Took out and LS1

Well last night I was out driving and I seen a newer light brown (pewter?) z28. So I pulled in and bs'd with him for a bit and it was a 2001 Camaro z28 with a 6 speed. He claimed to have a dynomax superturbo muffler and headers, but I doubt he had headers. He just finished beating my other buddy's 03 Mustang GT so I asked him to race. We went from a stop honking 3 times. He got a car length on me off the start but I passed him in at 3rd gear and shut it down at 120mph being 3 car lengths ahead. He wasn't too pleased considering that he just bought the car.

LT1 = 1
LS1 = 0

:D

Good kill!
He couldn't drive! ;)

:lol: Riiiight :lol:

Good kill.

so you beat a car that comes stock 310 hp when yours comes what?, 275 stock so the hp was probably close to being even, sounds like he couldnt drive, good thing for you he didnt have headers and exhaust, same mods as you.

Are you kidding me! The all mighty LS1 can't be beat!! :D

Here we go with the "Bolt On LT1 can't beat a stock LS1" crap..

Originally posted by bluecmaro96
so you beat a car that comes stock 310 hp when yours comes what?, 275 stock so the hp was probably close to being even, sounds like he couldnt drive, good thing for you he didnt have headers and exhaust, same mods as you.

Longtubed LT1's with full 3" exhaust and a couple of other minor things like a pulley on the crank and tuning can net around 300rwhp on a LT1. So if he had 310HP then it should be no contest? He has t-tops, I have a hard top. So I have an advantage there. I guess its a good thing I didn't have a turbo or a cam on my LT1, he would have been beatin like a fool :rolleyes:
Bring your bolton LS1 to me and I'll hand your a$$ to you too.

Nice kill. :thumb:


Originally posted by hsyr
Bring your bolton LS1 to me and I'll hand your a$$ to you too.

If I lived near you...I'd gladly take you up on that.

Beat an LS1 = LT1 vs LS1 = flamewar...

Originally posted by hsyr
Bring your bolton LS1 to me and I'll hand your a$$ to you too.
Cocky statement there. Good thing you dont live near me. I have a buddy with a 02 auto LS1 with just catback and lid. He would destroy you. Car runs 8.1's @ 87mph in the 1/8! Stock stall and gear.

Originally posted by LT1ponykilla
Cocky statement there. Good thing you dont live near me. I have a buddy with a 02 auto LS1 with just catback and lid. He would destroy you. Car runs 8.1's @ 87mph in the 1/8! Stock stall and gear.

A cocky reply deseves one back I figure. I'm not aiming at other LS1s, just his.

Originally posted by hsyr
A cocky reply deseves one back I figure. I'm not aiming at other LS1s, just his.


Wise decision ;)

Good kill, i bet he was pissed. He probably said "Lt1..whaaaaaaa???"

Originally posted by hsyr
A cocky reply deseves one back I figure. I'm not aiming at other LS1s, just his.

Gotcha!

Originally posted by bluecmaro96
so you beat a car that comes stock 310 hp when yours comes what?, 275 stock so the hp was probably close to being even, sounds like he couldnt drive, good thing for you he didnt have headers and exhaust, same mods as you.

How could you post such a newbie response with that post count of yours?

You quoted BlueCmaro96 and said he was a newbie, how so?

bluecmaro96
Prominent Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: windber pa
Posts: 1854

first of all calm down i never said a bolt on lt1 couldnt beat an ls1, i just basically said that if the ls1 had the same mods as you i doubt you would have won, i mean im not being cocky its just mod for mod i dont see an lt1 beating an ls1, never said a bolt on lt1 couldnt beat a fairly stock ls1. now im not gonna drive all the way to canada from pa to race you, i dont see you beating my car with yours though but to each his own i guess, and im not saying my ls1 is almighty so dont go there. and lt1 pony killa no disrespect to you but camaro guy wasnt saying im a newbie he just said the response i posted was like a newbie response, again all i meant when i said good thing he didnt have same mods as you was mod for mod i believe an ls1 would win, and the only reason is because they come with more hp stock, nothing against the lt1 so calm down but to the canadian guy, if you wanna spend the money on gas and come to pa ill race you, A :)

Ok I get you know. The guy said he has headers which I'm sure he meant were shorties but I'm about 95% they were stock manifolds and he just thought they were headers. So really all the car had was a catback and maybe some free mods.

Originally posted by LT1ponykilla
You quoted BlueCmaro96 and said he was a newbie, how so?

bluecmaro96
Prominent Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: windber pa
Posts: 1854

Care to read my post a little better? Here try again:

How could you post such a newbie response with that post count of yours?

In other words that means i took note of how long he has been here, and how many posts he has made; therefore i was asking why his post stank of newbie?

;)

And bluecmaro96, all is well:) We all know that mod for mod an LT1 will not hang with an LS1. Thats basicaly just like saying a stock LT1 will not hang with a stock LS1...we all know that. I agree with you.

LS1's are incredible motors. I know two guys who have run low 11's with stock motor. People dont give LT1s very much credit anymore. But i dont feel like getting into that whole mess.

Good Kill to the original poster.

Originally posted by hsyr
Well last night I was out driving and I seen a newer light brown (pewter?) z28. So I pulled in and bs'd with him for a bit and it was a 2001 Camaro z28 with a 6 speed. He claimed to have a dynomax superturbo muffler and headers, but I doubt he had headers. He just finished beating my other buddy's 03 Mustang GT so I asked him to race. We went from a stop honking 3 times. He got a car length on me off the start but I passed him in at 3rd gear and shut it down at 120mph being 3 car lengths ahead. He wasn't too pleased considering that he just bought the car.

LT1 = 1
LS1 = 0

:D

First and foremost Good Kill.

As far as the debate is concerned I'll try to say this as impartialy as possible but since I own a LS1 that'll be difficult. Lets say your correct and he only had a catback (no headers). A 2001 M6 will have the benifit of LS6 intake so I'm gonna guess 305-315 RWHP. A LT1 with LT's and GMMG would be in the neighborhood of 290-300 rwhp in most cases. Pretty close when you think about it but the LS1 should still have a slight rwhp and trap speed advantage. With equal drivers that race would have ended up with the LS1 victorious. But that wasn't the case here. You were clearly the better driver and deserve props for that.

I love fast cars. I love the way LT1's look and sound. I have no problem losing to a LT1. I'm betting if you and him switched cars and raced again, you would win again and probably by more then three car lengths. I hope you don't take that as an insult to your car because I mean it more as a compliment to your driving skills.

Again good kill and happy hunting.

A kill is a kill, who cares what is between the L and the 1...good kill, I hope to shoot down some newer Z's someday.

How do you like your LT's with the GMMG? Whats your setup on that?

-Dustin-

You must have a strong running LT1 to beat a 01 6spd w/ just a catback n headers...sure a better LS1 driver would have givin you a better run

you guys are funny , you get sucked into this stuff every time!

stock for stock the ls1 will beat it but I don't agree entirely with the modded ls1's will beat moded lt1's. Without any motor work you can run a 175 shot of spray on an lt1. Try that with ans ls1 and you get stetched head bolts and a cracked block. From my experience the ls1's don't like n20 like my lt1

here we go everyone put your waders on its gettin deep in here, now this thread is gonna start saying an ls1 cant handle mods like an lt1 to each his own i suppose, oh well say what you want this is the last time im gonna post in here, yes i understand thels1 has aluminum block and heads, i think? well i know if they do that would be why they cant handle the higher juice, nut in my opinion a person would be an idiot runnin that much juice without motor work done, better safe than sorry is how i am, oh well take it easy guys

that's right blue camaro I am an idiot. For the past 2 1/2 years I have been an idiot, for 30,000 miles I have been an idiot. For around 25 10 pound bottles I have been an idiot...........My valve covers have never been off, there is 120,xxx on the odometer. But I am a fast idiot

From what i've seen and heard the only reason an LS1 can't handle that much nitrous is because of the composite intake. And that big of a shot on a stock internals LT1 i'd consider yourself lucky!:death:

the reason they can't handle as much nitrous is they have less head bolts, a wider space between the bolts causes them to stretch. And maybe I am lucky but I have 2 friends with the same set-ups and no problems with them either

Originally posted by sniffin94
stock for stock the ls1 will beat it but I don't agree entirely with the modded ls1's will beat moded lt1's. Without any motor work you can run a 175 shot of spray on an lt1. Try that with ans ls1 and you get stetched head bolts and a cracked block. From my experience the ls1's don't like n20 like my lt1 Thats a bunch of crap, been hearing that false remark since 97....LS1's love nos so im not sure how much experience you really have w/ them...and for the record mod for mod the LS1 will always be faster...that aluminum block is stronger then you think.

Originally posted by Antz97ZNJ
Thats a bunch of crap, been hearing that false remark since 97....LS1's love nos so im not sure how much experience you really have w/ them...and for the record mod for mod the LS1 will always be faster...that aluminum block is stronger then you think.

That's what I was thinking too. I have kicked around the idea of N20 and was told by several guys here and LS1tech that LS1's can handle up to a 150 shot just fine. My goal is eventually to have a mid-size cam, 3500 stall TC, LT's and a 125 shot of N20. That right there should be a fine setup for any LS1 auto to kick some serious tail with.

Lets not fight over this stupid crap huh? LT1's and LS1's can both handle N20. Both can put out serious power with heads/cam. Both are fun as heck to beat up imports with. And both are F-bodies that look cool as sh|t.

Actually antz I do have some experience with the ls1 and nitrous. I worked at a shop last year and my boss has a 98 formula. One of the other mechanics there and myself both run 175-200 shots on our lt-1's and he heard all the hype about the ls1 and said lets do a direct port kit on my car. We told him to jet it at 100 but he said the ls1 could handle the 175 shot just like ours. We put it on and it lasted for a week. He blew the head, melted a piston and cracked the block. Everything on the install was done right with all of the safety items. We talked to dragon race engineering's owner and he told us the most he would run on a stock ls-1 was a 125 shot. With stock head bolts thats all they can handle. I'm not saying they are a piece of sh#t. I love both cars

The LS1 is a great engine that makes plenty of power (modded or not). And so is the LT1! I'd rather get beat by a LT1 then a VTEC honda anyday. In a year or two everybody is going to be in the same conflict with the LS1 and LS2! They are all great engines (LT1,LT4,LS1,LS6,LS2,) that GM has done a great job on.:)

Originally posted by sniffin94
Actually antz I do have some experience with the ls1 and nitrous. I worked at a shop last year and my boss has a 98 formula. One of the other mechanics there and myself both run 175-200 shots on our lt-1's and he heard all the hype about the ls1 and said lets do a direct port kit on my car. We told him to jet it at 100 but he said the ls1 could handle the 175 shot just like ours. We put it on and it lasted for a week. He blew the head, melted a piston and cracked the block. Everything on the install was done right with all of the safety items. We talked to dragon race engineering's owner and he told us the most he would run on a stock ls-1 was a 125 shot. With stock head bolts thats all they can handle. I'm not saying they are a piece of sh#t. I love both cars

A lot of folks are running 150 shots in LS1's and not blowing thier engines. I wouldn't try a 175 on a stock LS1 engine but 150 has been done with lots of success. And the difference between a 150 shot in a LS1 vs a 175 shot in a LT1 is gonna be pretty minimal. Certainly not enough difference to make every LS1 owner send thier car to a junkyard and look for a LT1 to replace it.

Yes that last comment was sarcasm. I just get tired of having LT1 guys tell me that thier cars are superior and mine was a waste of $$$. It gets old.

i agree with darren very well said, thats like the 3.4 guys saying their 3.4 is better than the 3.8, cant we all just get along :p

OH yea? Well my LT5 can beat your LS6, and you'll never beat me cause aliens obducted my ZR1 and put a plasma charger on it, and now it runs 1.3's in the quarter mile :p

Guys....Just quit, we're all F-body guys, lets all get along. We all love Camaro's, they and most of their owners are our bretheren. Let whoever run whatever they want in their cars, fug em, as for any other disputes settle it when you meet on the track (never on the road ;) )

The thread starteder hsyr beat an LS1. So what. Give him his props, and say nice kill. I dont think he is bashing the LS1 just cause he beat it. Dont start making excuses for the LS1 if you werent there or werent driving. He could have had a bad transmission, he coud have been a sucky driver, or hsyr's car just beat that guys car, which was an LS1. I dont think he'd lie about it. Good kill man. Hope you have more to come

As far as the N2O debate, I think you'd see lots more people's opinions if it was in a tech room. Someone start the thread there and have at it!

-Dustin-

Thanx guys for all the good replies :) Hopefully I will be getting a digital video camera in the next little while and I can show you some of my races.

Originally posted by Bersaglieri

The thread starteder hsyr beat an LS1. So what. Give him his props, and say nice kill. I dont think he is bashing the LS1 just cause he beat it. Dont start making excuses for the LS1 if you werent there or werent driving. He could have had a bad transmission, he coud have been a sucky driver, or hsyr's car just beat that guys car, which was an LS1. I dont think he'd lie about it. Good kill man. Hope you have more to come



This is what happens when kills that don't make sense on paper (dyno paper / timeslip paper) happen. I don't think anyone called BS but rather some offered opinions as to why the underdog (car) won. If I beat a 03/04 cobra I would be pleased but under no dilusion would I believe I beat the car. It would be clear that I beat the driver or he had mechanical issues beyond his/her control.

Unless there are more mods to the LT1 then was disclosed or some substantial weight reduction that wasn't mentioned then the LS1 in this case was the faster car. But we all know that the fastest car does not always win. I myself lost a race at the track last week to a 5.0 mustang that ran a 14.1 @ 100 to my 14.5 @ 104. Did he beat my car or did he beat me? Bare in mind this was right after I ran 13.2 @ 106. It was me he beat and my embarassing 2.5 60' time on a horrible launch.

Did hsyr win? I certainly believe him. Did he deserve props? I thought so and told him nice kill and complimented his driving skills. Did the LS1 have a bad driver? probably. Did the LS1 have mechanical issues that caused the result? Maybe but I'm still leaning towards the driver. Did the LT1 with Headers, catback and no mentioned weight reduction beat the LS1 with catback, lid and possibly headers because it was the faster car even with equal drivers? No. But that's ok because a win is a win any way you get it. You just need to be realistic about the ones you know were lopsided victories even if only slightly lopsided.


Originally posted by Bersaglieri


As far as the N2O debate, I think you'd see lots more people's opinions if it was in a tech room. Someone start the thread there and have at it!

-Dustin-

I second that notion. Take the N20 debate to the N20 section here and have a ball with it there.

Again Hsyr, Nice kill.

Originally posted by sniffin94
Actually antz I do have some experience with the ls1 and nitrous. I worked at a shop last year and my boss has a 98 formula. One of the other mechanics there and myself both run 175-200 shots on our lt-1's and he heard all the hype about the ls1 and said lets do a direct port kit on my car. We told him to jet it at 100 but he said the ls1 could handle the 175 shot just like ours. We put it on and it lasted for a week. He blew the head, melted a piston and cracked the block. Everything on the install was done right with all of the safety items. We talked to dragon race engineering's owner and he told us the most he would run on a stock ls-1 was a 125 shot. With stock head bolts thats all they can handle. I'm not saying they are a piece of sh#t. I love both cars Your talkin of one specific case, not enough to label them not being able to handle nos, and every mehanic has there own opinions and always thinks theres is right...ive seen it w/ guys that worked on my cars...Ive owned 2 LT1's and for a short time had a LS1...Love them both..IMO if your running anymore then a 125 shot on either your asking for problems somewhere along the way. Seen plently of turbo/blower/nos LS1's w/ a ton of power still running on a stock block w/ no problems...both are great engines and excellent platforms to start w/..Id still take either in a heartbeat

I highly doubt there was anything wrong with his car considering that it only has around 30,000kms on it. For him being such a terrible driver, he got a nice launch on me (damn bald tires :mad: ) But I did certianly pass him and if I would have had a launch like him I would add another 2 car lengths on to my win.

Originally posted by hsyr
I highly doubt there was anything wrong with his car considering that it only has around 30,000kms on it. For him being such a terrible driver, he got a nice launch on me (damn bald tires :mad: ) But I did certianly pass him and if I would have had a launch like him I would add another 2 car lengths on to my win.

I think it's cool that you won. It sounds like you walked him pretty good. You just have to understand it's a little surprising you won by so much against a car with the same gears, tranny and I'm guessing 20 rwhp more then you. But you did so nice job.

Have you gotten any track times with your car? I'm curious to see what you could run in the 1/4 mile.

Originally posted by darrens99formul
I think it's cool that you won. It sounds like you walked him pretty good. You just have to understand it's a little surprising you won by so much against a car with the same gears, tranny and I'm guessing 20 rwhp more then you. But you did so nice job.

Have you gotten any track times with your car? I'm curious to see what you could run in the 1/4 mile.

I have never been to the track but I hopefully will be soon this year, I need new tires first. Also, I doubt he has anywhere near 20rwhp more than me. If you would have been there when I raced it looked like I had 20rwhp more than him. This is a low optioned Z28 as it had non-power windows. I'm guessing it would dyno in the 290-300rwhp range. FWIW I have raced a few 02 T/As M6s on the street and they put up one hell of alot better race than this car did. I pulled on this guy, but I didn't pull at all on the bone stock 02 T/As.

Originally posted by hsyr
I have never been to the track but I hopefully will be soon this year, I need new tires first. Also, I doubt he has anywhere near 20rwhp more than me. If you would have been there when I raced it looked like I had 20rwhp more than him. This is a low optioned Z28 as it had non-power windows. I'm guessing it would dyno in the 290-300rwhp range. FWIW I have raced a few 02 T/As M6s on the street and they put up one hell of alot better race than this car did. I pulled on this guy, but I didn't pull at all on the bone stock 02 T/As.

Actually I'm pretty sure he had at least 20 rwhp on you. Maybe more. A 01 or 02 Z28 M6 is gonna dyno anywhere from 300-310 rwhp bone stock. Remember it has LS6 intake so it'll dyno higher then the 98-00 models. Even at 300 you can add 10 for a Lid and 7 for a catback. That's 317 RWHP to probably 295-300 from your car. Thats right around 20 RWHP more. I'm sure it didn't feel like that during that race though (lol).

Get to the track and see what your beast traps. You might have a real strong LT1 on your hands.

When I had my 94 m6 Z my mods were cold air, flowmaster exhaust, MAF, free mods and some suspension work. I was either hanging with or beating the LS1's that I ran. I also learned that a lot of camaro owners with an m6 can't drive worth a ****. So that kindof makes you wonder how your car will actually hang. I have nothing against the LS1 I have just always liked the LT1's.:)

I'm getting real sick of SOME of the LS owners that act like an LT1 can't beat an LS1. I smoked an LS1 by more than 3 cars and he had an exhaust.....so here comes the LS1 owners telling me he couldn't drive, yet he was driving an auto and I myself got no traction off the line and still then pulled on him and didn't stop. We also raced another time from a roll and I still pulled on him. We pulled over in the gas station and talked, popped hoods, he said I was the first LT1 to beat him and he thought my car was badass. He didn't give me the typical online LS1 owners bs excuses he admitted I was just straight up faster. Although he said he had LTs and intake to still put on so im sure that'll open up his car alot.

Originally posted by Jake77444
I'm getting real sick of SOME of the LS owners that act like an LT1 can't beat an LS1. I smoked an LS1 by more than 3 cars and he had an exhaust.....so here comes the LS1 owners telling me he couldn't drive, yet he was driving an auto and I myself got no traction off the line and still then pulled on him and didn't stop. We also raced another time from a roll and I still pulled on him. We pulled over in the gas station and talked, popped hoods, he said I was the first LT1 to beat him and he thought my car was badass. He didn't give me the typical online LS1 owners bs excuses he admitted I was just straight up faster. Although he said he had LTs and intake to still put on so im sure that'll open up his car alot.

I know this is hard for some people to deal with but the LS1 has about a 40 RWHP advantage and a better head design which makes more power at higher rpm's. Can a LT1 beat a LS1? Of course they can and they do when they have enough mods to make up the difference. I see a lot of LT1 over LS1 kill stories that no one ever questions and everyone gives props. But those are the ones that make sense on paper. A LT1 with all bolt-ons beating a bone-stock LS1 isn't going to raise too many eyebrows. And a heads/cam LT1 is certainly gonna destroy it's fair share of LS1's stock or bolt-on without question.

But it's the stories like "I have a A4 LT1 with cutout and CAI and I put three car lengths on a LS1 with catback only that make people question the race. Think about that example. LT1 with lets say 255 RWHP and we can add lets say 20 RWHP for cutout and CAI to bring him up to 275 RWHP (a generous estimate I think). Now lets say it was a 02 Z28 A4 he raced. We'll guess 290 RWHP to be on the low side and he gained lets say 8 RWHP from the exhaust. That brings the LS1 to 298 RWHP. Now the LT1 is claiming a large margin of victory over a car (forget it's a LS1 for the moment) that has 23 RWHP more, makes peak power at 3500+ rpm's, has the same or very close to the same gears and has no weight disadvantage to offset anything.

Sorry but there is something more to a story like that other then "I destroyed him because my car is just faster." That would be like me saying I pulled a car length on a 03 cobra on the highway from 60-120. If I ever did it would be because of driver error or mechanical malfunction. I clearly don't have the RWHP to hang with a SC cobra on the highway under any legitimate circumstances.

If a races outcome looks right (which about 75% I'd say do) I give props without question. But when I see one that looks off for whatever reason I'm gonna question it no matter what engine or models are in question. Lopsided victories happen all the time. The number one cause is human error behind the wheel. We all need to be realistic sometimes on when we beat a car and when we beat a driver.

I've raced many LS1's with equal, and sometimes more, mods than me and I haven't had too many problems.

Your logic leaves out one major factor when it comes to racing from a dig --- TORQUE!

The LT1 has it in abundance down low and will usually (with traction) step out on an LS1 from a stop leaving the LS1 playing catch-up, assuming both drivers are equal.

Marty

Originally posted by 97ChameleonTA
I've raced many LS1's with equal, and sometimes more, mods than me and I haven't had too many problems.

Your logic leaves out one major factor when it comes to racing from a dig --- TORQUE!

The LT1 has it in abundance down low and will usually (with traction) step out on an LS1 from a stop leaving the LS1 playing catch-up, assuming both drivers are equal.

Marty

Very true but the LS1 has an abundance of torque up high (3500 rpms+). So if your talking a dig to a 1/8 mile race or 85ish mph then I agree and see your point . But if your talking about 1/4 mile races or highway runs then that argument actually works in favor of the LS1 assuming equal or greater RWHP and equal drivers.

In this particular case they went from a dig to 120mph. That is over a 1/4 of a mile run because both these cars will not be trapping that high obviously. So the LT1 jumping out a car or two out of the gate did not surprise me. But holding that lead and pulling on a LS1 that would have more RWHP, same gears, ect did surprise me because this wasn't a heavily modded LT1 nore was this a stock LS1. The two cars should have been a close race to 120 but equal drivers should get the LS1 there first. But in this particular case Hsyr was the superior driver (IMO) and he deserved to win.

We are making this a LS1 vs LT1 thing and it's really not. My position would be the same if we were talking a stock GT claiming a landslide vicory over a LT1 with CAI and catback. My position would be the same if we were talking about a LS1 with catback and lid claiming to have put the smackdown on a stock 03 cobra. My position would be the same if we were discussing a C5 Vette with a few minor mods destroying a Z06.

It's still a good kill. It's just a good driver kill in this particular case rather then a vehicle kill.

nice kill.

why must all the Young Sherlock Holmes pop out everytime there's a kill?

<== LS1 owner.

Originally posted by gt40
nice kill.

why must all the Young Sherlock Holmes pop out everytime there's a kill?

<== LS1 owner.

:eek:

Unfortunately I'm not so young (assuming of course you were referring to me). Especially for this board which seems to have a high population of teenage and college aged young adults while I have more gray hairs then I care to admit.

It's cool. I like Sherlock Holmes books so maybe it did have an influence :think:

Seriously though it was a good kill and I gave him props.

Originally posted by darrens99formul
:eek:

Unfortunately I'm not so young (assuming of course you were referring to me)..

i'm referring to all youse biatches. :D

People seem to get it stuck in their heads that if car 'A' has xxxrwhp, and car 'B' has xxrwhp more, then car 'B' will win. But it doesn't always work that way, unless of course we lived in perfect world, which we don't. People say that comparing flow #'s for heads to decide which car will go faster is stupid because there are so many other variables to consider. Same with rwhp #s. Look at that one car on this board with 452rwhp on a stock bottom end. Doesn't he only trap like 117MPH? Then you see other cars on here with around 420rwhp trapping 119MPH. Argue dyno #'s all you want, but there is more to it that wins races than HP :alert:

Originally posted by hsyr
People seem to get it stuck in their heads that if car 'A' has xxxrwhp, and car 'B' has xxrwhp more, then car 'B' will win. But it doesn't always work that way, unless of course we lived in perfect world, which we don't. People say that comparing flow #'s for heads to decide which car will go faster is stupid because there are so many other variables to consider. Same with rwhp #s. Look at that one car on this board with 452rwhp on a stock bottom end. Doesn't he only trap like 117MPH? Then you see other cars on here with around 420rwhp trapping 119MPH. Argue dyno #'s all you want, but there is more to it that wins races than HP :alert:

I agree there is way more to a race then just RWHP but for F-bodies it is the biggest factor with driving skill and weight a close second and third (traction of course is 1.5 when racing from a dig). I have no problem believing a 452rwhp car trapped slightly less then a 420rwhp car. But you would have to ask why that happened. Different track elevations could be one reason. Different race weight is another. Different weather is yet another. I myself trapped 103 in humid 90 degree weather but pulled off a 106.74 trap in 55 degree weather at the same track with the same mods.

But when your racing someone on the street or at a track then your obviously at the same elevation and same weather. That only leaves the rwhp, gears and driving skills. I'm assuming you were both relatively close in raceweight (and correct me if I'm wrong on that like he had passengers or you have weight reduction not mentioned). You had the same gears as both were 3.42's. He had the rwhp advantage but not anything catastophic. Any way you look at it the race should have been close from 0-120 with equal launches and shifting. But the fact that you anialated him means you had superior driving/racing skills. That is a very good thing because that means you have the tools to get the most out of your car when you run it.

You owned that LS1 in that race and I'm sure it won't be the last. I'd like to see you put a CAI in that beast and run it at a track in cool weather. No sarcasm. I'm thinking you would have a real nice ET and trap if the launch goes well.

I apologise if it sounded like I was dumping on you because it was not my intention.

Originally posted by darrens99formul
I agree there is way more to a race then just RWHP but for F-bodies it is the biggest factor with driving skill and weight a close second and third (traction of course is 1.5 when racing from a dig). I have no problem believing a 452rwhp car trapped slightly less then a 420rwhp car. But you would have to ask why that happened. Different track elevations could be one reason. Different race weight is another. Different weather is yet another. I myself trapped 103 in humid 90 degree weather but pulled off a 106.74 trap in 55 degree weather at the same track with the same mods.

But when your racing someone on the street or at a track then your obviously at the same elevation and same weather. That only leaves the rwhp, gears and driving skills. I'm assuming you were both relatively close in raceweight (and correct me if I'm wrong on that like he had passengers or you have weight reduction not mentioned). You had the same gears as both were 3.42's. He had the rwhp advantage but not anything catastophic. Any way you look at it the race should have been close from 0-120 with equal launches and shifting. But the fact that you anialated him means you had superior driving/racing skills. That is a very good thing because that means you have the tools to get the most out of your car when you run it.

You owned that LS1 in that race and I'm sure it won't be the last. I'd like to see you put a CAI in that beast and run it at a track in cool weather. No sarcasm. I'm thinking you would have a real nice ET and trap if the launch goes well.

I apologise if it sounded like I was dumping on you because it was not my intention.

No I didn't take it that you were ragging on my car I just wanted to say that whats on paper about a car won't reflect the result at all on the street/track unless all things are perfect, which they won't be.