Which is better, going to a LS1 or Lt1?

Hey guys, i'm gonna get rid of the good old 305, and was thinking about swapping in an Ls1 or LT1. I'm basically thinking about swappin in the engine and auto. tranny.

Which of these engines would be the easiest to swap in (i'm doing all of the work myself)

Are there any serious problems that I would have to be thinking about?

I would be buyin the conversion kit from 3rd gen.org to smooth out the process.

thanks

I suspect the LT1 will be an easier/less expensive swap.

does anyone know a website that details this sort of a swap? I was leaning more towards the lt1 myself because they are more common.

also, will the tranny bolt up? or will i have to fab a new crossmember

if u use a T-56 6 speed,u will def. need a new crossmember,as for the A4,im not absolutely sure...but probably.

LT1 is what i would do also. the swap is way cheaper and parts are also. they are much more plentiful too. plus, you can always up to an LT4 which owns the LS1

I wouldn't do the LT1 swap. IMO, too much trouble and money for too little gain. If I was going to do an upgrade, it would be a LT4 or LS1 swap. As mentioned, the LT4 owns the LS1. I don't think there is that much more potential for the LT1 to justify the work and money. If I was not willing to do the work and dump the cash, I would beef up the L98. Professional opinions rate the LT1 at about 20-30 HP more for a heavily modified LT1 as opposed to an L98 with the same mods.

but the whole idea of having an LT1 in a car thats not supposed to have one is absolutly awesome. if i had an LT1 or could score one for cheap, i'd swap. but i'm with you Aklim, if you have a 350 in the car already, spend the thousands you'd spend on the LT1 swap, on your current engine. then you'll be owning the LTs no prob

A 4L60E tranny from a 4th gen will work in a 3rd, the T56 will need a new cross member because it's longer than the 700R4 or the T5 that came in the 3rd gen.

Do the LT1 swap and while the LT1 is not in the car, have the stock heads ported and polished, and throw in a nice cam with some 1.6 rockers. :)

Originally posted by LiquidSkies
LT1 is what i would do also. the swap is way cheaper and parts are also. they are much more plentiful too. plus, you can always up to an LT4 which owns the LS1

lt4's "own" ls1's?? stock vs. stock, comparable, but no ownage there really:)

if you have a little extra $$ to spend, go ls1, if not, go lt1. just cam the ls1, and youre flying:)

theres TONS of info on "EDIT" thirdgen.org on both of these swaps. good luck whichever you choose:cool:

well for the "ownage" i was referring to the lt4 kit from summit, 425 HP. thats a lot more then the ls1's 330... both are nice engines though. i prefer my alternators on the top of the motor tough...

Might be cheaper to Supercharge the old L98 and that will give you more power than you could have got going with the LT1 or LS1.

yeah id take a charger over the lt or ls engines. good thought

I'd get about an 8:1 compression and a blower with healthy boost and some DOT slicks. :D :D

Yeah, the engine that I have right now is the 305 with crossfire injection, so basically any 350 is gonna be a large increase in power. :D

From the posts, I get the idea that the lt1 swap would be the easiest, I think im gonna go with the A4 because i dont feel like swapping a manual into my currently automatic car.

Will i have to get a custom driveshaft? or will the tranny bolt right up?

Also, will my 10 bolt rear hold up?

I'm running 275 60 r15's out back right now, so they should be able to handle the extra horsepower.

Also, i've heard the subframe connectors are a must- who makes the best pair for the money?

thanks guys:)

See as how you have to change harnesses anyways, you could go with any motor. Like I said before, the LT1 will require some work whereas the L98 will fit in perfectly. The question you ahve to ask yourself is this: Is it worth the work for the "Ooooh and Ahhhh" factor?

Edit: Changed it from L09 to L98

Originally posted by aklim
See as how you have to change harnesses anyways, you could go with any motor. Like I said before, the LT1 will require some work whereas the L09 will fit in perfectly. The question you ahve to ask yourself is this: Is it worth the work for the "Ooooh and Ahhhh" factor?

did you mean l98 by chance?:) i think id have to side with Aklim on this one. it would probably just be easier/cheaper/more powerful to just build an l98 and charge it:) i dont believe theres much advantage of the lt1 over l98 that cant be equalled out pretty easily (intake manifold, cam). so what, you get reverse flow cooling and the dreaded opti with the lt1:rolleyes: :D .jmo

Originally posted by LiquidSkies
well for the "ownage" i was referring to the lt4 kit from summit, 425 HP. thats a lot more then the ls1's 330... both are nice engines though. i prefer my alternators on the top of the motor tough...


ls1's power output is actually closer to 350, not 330 . the summit kit is basically your "regular" lt4 top end + the lt4 "hotcam", which brings it to its "425hp" mark. they do sell a "hotcam" for ls1's as well you know, with no need for better heads/int. manifold really, which more than likely equals summits lt4 package:) and that is a "mild" cam.

Originally posted by slashz28
did you mean l98 by chance?:) i think id have to side with Aklim on this one. it would probably just be easier/cheaper/more powerful to just build an l98 and charge it:) i dont believe theres much advantage of the lt1 over l98 that cant be equalled out pretty easily (intake manifold, cam). so what, you get reverse flow cooling and the dreaded opti with the lt1:rolleyes: :D .jmo

Corrected it.

Like I said before, with the L98 you lose the reverse flow and add the distributor that the LT1 doesn't have. However, talking to professionals in the field they report at most a 20-30 HP if you max the hell out of the LT1 as opposed t doing the same with the L98. If I am going thru all that trouble, it will be worth a hell of a lot more than a 20HP at best difference.

Well, the nice thing about reverse cooling is that you can run higher compression on pump gas than you normally could with a regular small block. 12:1 is not uncommon for a street driven LT1. The LT4 package is a bit overrated. 425 flywheel hp is more likely, on a dyno you might hit 350-360. With ported stock heads and a matched cam, an LT1 can easily hit 400 rwhp, if you use ported LT4 heads and a matched cam, then they can do a bit more. The nice thing about the opti is that it's extremely accurate and you never have to set the timing. Just line up the dowel pin and boom, perfect timing (which is nice). Also, you can convert from the opti to a DIS style ignition system with either the LTCC or a Delteq unit. You retain the opti for the low res cam pulse, but the LTCC/Delteq system barks the orders to a set of coil on when to fire so there is no high current side to the opti anymore. They pretty much last forever then. Another interesting thing is the Dynaspark which is an opti with copper (non-corrosive) contacts and a billet housing that is now on the market. We can sit here all day and debate the heck out of which is better, but it won't do much good. Either way you go, you're going to have a good running car with whichever motor you pick. :)

My Lt1 overheated all the time, but my Ls1 runs cool. I think the Lt1 swap would be alot easier, but the ls1 would be my choice;)

But if the L98 and the LT1 are both modded to the max, do you really think you can see more than 20HP of difference?

just a couple of questions:

1. Why is the lt1 so much harder to put in than the L98 (by the way, I will be deleting the AC)

2. What is the problem with optispark?

3. Which engine will produce more power with a cam and heads?

I'm basically looking for the easiest and most cost effective route to get a little more power in my car.

Sorry for the newbie questions

Basically, i'm not looking to mod my engine to the max- dont have the money for it right now, I'm still in high school.

I need a reliable engine that will perform the best with the few mods that I am able to afford right now.

So with a head and cam package, can anyone give me some numbers to work with?

Originally posted by kbog54
just a couple of questions:

1. Why is the lt1 so much harder to put in than the L98 (by the way, I will be deleting the AC)

2. What is the problem with optispark?

3. Which engine will produce more power with a cam and heads?

I'm basically looking for the easiest and most cost effective route to get a little more power in my car.

Sorry for the newbie questions

LT1 was not designed to fit into this bay with the accessories and even without, you will have to dent some parts of the structure to get it to fit. If you don't know how much to dent, I would suspect that it would be a process of "dent, lower engine to check, dent....." till it was right.

Problem with optispark was that it was a poor design and water got in and screwed it up. IIRC. and IIRC they fixed it with a vented cap.

You might get a few more HP with the LT1 assuming you have done the intakes of the L98 also. Another route is you could modify the LT1 intake so it would fit and that woudl be around $400 or a modified intake or maybe $700 if you wanted to go with a Holley Stealth Ram. In any case, the TPI intake of the L98 sucks. So, for ease of work, I would suggest a L98 with say an LT1 intake, heads and cam and a modified EPROM with headers and you should be screaming.

I just bought a LT1 and A4 out of a '97 Z28 with 60k miles to put into my 1980 Camaro. I shopped around and got it for $1400. I told the guy that I wanted to splice into the old system as little as possible. I got the engine and everything that bolts onto it, the computer and harness, instrument cluster (I'm gonna make it work some way), radiator, condenser, and radiator shroud.

I figure I will need motor mounts, a throttle cable, rig the tranny linkage and crossmember, get power to the fans and injectors, lie to the computer about the VATS and install post cat O2 sims, put a different rear end in and get a drive shaft cut, and I should be about set. There will probably be about 3 dozen other things that I don't know about yet, but it will be worth it going from a 229 to a LT1 350 for under $2000.

If you're not running AC, then just get a 1LE AC delete pulley and drop the thing in. The AC is the biggest reason why the LT1 doesn't easily fit into an older car. Most people will use the accessories from a Vette which mounts the AC high on the driver side so you don't have to notch/cut anything.

As far as the opti goes, as long as your waterpump doesn't start leaking or you don't drive through a 2 ft deep puddle, you shouldn't have any problems out of it for at least 70K miles or more. If you take it apart and add a little RTV sealant around the outside of the cap and rotor, then they last a very long time (the vented ones).

I think Dan's biggest headache is going to be running a new fuel system in that old Camaro. :D

I vote for conventional SBC with a carb. :)

I definitely would go w/ the LT1. I used to own an L98 w/ a couple minor bolt ons, then I bought my stock LT1, and the difference was unbelievable. I used to think the L98 was fast. Then I found out that it just had good low end torque, and was still slow in a real race. Yeah an L98 will hang w/ an LT1 0-40, but after that, the LT1 will start pulling away. I would go LT1 because it is cheaper than the LS1.

The opti is not a bad design. It is much more accurate than a traditional dist design. Mine had 101k and still didn't have any problems. I just replaced it since i was going there already (w/ the Elec WP).

Tell you what, go test drive some stock LT1s and some stock L98s, and then make your decision. I'm sure I know what it will be. The LT1s still have great low end punch, as well as power up top. If you aren't convinved, ride in a modded LT1, and then tell us what you choose. I would never trade my LT1 back for my L98, if that tells you anything.

Good luck w/ the LT1 swap. Put in a CC305 or a Hot cam w/ some LT headers and watch her scream.

Stock for stock, yes, the LT1 is better. Replace the crappy L98 intake and it will be a whole new ball game.

Yes you can make all 3 of them very fast. Sounds like you have a healthy setup Aklim, what are you running in the 1/4?

Just some more random thoughts.

a. Stock for stock, LT4's and LS1's run high 12's-low 13's- how is that ownage?
b. LT1's have limited resources, therefore are expensive to build.
c. LS1's have even more limited resources, plus the blocks can't take a lot of power- and also expensive to build.

My question is- why spend a ton of money on doing a stock, or near stock motor swap? Is it for the prestige of having something you don't currently have? Isn't the point of swapping motors to go faster?

I still stand by a carb'd SBC with any number of Aftermarket, (NON-GM) heads.

You'll go faster, spend less, and be much happier.

Originally posted by FastWhiteTA
Yes you can make all 3 of them very fast. Sounds like you have a healthy setup Aklim, what are you running in the 1/4?

Not good enough. Looking to try out the new HSR with 42# injectors and a totaly different cam, 1.6RR intake and 1.5RR exhaust with a 3800 stall Vigalente. In mid 12s now but hoping for less with the new setup.

Originally posted by steve10358
My question is- why spend a ton of money on doing a stock, or near stock motor swap? Is it for the prestige of having something you don't currently have? Isn't the point of swapping motors to go faster?

That was my question too. Like I said, some pros have told me that fully massaged, an LT1 will make about 20HP more than an L98 that has been worked on to the same specs. However, if we were racing for money, I'd go with the LT1 because that 20HP might get me the win. Since most of us are not, that is why I said to stick with the L98 and massage it to the max. That would be easier than shoehorning in an LT1 and gaining 20HP max.

That is why I ahve stated that it is too much work for too little gain.

Originally posted by aklim
Like I said, some pros have told me that fully massaged, an LT1 will make about 20HP more than an L98 that has been worked on to the same specs.

What pro told you that?!?! I'd run like hell from that shop!!
Think about it, a motor is a motor. Heads are heads. Ports are ports, etc...

If LT1's made more power than other engines with the same specs- don't you think there'd be more LT1's in the high horse, class registered race cars? :)

I can't agree with you more Aklim- too much work, not enough gain.

S.

Originally posted by steve10358
What pro told you that?!?! I'd run like hell from that shop!!
Think about it, a motor is a motor. Heads are heads. Ports are ports, etc...

If LT1's made more power than other engines with the same specs- don't you think there'd be more LT1's in the high horse, class registered race cars? :)

I can't agree with you more Aklim- too much work, not enough gain.

S.

I believe it was LPE and a few others in that range that said that if you max out the LT1 and do the same with the L98 that the power difference was probably slightly more (20HP more) with the LT1 because it is reverse cooled (a tad higher compression) and does not have a distributor to drag it down but 20-30HP was all you could get out of it, if that. That was why they said that it wasn't worth the work unless you had to have that 20HP and even trying to get that difference would be pushing it.