Any progress on the OPTI alternative

There was a thread about a month ago
concerning people working on alternatives to the optispark. Does anyone have anything to report?

No progress?

Last I read they were trying to get it to work without running a aftermarket ecu

Eric

This is a parts list i got from Arnie and Ryan a while ago:

8-#12558948 coil
2-#12562864 brkt.,coil mtg.
8-#10258914 bolt (or 6x1x20mm equiv.)
8-#12560038 bolt
1-#10110859 oil cap
1-#85241 Magnecor wire set (2002 vortec trk.) or Taylor cut to fit wires.
6-generic 1/4x1 3/4 pan hd. bolt/stud (brkt.
mtg.-personal pref.)
1-LTCC Module
1-Harness (Both LTCC and Harness are purchased though Bob Bailey)

I would love to do it, but dont have the extra $400 or so to do it right now :( Any one want to get me the parts and ill try it out ;)

Originally posted by kmook
This is a parts list i got from Arnie and Ryan a while ago:

8-#12558948 coil
2-#12562864 brkt.,coil mtg.
8-#10258914 bolt (or 6x1x20mm equiv.)
8-#12560038 bolt
1-#10110859 oil cap
1-#85241 Magnecor wire set (2002 vortec trk.) or Taylor cut to fit wires.
6-generic 1/4x1 3/4 pan hd. bolt/stud (brkt.
mtg.-personal pref.)
1-LTCC Module
1-Harness (Both LTCC and Harness are purchased though Bob Bailey)

So Ken, does this still use the opti for crank reference and the coil packs for the high voltage side? I would think you could find the coils at a wrecking yard cheap, how much does LTCC want for the harness and module?
:bow:

Yep still uses the opti for referance and uses coil packs for the high voltage, and uses the stock computer.

I think i recall the module and harness are about $400. So new coils and such it would probably be around $600 total.

IF you still have to use the opti, then what's the point?

A couple of us have had good luck using only the optical sensor part of the Opti, and getting the high voltage stuff out of the case. I've use it that way with the LS1 coils for about 2 years, and George Baxters 1,125HP 9.04-second 97 30th SS Convert ran it for over 4 years. Unfortunately, we both invested in MoTeC computers, because the current solution wasn't available.

Not everyone agrees that the "optical only" opti will perform any better than the "normal" opti, but you sure end up with a killer igntion....:).

Ken, the LS1 coil(s) cost is closer to $280. This would bring the total cost close to $700.

Also, the Magnecor #85241 wire set I made reference to, (which is 2" longer than the std. LS1 (Cam. and vette) turned out to be too short for me. I ended up with a custom set from Magnecor, approx. $110, that is 6" longer than the std. LS1 oem wire. HTH

The thread that referenced/explained the LTCC module should still be available in the archive.

BTW, Ken if you are aware of a source that sells (8) LS1 coils for $200 let me know. No, seriously. 'Cuz I am going to need another set soon.

Could someone give me the number for Bob Bailey. I want to set this up. However im using the FAST computer. I think it should still work though. My buddy with the fast just converted to the ls1 coils...turned out great but costed him $1500. He uses a crank referance. I feel I just need to get the high voltage out of the opti.
Anyone have a number for Bob Bailey or a link to his sit please let me know

Thanks

A quick search under 'arnie' turned up this thread:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23617

Read my posts in that thread for the info you are after

I tried emailing him in the past with no response?

Could someone email me when you find out the info about this. I want one of these very badly, so please email me if you could, thanks

This may be a dumb question, but will this work with a non vented opti?
I need to replace mine asap and would like to move up to coil packs later when funds allow.
Thanks, Kory

I'm still around, I just don't get by here very often. Thanks for picking up the slack, Arnie.

I don't think that I missed any emails, but ya never know.

The email address is bob@bailey-eng.com

The system will work with non-vented Opti's.

It will work with any system that can use the opti..... i.e. DFI, FAST, stock...

TurboBob

Bob, any plans in the works to get ThunderRacing, IRS, TByrne, etc. to carry your black box and/or package up a kit ready to go?

The unit was originally going to be distributed by a major vendor..... they backed out at the end.

I would consider such an arrangement. But for now I am not pursuing one.

Bob

Just a Heads up,looks like Bob made serious progress here.

http://www.geocities.com/reilym/LTCC/

It looks good but has anyone tried it and how precise is it at rpms over 7000?

Since the PCM still governs when spark is issued and the optical sensor is what determines how often, I'm sure the 7K limitation is still in place. I'm jumping onto the group purchase for the box.
I bought a complete set of coils from a owner for 75 bux.
Dave

I have a few sets of 5.3 coils FS, $120 shipped, if anyone can use them for this project. My understanding is that the coils will work, but the connectors might be different. Perhaps Bob can tell us.

Originally posted by Rob94hawk
It looks good but has anyone tried it and how precise is it at rpms over 7000?

Yup!.......and don't know!

Pampers Wearin' Zeke: Just drill a big azz hole in the back of your manifold, and hammer a HEI distributor in. WHAM! Instant OPTI alternative! YOU FRIGGIN' HILLBILLY! Shouldn't you be on a hog callin forum or sumthin', and not be worring about them there hot rods?

Just got my LTCC kit and Taylor plug wires today. I'm going to be installing this tonight. I'm pumped about it! Thanks, Bob Bailey for your quick response in getting this to me. Kit looks good. Professional quality wire, looms and connectors.
Dave:D

Originally posted by unstable bob
Pampers Wearin' Zeke: Just drill a big azz hole in the back of your manifold, and hammer a HEI distributor in. WHAM! Instant OPTI alternative! YOU FRIGGIN' HILLBILLY! Shouldn't you be on a hog callin forum or sumthin', and not be worring about them there hot rods?


WOW, You are one smart City Slicker, how many time did you gradiate the 5th
grade???

Been working on that already. I have the link for the LT1 intake on a 3rd gen

http://www.lt1intake.com/

Since I must keep the emmission on the car I'm having a space problem
with the EGR and AIR tubes. But I'm checking on the Electromotive SBC
unit, it's basically a dist. shaft with a sensor mounted to it. It just might fit?

But, if I do need to start swinging a B.F.H., you'll be the first one I call!

John

I'm getting 3 systems from him, can't wait :)

Can you guys who have purchased them recently answer a few quesitons for me?

1) is Bob still using the metal case? I would prefer a plastic case, but mine came with a metal one.
2) what is the firmware number on the chip? Is it still 1.6? I just want to make sure my unit is up to date.

Thanks,
DaveW

Originally posted by DaveW 396ci
1) is Bob still using the metal case? I would prefer a plastic case, but mine came with a metal one.
2) what is the firmware number on the chip? Is it still 1.6? I just want to make sure my unit is up to date.

Thanks,
DaveW

As of about 10 wks. ago.....metal and 1.9

Originally posted by kmook
This is a parts list i got from Arnie and Ryan a while ago:

8-#12558948 coil
2-#12562864 brkt.,coil mtg.
8-#10258914 bolt (or 6x1x20mm equiv.)
8-#12560038 bolt
1-#10110859 oil cap
1-#85241 Magnecor wire set (2002 vortec trk.) or Taylor cut to fit wires.
6-generic 1/4x1 3/4 pan hd. bolt/stud (brkt.
mtg.-personal pref.)
1-LTCC Module
1-Harness (Both LTCC and Harness are purchased though Bob Bailey)

BTW, for those interested or so inclined to go this route, there are a few changes/corrections that were made to this breakdown. Plus some relevant additional info that would have been helpful, was omitted in this list 'reprint'.

The #914 bolts are expensive, I found the 'equiv.' very acceptable. The quantity should read 16, not 8. (2 per coil)

I performed a slight mod to the #864 to better fit the LT1 cover.

I didn't need/use the #038 bolts.

The #859 oil cap is an earlier sbc rubber 'push on' cap. I altered it a bit for improved penetration. (?) Most would be better served with oem screw on cap sans filler tube of course.

#85241 wires are too short for most, must be made custom length.

The 6 generic bolts/studs at bottom, are/were used to mount brkts. on vette composite covers only. HTH some. :(

Here's some initial pics of my install. I'm going to reshoot some of the pictures. I still have plenty of text to apply, but I wanted to show you some pics. If you're on dialup, this page will load slowly because I have the pics all on this page. Later on, I will put links with meaningful names so that the page itself will load quickly and you can navigate to things that interest you instead of making you wait for every stinking picture to load at once.
www.taekwondoplus.org/z28/LTCC.htm
BTW-I had to send my LTCC box back to Bob. He's received it and fixed it. It appears I may have miswired the white wire and toasted a chip. I will be adding pictoral instructions to my LTCC page so that this can be averted by future LTCC owners.

So how long did it take to get the kit from Bob?

This guy Bob should be the standard for every Vendor in regards to customer satisfaction. After I paypal'd the money to him, he 2 day FedEx'd the LTCC to me.

Other Customer care notes: I've emailed him some questions at like 10:22 pm and he replied 9 minutes later. Other emails have resulted in similarly quick replies.

I'm creating an install web page with pictures so that people can get a more visual indication of what/where/how.

Houston, we have LTCC!
Fired right up! Amazing what a difference there is if you wire it up correctly :D
Differences:
Idle - MUCH smoother
Cruising RPM - smoother
WOT - dunno. It's stinking raining here :cry:
Thanks to Bob Bailey for his excellent product and craftmanship. Oh, and I would be completely remiss if I didn't state the incredible customer support Bob has provided from the get go. Last week (Feb 23rd) I sent him an email at 10:22 pm (Sunday) asking what I had done wrong when the box didn't seem to work. He responded about 9 minutes later. I miswired the EST (Electronic Spark Control) wire due to a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the wiring instructions. This fried a chip. Bob knew immediately what had happened when I told him the two diagnostic LED's (one's red, the other green) in the Box illuminated at 'key on' and they remained illuminated.(They are supposed to illuminated briefly at 'key on'). He told me to ship the box and harness back to him and he'd check it out. I priority mailed the box/harness to him. He got it, diagnosed it ,re-chipped it and put it on his car to test drive around for a day. He reported that it ran like a champ and he'd be shipping it back. I told him to tell me what I owed for the rechip and 2 day Fed Ex to get it back to me. He said, "no charge". I got the box/harness back in 2 days, FedEx. No charge. :D Unbelievable in this day and age of "F*ck you" customer service we're all, unfortunately, familiar with.
I drove the car to work today. Woot! I'm going to finish up a comprehensive install write up with pictures to help numbskulls like myself that might wire the "White" ESC incorrectly.
Thanks Bob!
David K. Wilson
'96 Z28 A3 355

so in the end, dave, how much did it cost you. I'm all for this setup. My car's bone stock, but i have a personal vendetta with my opti since it crapped out on me two weeks after I bought my car. Thanks for the info.

Dave, It was group purchase time at the time I bought mine. Contact Bob for current price level. The only other expense is the coils. I found a used set for $75. At the time I bought the LTCC it was $350 including shipping. I believe the 'normal' price is $399.
If you get a set of the opti boots you can probably use your old plug wires. I bought a new set of normal LT1 universal Taylors and cut to fit them. The opti boots snap right onto the LS1 coils.
I think you'll really like the LTCC. Not one hiccup since the install.
I have tremendous piece of mind with this product. I drive the car every day. To/from work. To/from taking my daughter to school. Activities most evenings. Grocery shopping, etc. Not a single 'burp' in the use of the car.

Back in 1998 Brian Bieller of LT1 Motorsports (http://www.lt1motorsports.com) used the rear distributor to power his LT1 to record speeds at that time. He's a local boy that I know. He went with DFI for more accurate injector control. You can see pics (http://www.lt1motorsports.com/images/side.JPG) of his engine with the distributor installed...

wow, that must have taken a lot of modification. I think that the only reason that this is an issue is because half of us don't have the extra $$ to do this stuff. With money, modification wouldn't be the issue, figuring out which mod was next would be.:D

Just a question for LTCC ignition owners

Will a standard LT1 ignition box work on this - say MSD 685 so I can keep my window switch/retard/dual rev limiters?

LMK,
Mike

Originally posted by mtxpert
Will a standard LT1 ignition box work on this - say MSD 685 so I can keep my window switch/retard/dual rev limiters?

No, I do not believe so. The LTCC does have it's own retard and rev limiter as an included feature though.

That's cool about the retard and rev limiter but I also require a window switch and a 2nd rev limiter for staging.

:(

Mike

Why doesn't anyone think of adapting a crank trigger to this whole setup and just getting rod of the opti? Seems to me that a MSD crank trigger will work so much better than a opti.

A distributor is the way to go on the cheap, that with a MSD 7 programaable and you are already there.

This is a good idea guys, but it seems like reinventing the wheel.

MY choice would be a 2 computers, one like a MSD 7 for the spark and one for the fuel injectors. That makes it imediately adpatable to a SBC too.

Bret

Because you need a high and a low signal.
One for the spark control and one for the injector pulse.
From what I understand from reading this you need to be able to tell exactly where the crank is to fire the appropriate injector. The crank trigger doesn't do this for you...

Search for LTCC and you'll get a better understanding.
Mike

O.k. but a aftermarket EFI system will have the way you are going to deal with that. A crank trigger is not far attached from a reluctor wheel in the LS1.

Bret

But the crank reluctor on the LS1 isn't telling the injectors when to fire. The problem really seems to be an issue with using a crank trigger and sequential fuel injection -- with sequential, it's the position of the camshaft that is needed, not the crank. If you were to use an crank trigger to drive an external computer, it should work fine as long as it's batch fire.

Why are so many people scared of the OptiSpark? I haven't had one failure since getting rid of the high tension side and using it only for the optical section. I'm still using the original optical portion that has over 60,000 miles on it, with almost half of that without the high tension side. I see absolutely no good reason to get rid of it completely.

My biggest complaint about the crank trigger is it's a PITA to get set up correctly (my setup requires both the optical section of the OptiSpark and a crank trigger). The LTCC does away with that, and allows use of individual coils -- sounds like the mutt's nuts to me!

I installed the LTCC module/harness on my 93 MN6 Z28 a couple of weeks ago. One wire hooked up a little differently than on the 94-97 LT1's. The car is running good and I put over 100 miles on the road course at Moroso with the LTCC setup without any problems. I'm pleased with the new plug wire routing and I'll try to take a few pics this week. The car definately seems to run a little smoother and I wouldn't be surprised to pick up a mpg or two once I get a tank of gas through it under normal driving conditions. Bob is great to deal with and provided me with quick answers to any questions I had. A big thumbs up!

Originally posted by mtxpert
That's cool about the retard and rev limiter but I also require a window switch and a 2nd rev limiter for staging.

I'm not sure about settting up for a 2nd rev limiter, but your window switch would still work with it. A window switch is, in a nutshell, reads the tach voltage and closes a relay when the RPM's are between the set levels. Has nothing to do with the ignition.

If I could afford to, I'd love to go to the LTCC setup. If my MSD Digital 6 fries again (I'm on #3 :rolleyes: ), I'll send it back to MSD again, get another new one free (seems MSD realizes these boxes have problems), and just sell the damn thing and use the money towards the LTCC box. A very worth while mod IMO.

quick question to all you LTCC guys: How do you keep the install clean with all those wires? I wanna do this, but it looks like such a mess under the hood.

I also don't care for mounting them to the valve covers because of valve lash adjustment on motors with solid lifters. I was thinking of welding some brackets on to a STB. Anyone have other ideas?

I have mine mounted to brackets I quickly fabbed to attach to my Kenny Brown strut tower brace...I'll probably incorporate a more finished set a little later down the road.

Stealth approach.... hang them behind the lower radiator support, run the wires underneath the headers. Not a good idea for a blower car... a broken blower belt will do a lot of damage to the wires. Also, this is not a daily driver and this in not an LTCC setup.

LS1 COILS (http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/injuneerzz@aol.com/Photos/Coils01.jpg)

MetLegLio-Exactly my experience with Bob. Very quick responses and service. My LTCC has been running w/o a single hiccup since I installed it (correctly :))

Thanks for the responses. I still haven't seen an answer to my question regarding the wiring harness though. How do you keep the engine bay clean with the huge wiring harness that comes with the LTCC. Post pics if ya got 'em.

Roadie-Bob provides plenty of wire length so that you can place the box quite distant from the coils. However, I , like you, find the 'bag o snakes' look a little offputting. I'm gonna make a pedestal on the intake to mount the box, then I'm going to cut the coil harness wires to 'just' the length to go from the LTCC box to the coils and solder/heat shrink the wires and reincase them in the corrugated loom for a tidy look.

Also, as far as needing access to the valves for lash adjustment, if you were to make brackets like mine except to slot the brackets instead of just having a bolt hole, you could merely loosen the bolts and slide the coil/bracket assembly out of the way. That couldn't amount to any real impedence to getting the covers off would it?
www.taekwondoplus.org/z28/LTCC.htm

It looks like each of your coild are mounted separately -- that would mean I'd have to take 8 coils loose every time. If i had them on the STB, I might be able to take the valve covers off without taking anything else apart. If not, I could just unplug the cables and plug wires and take the STB off (10 minutes).

I'm still contemplating other ideas. There's got to be a good way to do this without getting in the way. :)

Don't you have to take off 8 bolts to take off the valve covers anyway? One coil per valve cover bolt. Anyway,... theres a guy that mounted his coils up under the cowl. Four coils per side. Each group of four in a "C" shaped bracket (with the opening of the C pointing down) The coils were suspended in the brackets by threaded rod. Chrome Acorn nuts were on the ends of the threaded rods that stuck out either end of the C bracket. The plug wires just descended from there. Admittedly, this was on an LS1 but I would think this would be an idea that could be used by us (mighty) LT1 wizards.
Here's a pic
http://www.thebeasst.com/Motor_done.jpg

Originally posted by SStrokerAce
Why doesn't anyone think of adapting a crank trigger to this whole setup and just getting rod of the opti? Seems to me that a MSD crank trigger will work so much better than a opti.

A distributor is the way to go on the cheap, that with a MSD 7 programaable and you are already there.

This is a good idea guys, but it seems like reinventing the wheel.

MY choice would be a 2 computers, one like a MSD 7 for the spark and one for the fuel injectors. That makes it imediately adpatable to a SBC too.

Bret

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I currently using an Accel Gen 6 DFI in my racecar. It's batch fire so it requires no cam signal. I figure I can use a crank trigger to signal the ECU and then use the LTCC to distribute the spark to the individiual coil packs.

The biggest problem I have is my ECU is an 74022-L which is specifically designed to interface with the Optispark. I would have to send it back to Accel and have it modified to work with a crank trigger. Of course that may be a moot point as I'm thinking of upgrading to a Gen 7 as a winter project.

Originally posted by sseeya
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I currently using an Accel Gen 6 DFI in my racecar. It's batch fire so it requires no cam signal. I figure I can use a crank trigger to signal the ECU and then use the LTCC to distribute the spark to the individiual coil packs.

The biggest problem I have is my ECU is an 74022-L which is specifically designed to interface with the Optispark. I would have to send it back to Accel and have it modified to work with a crank trigger. Of course that may be a moot point as I'm thinking of upgrading to a Gen 7 as a winter project.

The Ltcc is a replacement for the opti. This box converts the opti signals so the ecu your running now would not have to be modified.

Driving 8 individual coils in direct fire requires a cam position signal. If you are going to run batch fire on a crank signal only, you will need to use the E'motive 4-coil setup, firing two cylinders simultaneously.

The LTCC is not a "replacement for the Opti". It is simply a device to drive 8 ignition channels from the stock PCM and the Opti low res signal.

you could mount them like i did on my LT1
Fits under the cowl.

www.96z28ss.cz28.com just go to my stroker page

Rob

what about the Dynotech piece? anyone used it?

Originally posted by Injuneer
Driving 8 individual coils in direct fire requires a cam position signal. If you are going to run batch fire on a crank signal only, you will need to use the E'motive 4-coil setup, firing two cylinders simultaneously.

The LTCC is not a "replacement for the Opti". It is simply a device to drive 8 ignition channels from the stock PCM and the Opti low res signal.

Apparently I misunderstood how the LTCC works. I assumed it took the output signal from the PCM to the ignition control module and somehow converted it to drive the individual coils. Apparently it still needs the low res signal from the Opti.

However, when I e-mailed Bob about it here's what he said:

The LTCC does not curently support a single crank sensor.
This is planned for a future upgrade.

Bob

Originally posted by sseeya
Apparently I misunderstood how the LTCC works. I assumed it took the output signal from the PCM to the ignition control module and somehow converted it to drive the individual coils. Apparently it still needs the low res signal from the Opti.

However, when I e-mailed Bob about it here's what he said:

The LTCC does not curently support a single crank sensor.
This is planned for a future upgrade.

Bob

Its main purpose is to remove the High res pulse from the opti, preventing corrosion and extra wear, in turn extending opti life and adding 8 coils for a cleaner spark.

Originally posted by slowpoke96z28
what about the Dynotech piece? anyone used it?

Assume you mean the "Dynaspark" billet replacement. There are numerous discussion of this on LT1 Tech. Look in particular for the thread started by Jordon Musser.

Originally posted by scoobysnax83
Its main purpose is to remove the High res pulse from the opti, preventing corrosion and extra wear, in turn extending opti life and adding 8 coils for a cleaner spark.

Doesn't remove the "high resolution pulse". It removes the high voltage spark distribution. Removing that removes the source of ozone generation, and its contribution to corrosion.

Originally posted by Injuneer
Doesn't remove the "high resolution pulse". It removes the high voltage spark distribution. Removing that removes the source of ozone generation, and its contribution to corrosion.

OK, I'm sorry that I was not more specific. I wasn't stating that the high res signal was removed altogether, its simply relocated outside of the opti...

Originally posted by scoobysnax83
OK, I'm sorry that I was not more specific. I wasn't stating that the high res signal was removed altogether, its simply relocated outside of the opti...

It isn't "relocated outside the opti".

The only thing you do with the LTCC is remove the coil wire and the 8 plug wires from the Opti. The Opti internals remain unchanged... although you could remove the rotor if you were so inclined. The optical "module" stays right where it always was and functions just like it always did. The little wheel is still there, spinning around, the light emitter is still there, the light receptors are still there, the high resolution and low resolution pulses are still being generated and sent out of the case in the same way. It's just how these signals are used at the PCM/LTCC end that is different.

Gotcha, I know that the high voltage fires the coils, but I thought that the LTCC generated the high res signal for the PCM. I'm sure once I get my hands on one (real soon) I will understand it better ;)

Jordan Musser bought/installed on of the dynospark units. He seems to be happy, as am I with my LTCC setup :D

I don't have to remove my old OptiSpark for this Conversion? All the LTCC needs is the Optical Sensor right? Does it matter which way I connect the plug wires to the Coils?

You need to leave the Opti case inplace on the front of the engine. You need to have the optical module in the case, and functioning. You do not need the rotor in the case (but you can just leave it in there, rather than rip the unit aprat to remove the rotor), and do not need to attach the coil or plug wires.

From the moderators point of view.... I would suggest that posts like how does it work and how do I install it be posted on "LT1 Tech". There are a growing number of knowledgeable people who post on that forum and have been using the LTCC unit for a while.

If this module plugs into the optispark, then what happens to the original plug that went into the opti, and thent to the pcm?

it goes into the LTCC

Its more of a inline harness. The ltcc more along the line T's into the wires for the opti so the computer still sees the signals

Has anyone found out how many things you can run off the white wire, such as window switches, shift lights, tachs? I had 2 window swithes, a shift light and my dash tach running off my MSD. If I connect all these up with the LTCC (MSD removed) the engine shuts off. I haven't had a chance to connect one at a time to see how many will work.

Originally posted by RonnieW
Has anyone found out how many things you can run off the white wire, such as window switches, shift lights, tachs? I had 2 window swithes, a shift light and my dash tach running off my MSD. If I connect all these up with the LTCC (MSD removed) the engine shuts off. I haven't had a chance to connect one at a time to see how many will work.

Interesting... although I'd wager that white wire is ment to be used to trigger a relay... then you can use as much current/devices as you wanted. :)

Originally posted by DirtyDaveW
Jordan Musser bought/installed on of the dynospark units. He seems to be happy, as am I with my LTCC setup :D

Jordan got the Dynospark free for "evaluation". I've discussed this a long time ago right after he got it - I don't think he can give an unbiased review on it; not that I think he'd do it on purpose, but just because of human nature.

I was looking at the LTCC myself, but wasn't particuarly happy with all the wires everywhere. After seeing several people's websites of their installs, I really didn't like all the wires.

I opted for the Delteq (http://www.delteq.com/products_opti.htm) instead. I personally prefer the lost-spark setup (larger coils have the potential for more spark energy even when the non-firing cylinder loss is taking into account), and I wanted to make my ignition system as simple as possible (it replaced an Electromotive SDI). I have some pictures on my website:

http://www.geek-racing.com/curt/ignition/Delteq

I haven't taken any completed pictures yet, but the car is back together and running great. Hopefully this weekend will be nice enough for me to back the car out of the garage and take some good pictures.

Looks nice and tidy. Especially with the plug wires not plugged in.;)
How much was this? $1,000.+?

Does it still interact with the stock PCM?

Hey Curt, Did you try to mount the coils anywhere else? I personally dont like the ontop of the valve cover spot as it doesnt look that visually great to me. I was thinking about the open spot near the fuse box. Any thoghts?

Originally posted by Curt (pres AAMC & ZAA)
Jordan got the Dynospark free for "evaluation". I've discussed this a long time ago right after he got it - I don't think he can give an unbiased review on it; not that I think he'd do it on purpose, but just because of human nature.

I was looking at the LTCC myself, but wasn't particuarly happy with all the wires everywhere. After seeing several people's websites of their installs, I really didn't like all the wires.

I opted for the Delteq (http://www.delteq.com/products_opti.htm) instead. I personally prefer the lost-spark setup (larger coils have the potential for more spark energy even when the non-firing cylinder loss is taking into account), and I wanted to make my ignition system as simple as possible (it replaced an Electromotive SDI). I have some pictures on my website:

http://www.geek-racing.com/curt/ignition/Delteq

I haven't taken any completed pictures yet, but the car is back together and running great. Hopefully this weekend will be nice enough for me to back the car out of the garage and take some good pictures.

yea, can you explain to us or direct us to a place that explains how the setup works. I'm interested... :)

Originally posted by scoobysnax83
yea, can you explain to us or direct us to a place that explains how the setup works. I'm interested... :)
http://www.delteq.com/opti_stage1.htm

Beautiful system!

I like it infinitely over the LTCC setup. Sorry LTCC guys! But, less wires and a full system offered. For under $700 thats great... :thumb:

Dirty - well under $1000 for their complete turn-key setup. However, I didn't buy the entire system from them. Since I was using a system that used the exact same coils, I used the new MSD coils I had just ordered from Summit Racing - those are not what comes in the kit. The MSD coils aren't any better though IMO, I just happened to have them sitting on my work bench; I had intended on installing them on the SDI but never got around to it. I also didn't get the plug wires from them either - I thought I could use my fairly new Magnecor wires since I was putting the coils in the same spot. However, they sit in a different order and I didn't like the way it looked so I replaced them with a new set of Magnecor's. I believe the wires they include are made to fit in the stock looms (under the exhaust manifolds/headers); they sounded very nice though.

kmook - no, I didn't try to mount them anywhere else. With everything in place and cleaned up, I think they look good on top of the valve cover. Hopefully some pictures of the completed project will show that. I have always tried to take great care in aesthetics. You could feasibly mount the coils just about anywhere you want, but the plug wires would have to be really long to reach all the way over to the corner where the original airbox was. They do have a kit that mounts the coil pack on the radiator fan shroud though. Haven't seen it in person, but that might be what you're looking for. I thought about it myself, but decided against it mainly because of how I had the SDI mounted, and because I didn't want any spark plug wires to be in the path of the serpentine belt - it can do a good deal of damage if it comes off the pulleys.

scooby - it replaces the stock ICM, high-tension side of the Opti and the stock coil. Everything except the Delteq box is off-the-shelf GM parts. The coils and ICM (the black plastic base the coils sit on) is from the Northstar. It doesn't add any new functionality; it uses the stock computer to control the coil packs. It's a great system that does what it's supposed to do. Like I said earlier, I wanted to simplify my car so I could enjoy driving it again. If you need more options on the system (window switch, timing retard, soft-touch rev limiter, etc) you can add the standard aftermarket boxes (like MSD) to it.

Originally posted by Curt (pres AAMC & ZAA)
scooby - it replaces the stock ICM, high-tension side of the Opti and the stock coil. Everything except the Delteq box is off-the-shelf GM parts. The coils and ICM (the black plastic base the coils sit on) is from the Northstar. It doesn't add any new functionality; it uses the stock computer to control the coil packs. It's a great system that does what it's supposed to do. Like I said earlier, I wanted to simplify my car so I could enjoy driving it again. If you need more options on the system (window switch, timing retard, soft-touch rev limiter, etc) you can add the standard aftermarket boxes (like MSD) to it.

I haven't examined it completely, but it looks like it includes everything to implement it, correct?

If you need more options on the system (window switch, timing retard, soft-touch rev limiter, etc) you can add the standard aftermarket boxes (like MSD) to it.

I think thats the best part!

Originally posted by scoobysnax83
I haven't examined it completely, but it looks like it includes everything to implement it, correct?

You can buy a complete kit, or you can get a "bare bones" setup. Give them a call (or drop them an e-mail) and they can tell you all the options available. What I bought was basically a bare bones plus ICM. They include all the hardware too which makes it really nice to install.

Originally posted by scoobysnax83
I like it infinitely over the LTCC setup. Sorry LTCC guys! But, less wires and a full system offered. For under $700 thats great. :thumb:

As long as you understand GM already had the DIS ignition available, when they designed the LS series engines. You can figure they had a good reason, i.e., felt it justified, to spend the extra/additional financial investment, to design/engineer, the 8 coil CNP setup, over utilizing the 4 coil waste spark system they already had. So, no need to apologize. Just a little FFT. :)

If I were to buy the barebones kit, how much would I be looking to spend on the coilpacks and where could I buy them from?

Originally posted by arnie
As long as you understand GM already had the DIS ignition available, when they designed the LS series engines. You can figure they had a good reason, i.e., felt it justified, to spend the extra/additional financial investment, to design/engineer, the 8 coil CNP setup, over utilizing the 4 coil waste spark system they already had. So, no need to apologize. Just a little FFT. :)

Yes, but either of those are better alternatives than the optispark utilized.

Yes but it looks a lot better and easier to work, troubleshoot than the LTCC.. The LTCC is massive in wires.. it will require a lot fo work to just make it unnoticeable.. maybe modified fuel rail covers to pin down all those wires ;)

And a few splices also...

Are there any coils from the ls1/6 engines that won't work with the ltcc and do all of them require "opti" style conections?

Also what are some other sources for the coils for the Deltec system besides the northstar?

Originally posted by Birdie2000
If I were to buy the barebones kit, how much would I be looking to spend on the coilpacks and where could I buy them from?


i called around to salvage yards and found the northstar ICM and Coil packs for aoubt $100-150 used.

the DIY kit from delteq is $350.

then you need some cut-to-fit wires, and make your own mounting bracket.

i *think* thats it.

is delteq simply using the ICM from a northstar? or are you referring to simply obtaining the coil packs? just curious as I have two opti changes to do right now and I am completely fed up with it... ready to pay and install something that works and I don't have to dread the soon to come failure bound to happen with the optispark. any help appreciated!

Chris

The Delteq includes the mounting brackets. And yes, the ICM is from the Northstar, but requires their box to run it. The coils used on this system are standard GM dual-tower coils that have been used on many different vehicles over the years. Accel and MSD make coils for it too (I am using the MSD's) if you're looking at aftermarket, but they're around $40/ea.

arnie - I don't really follow your logic behind the LSx ignition system; 8 coils don't always mean better, and I personally think it was more a cost/packaging solution. You could apply the same logic to the Northstar ignition system (i.e., a more refined and expensive engine using lost spark method equals better). Not that I believe that, just stating that as FFT.

Each system has their pros/cons, and both are an improvement over the factory setup on the LTx engines. And I don't mean the shortcomings with the Opti - I think it's a pretty good setup and is even better once the high tension has been removed from the unit. What I'm talking about is the improvement with the available spark energy to the cylinders when using mutiple coils over a single coil configuration.

I'm partial to the lost spark configuration myself; I've been using this kind of setup for several years now. Even my new car (a MINI Cooper S) uses this kind of ignition system. In all reality, I'm really happy to see that there are several solutions out there now other than aftermarket CD boxes that don't work well or a complete aftermarket stand-alone computer/ignition system that is overkill for many of us (and horribly expensive).

Originally posted by Curt (pres AAMC & ZAA)
arnie - I don't really follow your logic behind the LSx ignition system; 8 coils don't always mean better, and I personally think it was more a cost/packaging solution.

Curt, in condensed words, why design another system when the one already available is adequate? Was more a cost/packaging solution? 8 coils to 4, cost effective? :shrug: Not alluding to any facts at hand, or superiority of one over the other, just considering the 'direction' taken by GM.

Well after many monthes of reading I have came to some what of a conclusion.

From every thing I have read it looks like I will be installing the LTCC on my Blue car when the 427 goes in. It has the features i need for racing and running 300Hp N2O

YET If the wifes Red 95 Z28 needs another opti(We live in Seattle area) It looks like the Deltec would be beter for hers. It looks simple clean and complete.

I have Eight opti's here if you count the two on the cars! THEY are both less then a year old!

Originally posted by arnie
Curt, in condensed words, why design another system when the one already available is adequate? Was more a cost/packaging solution? 8 coils to 4, cost effective? :shrug: Not alluding to any facts at hand, or superiority of one over the other, just considering the 'direction' taken by GM.

I agree...

But... I also think that the coil on plug is to have a more accurate system regarding which cylinder is missfiring.. It is more accurate for missfires with 8 INDIVIDUAL than 4 splitted...

I also think that the 8 coils work a lot less and could provide a better spark...

The more individuality you get would mean that in future generations we could get an O2 sensor for each exhaust and have different timing offsets for every cylinder ??? it doesn't make much sense.. but it could happen for some reason...

Have you changed spark plugs on an LS1.. at the first moment it gets "angry" before it "relearns" the resistance of the plugs or something...

I do think that with the movement from the l98 to the lt1 it was a HUGE leap... and from the LT1 to the LS1 it was an even bigger leap and I always understand GMs movement towards things... If they used it in a real production car it means that it was better than an off the shelf thing.

So is now the time to drag GM into the courts and force a "RECALL" to commit GM to install an LS1-like solution? They fail to acknowledge the design problems. We could muster up 100+ incidents and design proof they they were incompetent and negligent.

Force GM to pay for LTCC and the labor!

Originally posted by Ultra_Dog
So is now the time to drag GM into the courts and force a "RECALL" to commit GM to install an LS1-like solution? They fail to acknowledge the design problems. We could muster up 100+ incidents and design proof they they were incompetent and negligent.

Force GM to pay for LTCC and the labor!

Can I have some of what you're smoking...

Maybe if any LT1 powered vehicle was still under factory warranty they could muster up a suit. But, I'm pretty sure that GM has washed its hands of the LT1....

If you leave your car stock the opti works just fine. If you don't put an aftermarket ignition and your waterpump doesn't go out it still works fine with normal higher output setups.

Most of the issues seem to come from

1) Aftermarket ignitions
2) Camshafts with too long dowel pins (aftermarket)
3) Water


2 & 3 can easily be remedied, but with extreme setups (1) is definitely required. Which is the big advantage of the LTCC - not that 8 coils are always better than one, but that you have removed the electro-mechanical high voltage interface.


Chris

So 8 coils are NOT better than 1?

Originally posted by The Highlander
So 8 coils are NOT better than 1?

I know you're asing a retorical question here, but of course they are :D

I think he is more or less saying that for the everyday Camaro enthusiast, it is not plausible to spend the extra dough, unless you need it.

I get you...

Chris B I disagree. The wifes motor is un-touched with stock ignition. We are on the third Opti since we have owned it. A little over two years. Then again it might be the average yearly rain fall here in the seattle area ;)

We had almost FIVE inches in 12 hours not to long ago ;)

Actually.. I doubt it rains more in a rainy day here and more often than here and I haven't had any problems...

No floods though... I would never ever put my car through a flood

Regarding the comparison between 8 and 4 coil systems, there are a few myths to dispel...

8-coil systems do not have an inherant ability to provide individual cylinder corrections any better than 4-coil systems...at least in the under 10,000rpm world that LT1's live in. This is because the GM ECM is able to send the same timing signal (that is cylinder-dependent) to a 4-coil module or an 8-coil system. A somewhat overlooked fact is that LT1's use a cylinder-dependent timing curve from the factory...with only one coil!!

As far as the power difference goes between the LS1 8-coil system and the Northstar 4-coil system, there is not much of a difference. The LS1 coils, when you are looking at things like dwell times and coil currents on an oscilliscope, are definitely much weaker than Northstar coils. In fact, there is really no comparison. The "leveling" of the playing field occurs when the LS1 coils are connected to a single spark plug with an 8" spark plug wire, then the Northstar coil is connected to two spark plugs and two longer wires. Naturally, the Northstar coil must overcome some small losses in the longer ignition wires and in the waste-spark cylinder.

However, the amount of energy actually lost in the waste spark cylinder is often overstated. An easy way to prove this to yourself is to shock yourself when you get out of your car on a cold day. The spark can jump over an inch with ease! So how hard is it for a big ignition coil to dissipate a little energy to jump a 0.050" gap on a waste spark plug that is not even undergoing the pressure of compression?? The answer is not very hard!! In fact, at least 85% of the energy of the coil ends up in the compression cylinder!

SO, make no mistake, it would be foolish to argue that an LS1 coil is more powerful than a big Northstar coil. However, given real world applications, there is a certain leveling of the playing field caused by the designs of the systems. But remember, if you need to run longer-than-LS1 spark plug wires for your LT1 with LS1 coils, you will definitely start to see a drop in plug energy. The LS1 coils were designed small because they knew that the spark plug wires would be short.

Pete

LT1 coils are not that much bigger than ls1 coils...

The fact that it can jump an inch without pressure means very little when you have 600hp pusing in there...

But I agree with what said above... why reinvent the wheel? obviously because it was a better route for many reasons.

Actually, stock LT1 coils are over 50% larger than stock LS1 coils...but I was referring to GM's waste spark coils being bigger than LS1 coils.

This may surprise everyone:

Northstar waste spark coil: 540 grams (1.19 lbs)
LS1 Coil w/ Integral Driver: 288 grams (0.63 lbs)

(Note that the LS1 coil also has the added mass of a driver circuit that is not in the Northstar coil.)


So a Northstar coil is TWICE the mass as an LS1 coil. When you consider that both use similar coil designs, and are subject to similar electrical efficiencies, the difference is clear...LS1 coils have roughly HALF the energy storage capabilities of Northstar coils purely on a mass basis! Looking at charge characteristics on an oscilliscope proves it on an electrical basis!

As far as lighting off 600HP, you are only lighting off 600HP on ONE spark plug at a time in a waste spark system. The other plug is arcing during the exhaust cycle, and is not at all subject to 600HP worth of pressure. It is, in fact, basically arcing in free air!!

8-coil systems are sweet looking and perform great, but when it comes to raw energy, properly setup waste spark GM coils are tough to beat.

1/2 of the total spark will go to one spark plug and the other half to the other..

They both light up at the same time.. which is the point.. add that to the shorter wire like you said and you have the difference there..

Energy is still wasted and 1/2 that energy/mass goes to one side and the other half to the other regardless wether there is pressure in the cylinder or not. and this is assuming that total energy is 100% dependant on mass..

No, the energy is most definitely not split evenly in two...

Why?

The circuit is, electrically speaking, two resistors in series, connected to a high voltage supply. The spark plugs are essentially just resistors. However, the electrical RESISTANCE of the two plugs is different, depending on which cycle the plug is on.

When on compression, electrical resistance is high.
When on exhaust, electrical resistance is low...very low.

So if we initiate a positive charge in one coil terminal and a negative in the other, the electricity must arc between the two plugs in order to complete the circuit.

well, if one plug has low resistance (perhaps just a little more resistance than a resistor core wire), and the other has high resistance, where is the energy dissipation going to occur? At the one with high resistance!! The high resistance plug is the "hot spot" in the circuit.

Picture a household toaster over. If the electrical energy was dissipated in your house wiring feeding the toaster as much as in the fine gauge wires that heat the toast, you would have a serious house fire on your hands! The reason the toaster wires get hot is because electrical energy is being exerted there...NOT in the low resistance copper wires leading up to the toaster. the reason the electrical energy is being exerted in the fine wires is because they pose an extremely high resistance to the flow of electricity!

Are you an electrical engineer? Just wondering.... this is interesting since I thought that electrons, like water or anything else that has pressure, would travel the path of least resistance.

Originally posted by DirtyDaveW
Are you an electrical engineer? Just wondering.... this is interesting since I thought that electrons, like water or anything else that has pressure, would travel the path of least resistance.

Exactly what I was going to say...

Another thing.. They cannot be in series... if they were in series one side will get more voltage (and less current) than the other....
Unless there is a switch for a change in path between which is going to be the first fired coil or the second... If that were so why not make them totally independent like the ls1s?

Another thing... if they were in series and what you say is correct.. If I loose 1 wire I automatically loose its neighbor spark... since they are in series... and that doesn't happen, now does it?

I guess that its a bit cheaper to have 2 plugs per coil since it will be one of everything with 2 outputs and 2 separate circuits which doesn't add much to the cost... Its still better than the LT1 system and since it can be implemented in more systems, costs come down.

and as said by Bob (LTCC) from this thread or another.. The ls1 pcm has a limitation in dwell time to produce a spark. with the LTCC that doesn't happen.

I would love to see a complete removal of the opti in exchange for the cam sensor.. but.. then you get this.. 94 cars hace one opti 95 up have another which adds to the cost of research and development unless you do an opti conversion. In which case why not leave it like it is with the lTCC?

Yes, waste spark plugs are in series.

Depending on spark plug loading and engine/coil grounding, yes, the removal of one wire in a waste spark can stop the other spark plug from firing.

Yes, I am a degreed Mechanical engineer, and have taken electrical engineering classes.

Electricity always travels the path of least resistance! However, in a series circuit, it is forced to travel through the circuit or arc internally to the voltage source (inside the coil). Since the coil is made with extemely high dielectric material, this does not happen (unless you get a crack in the coil encapsulent material).

SO, since the current must flow through the circuit, and there is an extremely high resistive element in the circuit, massive amounts of energy (heat, light, etc...) are dissipated there!

On a waste spark, one spark plug has a "positive" center electrode, while the mate spark plug has a "negative" center electrode. Since electricity flows from + to -, one plug gets build-up of material on the side electrode, while the other gets removal of material from the side electrode.

In fact, most OEM's using waste spark (Ford in particular) actually spec two different part numbers for the spark plugs from the factory. One plug has a platinum side electrode, and one does not. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself...

The reason they do this is that the platinum is only needed on the side electrode of the plug with a negative center electrode. So they save a nickel in platinum...

Anyway, that is way more than my $0.02 on the subject...I don't want to start any arguments here. I just wanted to clear up some commonly held misconceptions about waste-spark ignitions.

IIRC current flows from - to + and when you remove a spark plug or wire from one cable, the other cable of the same coil keeps firing... no matter which one you remove..

There are some new pictures on my website of the completed Delteq ignition system:

http://www.geek-racing.com/curt/ignition/delteq

They're not the best; I had to take them in the garage under florescent lighting using a flash.

Like I said earlier; I don't think one system stands out as superior to the other (lost spark -vs- direct) and am glad HOZZ4 stepped in to clear a few things up (although some of it seems to be getting lost in translation). When it came to a new ignition system for my setup, I went with what I felt was better suited to my needs.

The "why did they reinvent the wheel" argument is at best, weak(not that it was ground breaking; direct ignition has been around for awhile). DIS solutions were around when the LTx was built, but GM decided to go with a modified distributer setup with a single coil. Just because that's the way GM did it, does not mean that they were doing it for the right reasons. The Optispark was clearly a packaging/cost solution, as I believe is the case with the LSx configuration. GM still uses lost spark setups on many of their cars today as do many other engine manufacturers.

Ford is also using coil on plug setup for their v8s!

The why reinvent the wheel is not a weak argument from what i read on it, and... You said it correctly... "I". Its the most important thing.. because what "I" feel is what "I" believe.. its like H-beam vs I beam rods.. heck.. 4 cylinder vs 8 cylinder and turbo vs supercharger...

I guess its all a matter of preferene.. but lets say then that the lt1 is better than the ls1 because since gm chose the coil on plug they did it because of packaging reasons and not because it was a better move... so the same thing applies to the ls1, in which case GMshould have sticked teh northstar in the corvette in 1997 and the same in the 98 for the camaro ;)

Nice setup man, very clean. Where'd you get those billet wirelooms from? Do they just screw on top of those bolts from MBA?

Originally posted by The Highlander
The why reinvent the wheel is not a week argument from what i read on it, and... You said it correctly... "I". Its the most important thing.. because what "I" feel is what "I" believe.. its like H-beam vs I beam rods.. heck.. 4 cylinder vs 8 cylinder and turbo vs supercharger...

I guess its all a matter of preferene.. but lets say then that the lt1 is better than the ls1 because since gm chose the coil on plug they did it because of packaging reasons and not because it was a better move... so the same thing applies to the ls1, in which case GMshould have sticked teh northstar in the corvette in 1997 and the same in the 98 for the camaro ;)
Lets stay on the main topic here people :) Thanks.

Originally posted by Birdie2000
Nice setup man, very clean. Where'd you get those billet wirelooms from? Do they just screw on top of those bolts from MBA?

R&M center bolt looms from Summit Racing. Yes, they just sit on top of the MBA buttons, but you have to use a longer bolt. I ordered stainless steel Allen-head bolts from McMaster Carr.

I haven' been using an opti for over a year. I am using accel DFI with a HEI dual sync Distributor. Only problem is if I have to pull the Distributor I have to drop the Engine. so far I haven't had any problems.
My engine builder has also thought of a way to go without a distributor all together

cody could you post some pics of your setup

Curt,

I'm wondering, are you using the stage one or stage two kit which supposedly eliminates the opti completely??

I just ordered the stage 1 kit and was told that the stage 2 kit is still about 2 months away from beta testing and because I was buying stage 1 now was offered to be a beta tester for free. I picked up a complete coil pack with I.M. and bracket from a olds Aurora for $100.00 local to me could have gotten one cheaper if I was willing to buy one sight unseen from out of state. I will be mounting it back of firewall on a Porsche 944 with an LT1 engine.
Will be making my own plug wires due to long runs from the rear.

so i got 1 ?...... can i remove the rotor in the optispark? i have blown 6 of those into 1000's of fragments :(

You need to fabricate a plate to hold the optical disk on the shaft. Get a 1/8 inch thick round plate and drill the holes out to match the 2 bolt holes and the 2 dowel pins on the flange of the opti shaft.

I'm looking to purchase the LTCC setup and I was wondering where to purchase coils at?

Ebay item 7940889230 will work (D580, 12558948)

or www.gmpartsdirect.com

Bob

This may be a good alternative:
http://www.stealthperf.com/cgi-bin/store/84811.html?id=u75jkvzX

This may be a good alternative:
http://www.stealthperf.com/cgi-bin/store/84811.html?id=u75jkvzX

The MSD "Opti" is just a cap and rotor. I don't see that as a "breakthrough" replacement for the OptiSpark.

If the Cap and rotor are the parts that are always going out on the Optispark, and MSD has engineered a far supperior quality part, IE the optispark won't after 10,000 miles and you can run an aftermarket ignition system on it without burning it up, then a person wouldn't need a replacement at all now would he. I guess the question is how reliable is the MSD unit.

The optical sensor fails, the bearing wears out, rust from the bearing retainer plate blinds the optical components, the seals are not good, particularly in the harness connector tower. The MSD cap/rotor will not solve any of these problems.

The LTCC, Delteq and several aftermarket ECU setups remove the high voltage from the Opti, and typically discard the rotor - no help there from the MSD.

I ran an MSD box on the stock cap/rotor for 50K miles and never had a problem with the cap/rotor. It was the rust in the optical sensor that did mine in.

give it a try and let us know how it works.

MSDs new rotor is a new material, so hopefully that will keep them from flinging apart like so many of us have had issues with at high rpm/high power. Biggest thing is a better plastic (hopefully rynite like their caps, and also hopefully better screws holding it in place)

With that being said, the MSD cap/rotor isnt available yet. About 2 months ago MSD was quoted as being about a year away from being released when called.

What kind of warranty do they offer? I think that that is the real question. As long as they stand behind their work and back it up with a replacement when it fails within a reasonable amount of miles then that is fine by me. Keep trading them until you get a gem that lasts. There's always a few freaks that seem to work forever, like the 160,000 mile opti that was taken off my engine a few years back.

I'd be interested in a opti alternative but don't want to mount on the bottom front of car(rad.mounted) and also wish to keep my SS airbox. So mounting on drivers side valve cover is a no no. Does all the kits mount in these 2 locations?
Has anybody had any cons or disappointments from either of these opti alternatives? Seems like everybody is most pleased with whichever one they have chosen and have had no longevity problems or mechanical failures,is that true?

just hooked up the LTCC and the red light keeps blinking 4 times. I checked the wiring and everything seems right. IF any one had this problem and figured it out please write back.

just hooked up the LTCC and the red light keeps blinking 4 times. I checked the wiring and everything seems right. IF any one had this problem and figured it out please write back.

Your white wire is not getting the right signal.

Does the car start?

Bob

With that being said, the MSD cap/rotor isnt available yet. About 2 months ago MSD was quoted as being about a year away from being released when called.

I beg to differ. The MSD cap and rotor kit is available in the summit magazine right now. and its not too bad of a price, however that isnt going to change my mind about using an LTCC. I have installed too many of them not to get one myself. The difference in idle quality and how the car runs in general is reason enough for me to get one. Great unit! THANKS Bob Bailey!!!!

I beg to differ. The MSD cap and rotor kit is available in the summit magazine right now.
If you go to the online catalog, it indicates the unvented cap is available as of 2/26, and the vented version on 3/20.

whats all the fuss about? mines seems to be holding up just fine! ;)

whats all the fuss about? mines seems to be holding up just fine! ;)


see...that is what some people are talking about with the freak opti out there. i wish i had one like yours! im on number 3 right now. :D

Actually I think his is the standard.... it's the modified engines running high revs and excessive voltages (MSD) that causes most of the problems. The later vented-units are damn reliable.

Mine just past 190,000 miles. :)

Actually I think his is the standard.... it's the modified engines running high revs and excessive voltages (MSD) that causes most of the problems. The later vented-units are damn reliable.

Mine just past 190,000 miles. :)
:eek: MSD causes problems? I've had mine since 9kmiles and currently have 77k miles. Of course now I only turn it 6-6200 and rev limiter is set at 6400 ;)

My 94 was switched to a vented opti in 2001, it has about 14k miles on it. I am running a MSD coil and plug wires with autolite 104 plugs, I put down 540 at the wheels a few months ago so not all opti's are that bad.

Of course I'm jinxed now. ;)

my question is if and when i got to the LTCC... wil i still be bale to sue my Mallory 685 box? I dont want that $300 to go to complete waste...

No. You can't use the MSD box since the LTCC uses 8 individual coils while the MSD is setup to operate with only ONE. Sell the MSD on EBAY. You won't miss it at all. The LTCC setup is perfect. I put mine on in Feb 2003 and it has been flawless.

my question is if and when i got to the LTCC... wil i still be bale to sue my Mallory 685 box? I dont want that $300 to go to complete waste...

There are no aftermarket ignition boxes that will work with the LTCC. The LTCC black box does have a degree of adjustability for advance/retard however, so depending on your application losing the Mallory may not be detrimental.

If you're absolutely insistant upon having some type of aftermarket ignition control the MSD DIS-4 will work with the Delteq setup.

There are no aftermarket ignition boxes that will work with the LTCC. The LTCC black box does have a degree of adjustability for advance/retard however, so depending on your application losing the Mallory may not be detrimental.

If you're absolutely insistant upon having some type of aftermarket ignition control the MSD DIS-4 will work with the Delteq setup.


Well will the Mallory box work on a 97 Vortech? Cuz if so, when i get the LTCC then I will slap the Vortec with the Mallory box and my nitrous kit.

Well will the Mallory box work on a 97 Vortech? Cuz if so, when i get the LTCC then I will slap the Vortec with the Mallory box and my nitrous kit.

Should work as the Vortec uses one coil, a semi conventional distributor, and an ignition module that is nearly the same as an LT1.:cool:

LTCC in da haus! :D

http://host41.hrwebservices.net/%7Ewacostr/oholyp/engine%20pics/ltcc/PB150015.jpg


P

Congrats! I put mine just like that the first time. I opted for a couple of other setups before settling on the best combination of looks and removal access. I see you have a solid roller in your sig. What cam manufacturer/specs did you go with?
Nevermind, I went to your link:
"Cam: Comp Cam Custom Grind = .670/.670 lift(w/ 1.6) ... 254/260 duration ... 112 deg. lobe sep."
That's hella high lift. What's the drivability like?

One against new MSD cap and rotor. Will know more in the coming days but 1200 miles and the car died in at an intersection and would NOT restart. opti is working we have injecter fire and a three inch flame off the coil(MSD 6T and MSD coil) but NOTHING coming out of the High voltage side of the cap...

Looks like it is time to bite the bullit and get the LTCC or DELTEQ

Crazy.

Just for the record... my stock opti just passed 225,000 miles the other day.

Granted I have no engine mods and have the stock rev limiter still programmed... but I'm pretty sure the next engien will have to go LTCC just for the prevention issues alone.

whew glad I found this thread. I am thinking about going the LTCC route since my opti is dying. I am going to pull the opti soon and I was wondering if I'll be able to tell if the optical sensor is good or not upon removal. Because if its no good then I'll need a new opti for the sensor plus the LTCC system. If thats the case im just going to forget LTCC and get a AC Delco OEM and pray that it doesn't die on me.

anybody?

what part of the opti is dying?

The LTCC requires a healthy optical pickup so it can decode the cylinder numbers.

Bob

Most opti deaths are worn out cap and rotors and those a wear items that should be taken care of at tuneup time. Problem is most guys are not bright enough to understand that and blindly curse the opti despite the fact it is a good piece. Like said above the back half of the opti still has to function for all the "opti eliminators" to work so all you are doing is replacing a $150 cap and rotor with $600 worth of extra parts.

well im on my stock opti right now with 106K

I got the low-res fail code 16 stored. weird thing is, I remember the SES light coming on for about 30 to 40 seconds then dissapearing but my engine didn't shut up like its supposed to. and its been running rougher and rougher lately. Its got hiccups and the tach needle likes to bounce up and down with little jolts.

my stock waterpump went out recently so I believe thats why my opti is dying.

Either way I believe i'm going to have to pull off the current opti. I was just wondering how obvious it is to tell what caused to opti

any other thoughts on these setups?
old thread but i figured id bring it back up.

In my opinion, it's still really hard to beat the LTCC setup. I just bought and installed my second one. When the one year old stock opti went out on my (now sold) 94 Z28, to be sure it was the opti, I pulled the LTCC (plus the coils, plug wires) off my 96 (took 30 minutes max, point to point) and she fired right up. I sold the 94 with the LTCC still on it and just bought another. The LTCC has had a bit of an update. It used to come with one long lead/connector for each coil. You ended up with a 'bag of snakes' look in your engine compartment because it had to be able to reach coils from the Controller in both Impala SS(big engine compartment) as well as the Fbody. Now the LTCC just has one lead/connector for each cylinder bank (requires you to find a stock LS1 coil connector harness). I got all 8 used coils AND the wiring harnesses for them from the camaroz8 classifieds for $80 shipped.

I was wondering is the module included in the 400 or is it part of the seperate things that need to be purchased.

To what does the '400' relate? Can you tell me what post number in this thread is connected with that?
Thanks,
Dave

I was wondering is the module included in the 400 or is it part of the seperate things that need to be purchased.

Yes Wayne, the controller is included in the 400 (as in dollars, Dave?). :)