1000+ HP and TQ ?

ok my motor lasted about 230 miles with the turbo on it so the car has sat for the past 4 weeks as i am trying to figure out my plan of attack. for the longest time i was wanting to go with a 396cid low compression motor and a t-88 turbo on custom manifolds. i was looking at numbers just over 1000 (flywheel) on dest top dyno. then for fun i plugged in a 383cid and saw that it would only make 10 less HP and TQ. since 383s are the norm and most say easier to build what you you guys do?
would I be able to run 5.7 rods with a 3.875 crank and dished pistons so that i could keep the compression down with a 396?
what set up for a 396 and 20psi would you guys use? would you just stay with the easier and stronger 383? i want to get a forged rotating assembly from either Nu-teck or Combo. i know it will be expensive but i plan on it taking a while. the motor comes out this weekend and heads to the machine shop soon after.

I wouldn't count it making 1000+hp just because DDD says so, but I do agree that the hp difference will be small. The low CR will have little to do with 383 v. 396 and will be dependent primarily on the size of the combustion chambers and the pistons chosen, though all else equal it will be a bit lower with a 383. As far as a 383 being stronger, it's not.

But depending on the rods chosen, the extra .125" stroke of the 396 can pose problems with clearancing the block and since the benefit is small, I'd go with the 383.

Rich Krause

i know DDD isn't 100% but its a good tool to work with when you want ideas. the only reason i figured a 396 might be weaker was because of the removal of more material.

1000rwhp is a tremendous undertaking, I know first hand. ARE has done it with a 422 w/400 shot, and W2W has done it with a 387 C5R and 2000 cfm blower. And I will do it in the next few weeks with 1600 cfm and a 200 shot. In any case, we're talking at least $20 to $30,000.

I'm guessing it will cost more than $20. :D

I agree!

first off i am not talking about wheel horsepower i'm talking fly wheel. a t-88 will support that much power with ease so thats no problem. so if i went with an all forged motor with 4 bolt mains, big heads, balanced and all then that shouldn't create a problem right? i have the turbo department covered ($1000 turbo and about $1000 for the manifolds) with a short block costing say 5k to build add another $1000 for whatever and i am only 8k in to that point. i have no clue where these huge numbers come from sometimes:confused:

can anyone tell me if the 5. 7 rods will create too much side load in a 396? would that be a good way to lower the compression?
thanks for the help keep it coming.

I'll tell you where the other numbers come from

Turbo intake piping, oil lines and misc other stuff: $500 - 1K
Custom Catback to handle that HP: 1K
Tranny: 2K (auto or manual)
Rear End: 1-2K
Fuel System: 1.5K
Suspension mods to try and keep it on the ground 1-2K +
Wheels and tires to help 1-2K
New computer and/or tuning 1-3K (depending on setup)

Those are just a few things that I came up woth off the top of my head and that adds up to about $15K and I'm sure there's stuff I forgot.

i understand all the other car stuff but i am only asking about the motor. my car is already turbocharged so i have the intercooler, piping that will need little modification for a new turbo location, FAST ems, i don't run exhaust just downpipe. i have a shop lined up to put in my cage, 160# injectors , aeromotive fuel pump, and a full BMR suspension with a moser rear end will all be in this summer as will a T-56 and spec clutch.
yes the entire cost of the car will be over 30K but i am not asking about all that. i just want to know if the 396 of or the 383 would be the better motor for 20psi and 1000 Flywheel HP and TQ.

Call Jayson at MTI and ask him your question.

what is MTI and do they have a phone number? i have never heard of them.

Motorsports Technology, Inc in Houston, TX. Premier LS1 builders.

so do they work with LT1s as well? thank you for the info i will try to look them up.

Yes, they do.

MTI doesnt work or cary parts on LT1 cars any more. They have a prety much shop car which is a 95 Fireawk, Fikse mags, big vortech blower, after cooler, 383, afr headed, well built car and when it was a six speed on a shot of gas it was hitting in the high 9XXrwhp range. That car belongs to Dave Lewis, but they are always messing with it. Last i heard it got some suspension work and a TH200R4. All this on the stock pcm. Jayson will still take care of any car he has built in the past and that hawk is evidence of it. With an LT1, most people who had the money to pay big shops like MTI to work on them have LS1s now. Most of the do it your self weekend racers have the Lt1 cars now adays.

I stand corrected on LT1s.

Just for reference...

Nu-Tek shortblock: $4000
AFR heads & top end: $3000
Tubular front suspension: $900
TH400 and everything to make it work RIGHT: $2300
Chassis/rear suspension mods (incl. 12-bolt): $3300
Fuel system: $2000
Misc. odds & ends and parts that broke: $600
Turbo setup incl. intercooler & manifolds: $3000
10-pt cage and all the safety crap: $1300

I know I've forgotten some stuff too, but that's a good start. Also figure that 90% of the work on the car was done by ME, in my own garage with my own tools being turned by my own hands. If you're gonna go the "drop it off and 2 months later be magically done" route with a shop, times all that by at least 30%.

Originally posted by Gearhead6s

can anyone tell me if the 5. 7 rods will create too much side load in a 396? would that be a good way to lower the compression?

5.7 rods will be fine, but they will do nothing to lower your compression....that will be in the piston/ combustion chamber department.

Originally posted by mongse_1
If you're gonna go the "drop it off and 2 months later be magically done" route with a shop, times all that by at least 30%.

Thats pretty conservative, don't ya think? I'd guess way more. I know in just the fabrication department, I paid probably $200 in parts for my headers, and maybe another 10-15 hrs in fab and weld time. Pay me $65 an hour for my labor and the cost significantly rises!

i thought that if i used a shorter rod then i would have more room at the top of the piston for a deep dish. with JE -33cc pistons and a 62cc combustion chamber and fel-pro 1047s about what would my comp. ratio be? i want to run the new trick flow heads if i can.

Originally posted by SMOKNZ
Thats pretty conservative, don't ya think? I'd guess way more. I know in just the fabrication department, I paid probably $200 in parts for my headers, and maybe another 10-15 hrs in fab and weld time. Pay me $65 an hour for my labor and the cost significantly rises!

Yeah, it is conservative. Try a place like MTI and you'll be looking at MUCH more than that. Even figuring 30%, I'd wager that your labor @ LPE would be almost as much as the parts. :eek:

I've been around racing for almost 40 years, and the #1 rule I've learned is that you will save money in the long run by doing it right the first time.

The "1000 hp" question has been asked and answered many times on this and other sites, and it is inconceivable that a reliable 1000hp LS1-type motor can be built for less than $20,000. I obviously know nothing about your car building skills, but my advice is to have one of the proven shops build such a motor for you. But the story doesn't end there, because the rest of the car will have to modified to handle such power.

Originally posted by stealth2
I've been around racing for almost 40 years, and the #1 rule I've learned is that you will save money in the long run by doing it right the first time.

The "1000 hp" question has been asked and answered many times on this and other sites, and it is inconceivable that a reliable 1000hp LS1-type motor can be built for less than $20,000. I obviously know nothing about your car building skills, but my advice is to have one of the proven shops build such a motor for you. But the story doesn't end there, because the rest of the car will have to modified to handle such power.


Good post! Listen to this man.

Rich Krause

Originally posted by stealth2
I've been around racing for almost 40 years, and the #1 rule I've learned is that you will save money in the long run by doing it right the first time.

The "1000 hp" question has been asked and answered many times on this and other sites, and it is inconceivable that a reliable 1000hp LS1-type motor can be built for less than $20,000. I obviously know nothing about your car building skills, but my advice is to have one of the proven shops build such a motor for you. But the story doesn't end there, because the rest of the car will have to modified to handle such power.

Well thanks for the help. :rolleyes: i have said above that i have an LT1 not an LS1 and since there are a few 1000 flywheel HP small blocks in the world i am going to try my best. thank you for again telling me that it will be expensive. and thank you for again telling me that the rest of the car will need another 10 billion thrown at it.
i know you guys are trying to tell me all about everything but all i want to know is the best way to get my compression down on a 396ci motor. if that is not possible then should i just go with the 383? i thought that having a 5.7 rod might let my pistions be a little thicker in a 396 to help keep the ring lands intact and possbily get a little more dish in a piston. is that not how it works?

The difference in CR between a 383 and a 396 will be ~0.3 if all else remains the same. Is that a significant difference? Depends on the whole combo. I am fond of the 383, for the lower CR and some other reasons. But it's not a big difference either way.

Good luck.

Rich Krause

Best way to keep the compression low in a 383 : AFR heads with 78cc combustion chamber, and a set of extreme duty -31cc JE pistons. Don't think there is anything out there with more size than that for our motors.

good deal thank you for a great answer. thats exactly what i need to know.

1000fwhp:

+$2000 for FAST ECU to control fuel and timing
+$2000 for fuel system and 83 or 96 lb injectors

I we think I am 850-900 fwhp now since I have a T400 unlocked.

already have the FAST and the 160# injectors will be here soon.

Yikes, hope you're not planning on running those 160# squirters on the street much. :eek:

As for the rods, if you don't want to run a 5.7" rod, a good comprimise on a 396 would be a 5.875" rod. Plenty of beef on the ring lands.

Originally posted by Gearhead6s
already have the FAST and the 160# injectors will be here soon. Wow, I only use 84# Delphi's in my blown LS1 and it will make around 850 rwhp on the blower, and I have a T-Rex pump driving my small wet shot. I see you've adopted the principal of "buy more than you think is required."

thanks for the help with the rods Mongoose. i was wondering if the 5.87s would have room for a beefy ring land.
as for the 160 injectors its a price issue. 160 for $450 compared to $600+ for 75s or 83s. i know they might have idle issues and since i haven't acctually purchased them yet we are still looknig into how they would run.

Gearhead.. my suggestion is as rich has said a few times already...

Its a better idea to make the engine last a bit longer if you do a 383. There is not that much difference between a 383 and a 396 in power overall.. You will have the ability to spin it a little higher and still use a 5.7 rod to have a thicker piston... I am going with the combo said in one of the posts 383 31cc dish pistons and 62cc combustion chambers... That yields me a 8.8:1 with felpro gaskets...

I will be in the dept of 700-750 which is less than what you are doing now, but I believe rskrause is in the 100rwhp range already. So might as well listen to him ;) I have all this time and had GOOD results... Also.. if you are using a m6 go with a street twin.. it will handle 1400HP unlike the spec 3.