Lude vs LS1 What you think? (VIDEO) [Archive]

RawAzzLT1

05-10-2004, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
I think if that car really had those mods at the time of the race, they would have posted it on the video. Thats alot more than ported MAF. Come on now :)

Josh

P.S. A Prelude with 9 psi cannot pull 125-130mph traps. A sprayed/cammed M6 LS1 can.

this comment is retarded first of all psi doesnt tell you how much power your are making secondly a 500hp ls1 will not trap 130 it does have h/c and nitrous and makes 500hp..it wont trap 130....

but I guess you are gonna respond.. no I meant to say if it had stage 3 heads a very large cam every bolt on and a 200 shot it would trap 130. :rolleyes:

Fbody owners are the only people I have seen who tries to make their car seem better than it really is by making half statements and leaving gaps and then on top of it making more misinformmed comments about another car he knows nothing about... "an ls1 will trap 130 with h/c and nitrous.... no matter what h/c and how little of a shot".... "oh yeah and um...PSI is a direct indication of HP output... no matter what turbo.. its all the same output per PSI.."

Oracle17

05-10-2004, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by RawAzzLT1

Fbody owners are the only people I have seen who tries to make their car seem better than it really is by making half statements and leaving gaps and then on top of it making more misinformmed comments about another car he knows nothing about...

I like all cars, especially an ls1 z28 and hondas. However, even though we all like to pump up the f-bodies and exaggerate and berate other cars on this forum, your comment on misinformation and ignorance would be better directed at import owners.

Go to a party with a bunch of young and zealous import owners and listen to the bull**** they spew.

RawAzzLT1

05-10-2004, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Oracle17
I like all cars, especially an ls1 z28 and hondas. However, even though we all like to pump up the f-bodies and exaggerate and berate other cars on this forum, your comment on misinformation and ignorance would be better directed at import owners.

Go to a party with a bunch of young and zealous import owners and listen to the bull**** they spew.

Ricers spew BS from inexperience, and lack of knowlegde.they actually beleive thier theories(yeah a v8 has more cylinders but its heavier so it must be slower) most ricers are little punks under 20 years old. but most fbody owners are older and more experienced. thier BS comes from insecurity. if hondas werent doing what they do now, nobody would be talking about them. i mean if a car is running 17's then its no threat to you is it? but when its running 11's on a internally stock motor with a turbo and bolt ons for less than 5k total. and still get great gas milage when not in boost it seems to bring out the worse in fbody. owners I wanna give an example of what I mean. This (http://www.ericksracing.com/greenmonster.htm) car is running z06's times on 10 psi on a internally stock motor and tranny. that is by no means the most impressive thing out there. but all this "should" cost around $4500-$6000 car included ( all this varies from price paid for the car and choice of turbo and intercooler used) so now we have a car running this fast for the price most people payed for thier stock cars. so its now a threat . really if it wasnt a threat why talk about it?

" yeah but If the ls1 had a turbo...."

NBS4

05-10-2004, 11:31 AM

"At 100mph he had em by a car brian"

Why do the Import guys seem to stop at 100 or less? I had a guy in an NSX today race me to 60mph and then threw his flashers on. :confused:

87camracer

05-10-2004, 12:25 PM

COMNBYU

05-10-2004, 01:34 PM

The mods on the Z are straight BS, OR that Honda had more than they are telling. And whats to say they don't? If they said all the LS1 had was ported MAF on the vid, then what's to say the Honda didn't have a built motor with turbo + N2O?? Think about it, just pointing out the obvious possibilities...

I've beat more than my fair share of turbo Honda/Acuras in my 13.2 Nissan...please. They're NOT THAT FAST.

I'll let you fellas know how my next race with one goes. It just so happens that a buddy of mine has a '95 Civic w/ GSR swap and T3 running 10psi. He just got his turbo kit on a couple of weeks ago and had it tuned. We are both friends and he just wants to see how it would fair against my ride, me on spray, him on boost.

The only thing I've changed on my car is bumped the shot up to a 100. It's prolly a 12.9/13.0 car like it sits on radials. I'll let you all know how it goes down...

Jon

87camracer

05-10-2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by COMNBYU
The mods on the Z are straight BS, OR that Honda had more than they are telling. And whats to say they don't? If they said all the LS1 had was ported MAF on the vid, then what's to say the Honda didn't have a built motor with turbo + N2O?? Think about it, just pointing out the obvious possibilities...

I've beat more than my fair share of turbo Honda/Acuras in my 13.2 Nissan...please. They're NOT THAT FAST.

I'll let you fellas know how my next race with one goes. It just so happens that a buddy of mine has a '95 Civic w/ GSR swap and T3 running 10psi. He just got his turbo kit on a couple of weeks ago and had it tuned. We are both friends and he just wants to see how it would fair against my ride, me on spray, him on boost.

The only thing I've changed on my car is bumped the shot up to a 100. It's prolly a 12.9/13.0 car like it sits on radials. I'll let you all know how it goes down...

Jon

you cant honestly be serious. you are calling BS on mods THEY did to the camaro?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. a dyno sheet was already posted. and if you look in the file name it even says its a camaro dyno sheet. please try harder next time.

COMNBYU

05-10-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer
you cant honestly be serious. you are calling BS on mods THEY did to the camaro?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. a dyno sheet was already posted. and if you look in the file name it even says its a camaro dyno sheet. please try harder next time.

Re-read the post . Prefferably starting from the "OR" in the first sentence on after...

Jon

87camracer

05-10-2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by COMNBYU
Re-read the post . Prefferably starting from the "OR" in the first sentence on after...

Jon

lets speak hypothetically here for a minute.

that prelude is prollymaking 250-300whp or so and weighs in around 2700 lbs. that ls1 is pushing 400rwhp and weighs prolly close to 3600 lbs. there is no reason why the prelude SHOUNDLT pull that ls1 on the highway like that. and before you call BS on makin those numbers, you may wanna have a look around on honda-tech.com and see what kind of numbers a boosted stock prelude is going to make. hell even look at the dyno sheet on the site that lude is from. i can PROMISE you 100% that if the lude had a built motor, he would have pulled about 3 times as many cars. even when the camaro sprayed it would have been one sad race.

*EDIT* the race only lasted to 100 because it was over. the camaro was already about 1-2 cars behind and it wasnt gonna catch up.. me personally, i would have kept going just to further the embarassment. but thats just me.

dist0rtion_69

05-10-2004, 03:28 PM

"this comment is retarded first of all psi doesnt tell you how much power your are making secondly a 500hp ls1 will not trap 130 it does have h/c and nitrous and makes 500hp..it wont trap 130...."

First of all. The engine is a stock prelude motor. If you told me it had 9 psi on a stock prelude motor, I'd have a fairly good idea how much power it was making. In this case, psi CAN give me an idea how much power its making. Now, if it had ported head, cams, other modifications, or no type of car was listed.. wellll .. then maybe your statement would be true. Not only that, but it TELLS you in the video how much power its making. Thats not enough power to run anywhere near the 125mph+ traps your friends car should run.

"but I guess you are gonna respond.. no I meant to say if it had stage 3 heads a very large cam every bolt on and a 200 shot it would trap 130."

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. Get a life. You obviously took my statement of Cammed/Sprayed ls1s = 125-130, and picked the very highest number (130) because you wanted to argue. Nice. I'm sure you argue about everything with everybody and try to FIND things to argue about. Please take a visit to www.ls1tech.com. There are several cars in the 125-130 range as I stated, and perhaps you could learn something. The 130 does happen to be a pretty wild setup in most cases. But common sense would tell you 125-130 means that 125 would be less wild than 130 in most cases. FYI.. the fastest heads/cam ls1 car in the country traps 130.6 with a 228/228 cam, stage 2 heads and NO nitrous. Loser. *wink*
If you don't think a cammed/sprayed ls1 car is capable of 125-130 mph, just go read. There are tons in the 126,127,128 range.. and in several cases up to 130 and past depending upon setup. Your friends car obiviously is pretty hardcore. Running slicks with a 100 wet shot and a decent cam with weight reduction, a 10 second slip is not uncommon. Have a nice day. If your going to argue about my statement, at least take time to try and prove it wrong first.

Fbody owners are the only people I have seen who tries to make their car seem better than it really is by making half statements and leaving gaps and then on top of it making more misinformmed comments about another car he knows nothing about... "an ls1 will trap 130 with h/c and nitrous.... no matter what h/c and how little of a shot".... "oh yeah and um...PSI is a direct indication of HP output... no matter what turbo.. its all the same output per PSI.."

I actually know alot about hondas. ;) Asshat. You are making an assumption that I don't to even argue about this. Get a life. You can't make arguments like yours, when your talking about something you don't know about.. and thats me. It's obvious that for whatever reason you argue more than any woman I've seen in my life. Grow some balls.
The truth is several cars with heads/cam trap over 125 WITHOUT nitrous and with smaller cams than your friends. Hell, John Raughammer trapped 124mph with a 224/224 cam 3-4 years ago. You have NO clue what your talking about. And as for the last comment, I've already answered that above. Nobody ever stated 9 psi = so much set horsepower. You obviously are just trying to find something to argue about.. You succeeded in looking like a jackass.

Josh

dist0rtion_69

05-10-2004, 03:38 PM

A prelude with driver, and added weight of turbo/piping/intercooler is definately more than 2600lbs. Probably a bit over 3000.

Josh

KamaroL98

05-10-2004, 03:55 PM

If the honda was stock with just 9psi And the camaro had heads, cam, and nitrous on that then the LS1 would have won bad no contest unless it was wayyyyy out of tune or something. Based on some of my past experience running a few turbo hondas, i would have to say its a stock LS1 with a 'little' dry shot.

I can believe he was on motor that first run where the honda won and on nitrous that second run where he pulled two cars. From a roll the turbo 4 banger would run better from a roll the higher mph they start from.

When my car was 100% stock except for like gears, catback, and lid i ran an Acura with a built bottom end pushing like 15-20psi cant remember how much becaus i ran it alot of times dureing his different stages of modding from a stop and pulled like 5 cars and all i had was a 150 shot. From a roll i raced his buddies car which was very similiar to his from a 50 roll and only pulled 3 cars. These guys had built bottom ends, head work, good turbos and over 9psi. I was at a shop where this same group put a turbo on a 'stock' honda and it would be lucky to see 13s. Their is alot of tuneing and everything to take into consideration with putting a turbo on a car liek that, some can come out complete turds and come can roll of right.

gt40

05-10-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
A prelude with driver, and added weight of turbo/piping/intercooler is definately more than 2600lbs. Probably a bit over 3000.

Josh

well first you can't count the driver, because the Z/28 ain't gonna drive by itself either. so if you add a 200 lb driver in the Prelude, then you have to do the same to the Z/28.

turbo piping is not that much weight. the manifold is just an inverted header, so it's the same weight almost...might even be lighter if the stock header is iron and you're swapping to alluminum....then you got some extra pipes connecting to the turbo. maybe 150-200 lbs for everything including intercooler.

gt40

05-10-2004, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
First of all. The engine is a stock prelude motor. If you told me it had 9 psi on a stock prelude motor, I'd have a fairly good idea how much power it was making. In this case, psi CAN give me an idea how much power its making. Josh

what about the size of the turbo? do you know what turbo it is? how about the size of the intercooler and the amount of timing and the type gas? if he's running race gas, has a big intercooler....therefore can run alot more timing, wouldn't this swing the HP significantly at the same PSI vs. 93 octane, no intercooler and lots of timing retard?

COMNBYU

05-10-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer
lets speak hypothetically here for a minute.

that prelude is prollymaking 250-300whp or so and weighs in around 2700 lbs. that ls1 is pushing 400rwhp and weighs prolly close to 3600 lbs. there is no reason why the prelude SHOUNDLT pull that ls1 on the highway like that. and before you call BS on makin those numbers, you may wanna have a look around on honda-tech.com and see what kind of numbers a boosted stock prelude is going to make. hell even look at the dyno sheet on the site that lude is from. i can PROMISE you 100% that if the lude had a built motor, he would have pulled about 3 times as many cars. even when the camaro sprayed it would have been one sad race.

*EDIT* the race only lasted to 100 because it was over. the camaro was already about 1-2 cars behind and it wasnt gonna catch up.. me personally, i would have kept going just to further the embarassment. but thats just me.

A "stock" Prelude on its best day might see 150-160whp. So you're saying with nothing but a turbo, he's increased WHP by 100-150??? Sorry...

As has already been stated, you might want to take a stroll over to LS1.com and do some research. There are MANY H/C NA LS1s in the 10s trapping 125+. Then you're talking about spray on top of that.

I've got a friend with a '00 SS A4 with JUST cam and bolt-ons who runs consistent 11.5s @ 120ish.

You want to talk hypothetically??? Let's talk REALISTICALLY. No stock motored H22 w/ boost is gonna trap even 120.

Case CLOSED;)

Jon

87camracer

05-10-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by COMNBYU
A "stock" Prelude on its best day might see 150-160whp. So you're saying with nothing but a turbo, he's increased WHP by 100-150??? Sorry...

prove me wrong. with MULTIPLE links.

As has already been stated, you might want to take a stroll over to LS1.com and do some research. There are MANY H/C NA LS1s in the 10s trapping 125+. Then you're talking about spray on top of that.

the cam in question here is a 228R. i would take a guess its similar in size to the TR224. seeing as tho it put out similar numbers as a 224 cam i would say im right also. and the fact remains, ive NEVER seen a tr224 cam and heads car with an m6 run a 10 anything NA. i will stick to that until proven wrong.

I've got a friend with a '00 SS A4 with JUST cam and bolt-ons who runs consistent 11.5s @ 120ish.

thats funny, i have a friend that went 12.2@ i believe 120 with a turbo civic on a stock motor with bolt ons and NO weight reduction.

You want to talk hypothetically??? Let's talk REALISTICALLY. No stock motored H22 w/ boost is gonna trap even 120.

im gonna take a page from your guys' playbook here and call BS until you prove me wrong with MULTIPLE links to DIFFERENT cars. until then you are full of BS.

Case CLOSED;)

Jon

yes it is.

RawAzzLT1

05-10-2004, 07:49 PM

dist0rtion_69

05-10-2004, 08:32 PM

dist0rtion_69

First of all I chose 130mph because thats what you said I do beleive you are now admiting thats on teh extreme side and was used to exalt the ls1 to make it seem really ****ing good. now here is where I am calling you an idiot. I didnot say or imply ls1's wont trap 125 with heads cam and spray, I my self have done that several times. but I notice how you keep using your lowest number to help adjust your point because you see how you sound. I also like how you came out and directly said that I said. an ls1 wont trap 125 with heads cam and a power adder...

as far as a stock lude on 9psi. it still doesnt tell you at all how much power it will make// here is a quick question.. what what will the following turbos make on a stock prelude at 9psi. an sc61 with a t3 housing and .69 a/r a to4b .54 trim with a .48 a/r. and a t76 with a t4 housing and a .82 exhaust wheel??? answer those questions and tell me how much power.. seeing that turbo size/specs and tune has NOTHING to do with final output. only the PSI.

and to conclude. you asked me to do my reasrch on ls1tech?... have you even got to my level yet? you mod list consist of **** that I consider minor bolt ons suitable for someones little neice I am building a twin turbo ls6, I am already out of your league little boy. if you wanna know anything about cars just send me a PM until then let grown folks argue. btw lemme know how much power those 200mph white face guages added

p.s because I strongly beleive you still dont understand what i said I will use an extreme graphical example of what I am saying..THESE TURBOS will not make the same power pound for pound. 9psi on the bigger one is compressing a larger amount of air. do u understand that?

I said 125-130.. Its a range.. If I said guys had dicks ranging size 3"-15". That would mean the average dick is still 6". And since your pussy enough to be arguing like a woman, your probably drooling over my analogy.

I don't use my lowest number to prove my point. I already stated H/C cars have trapped 130.. MUCH LESS with spray. Idiot. Please read again, and tell me what part of my last examples you didn't understand. I do however understand not all cars are the same and some will run 125, some will run 130.

I said a rough idea with the turbo. What do you think ones going to make 400rwhp and one 250rwhp numbnuts? I can tell you right now that a stock prelude motor 9 psi isn't going to run with a heads/cam/spray ls1. The end. That isn't even rough idea, thats just common sense.

You are "building a twin turbo ls6" and I'm out of your league? Call me up when you actually get it done.. asswipe.. Everybody and their brother is "building" something. Talk **** after its done, not while you have a turbo laying on the table and want to act like you're a badass.

Again.. my point is.. A heads/cam/spray ls1 would have slaughtered that prelude 9psi on stock engine.. The end. You can continue arguing with yourself about something that you should know the answer too.. However, I would seek therapy with your arguing problem, because you know this is the truth.. and trying to get into whose got the biggest dick arguments over your turbo setup doesn't prove anything other than your just arguing for the sake of argument. You know damn well that prelude doesn't trap 125-130 with 9psi on a stock engine regardless of which turbo you strap on it.

"well first you can't count the driver, because the Z/28 ain't gonna drive by itself either. so if you add a 200 lb driver in the Prelude, then you have to do the same to the Z/28.

turbo piping is not that much weight. the manifold is just an inverted header, so it's the same weight almost...might even be lighter if the stock header is iron and you're swapping to alluminum....then you got some extra pipes connecting to the turbo. maybe 150-200 lbs for everything including intercooler."

My car weighed what you listed WITH driver.. With no weight reduction and all power options. This guy also has some weight reduction modifications. Such as lightass rims.

Josh

cndctrdj

05-10-2004, 09:00 PM

if you listen to the original video it doesn't sound like either car has half the poweer they are saying they do. listen the the cars that ls1 sounds slow the prelude didn't sound like it had much done either.... but thats just my 2 cents

KamaroL98

05-10-2004, 09:09 PM

That still dosent look like a 400+hp Z28 at all in the 1st video. :o It looks like it could be a 400hp camaro on the second video, the civic might run somewhere like high 12s best and the Z28 mid 13s on motor and low 12s on nitrous.... Its very questionable.

So, i asked my buddy whos pushing 28lbs of boost into his acura, i figure he would know about where a stock prelude pushing 9lbs of boost would be. He said a stock lude with 9lbs will have around 220hp and mabey run 13.80s with a mph of like 98-102. :p So i dont believe its just a stock lude with only 9psi.

87camracer

05-10-2004, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
I said 125-130.. Its a range.. If I said guys had dicks ranging size 3"-15". That would mean the average dick is still 6". And since your pussy enough to be arguing like a woman, your probably drooling over my analogy.

I don't use my lowest number to prove my point. I already stated H/C cars have trapped 130.. MUCH LESS with spray. Idiot. Please read again, and tell me what part of my last examples you didn't understand. I do however understand not all cars are the same and some will run 125, some will run 130.

thats fine and dandy but this heads and cam car DIDNT trap 125-130. it makes 400rwhp. unless hes running a completely gutted car there is NO WAY IN HELL he is trapping those speeds. local guys with 420-430 arent trapping that.

I said a rough idea with the turbo. What do you think ones going to make 400rwhp and one 250rwhp numbnuts? I can tell you right now that a stock prelude motor 9 psi isn't going to run with a heads/cam/spray ls1. The end. That isn't even rough idea, thats just common sense.

the fact that you equate a psi number to overall horsepower and trap speed should cancel any arguement you may ever have on this board. 9 psi from a t04e is going to be COMPLETELY different than 9 psi from a T76. end of story. you CANT argue that and if you try to you are a damn moron. you cant realistically judge a car without knowing its full modifications list and knowing about each part. thats like saying all heads and cam ls1s will trap 125-130...errr wait...see how that sounds? what heads? what cam? it could have an ls1 hotcam and a set of stock ls6 heads. fact is you cant name off a generic name for something and expect it to be something special.

You are "building a twin turbo ls6" and I'm out of your league? Call me up when you actually get it done.. asswipe.. Everybody and their brother is "building" something. Talk **** after its done, not while you have a turbo laying on the table and want to act like you're a badass.

you might want to be a little more aware of what you are talking about before you run your mouth off. one of these days thats going to come back and bite you in the ass. plain and simple, DONT TALK SH*T ON SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING OF.

Again.. my point is.. A heads/cam/spray ls1 would have slaughtered that prelude 9psi on stock engine.. The end. You can continue arguing with yourself about something that you should know the answer too.. However, I would seek therapy with your arguing problem, because you know this is the truth.. and trying to get into whose got the biggest dick arguments over your turbo setup doesn't prove anything other than your just arguing for the sake of argument. You know damn well that prelude doesn't trap 125-130 with 9psi on a stock engine regardless of which turbo you strap on it.

again quit with the generic bullsh*t. thats all it is, bullsh*t. "well my modded car will take your modded car" thats what you sound like. well this car with aftermarket heads and cam should be faster than that car with a turbo pushing 9psi. what heads? what cam? what turbo? you leave out way too many details just so your sorry excuse for an arguement holds something ressembling ground. fact is, 9 psi on a 2JZ-GTE with a T88 will make TOTALLY different numbers than a 2jz with a t04e pushing 9 psi. the amount of air the turbo FLOWS will have a greater bearing on performance. and thats not even mentioning the turbos efficiency range. i suggest you actually do research what you are talking about before you talk.

o and your car weighed 3k lbs? what did you take out? or what were you even talking about there?:confused:

87camracer

05-10-2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
That still dosent look like a 400+hp Z28 at all in the 1st video. :o It looks like it could be a 400hp camaro on the second video, the civic might run somewhere like high 12s best and the Z28 mid 13s on motor and low 12s on nitrous.... Its very questionable.

So, i asked my buddy whos pushing 28lbs of boost into his acura, i figure he would know about where a stock prelude pushing 9lbs of boost would be. He said a stock lude with 9lbs will have around 220hp and mabey run 13.80s with a mph of like 98-102. :p So i dont believe its just a stock lude with only 9psi.

so when a honda takes out a camaro both built by the SAME speed shop its BS? i wont even mention the fact that there was a mod list posted in THIS thread containing the camaros mods cuz i guess that list is made up and the camaro was stock.

again psi is irrelevant in this situation. it means NOTHING. its a number. i would also like to know what kind of turbo your buddy is running with 28 lbs of boost and what kind of numbers hes making.

AGAIN, WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL MODS ON THE LUDE, PSI MEANS NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY ZERO.

KamaroL98

05-10-2004, 10:19 PM

Hey, im just saying what my buddy said a stock lude with just 9lbs of boost will do. This group has built some really fast acura/hondas and have been for a long time.

Lude - turbo with 9lbs
Z28- lid and ported Maf

Thats all i saw listed as mods o nthe video...

87camracer

05-10-2004, 10:24 PM

i started to see if this thread contianed the link to the prelude dyno numbers but i decided i would post them anyway. so here it is:

http://www.solid-technology.com/brian/preludedyno.jpg

379whp and 306wtq

now heres the camaro dyno sheet:

http://www.solid-technology.com/dynos/camarodyno.jpg

400rwhp and 393rwtq

thats a difference of 21 whp. but yet the prelude weighs ATLEAST 500 lbs less. i guess the words POWER TO WEIGHT mean nothing to the naysayers in this thread. face it. the camaro lost plain and simple to the prelude. these dyno sheets and the cars overall weight and its powerband prove why.

87camracer

05-10-2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
Hey, im just saying what my buddy said a stock lude with just 9lbs of boost will do. This group has built some really fast acura/hondas and have been for a long time.

Lude - turbo with 9lbs
Z28- lid and ported Maf

Thats all i saw listed as mods o nthe video...

# ompletely Stock Motor
# Solid Technology Custom Turbo Setup:

* SFP Manifold (HPC Ceramic Coated)
* AGP Garrett T3/T04e Turbo (Ceramic Coated)
* Tial 35mm Wastegate
* Custom 2.5 inch Downpipe
* Custom 2.25 inch Intercooler Piping
* 780cc Siemen Deka Injectors
* Turbo XS Type-H Blow Off Valve
* Custom-Spec IRC Intercooler with 24x8x3.5 Spearco Core
* Turbo XS High Performance Boost Controller
* Custom 3-inch Mandrel Exhaust
* Magnaflow 3 Inch Muffler
* AEM Fuel Rail
* C&R Racing Radiator with 11-inch SPAL Fan
* MSD Blaster SS Coil
* NGK Spark Plugs and Magnecore Plug Wires
* Hondata s200 Standalone on Solid Technology chipped P72 ECU
* Aasco Aluminum Flywheel
* ACT HDSS Clutch
* 255lph High Pressure Fuel Pump
* MSD 6A Ignition
* Quaife Limited Slip Differential
* Mickey Thompson 22x8x15 Slicks (old)
* Forbidden Motorsports Short Shifter

KamaroL98

05-10-2004, 10:29 PM

Ok, now how is he achieveing that with just 9lbs of boost? Thats the part alot of people are still cloudy about.

87camracer

05-10-2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
Ok, now how is he achieveing that with just 9lbs of boost? Thats the part alot of people are still cloudy about.

honda motors respond VERY nicely to boost provided you know what the hell you are doing. plus that motor has pretty much any mod you can think of without going internal besides cams and maybe aported head. i personally believe it.

also, like me and geoff have said, 9psi doesnt mean much. what means more is if the turbo is operating in its efficiency range as well as how much air it flows. boost is a measure of resistance the air entering the motor has. thats why a turbo ls1 can run 10psi on a bone stock motor and make 450 theoretical rwhp and then put on ported LQ4 heads and a turbo spec cam as well as say a FAST intake and make 550 theoretical rwhp at 7 psi. the resistance is less therefore it takes less boost pressure to make more hp.

in part the actual flow rate (in CFM) as well as turbo size and efficency means more than actual boost pressure.

KamaroL98

05-10-2004, 10:45 PM

I showed him the video and mod list, and he said the Lude can run best is high 12s with that turbo.. In my opinion it looks like two 13 second cars. I got to believe him, becaus that just dont move like a 400hp camaro. So i feel sorry for him if he had to have a speed shop installe an Air lid for him.

RawAzzLT1

05-10-2004, 11:55 PM

RawAzzLT1

05-10-2004, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
I showed him the video and mod list, and he said the Lude can run best is high 12s with that turbo.. In my opinion it looks like two 13 second cars. I got to believe him, becaus that just dont move like a 400hp camaro.

what about this car. does this look like a low 13 second car or an 11 second link (http://www.h-heaven.com/videos/vettevscivic.mpg)

sorry I just wanted an reason to post that :) facts are facts that z28 makes 400hp. and it got beat by a Prelude on low boost.

KamaroL98

05-11-2004, 12:03 AM

It looked faster then the prelude for sure.

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 12:06 AM

I am amazed out how insecure people are here. someone posts thier fbody running 11 flat. he gets "thats nice, wish my car was running like that, awesome etc.." post a honda running 10.80's and you get "so what? there is a faster camaro out there somewhere. he probably spent 50 grand to do that" Im sorry fbody owners dont even have the maturity to accept these things.

KamaroL98

05-11-2004, 12:16 AM

I hope your not refering to me. I am only talking about the particular prelude in the video that only caught my eye becaus the poster said the camaro had 400+hp and it appears stock to me in the video, dosent squat when it takes off or anything. And even more so after someone who has been workign on hondas/acuras for a long time tells me that set up will get high 12s best, a 400hp LS1 would walk all over a high 12 sec car, like a prelude thats good for 250rwhp.

87camracer

05-11-2004, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
I hope your not refering to me. I am only talking about the particular prelude in the video that only caught my eye becaus the poster said the camaro had 400+hp and it appears stock to me in the video, dosent squat when it takes off or anything. And even more so after someone who has been workign on hondas/acuras for a long time tells me that set up will get high 12s best, a 400hp LS1 would walk all over a high 12 sec car, like a prelude thats good for 250rwhp.

first a 400rwhp camaro wont really squat from a highway roll on. further more we have given you DYNO PROOF as well as a MOD LIST of what that prelude has and what it made. what more can we show you? frankly your "buddy" doesnt know what hes talking about if he believes that boost pressure equates to engine hp.

yellavette

05-11-2004, 12:34 AM

"that prelude is prollymaking 250-300whp or so and weighs in around 2700 lbs. that ls1 is pushing 400rwhp and weighs prolly close to 3600 lbs. there is no reason why the prelude SHOUNDLT pull that ls1 on the highway like that"

You're kidding, right? According to the numbers I found the 98 (don't know what year the car in question is) prelude weighs in at 2900 lbs without passenger. 150 more hp will easily overcome the fbodies weight disadvantage...especially the faster you go where weight matters less and drag co-efficient and frontal become more important.

I've been modding turbo cars for 8 years. I simply don't care what you say, I don't care if the turbo is big enough to stick your head in and the entire intake tract right thru to the heads is coated with that stuff Clark Griswald put on his sled in Xmas Vacation.....9 psi of boost WILL not add 200+ rwhp on a stock 4 cyl. prelude engine. NEVER. There's more to that car if it's making 379 rwhp.

Jason

Originally posted by 87camracer
lets speak hypothetically here for a minute.

that prelude is prollymaking 250-300whp or so and weighs in around 2700 lbs. that ls1 is pushing 400rwhp and weighs prolly close to 3600 lbs. there is no reason why the prelude SHOUNDLT pull that ls1 on the highway like that. and before you call BS on makin those numbers, you may wanna have a look around on honda-tech.com and see what kind of numbers a boosted stock prelude is going to make. hell even look at the dyno sheet on the site that lude is from. i can PROMISE you 100% that if the lude had a built motor, he would have pulled about 3 times as many cars. even when the camaro sprayed it would have been one sad race.

*EDIT* the race only lasted to 100 because it was over. the camaro was already about 1-2 cars behind and it wasnt gonna catch up.. me personally, i would have kept going just to further the embarassment. but thats just me.

dist0rtion_69

05-11-2004, 03:54 AM

[i]the fact that you equate a psi number to overall horsepower and trap speed should cancel any arguement you may ever have on this board. 9 psi from a t04e is going to be COMPLETELY different than 9 psi from a T76. end of story. you CANT argue that and if you try to you are a damn moron. [/B]

I wasn't arguing how much exact horsepower. I'm arguing it gives me a rough idea, enough to where i don't think it could beat a camaro with heads/cam/100 shot. I still think the cars have the exact mods listed on the front page. Why would the author neglect to add in about 200 horsepower worth of mods on the camaro? I think its 9psi on stock prelude motor, z28 with like a few boltons. I do not think the camaro had heads/cam on the first video, and spray ont he second. Is anybody here actually the owner of the site, or owner of either of those cars? If not, I think an email is in order.. because I just don't see it happening.

To the person explaining the obvious about boost on a modified motor. Please read the video. It said, "stock motor". If its a modified motor, it ain't stock. Therefor explaining that is pointless :)

Either way, I just don't see the stock motored prelude with 9 pounds in that video bringing home a high 10- low 11 sec timeslip.

Peace,
Josh

dist0rtion_69

05-11-2004, 04:05 AM

Sean's Camaro 11.18 @ 124.1 1.6x 60ft Albuquerque Slicks 150shot NM Fastest LS1

Sean's Camaro 12.63 @ 110 ?? 60ft Albuquerque DOT Slicks NA

Brian's Prelude 12.71 @ 115.8 1.96 60ft Albuquerque Slicks 11 psi

I'm assuming he raced Sean when he was bolton only. Because 110mph traps would be incredibly terrible for a cammed ls1. Its not even that great for a bolton LS1. Most LS1s can trap 110 with nothing but headers, catback, and a lid. I did it without an LS6 Intake. Some have trapped that with less. Again, I think its pretty apparent that the prelude does NOT run with a heads/cam/sprayed ls1. Its obvious that these videos are outdated. As are your brains.

Josh

87camracer

05-11-2004, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
Either way, I just don't see the stock motored prelude with 9 pounds in that video bringing home a high 10- low 11 sec timeslip.

Peace,
Josh

where are you people getting low 11 high 10s from? that camaro has 400rwhp. thats mid to high 11s on a BEST day. if he sprays then yes he will run low 11s or high 10s. the same goes for the prelude. it makes 20 less whp and weighs several hundred pounds less. it won the first race with the camaro off the bottle and lost the race on the bottle. im not seeing where the arguement is. there is ZERO chance that 379whp in a 3k lb car CANT run faster than a 400rwhp camaro. meaning yes the camaro got walked NA but beat the lude on the bottle. what are you people going to say next? that the camaro could ONLY have a lid and a catback because thats how fast it LOOKS?

COMNBYU

05-11-2004, 10:35 AM

I think it's clear to everyone by now that 87CAMRACER has a secret love affair with the guy driving the Prelude.

I don't think you get it man, I don't care what you/the vid/their website says about the mods/dyno/hp/ETs on those cars. I DON'T CARE. This is the internet buddy, and there's more BS thrown around here than just about anywhere else I can think of.

I got nothing "against" Hondas/imports. You assume that I hate imports and don't know s h i t about them because I don't agree with your BS, and that's simply not the case. I've got lots of friends locally that run imports with all kinds of mods. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know nearly as much about them as I do a good ol' pushrod V8, but I'm learning. I try and read up as much as I can and learn as much as I can.

The simple fact is that I know firsthand what slightly modded/stock b16/18, H22 motors run with a "little" boost. It's nothing impressive.

I'm not arguing HP #s any more. Honda has NEVER produced a Civic/Prelude available in the US from the factory with more than about 200HP. If you did some research you'd know that just about all of the SC/turbo kits available from aftermarket companies figure you'll see about an extra 40-60 HP over stock on your average b16. If that Prelude IS making anywhere near 370+WRHP, there's something he's not telling you.

I'm not saying that the Prelude couldn't make that kind of power. I'm saying that a T3/4, Jackson Racing SC, etc is NOT going to add 100-150WHP on a STOCK H22.

If anyone else here (besides 87CAMRACER) thinks I'm way out of line please step in and correct me...

Jon

87camracer

05-11-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by COMNBYU
I think it's clear to everyone by now that 87CAMRACER has a secret love affair with the guy driving the Prelude.

yeah thats it. you decide that all by yourself? :rolleyes:

I don't think you get it man, I don't care what you/the vid/their website says about the mods/dyno/hp/ETs on those cars. I DON'T CARE. This is the internet buddy, and there's more BS thrown around here than just about anywhere else I can think of.

you are calling BS on something you THINk cant make the number. fact is, there is a mod list and a dyno sheet. yet you still call BS because its something you THINK is BS. i tell you what, you PROVE that its wrong. prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. if you do ill say that i am wrong and we can move on. until that point it would be best for you to quit flapping your lips about somehting you THINK is wrong.

I got nothing "against" Hondas/imports. You assume that I hate imports and don't know s h i t about them because I don't agree with your BS, and that's simply not the case. I've got lots of friends locally that run imports with all kinds of mods. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know nearly as much about them as I do a good ol' pushrod V8, but I'm learning. I try and read up as much as I can and learn as much as I can.

The simple fact is that I know firsthand what slightly modded/stock b16/18, H22 motors run with a "little" boost. It's nothing impressive.

of you do do you? let me equate this to something you may be a bit more familiar with. rob raymer has a single turbo ls1 formula as one of his shop cars. he uses the same turbo kit he offers to the public with the same upgrades that are available to you or i. yet he has made over 200rwhp MORE than ive ever seen any other person with his kit make. why? because HE designed the kit. he built it. he knows how to tune it. hes made almost 200 dyno pulls on that car and its damn near perfect. fact is joe schmoe off the street strapping a t04b or whatever he wants to use on his stock civic and havign it dyno tuned once will NOT make the same numbers as if he would hav eresearched his setup and put together something that will work very well together and spent hundreds of hours tuning it.

I'm not arguing HP #s any more. Honda has NEVER produced a Civic/Prelude available in the US from the factory with more than about 200HP. If you did some research you'd know that just about all of the SC/turbo kits available from aftermarket companies figure you'll see about an extra 40-60 HP over stock on your average b16. If that Prelude IS making anywhere near 370+WRHP, there's something he's not telling you.

again, PROVE IT. we have shown you a mod list AND a dyno sheet proving what the lude makes. yet its still all lies.

I'm not saying that the Prelude couldn't make that kind of power. I'm saying that a T3/4, Jackson Racing SC, etc is NOT going to add 100-150WHP on a STOCK H22.

If anyone else here (besides 87CAMRACER) thinks I'm way out of line please step in and correct me...

Jon

noone is arguing that the car didnt make those numbers on a bone stock motor. there are countless other bolt ons that somehow you are forgetting.

and for the record, i thought you were out of line 3 pages ago but that didnt stop you from posting mindless drivel now did it? :rolleyes:

KamaroL98

05-11-2004, 11:43 AM

Something else i want to bring up, is why the camaro listed something small like a lid and ported MAF which does pretty much nothing, instead of listing his heads/cam, or at least full exhaust that anyone would normially do with a heads and cam package that we couldnt hear... :) That turbo isnt going to make a 380hp or whatever civic with the modifications u listed, like 3 import people with actually fast hondas told me best they give it is 230-250. I guess with its less weight that could run close to a stock LS1 like in the video not a modified one.

dist0rtion_69

05-11-2004, 12:45 PM

I am getting low 11's and high 10's from the fact that the heads/cam/spray camaros usually run that and the prelude was right behind the camaro by a car or two. I then found the site, and the Camaro did indeed only run low 11's. Which means the prelude was close to that.

Peace,
Josh

87camracer

05-11-2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by dist0rtion_69
I am getting low 11's and high 10's from the fact that the heads/cam/spray camaros usually run that and the prelude was right behind the camaro by a car or two. I then found the site, and the Camaro did indeed only run low 11's. Which means the prelude was close to that.

Peace,
Josh

ill be the first to admit that the camaro straight up walked the lude on spray. and off the spray the lude pulled an instant couple of cars when the power to weight played a key roll and then it kind of evened out a little. thats why i personally think that everything on that site is the truth. off the spray that camaro prolly runs high 11s. much the same as what the lude runs. on the bottle i could see it going low 11s.

jthomas

05-11-2004, 01:28 PM

i dunno about the rest of you, but both cars seemed a little slow for those dyno numbers. they bust it at the 1 second mark on the video from what appears to be a 20-25 mph roll and only make it to 100 10 seconds later. i would think that 375-400 hp cars are a bit more capable than that.

KamaroL98

05-11-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
i dunno about the rest of you, but both cars seemed a little slow for those dyno numbers.

Thats becaus they both arent that fast at the time of the video at least.... Those are two turds in the video...

jthomas

05-11-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by KamaroL98
Thats becaus they both arent that fast at the time of the video at least.... Those are two turds in the video...

k... thanks for straightening that out. i have neither the time nor the heart to read through all of the whinging. ;)

gt40

05-11-2004, 02:53 PM

here's what stupid about the whiners on this thread.

when an Fbody is mod to hell and sarcrificing gas mileage (14-17mpg) and risk getting impounded by some states for not running cats in order to make enough power to beat a STOCK Z06...then it's great. oh, and bye-bye to the 10-bolt rearend too.

but when a Prelude that is modified significantly does this to beat a car with much more cubes, then the crying starts.

and a stock Prelude with ATA will put an Fbody to shame in the handling department.

jthomas

05-11-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by gt40

and a stock Prelude with ATA will put an Fbody to shame in the handling department.

in a parking lot, maybe. but under those circumstances, a stock miata would put either to shame.

jthomas

05-11-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by gt40

when an Fbody is mod to hell and sarcrificing gas mileage (14-17mpg) and risk getting impounded by some states for not running cats in order to make enough power to beat a STOCK Z06...then it's great. oh, and bye-bye to the 10-bolt rearend too.

oh, and another thing- an a4, 3.23 geared fbod with drag radials, a 'verter and a 125hp dry shot will more than run with a stock z06, still get good gas milage, be 100% legal and keep the stock 10-bolt intact. all without spending much more than $1500.

87camracer

05-11-2004, 06:06 PM

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by gt40
here's what stupid about the whiners on this thread.

when an Fbody is mod to hell and sarcrificing gas mileage (14-17mpg) and risk getting impounded by some states for not running cats in order to make enough power to beat a STOCK Z06...then it's great. oh, and bye-bye to the 10-bolt rearend too.

but when a Prelude that is modified significantly does this to beat a car with much more cubes, then the crying starts.

and a stock Prelude with ATA will put an Fbody to shame in the handling department.

:bow: know what else is also funny, people keep talking about weight while ignoring the fact that the lude had 2 people in it. a car thats weighs 2900 lbs stock. if only it was a civic instead of a prelude...

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 06:16 PM

Everytime a Honda beats an fbody there are pages of escuses, and bitching. and its always the same things "its just a civic"
it must have cost 40 grand to do that"
"that camaro had no mods"
"what happens if you put the same mods on an fbody"
"my uncles friends daughters boyfriends cousins friends sisters husbands nephew knows a guy with a faster camaro"

are their any mature people left on this site?

jthomas

05-11-2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer
so what happens when you run across one on the highway willing to race? you gonna stop in the middle of the highway and go for a 1/4 of mile from a dig? even on the spray that z06 will walk away from a roll. even a slow roll. a stalled up auto with juice means jack sh*t. it might be quick but its not fast.

some ppl race from a roll, some from a dig. some from both. a ran a fella with a '99 z/28 with only cold air, cat-back and a 120 hp wet shot. he trapped 118 uncorrected on a DA of 2800' and prolly would have done better than his 12.4 if he would have had a better 60 ft (2.2x). it was an m6, though. i doubt he would have much trouble out of a z06 on the highway.

oh, and to your "stalled up auto with juice means jack sh*t" remark- call high 11's anything you want...

87camracer

05-11-2004, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
some ppl race from a roll, some from a dig. some from both. a ran a fella with a '99 z/28 with only cold air, cat-back and a 120 hp wet shot. he trapped 118 uncorrected on a DA of 2800' and prolly would have done better than his 12.4 if he would have had a better 60 ft (2.2x). it was an m6, though. i doubt he would have much trouble out of a z06 on the highway.

um actually he would have. most stock z06s trap 116-118 from what ive seen IN PERSON. i would say maybe a car at he MOST.

oh, and to your "stalled up auto with juice means jack sh*t" remark- call high 11's anything you want...

i will call it whatever i want. i cal 11s at over 130 mph fast. i call high 11s at 113-115 slow for a modded car on juice.

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by yellavette
[B
I've been modding turbo cars for 8 years. I simply don't care what you say, I don't care if the turbo is big enough to stick your head in and the entire intake tract right thru to the heads is coated with that stuff Clark Griswald put on his sled in Xmas Vacation.....9 psi of boost WILL not add 200+ rwhp on a stock 4 cyl. prelude engine. NEVER. There's more to that car if it's making 379 rwhp.

Jason [/B]

preludes are 2.2 litres, GSR's are 1.8 litres. this GSR made 449whp on 14 psi on 9:1 compression link (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=480866)

but an H22 cant make 379whp on 9psi with stock 10.0 compression?? :confused:

maybe you need to mod turbo cars for 8 more years.

jthomas

05-11-2004, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer

i will call it whatever i want. i cal 11s at over 130 mph fast. i call high 11s at 113-115 slow for a modded car on juice.

and what does your car run?

87camracer

05-11-2004, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
and what does your car run?

i dont see what this matters at all. your done.

jthomas

05-11-2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer
i dont see what this matters at all. your done.

i'm done, eh? not quite.

it matters because i want to know if you think your car is quick 'n slow or quick 'n fast or whatever. i'm just trying to see the other person's arguement by gauging his perspective is all. do tell...

87camracer

05-11-2004, 06:58 PM

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
i'm done, eh? not quite.

it matters because i want to know if you think your car is quick 'n slow or quick 'n fast or whatever. i'm just trying to see the other person's arguement by gauging his perspective is all. do tell...

no, you want to know what he runs for the same reason everyone wants to know what anyone runs in an argument. to pick part his numbers to use it against them. this topic has offcially gone off tangent...

honda beats fbody..
fbody owners are mad/insecure/threatened by it..
fbody owners trash talk to feel better...
somebody who respect fast cars in General steps up and says something in defense..
fbody owner sees it as an act of treason..
fbody owner commences childish name calling on said person, then wants to know what car he drives or how fast it is so he can know what specfically he needs to say to try to pick apart that person...

this happens EVERY single time a honda beats an fbody. it never fails.

when corvette beats fbody on this site its :bow:
when a civic does it its :mad:
grow up.

BLACKBIRD8200

05-11-2004, 07:25 PM

Who cares it's a prelude for gods sake!! All ricers try to do is get as fast as a V8. In my city all i see is wanna be fast 4 bangers! Now some are fast and that's great give him his props!! But you gotta understand we don't care about beating a 4, 6 banger! We want the vettes,vipers and so on. All the ricers come looking for us and try picking a fight to see what their car can do, we don't look for them!!So let him have his victory cause in the end all he has is a ugly (fast) Prelude! And in the back of his head he's really saying I WISH I HAD AN CAMARO/TRANS AM!!:usa: :metal:

jthomas

05-11-2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by RawAzzLT1
no, you want to know what he runs for the same reason everyone wants to know what anyone runs in an argument. to pick part his numbers to use it against them. this topic has offcially gone off tangent...

honda beats fbody..
fbody owners are mad/insecure/threatened by it..
fbody owners trash talk to feel better...
somebody who respect fast cars in General steps up and says something in defense..
fbody owner sees it as an act of treason..
fbody owner commences childish name calling on said person, then wants to know what car he drives or how fast it is so he can know what specfically he needs to say to try to pick apart that person...

this happens EVERY single time a honda beats an fbody. it never fails.

when corvette beats fbody on this site its :bow:
when a civic does it its :mad:
grow up.

you assume that you know what my motives are (and you are quite wrong, btw). well, just so that i don't assume things, how in the hell did you get all of that above bull**** out of what i have posted here?? you are taking some pretty big leaps, buddy. and i need to grow up?? how am i being childish? direct quotes for my posts to support your point of view please so that no words get put into my mouth.

and i feel pretty sure that 87camracer can speak for himself as opposed to having someone else to take up for him, don't you think? i asked a pretty simple question and i want to know what he drives that he can call ANY 11 second car in any aspect of it's straight line performance slow. everything is relative... i'm trying to get his perspective. how is that wrong?

jthomas

05-11-2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer
FYI, my car is slow. very slow. and yes you are done you have nothing left to argue.

surely not as slow as my brother's I4 ford ranger pickup, correct? how would you feel and what would your reaction be to him if he told you how slow your car is?

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD8200
Who cares it's a prelude for gods sake!! All ricers try to do is get as fast as a V8.

whats the definition of a ricer? because it sounds like you are saying its someone who drives a honda.

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 08:47 PM

jthomas

Im not calling you childish or telling you to grow up per se. my comment was a general one. it was directed to those that it applies to. honda beats an fbody and the fbody owners show thier maturity level. this thread is an example so are the other dozens ones in the archive. juvenile name calling and flaming and bashing etc all because a honda beats a camaro. I just dont see why someone cant just congradulate and move on to another thread.

BLACKBIRD8200

05-11-2004, 09:49 PM

If a honda wants to race me then lets go! one of us is going to win. If i do then what (OH YES I JUST KICKED A HONDA'S ASS) No don't think so i just kept driven. Now turn the tables the honda kicks my ass what do you get (him running his mouth on how his little 4 banger just beat my ass) They come looking for trouble, and thats what they find!!Not that if i do get beat i'm all pissed. I'm cool with that, theirs always somebody faster weather it's a honda or a vette, But it always the ricers that run their mouths, they have some thing to prove not me.And by ricers i mean young kids with a nos sticker and big wheel on their s mom's honda,that would be lucky to do the 1/4 in 20 seconds

If you built a car from nothing to something and you can run with the V8-V10 then good for you!! Just don't try to race every car you see!
If and when i do get beat by 4,6 banger, when the race is over i'll give him a thumbs up and congradulate him, as a vette or viper would do for me!!

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD8200
If a honda wants to race me then lets go! one of us is going to win. If i do then what (OH YES I JUST KICKED A HONDA'S ASS) No don't think so i just kept driven. Now turn the tables the honda kicks my ass what do you get (him running his mouth on how his little 4 banger just beat my ass) They come looking for trouble, and thats what they find!!Not that if i do get beat i'm all pissed. I'm cool with that, theirs always somebody faster weather it's a honda or a vette, But it always the ricers that run their mouths, they have some thing to prove not me.And by ricers i mean young kids with a nos sticker and big wheel on their s mom's honda,that would be lucky to do the 1/4 in 20 seconds

If you built a car from nothing to something and you can run with the V8-V10 then good for you!! Just don't try to race every car you see!
If and when i do get beat by 4,6 banger, when the race is over i'll give him a thumbs up and congradulate him, as a vette or viper would do for me!!

Good spirit.

As for me, when I was building my civic I knew where I was going with it and I told myself I wouldnt race fbodys out of respect. but what actually happend was.... I was a moving target. just minding my own business I would get guys in stangs and fbodys wanting to instill into me who owns the streets, even though I didnt rev or cut anyone off or anything to draw attention. I actually found out who owned the street each time.. me..;) I know take much delight in racing v8 guys because its a much more rewarding feeling when you wipe the cocky smirk of thier faces. much more rewarding that beating a clueless ricer in the ws6. my car is black so is my intercooler and my blow off valve is set to soft. so it just appears and sounds like near stock all motor honda. until I get on the throttle at which point its too late boost is a wonderfull thing. its fun, the car is fun. I wouldnt give up either car.

hsyr

05-11-2004, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by RawAzzLT1
preludes are 2.2 litres, GSR's are 1.8 litres. this GSR made 449whp on 14 psi on 9:1 compression link (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=480866)

but an H22 cant make 379whp on 9psi with stock 10.0 compression?? :confused:

maybe you need to mod turbo cars for 8 more years.

A H22 motor can make 379whp on 9psi with 10.0 compression but it won't do it for very long, like 5-10,000miles. Believe me I was into imports very much so until I bought my Z28. Turbo Honda's can be made very fast but they require what just about every other non-turbo vehicle from factory does, and that is a built bottom end. I think what everyone on here is trying to say that to get a Honda to run with a V8 rwd car, it needs more major mods to get the job done plain and simple. Sure that H22 motor made that kind of power but put a turbo on a LS1 with 9psi and you will have what, 500rwhp atleast. Probably around 550rwhp which has been proven time and time again enough for 10's in the 1/4 for a fully equiped car with A/C. The motor on it will only last 5-10,000 miles also, but if you want to compare a built V8 with boost and a built I4 with boost, then I don't care what you say, the V8 will spank it everytime. Unless of course the I4 is running a Civic Hatch with 30psi and the V8 is a #3700 pig with only 19psi then it might be a good race.

I can see it now, someone is going to post a reply with a hatch import with boost running 8's in the 1/4 trying to make me sound stupid but I don't care, I seen the light :D

87camracer

05-11-2004, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
you assume that you know what my motives are (and you are quite wrong, btw). well, just so that i don't assume things, how in the hell did you get all of that above bull**** out of what i have posted here?? you are taking some pretty big leaps, buddy. and i need to grow up?? how am i being childish? direct quotes for my posts to support your point of view please so that no words get put into my mouth.

and i feel pretty sure that 87camracer can speak for himself as opposed to having someone else to take up for him, don't you think? i asked a pretty simple question and i want to know what he drives that he can call ANY 11 second car in any aspect of it's straight line performance slow. everything is relative... i'm trying to get his perspective. how is that wrong?

what my car runs doesnt matter at all and is irrelevent to this thread. lets just say it isnt fast. in fact it hasnt moved in 4 days. but thats another thread for another time.

what you neglect to mention is the fact that i NEVER said my car was faster than the 11 second cars i was talking. NOT ONCE EVER. matter-of-factly i said that i give MAJOR respect to a car that runs 11s at 130mph and while i will give a few props to a car that runs 11s at 115 mph it doesnt thrill me like the first car did. why? they both run 11s. hell they could both run the exact same et and i would still rather have the one trapping 130.

let me ask you this. if 2 cars lined up on the street. one is a camaro running 11.57@116mph and the other is a civic running 11.57@130mph, who is going to win the race?

as far as a guy in a ford ranger saying my car is slow, i dont give a sh*t really. i know my car is faster than what his truck will ever be. and i dont really give two sh*ts about what others think of my car.

87camracer

05-11-2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by hsyr
A H22 motor can make 379whp on 9psi with 10.0 compression but it won't do it for very long, like 5-10,000miles. Believe me I was into imports very much so until I bought my Z28. Turbo Honda's can be made very fast but they require what just about every other non-turbo vehicle from factory does, and that is a built bottom end. I think what everyone on here is trying to say that to get a Honda to run with a V8 rwd car, it needs more major mods to get the job done plain and simple. Sure that H22 motor made that kind of power but put a turbo on a LS1 with 9psi and you will have what, 500rwhp atleast. Probably around 550rwhp which has been proven time and time again enough for 10's in the 1/4 for a fully equiped car with A/C. The motor on it will only last 5-10,000 miles also, but if you want to compare a built V8 with boost and a built I4 with boost, then I don't care what you say, the V8 will spank it everytime. Unless of course the I4 is running a Civic Hatch with 30psi and the V8 is a #3700 pig with only 19psi then it might be a good race.

you know boost is a funny thing. nothing is hurt until you start predetonating. THAT is what breaks parts. wanna know what else is funny? boost from a turbo is created by load. NOT rpms. so if your engine isnt expierencing and load or very little you ARENT making boost. guess what? then its an NA motor. mind showing me where the bad reliability comes in?

I can see it now, someone is going to post a reply with a hatch import with boost running 8's in the 1/4 trying to make me sound stupid but I don't care, I seen the light :D

what light is that? an lt1 with headers and a catback? wow thats the light huh? i would rather see darkness.

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 10:34 PM

hysr please explain to me how a properly tuned motor will just fail. do you understand what makes motors blow? its detonation, which is brought on by excess heat, from too much cylinder pressure which can be brought on from heated inlet air(insuffcient intercooler), lack of fuel, too much timing advance etc etc. having higher static compression creates heat which will easily promote detontation. however. all these thinsg can be dealt with by having you air fuel ratio near perfect and enough timing pulled for each pound of boost you run. i.e tuning the car.

a motor will not just fail if there is no detonation. what will happen is pistons rings and bearing with wear faster than it normally (assuming everyone drives as hard as I do) but the motor wont blow what would happen and I mean after thousands and thousands of miles is the piston ring may not seal as well causing you to lose a bit of compression and reducing your power.. basically it would act like a 3rd gen camaro that has 200k original miles on it.. will run but not as strong as when it was new. a properly tuned motor will not last only 5-10k miles I can assure you of that.

Simple process of deduction.. detonation blows motors.. if there is no detonation then what happens to the motor?

hsyr

05-11-2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer

what light is that? an lt1 with headers and a catback? wow thats the light huh? i would rather see darkness.

Wow you sir are a prick. Go find another Honda hatch that runs 9s,10s,11s, or 12s with only $5000 invested in it please. Go make another post about a turbo'd B series Honda motor that runs whatever in the 1/4 on a Camaro site. Sorry I don't have all the money in the world to make my car run 10's, get 30mpg off boost, never break because its a Honda and sound like my dad blowing his nose. Oh wait, that would only cost $5000, I guess I've seen the light now, looser :rolleyes: I never bashed your car but yet you seem to bash mine. Go praise another import that you don't own and try to make yourself feel proud. I hope if you have kids that they turn out to be homosexuals/dikes, your wife gets a sex-change, and you get herpes. Troll :death:

*EDIT*
ANY time you want me to show you the light I will race your POS 91 T/A. What does it run? 15's? Haha, I know of diesel trucks that will make your car look sad :p

hsyr

05-11-2004, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by RawAzzLT1
hysr please explain to me how a properly tuned motor will just fail. do you understand what makes motors blow? its detonation, which is brought on by excess heat, from too much cylinder pressure which can be brought on from heated inlet air(insuffcient intercooler), lack of fuel, too much timing advance etc etc. having higher static compression creates heat which will easily promote detontation. however. all these thinsg can be dealt with by having you air fuel ratio near perfect and enough timing pulled for each pound of boost you run. i.e tuning the car.

a motor will not just fail if there is no detonation. what will happen is pistons rings and bearing with wear faster than it normally (assuming everyone drives as hard as I do) but the motor wont blow what would happen and I mean after thousands and thousands of miles is the piston ring may not seal as well causing you to lose a bit of compression and reducing your power.. basically it would act like a 3rd gen camaro that has 200k original miles on it.. will run but not as strong as when it was new. a properly tuned motor will not last only 5-10k miles I can assure you of that.

Simple process of deduction.. detonation blows motors.. if there is no detonation then what happens to the motor?

Yes I understand what you are saying but sadly there isn't enough good dyno tuners out there that can make everyone's car run great. I'm not saying every motor will go after 5-10,000miles, but I have seen quite a few. I'm glad to see you can have a nice reply unlike 87camracer.

87camracer

05-11-2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by hsyr
Wow you sir are a prick. Go find another Honda hatch that runs 9s,10s,11s, or 12s with only $5000 invested in it please. Go make another post about a turbo'd B series Honda motor that runs whatever in the 1/4 on a Camaro site. Sorry I don't have all the money in the world to make my car run 10's, get 30mpg off boost, never break because its a Honda and sound like my dad blowing his nose. Oh wait, that would only cost $5000, I guess I've seen the light now, looser :rolleyes: I never bashed your car but yet you seem to bash mine. Go praise another import that you don't own and try to make yourself feel proud. I hope if you have kids that they turn out to be homosexuals/dikes, your wife gets a sex-change, and you get herpes. Troll :death:

LMFAO! you know whats funny? you can sit here and bash anyones car all you want. but when someone does it to your car its a whole nother story isnt? when someone does it to your car, hes gonna rott in hell along with his gay children and herpes infected wife. you sir are a hypocrit.

as far as being a troll? whos been here longer ass?:rolleyes:

hsyr

05-11-2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by 87camracer

as far as being a troll? whos been here longer ass?:rolleyes:

Wow you must be better than me. You praise imports but own a 91 T/A. And you have been here a little over a year longer. I guess I should leave since you have superiority over me :lol:

RawAzzLT1

05-11-2004, 11:17 PM

87camracer

05-11-2004, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by hsyr
Wow you must be better than me. You praise imports but own a 91 T/A. And you have been here a little over a year longer. I guess I should leave since you have superiority over me :lol:

um where did i say any of that? i never once told you anything of the sort. yet you can call me a troll? why is that? because i posted about something that you dont believe in? get over yourself buddy. me being here longer than you means nothing other than how im the complete opposite of a troll.

darrens99formul

05-12-2004, 09:20 AM

Never mind this argument is stupid. My original post was deleted. Carry on.

yellavette

05-12-2004, 12:34 PM

Whoever started the thread said it was a stock prelude running 9 psi. How does that relate to a fully built teg motor running 14 psi w/race manifolds, headwork, etc?? It doesn't matter anyway....looks like the threads done.

Jason
Originally posted by RawAzzLT1
preludes are 2.2 litres, GSR's are 1.8 litres. this GSR made 449whp on 14 psi on 9:1 compression link (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=480866)

but an H22 cant make 379whp on 9psi with stock 10.0 compression?? :confused:

maybe you need to mod turbo cars for 8 more years.

RawAzzLT1

05-12-2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by yellavette
I don't see how 449 rwhp at 14 psi on a fully built engine quantifies 379 rwhp at 9 psi on a bone stock engine??? Take away 5 psi from the teg and it'll probably turn 370-380 rw. That's with a fully built engine with a racing manifold....probably headwork (it's not specified in the link), etc...yet the stock lude engine can make the same hp??

Jason

Jason. 379whp at 9psi on whatever turbo he has is not unusual. preludes are supposed to make that much on low boost from any decent turbo. what is it you are questioning? if you dont know much about hondas say that you dont, but dont question something that is supposed to happen when someone who knows tells you it is. look at this thread http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=859265 357 hp at 10psi konig has a small intercooler and turbo I have seen h22's making 470hp on 15psi on 60 trim turbos. 379@9psi is not unusual especially if he is running moore than 18 degrees of advanced timing, which increases hp output per pound expotentially. and btw Mike doesnt have headwork. and he is running a stock intake manifold that 449whp was on a motor that has less compression. ona motor already .4 litres smaller than an h22 which is big difference in these motors. and it wasnt some random link I actually know him in real life.

gt40

05-12-2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
in a parking lot, maybe. but under those circumstances, a stock miata would put either to shame.

let's put this to a test.

i'm in Falls Church, VA....do you want to meet up with your Fbody and i'll get a Prelude?

i'll meet you somewhere in Manassas or so.

gt40

05-12-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
oh, and another thing- an a4, 3.23 geared fbod with drag radials, a 'verter and a 125hp dry shot will more than run with a stock z06, still get good gas milage, be 100% legal and keep the stock 10-bolt intact. all without spending much more than $1500.

well that's exactly what i got, an A4, 3.23 and an NX dry kit.

and a stock Prelude can run with a stock LS1 Fbody if the Prelude sprays.

see the point here?

and your $1500 here is coming in there quite low just to make the Fbody look good.

0711 NX dry kit on Sale, window switch, purge kit, shipped
exact kit i bought from Nitrous Dave
0040 nitrous
0150 bottle warmer
0030 nitrous guage
0740 yank converter
0350 install converter
0300 Nittos DR 16"
0030 mount/balanced
====
2351 total, assume self install on nitrous kit

a) you make it sound like it's only going to cost $1500...what.... are nitrous refills free now?

b) the cost of refilling nitrous will catch up.

c) there's not much respect to spraying nitrous on a stock car. spray it on a built LS1 with heads/cam, then that's a different story. otherwise you're just another Honda on a bigshot.

d) don't make it sound like that stock 10-bolt on drag radials and 125 shot is bulletproof....far from it....even with the converter.

e) 3200 stall converter will F up my gas mileage.....i drove over 25k miles last year and got an average of 19-20 mpg. i'll be looking at 16-17 with a stall and it's going to suck like hell driving in Wash DC bumper to bumper traffic.

gt40

05-12-2004, 01:40 PM

hsyr

05-12-2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by gt40

d) don't make it sound like that stock 10-bolt on drag radials and 125 shot is bulletproof....far from it....even with the converter.

If the car was a M6 then I could see it not lasting but it has been proven MANY times that the stock 10-bolt will take large amounts of HP from an automatic tranny. Nothing is bulletproof.

gt40

05-12-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by RawAzzLT1
. just minding my own business I would get guys in stangs and fbodys wanting to instill into me who owns the streets, even though I didnt rev or cut anyone off or anything to draw attention.

i live in the Wash DC Metro area and we have plenty of Fast & Furious boys around.....and what you're saying here is more true than the other guy saying that Hondas and crap challenging V8s.

it just doesn't happen...well very, very, very rarely it does....they may have tried it once or twice when they first bought their car, but that's about it.....unless they enjoy getting whopped on all the time....by trainlengths.

many times they're afraid to even pass me when i'm just cruising.....and when i approach a light, i don't even take the empty slot because if i do, the Civic guy would be afraid to drive faster than me....so he starts to pace me, which is more annoying.

and when i'm next to a faster car, like a Z06....i get scared just like they do, and i hesitate to pass it....or take off real nice and slow when we are both at pole position at a redlight.

now when they see something in their class, then they do stupid crap (with each other)....but don't we do the same when we run into a formidable foe?

jthomas

05-12-2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by gt40
well that's exactly what i got, an A4, 3.23 and an NX dry kit.

and a stock Prelude can run with a stock LS1 Fbody if the Prelude sprays.

see the point here?

and your $1500 here is coming in there quite low just to make the Fbody look good.

0711 NX dry kit on Sale, window switch, purge kit, shipped
exact kit i bought from Nitrous Dave
0040 nitrous
0150 bottle warmer
0030 nitrous guage
0740 yank converter
0350 install converter
0300 Nittos DR 16"
0030 mount/balanced
====
2351 total, assume self install on nitrous kit

a) you make it sound like it's only going to cost $1500...what.... are nitrous refills free now?

b) the cost of refilling nitrous will catch up.

c) there's not much respect to spraying nitrous on a stock car. spray it on a built LS1 with heads/cam, then that's a different story. otherwise you're just another Honda on a bigshot.

d) don't make it sound like that stock 10-bolt on drag radials and 125 shot is bulletproof....far from it....even with the converter.

e) 3200 stall converter will F up my gas mileage.....i drove over 25k miles last year and got an average of 19-20 mpg. i'll be looking at 16-17 with a stall and it's going to suck like hell driving in Wash DC bumper to bumper traffic.

i'll tell you this much in response to your "just to make the Fbody look good" remark... to all you *******s that want to assume what my intentions are or put words into my mouth- **** you. clear enough?

now, that's out of the way. my intentions were to show that one can get an ls1 fbod well into the 11's and run with/beat a z06 for not much money, stay legal, not ruin your gas milage and keep your 10-bolt. $300 for drag radials, $700 for a nitrous kit and $600 for a 'verter. oops, that's $1600 in parts. sorry. as for you including shipping, tax, install, wheel weights and whatever else... you forgot to include the cost of band-aids for the cuts and scrapes for installing the nitrous yourself.

as for the prelude/ls1 thing. i don't see your point. i don't ever recall stating that a honda on spray can't take an fbody. in street racing it's all about running what you've got. if you loose to a 'lude on spray then you didn't have enough and better luck next time. imports, domestics, whatever...

now, to your other points...

a) noper.... not many hp making mods are gonna stop costing you money after the initial purchase.

b) will catch up to what? also see my response to "a)"

c) i don't give a rat's ass about what other ppl think of my mods. especially if i beat them. but everyone is different, so you have a point.

d) the stock 10-bolt has proven itself many times with a nice verter, good power and nothing stickier than drag radials. while nothing is bullet-proof, it is faaaar from the ticking time-bomb that you portray.

e) yep, a 'verter will f'up your gas milage if you drive in bumper to bumper traffic a lot. folks that don't live in congested urban areas prolly won't notice much of a difference. i dunno about your car, but my tc locks in od around 40 mph under light throttle. on a road trip or non-urban driving, i doubt anyone would notice a difference at all. so i concede that point, but only under your specific circumstances.

here is a little something to for all to consider when dissagreeing with another-

1- you would do well not to generalize. it is divisive (ironic, that) and will piss ppl off. instead of bringing ppl around to see your point of view it will polarize folks. if you have to name names, then for god's sake, do grow a sack and name them. don't be a pussy and hide behind generalizations. and if you do find that you have to generalize ppl, terms like "some", "a few", "most", etc. are excellent qualifiers.

2- be specific in your arguments. the best arguments are made point by point as are the best rebuttals.

3- don't assume anyone's motivation or put words into the mouths of others. not only is it wrong and unfair, it will breed contempt towards you and will more than likely loose any chance you had at getting that person to see your point of view.

BLACKBIRD8200

05-12-2004, 04:25 PM

racing is a endless sport, meaning if you get beat what is the first thing most people do? they run home and start looking for upgrades for their car, hoping they run into the the same car again to show him what he can do now!! thats what makes racing (RACING) and fun. it all starts as a little friendly race then when some one gets beat and they take it to heart!! if you don't want to get be then don't race!!and for the record their are alot of (F-BODY) runing around thinking they are the ****, .I know cause i use to be one of them,and the same goes for (IMPORTS) no matter what you do there will always be some one faster!!!

gt40

05-12-2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by jthomas
[B]i'll tell you this much in response to your "just to make the Fbody look good" remark... to all you *******s that want to assume what my intentions are or put words into my mouth- **** you. clear enough?

well considering that your choice of words got sensored, the answer is no...you're not being clear at all....adn you need to take your medication too.

now, that's out of the way. my intentions were to show that one can get an ls1 fbod well into the 11's and run with/beat a z06 for not much money, stay legal, not ruin your gas milage and keep your 10-bolt. $300 for drag radials, $700 for a nitrous kit and $600 for a 'verter. oops, that's $1600 in parts. sorry. as for you including shipping, tax, install, wheel weights and whatever else... you forgot to include the cost of band-aids for the cuts and scrapes for installing the nitrous yourself.

gee, the cost of bandaids are now about $350-400...since that's how much it cost to install a converter.

as for the prelude/ls1 thing. i don't see your point. i don't ever recall stating that a honda on spray can't take an fbody.

the point is that if one side cries about how it takes a highly modified Prelude to beat a near stock Fbody, then the same can be said about it taking a highly modified Fbody to beat a stock Z06.

in street racing it's all about running what you've got. if you loose to a 'lude on spray then you didn't have enough and better luck next time. imports, domestics, whatever...

well address this to the whiners, not me.

now, to your other points...

a) noper.... not many hp making mods are gonna stop costing you money after the initial purchase.

you're not making any sense here. you said that it cost $1500 to run with a Z06 by spraying...i'm saying that you're not including the recurring cost of refilling the bottle, which is a significant factor.

b) will catch up to what? also see my response to "a)"

will catch up to buying a supercharger or doing heads cam.

c) i don't give a rat's ass about what other ppl think of my mods. especially if i beat them. but everyone is different, so you have a point.

your point is in the minority.

d) the stock 10-bolt has proven itself many times with a nice verter, good power and nothing stickier than drag radials. while nothing is bullet-proof, it is faaaar from the ticking time-bomb that you portray.

show me where i portrait it to be a time bomb. show me. you made it up.

you're the one who said that on with DR, 125 shot, converter...will "keep the stock 10-bolt INTACT"

wtf does INTACT imply?

i'm not Ms. Cleo...you are the one who said "INTACT".... i am merely questioning your usage of this term.

here is a little something to for all to consider when dissagreeing with another-

1- you would do well not to generalize. it is divisive (ironic, that) and will piss ppl off. instead of bringing ppl around to see your point of view it will polarize folks.

take your own advice. or how about telling people to F off? is that also another form of ettiquette worth considering?

if you have to name names, then for god's sake, do grow a sack and name them. don't be a pussy and hide behind generalizations. and if you do find that you have to generalize ppl, terms like "some", "a few", "most", etc. are excellent qualifiers.

i quoted what you said and argued your points....is that close enough?

2- be specific in your arguments. the best arguments are made point by point as are the best rebuttals.

quoting everything that you're saying and debatting them point for point is not?

3- don't assume anyone's motivation or put words into the mouths of others. not only is it wrong and unfair, it will breed contempt towards you and will more than likely loose any chance you had at getting that person to see your point of view.

so you didn't use that $1500 price figure to make the Fbody sound Z06-Fast while remaining cheap to mod? what wer your intentions then?

jthomas

05-12-2004, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by gt40
well considering that your choice of words got sensored, the answer is no...you're not being clear at all....adn you need to take your medication too.

i'm sure you understood perfectly. assumptions can beget hostility, no?

gee, the cost of bandaids are now about $350-400...since that's how much it cost to install a converter.

some folks can swap a 'verter out with no band-aids or problems.

the point is that if one side cries about how it takes a highly modified Prelude to beat a near stock Fbody, then the same can be said about it taking a highly modified Fbody to beat a stock Z06.

that was your point, not mine. i never "cried" about it nor even mentioned it until you brought it up in a reply to my post.

well address this to the whiners, not me.

i wrote it to give you my perspective on it.

you're not making any sense here. you said that it cost $1500 to run with a Z06 by spraying...i'm saying that you're not including the recurring cost of refilling the bottle, which is a significant factor.

i understand. and i'm saying that it is incidental compared to other systems that use more resources all the time such as a big cam and it's added cost of fuel. my point is that there are very few mods that add big power that don't continue to cost down the road.

will catch up to buying a supercharger or doing heads cam

it will take a lot of bottle refills to equal the cost of an fi or h/c package.

your point is in the minority.

that may be so, but i'm pretty sure that you already understand that i don't care about such things.

show me where i portrait it to be a time bomb. show me. you made it up.

"oh, and bye-bye to the 10-bolt rearend too". sound familiar?

you're the one who said that on with DR, 125 shot, converter...will "keep the stock 10-bolt INTACT"

wtf does INTACT imply?

i'm not Ms. Cleo...you are the one who said "INTACT".... i am merely questioning your usage of this term.

lol @ Ms. Cleo.

intact meaning that someone doing said mods can resonably expect the 10-bolt to lead a long and healthy life by not gernading.

take your own advice. or how about telling people to F off? is that also another form of ettiquette worth considering?

i've absolutely no problems with my own advise. did i deviate? and if you fell like telling me to f off, then that is your prerogative.

i quoted what you said and argued your points....is that close enough?

yep. thanks.

quoting everything that you're saying and debatting them point for point is not?

never claimed that you didn't. thanks for the effort and your html skills are better than most.

so you didn't use that $1500 price figure to make the Fbody sound Z06-Fast while remaining cheap to mod? what wer your intentions then?

that figure is out of context. another no-no. what i wrote wasn't to make the fbody to look good, it was to refute-

"when an Fbody is mod to hell and sarcrificing gas mileage (14-17mpg) and risk getting impounded by some states for not running cats in order to make enough power to beat a STOCK Z06...then it's great. oh, and bye-bye to the 10-bolt rearend too."

the fact that is is relatively cheap is just icing on the cake and only part of my point as a whole. if that makes the fbody look good to someone, then so be it.

now, this has come to the point where this thread will probably get locked. if it does and you would like to continue, please pm me.