else, and vice versa. As far as pump gas versus race gas, yes you can take your car to the track on pump gas, so can a turbo import. I think he has the advantage there tho, cause to switch to race gas, he can up the boost as well. All you can do is add timing. Plus, you said you won't go to the track, so you can't count your car, cause it hasn't done SQUAT. COULD it? It COULD blow up tommorow, or get hit by a bus, god willing. But if you HAVEN"T and he HAS, then the civic is FASTER and QUICKER than your car. Also, the radial rain tire remark shows your ignorance. If you go to the track ever, and its on radials, thats your perogative. Most people go to the track to see how fast their car is, and that means you need traction.

Modifying the PCM? I can tell you from experience (owned 3 hondata systems, how many have you?) that Honda has a MUCH better modifying platform for the ECU. Hondata uses a MAP based setup and with the hondata you can use a 3 bar map sensor and up to 28lbs of boost. You do NOT need to send the PCM off to change, if you have a notebook, which you would need if you have a Camaro and want to use LT1edit or tunercat. Don't compare that to a hypertech, if you do, you are simply a moron.

Here is my take on this - if you want a fast drag car, for the money, go mustang. If you want a fast car on the street - do WHATEVER THE **** MAKES YOU HAPPY.

That crx is a bit excessive. BUT, I do have many friends with less than 10K invested in their setups making 350+ RWHP on 93 octane. (Oh ****, there ya go, you run on 91, another excuse for you). You'll need a ****load of power at 3700lbs to keep up with a 2400lb car with 350. These cars keep up with Gixxers (750s) from a roll. DAILY driven, FULL interior. They idle fine, have no cooling issues, AND if they WANT to run race gas, they can, and DO. Then they up the boost and smoke a car like yours on the interstate. Oh yeah, you'd win from a stop, but wait! That would be a drag race, and you don't go to the track, so you might as well go from a roll.

Here's a kicker for ya to. The majority of these cars do it with STOCK HEADS and STOCK CAMS.

Wow... pretty macho insulting... I have not done that so lets keep the resepct.

93 - 91 same ****... still sell you camaro or lt1 and buy a honda... why did you chose the v8 then???

Wether i have done or not is IRRELEVANT.. because I have beaten 10sec cars in all THEIR RACE TRIM AND RACE GAS AND GOBS OF BOOST bla bla bla.... Because i dont have a slip does it mean i cant perform?? how about a dyno sheet? WHat is your point? that he went to the track and I didn't??? Cool good for him...

But you are right.. different strokes for different folks,but dont come on here implying many things and loose perspective of the reality which is the extremeness of EACH SETUP and the advantages of the bigger engine. Period...

I have played with the hondata system every once in a while and yes with boost its a lot better suited than the GM ECM, other than that i prefer the GM ECM...

You say a BIT excessive???

there is nothing there you can really enjoy on the street in a day to day basis.

To this day.. I am just dying to see one of this cute hondas beat my a$$ off from a roll which is where i like to race... till 160.

Raced them.. and oops.. nothing happened, and i still have A/C, powersteering and the comforts not a swiss cheese they call a car.... as a matter of fact.. i have never seen them run 150+ mph on the track here, it may be the temp.. that its always ~95++ at the track and sometimes way over 100F and/or the humidity.. .but when the masters here have gone to the US they usually bring a trophy home... That said i still haven't found a civic or a similar car that in its RACE trim will spank me pretty good.. must be because they cant drive it around...

As i said.. we all can make pretty fast setups with lighter chassis and stuff... will they be real cars?? hell no.. drag machines.. of course... but as for an all out drag machine.. they are still unimpressive.. period.. im done with this topic...

Another note.. i've raced MANY supposed 350whp civics... many 473rwhp s2000... many 400whp turbo+n2o civics.. and they are all a joke.. you were saying power to weight??? i had only 607 at the time... im not here to gloat or anything but dont put off the reality THEY ARE STILL KITES, and be careful if you drive one on the street with that much power.. you can run sideways you know.. if you got spanked by a civic with a turbo. go buy one...

Yeah he is my friend. All I am saying is that his car is fast. Regardless of what anyone thinks. 9.8's is fast. :)

I am not argueing with you on the points you have made. All I am saying is no matter how fast someones car is someone will always have something bad to say.

Yeah my car has made over 700 rwhp. Based on what I have done with stock ported heads I am pretty impressed with my car but I have yet to prove anything at the track because of issues that have plagued me.

Running in the 9's take more than just hp. You need suspension, etc...and alot of time in the car. :)

People will like different cars and that is cool with me. I have been on this board for too long to argue things like this. :)

I am through. :)



Originally posted by The Highlander
That is not the point.. because i can do practically anything... you can take a F1 can adn you COULD drive it on the street... you COULD do many things...

I've never said you made up that car... all i said is that you posted those times are with slick and on race gas with full boost... With race gas, slicks and full boost, there are Many more v8s in that range than that civic... what i tried to say.. take that car to the track with pump gas and normal radial rain tires...

You could drive that car on the street.. would it be comfortable?? or would it be a pain.. A real suffering...

Lots of road noise, yada yada yada... come on IDOx... you are trying to defend that type of car because he is your friend, but the reality is that its an extreme measure to have what you can have on a "streetable" v8, be it boost, n2o or N/A.

Another thing.. I am familiar that GM cars have programable computers and that the aftermarket provides to take advantage of it, w/o ALTERING or ADDING ANYTHING IN THE PCM... where as honda has the hondata and you have to send the PCM to be modified...

Take care.

Originally posted by IDOXLR8
Yeah he is my friend. All I am saying is that his car is fast. Regardless of what anyone thinks. 9.8's is fast. :)

I am not argueing with you on the points you have made. All I am saying is no matter how fast someones car is someone will always have something bad to say.

Yeah my car has made over 700 rwhp. Based on what I have done with stock ported heads I am pretty impressed with my car but I have yet to prove anything at the track because of issues that have plagued me.

Running in the 9's take more than just hp. You need suspension, etc...and alot of time in the car. :)

People will like different cars and that is cool with me. I have been on this board for too long to argue things like this. :)

I am through. :)

IT is fast!!!! NO ONE IS DENYING IT!!! someone simply has NO BRAINS to see what is the point of all this crap.

but what do you appreciate more... Mr. Universe that used steroids or a mr. olympia that did it naturally???

Originally posted by '68LT1camaro
I wasn't saying that it isn't possible for your buddy to run his car on the street on pump gas. My point is that it isn't possible for it to run on the street with pump gas, and drive itself to the track, and run 9's with out swapping tires, fuel, and adjusting boost.

Yes, I have heard of F.A.S.T. I run gen 7 DFI in my daily driver, I am very familiar with the tuneability of these systems.

I am very aware of the fact that the engineers do as they are told. I was simply stating the fact that Honda will never put a V-8 in street cars. I don't care as to why, I was just letting you guys in on my source of information. I think a Honda engineer is a pretty good source of Honda information.

You would be surprised how much stuff is kept from an engineer. It is pretty funny because the public usually finds stuff out first. :)

Originally posted by The Highlander
IT is fast!!!! NO ONE IS DENYING IT!!! someone simply has NO BRAINS to see what is the point of all this crap.

but what do you appreciate more... Mr. Universe that used steroids or a mr. olympia that did it naturally???

Don't worry I have plenty of brains :)

I just get frustrated when I feel people are attacking me. :)

Sorry I respect my package to deal with roids...

Originally posted by IDOXLR8
Don't worry I have plenty of brains :)

I just get frustrated when I feel people are attacking me. :)

Sorry I respect my package to deal with roids...

Didn't mean you...

Originally posted by The Highlander
Didn't mean you...

Cool :)

I thought I may had been getting slow. :D


Highlander

When is your car going to be ready? :)




To everyone

Let's get back to building fast f-bodies. I think this whole post got out of hand. And yes I am guilty also........

Highlander, I don't know if they were running pump gas or not. It is irrevelant to me. Most of they guys that I know with 350s that are doing anything, run track fuel for added safety. That goes for any motor. You reach a point where you cannot run pump gas reliably. I have had bad batches of 93 before and if you are on the ragged edge of detonation, that could lead to disaster.

I have heard of tremendous amounts of hp from pump gas, but imo it does determine a car's image as a streetcar, unless the car can not be made to run on 93 octane or less(tune change, timing reduction, etc.) Simple changes like that.

Originally posted by got_hp?
since when was an engineer in charge of deciding what they will build. lmao........engineers just do what the company tells them.

This is funny. . .

On the surface, I feel insulted. But deep down, I know it's true.

Mike

Originally posted by engineermike
This is funny. . .

On the surface, I feel insulted. But deep down, I know it's true.

Mike

haha, i didnt mean it as insulting, i was just stating the facts. the ceo/directors decide what gets built........the engineer just tells them how!

so basically n/a 4 bangers blow ass and are tapped out.

oh a 400whp integra is sick...compared to what?

a 380hp ls1 in that same integra is better.

a ls1 in a sdtock fiero is "sicker".

i've seen drag pintos (without v8s)..does that mean ****? no just like bull**** civics (or shells of civics) in their little cushioned classes.

v8 japanese or european or american still rule in the power/powerband/milage/emissions department.

why is the koenigsegg not a 4 cyl? LMAO

as far as imports, a 6 with a poweradder can compete, since it's just emulating a those extra 2 cylinders.

of course the bigger the CID, the bigger turbo can be spooled, so in the end the 6s get the shatf as well.

Well... a car that i will be racing did 10.24@141mph last week :eek:

That is a 4 cylinder turbo 35psi + 150 (IIRC) n2o galant vr4... completely stripped...

The car is totally purpose built.. so to beat that one has to go purpose built too... or have more cubes ;)

Its fast and yes its "respected" but the thing is that that car doesn't resemble a street car anymore.. it CANNOT be driven in the streets. It can idle for too long and it doesn't have a/c.. imagine yourself in a traffic jam where pavment temps reach 200F!!!! w/o A/C in a 1hour jam??? WOAA!!!!

Can i beat him?? sure i can... and i can still be streetable where he isn't.

Hey Z28wannaB, so dose that guy have really have a shop?
I've seen "350hp" civics race over not very impressive at all, like a big bad fire work that is a dud.
When I see a real 350hp car race it's like :eek: over here because you don't see cars that power full over here very often.
If a "350hp" civic raced a real 350hp car they would get killed so bad. The civics only race each other over here most of the time the only way for them to get a fair race.
Who would build a civic over here (any way about 1/2 of them are other americans go figure) when you can get GTR's, RX7's, s13's, supras, 180Z's and more?
Theres plenty for every one, too.
If I cared any would I get a nice n/a 1.6L fwd or a turbo charged real wheel drive like a 180Z or an RX7?
I drive a pos toyota 1.8L 5-speed over here and funnel my $'s to my camaros back home.