454?

Could I drop the 454 out of my 85 GMC suburban into a camaro?

Yes, it's a tight fit, but has been done. There are kits, for headers etc. on the market.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/487725
:D

its alot of work but in the end its will worth it. and its spelt CAMARO:D

lol I have always spelled it -w- an e... man its hard to break that habit :D (I do know how to spell ;) )

Anyway, since Im new I had better tell a little about myself, I had to run off earlier, so thats why my first post was so short.

Im (almost) 17 and have been a diehard Chevy/GM fan almost all of that time, I have wanted a camaro for quite a while, the only thing that has kept me from buying one yet is that there are so many out there, so obviously I needed to do something a little differant... My parents dont want me to drive until Im 18 (long story) so Ill have plenty of time and money to get a nice car, however I have a GMC suburban -w- a 454 :metal: in it that I can buy from my parents, Im thinking I could get a nice 3rd gen camaro locally for a fair price, "freshen up" the 454, and drop it in there -w- some mods.

If I could find a camaro w-out a motor and tranny it would be great, take a couple trips to a salvage/junk yard, and I would be good!

If you think its worth it, then I think its a go. However I would greatly appreciate any more info on it. Does anyone have any numbers of what a 454 could put out with some "simple mods"?

Thanks.

~Mark~

a 454 with a nice 600lift cam
a nice set of heads the flow well around 300cfm and up
10.5 to 1
a good carb and a soil bottom end can make a soil 550 at the crank. but the down side is its gona cost a nice penny to build it

you should be able to use the trans out of the suburban too right? probably a turbo 400 or 350 at least. 700r4s don't like BB torque much ;)

Would I have to modify the frame at all to put it in?

Also, just out of curiosity, what mods would it take to pick up the front?

Thanks.

Mark

I own a 454 and considered building it to put in my 84 Camaro, but decided against it. The cost and headache of doing it made me change my mind. I'm sure I'll be happy with my AFR head 383 anyway.


Running a stout small block in a 3rd gen is tough enough as is. This weekend I'm welding in Spohn SFC's and installing the Spohn TQ arm/crossmember to my 9" rear. I hope everything fits up with a minimal amount (if any!) fabrication. I'm also planning on cutting the floorboards to make room for dual 3" mufflers. Y-pipes suck!

What cost would I be looking @?

And to make sure everyon knows, Im a welder and beginner mechanic, with a ASE certified mechanic as a bro-in-law who owns a multi-mil dollar shop (largest and most technically advanced in the area) who also used to be a top pit-crew mechanic and then started building race engines for drag cars in Cincinnati Ohio.

So I wont have to worry about lack of knowlege

Later

Mark

It will fit but as mentioned above, the swap isn't cheap unless you do a real cheap swap but then you give up a lot of performance potential. Stock exhaust manifolds is the real cheap way to do it but they already choke the BBC. Hooker Headers makes the cheapest swap headers. They're around $400 and are not a direct bolt in fit. Some modifications are required to get them to fit properly. Better fitting headers are more expensive. They start at around $800.

Tall valve covers are a problem especially with a wiper motor. A more than stock intake manifold pushes the carb too close to the hood so a cowl hood will be required.

TH400 tranny should be used if you want it to last. If the Suburban has a TH400 you can use that but you'll need to buy a new TH400 slip yoke. The Suburban's should be a bolt on style and won't work in the Camaro. The stock 10 bolt diff can be broken with a 305/350 so if you abuse the diff with the 454, it will break also. A bolt in 9" or 12 bolt is around $2000.

SFC are a must. So is a bigger rad.

Dropping the engine into the car is nothing special. The motor mounts sit in the same location as the SBC. The front of the engine will sit forward a few inches from where the SBC is because the block is a little bit longer (larger bore spacing).

That engine might have 781 casting heads. Those are large oval ports. Some port and polish work and some 2.19/1.88 valves make them a very good head.

If you do plan on doing the swap, don't expect it to be a one or two weekend job.

I hear everyone talk about how impressive a 454 is, but when I drive the suburban it doesnt have overly impresive power, I know it would gain some due to a huge drop in weight, but was wondering if it was partially the auto transmision, I know it doesnt have a stock tranny, they put a differant setup in for better performance towing a horse trailer around. So with that known, would I be better of getting something differant?

:confused:

Oh, and Stephen 87 IROC... Thanks for the info :alert:

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Your 454 isn't impressing because it is in a 4800lb. truck and is a truck engine. Even a stock 454 with oval port heads and a good hydraulic cam, 4bbl intake, and headers will make respectable power.

Originally posted by MC454
And to make sure everyon knows, Im a welder and beginner mechanic, with a ASE certified mechanic as a bro-in-law who owns a multi-mil dollar shop (largest and most technically advanced in the area) who also used to be a top pit-crew mechanic and then started building race engines for drag cars in Cincanati (sp?) Ohio.

So I wont have to worry about lack of knowlege

Later

Mark

cincinnati
:)

Originally posted by MC454
I hear everyone talk about how impressive a 454 is, but when I drive the suburban it doesnt have overly impresive power,

#1 The suburban should be in the 6000-7500 pound range. Not exactly a speed demon.

#2 A factory 454 in that era only produces around 250 hp at the most.

So is that not the 454 I would want to put in, or would it be easy to put out more ponies than that?

Cincinnati... got it (thanks) ;)

A late model production 454 is very low HP. Nothing that some minor head work, cam swap, headers and intake manifold can't fix. The base is roughly all the same. Chances are the engine is low compression (8:1). You have to start with something. Don't be impressed by engines like 454 LS6 or the aluminum head LS7. They have nothing the aftermarket can't make better.

The biggest thing about getting the engine is to get it as complete as possible. Make sure it has all the accessory brackets, water pump etc. Those are specific to the BBC and SBC parts won't work. The distributor is about the only thing that's the same.

Stephen 87 IROC i have do disagree the Ls6 flows about 300cfm and has alot of meat for porting.

I didn't say they were bad, just don't spend a lot of money just because someone claims it's an LS6. Chances are you're not going to find one for cheap anyway. Even finding a plain 454 core isn't always cheap. Many aftermarket heads are equal or better in performance to factory heads and have better castings to work with. Same goes for intake, carb, pistons. A base model 454 can easily make 500 hp with a few simple changes and is a lot cheaper to make that kind of power than trying to build a very high HP SBC.

A base model 454 can easily make 500 hp with a few simple changes and is a lot cheaper to make that kind of power than trying to build a very high HP SBC.

THANK YOU! I`ve been trying to tell many board members that same thing, but it`s like talking to a brick wall with some:rolleyes:

You might also want to consider the extra weight on the nose of your car if you do a big block swap. You may need a stiffer suspension setup to get the car back to a reasonable height, and it probably won't handle as well. You could offset this a little if you used a fiberglass hood and some aluminum heads and such, but all that stuff costs money.

I would think it'd be far cheaper and simpler for you to build a mild small block to put in a third gen. The fit won't be nearly as tight, heck, you could probably even change plugs and wires somewhat easily. Not so with a big block. Small block parts are cheaper than big block stuff. You have substantially less weight with a small block than a big block (better acceleration and handling), sbc headers for a third gen are easy to come by, you could probably run tall valve covers with a sbc that would give you room for roller rockers (not so with the big block), and you won't have to worry quite as much about the rear end, though you'll still probably break it, you won't have to worry as much about upgrading the cooling system (bigger radiator) and getting all that stuff to fit, the list goes on and on.

Bottom line is that this swap can be done, but it ain't easy. I'm not doubting your knowledge about cars or your funding sources or anything, but it'd be a job and a half to swap in a big block. The reason the big block in the suburban feels weak is, like everyone else said, it's a smog era engine that might be making about 250 hp, and it's in a huge truck. If you want to swap it into a camaro as-is, you could make a lot more power with a mild small block with a lot less hassle and headache. If you want mega monster horsepower out of it, like above 450, you'd probably be cheaper building a big block to that power level than a small block, but if you get into power like that you're going to have to replace darn near the whole car to keep it reliable. How much money do you wanna spend?

You could probably build yourself a decent, fairly stout small block up over time for fairly cheap, especially if you shop smart and get used parts and stuff when you can. A built small block will also give you plenty of power to play with, break every speed limit in the U.S., toast your tires into an oblivion, eat a whole lot of ricers for breakfast and otherwise generally keep you into trouble. Plus your car would handle better and you'd come out a LOT cheaper, and with more power and better handling than just sticking the bbc in as-is.

If you want to go all out and aren't afraid to spend a lot of money (engine build, tranny build up and swap, rear end swap, better brakes to compensate for the weight, suspension beef up, cooling system upgrade, cowl clearance and modifications, hood clearance, valve cover clearance, the list goes on) Then by all means don't let me stop you, go for it, have fun, and post videos and pics when you're done. Just consider your other options as well, and be realistic abou the money you have to spend and such. That is also assuming you can do all of the work involved yourself. If you did a sbc build, keep in mind you could always keep the 'burban as a tow to the dragstrip, a parts truck, and a winter and bad weather vehicle.;)

I agree with Jbird. Not only that- the rotating assembly is so heavy, that robs power too.

Jbird is right about two things....it`ll wiegh more and cost more period.

1. Plugs are easier than ANY small block in a third gen

2. Full roller rockers fit under stock cast aluminum short covers.

3. Stock three row brass/copper replacment cools my .100 over 454 fine with stock fans

4. what you put in is what you get out, go cheap get poor results , goes for any motor

5. Brakes, trans, rear, all can be upgraded down the road when it`s time.

How come most everyone is basically against anyone having something that is somewhat different, I bet if he wanted an hsr and lingerfiler bumpstick and paxton and everything else that all the other sheep had, it would be all cheers

Then again the big block only ways about 150 pounds more than a small block, so it isn't going to make much of a difference weight wise. You also don't have to replace the coil springs like every one says you have too. I have helped put V6 springs in a Z28 before, and have swapped 350's into former V6 cars with out upgrading the springs.

Martin

u dont have to put the diff spring in the front for the big block. I did the swap about 4 months ago and the ride hight has not changed. I also have a fiberglass hood tho ... and lighter seats stuff like that

That's pretty cool that plugs are easier, roller rockers fit under the short covers, and you're doing good as far as the cooling goes. Don't get me wrong, I love big blocks, and I think a big block swap would be great, but I just wanted to let the guy know what he's up against. Before I was 18 there's no way I'd have been able to afford a bbc swap on anything with clearance issues, and especially practice enough restraint to keep the rear together.

Hey, if he thinks he's got the money and skill to do it, I say go for it. Big blocks are the dad, no question about it. I just wanted to bring up what all could be involved so he'd know kind of what he could be up against before hand. I was really surprised about the plug changes being easier, and didn't realize rr's would fit under the covers. It's also great that your car is cooling your bbc adequately, I suppose if the cooling system is in good shape in the project he chooses, cooling issues may not be too bad then. Thanks for the corrections, you learn a little more every day.

Stephen and Greezey could moderate. The big block question always comes up, and it really boils down to this: what have you already got, and what are you willing to get? If you have a decent F-bod and a "complete" V8 of any shape (SB or BB), your work will be worth it in the end. The more work you do, the less money you'll spend. The more money you spend, the less you'll have to do. Either family of motor will produce impressive numbers with enough time and money. My project is a plain jane V6 and an ambulance engine. One could argue thet a small-block would work better, or that I should hunt down a V8 car, or that a pair of Swedish turbos mated to the six would be the setup. But I've already got the basic parts!

HI GUYS IM NEW HERE BUT I VE BEEN DRAG RACING FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN INTO DRAG RACING AND HOT ROD CARS FOR EVER I THINK. IM CURRENTLY BUILDING A 84 Z WITH A 472 ITS SITTING IN THE CAR BUT IM WAITING ON HEADERS FROM ED QUAY. HE SELLS THEM FOR ABOUT 600 WITH 2 1/8 PRIMARIES. I DONT THINK THAT IT IS GONNA WEIGH THAT MUCH MORE THAN THE SMAL BLOCK WHEN YOU CONSIDER MY BIG BLOCK HAS ALUMINUM WATER PUMP INTAKE AND HEADS. IVE REMOVED ALL THE SMOG STUFF GOT RID OF THOSE HEAVY MANIFOLDS AND ALL THE A/C STUFF.YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT A POWER GLIDE AND AN 8 INCH CONVERTER ARE A GOOD BIT LIGHTER THAN THE 700R4. MAYBE IM WRONG BUT I DONT THINK ITLL BE TO HEAVY PLUS THE FIBERGLASS HOOD AND ALUMINUM RADIATOR.

Sounds great in Monroe. I'd love to hear that 472 at the Rock.

SOUNDS GOOD MAN ARE YOU FROM AROUND HERE?ITLL BE A WHILE BEFORE ITS AT THE TRACK. I HOPE TO FIRE IT UP THIS WEEKEND. BUT ILL HAVE TO GET A REAR END BEFORE ITS READY FOR THE TRACK. M SURE THE 10 BOLT WANT STAND ANY TRANS BRAKE LAUNCHES. ITS ALL IN THE PLANS THOUGH. WHAT DO YOU HAVE?I GO TO THE ROCK A PRETTY GOOD BIT. I RAN A TOP GAS TURBO BIKE FOR THE PAST COUPLE YEARS AND BEFORE THAT I HAD A WHITE 67 CAMARO I RAN THERE A GOOD BIT.

Pleaseturn off the CAPS LOCK.

Martin