Danno...how close is this?

http://www.helixstudio.com/ssmd/camaro/camaro_ss.jpeg

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :bow:

That is great work! If the Camaro looks like that I might have to buy 2!

Looks good........but, that grille is starting to bug the hell out of me........it just screams SEDAN and not sports/pony/muscle car....:(

I'll need to see it, but I sure wish we could see one with more of a 2nd gen split bumper thru 4th gen, headlight/grille arrangement.....:) More of this flavor......

http://www.autosource.ws/yahoo/P0038069.jpg

That's all we need again, LS1/Chrysler big grills and headlights that flow into the hood.

Very nice, :eek:

i think if you threw the headlights off that on 90rocz's (maybe his concept, can't remember) concept (the blue one) and i think that would take the cake

Originally posted by IZ28
That's all we need again, LS1/Chrysler big grills and headlights that flow into the hood.

One question......didn't the Camaro have this same arrangement since 1970 1/2?!?:confused:

:bow: I'd love to see this is real paint, different wheels and hoods etc..(just for what if's..)...and taken to the next step in rendering!
From what I can see so far, this thing looks killer!...:bow:

This car really looks like the one that Danno described.

It's nice enough,but somehow it looks abit generic to me. I can't say that it immediately says "Camaro" when I see it....nor is it something that gives me goosebumps. I don't know...maybe it needs more attitude or character or something.

BTW Doug, I thought I was the only one that squinted really hard at the front end of the SL to see what cues I could steal for Camaro.

I wonder what Kris would charge to render it in 3D?!?:confused: :alert: :bow: :D

Originally posted by IZ28
That's all we need again, LS1/Chrysler big grills and headlights that flow into the hood.

Sheesh. I am sorry to report that the next Camaro will not be a carbon copy of a 3rd Gen. :p

2007/08 cant come fast enough:D

I wonder how it would look if the 68 wheel arcs were done in a much less "literal" way...say as a more angular line ?

Originally posted by johnsocal
2007/08 cant come fast enough:D

Man you gotta love all the concepts flying around in here right now!:cool:

Originally posted by Doug Harden
I wonder what Kris would charge to render it in 3D?!?:confused: :alert: :bow: :D

I was thinking the same thing. I'll throw in $5.

Originally posted by Z284ever
I don't know...maybe it needs more attitude or character or something.

I think vertically stretching the grille area slightly and losing some of the hood droop would do wonders. Not flat nosed, just a little stretching and tweaking. I putzed with it a little in photoshop, but Ive nowhere to upload it... :(

Its cool, but when I see the new Camaro I want to see something new. Not a two door version of something we've been looking at for two years now. Maybe Im just too picky.

Originally posted by Doug Harden
I wonder what Kris would charge to render it in 3D?!?:confused: :alert: :bow: :D

Can't...not...reply....

I would love to do a 3D rendering of the next Camaro, ever since these 2D drawings have been popping up on this board I have been itching to do it. I'm really busy these days working on SEMA projects and other cool stuff, but if there is enough support for me to do up a 3D model based on all the facts and drawings out there, I would definitely make time for it. I figure PHR might pick up on it as well.

I wouldn't feel right saying my time is worth more than any 2D artist's, so I won't name a price. Maybe donations would be a way to go. Just spent $5000 on new software and supplies, so any fundage is nice. Maybe the fine folks running CZ28.com could hook me up with a banner ad or something. Whatever the case, I'd like to make it known that I'm totally interested! If anyone wants to talk to me about this project, shoot me an e-mail, kris@carsbykris.com.

Kris

Originally posted by KrisH
Can't...not...reply....

I would love to do a 3D rendering of the next Camaro, ever since these 2D drawings have been popping up on this board I have been itching to do it. I'm really busy these days working on SEMA projects and other cool stuff, but if there is enough support for me to do up a 3D model based on all the facts and drawings out there, I would definitely make time for it. I figure PHR might pick up on it as well.

I wouldn't feel right saying my time is worth more than any 2D artist's, so I won't name a price. Maybe donations would be a way to go. Just spent $5000 on new software and supplies, so any fundage is nice. Maybe the fine folks running CZ28.com could hook me up with a banner ad or something. Whatever the case, I'd like to make it known that I'm totally interested! If anyone wants to talk to me about this project, shoot me an e-mail, kris@carsbykris.com.

Kris

No one is saying anything about whos better than who. You just have a real talent for making cars come to life with your 3-d peices. Now we have a great idea of what the next Camaro might look like in cartoon form, the next logical step would be to make it look as real as possible. You have the resources and ability to make it happen. If your serious about it, I'll do my part to help out with the fund. That is one expensive peice of software!:eek:

I'd say as soon as we "refine" the design....gotta' have a deadline (to make it happen)....then I'd be more than happy to donate to the "cause".

Kris, IF we could raise a few hundred dollars.....would that cover enough of your time to do this?

Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to raise that small amount of $$.....between CamaroZ28.com and the guys (alot of the same) at Cheers & Gears.com.....or am I dreaming?:confused:

Doug,

I think as far as deadlines go, if we want to get it in a magazine, we'd need it by the end of the month, if we want to be very thorough, it may take longer. I will try my hardest to meet any deadline that's set. I'd need one or two days to flesh out the body and another couple of days to fine tune all the details, etc. It all really depends on how many changes it will go through before we can step back from it and say "That's as close as it's gonna get for now."


Once some details are made known as to the rear of the car, a 360 degree spin animation could be done. As I mentioned in my last post, shoot me an e-mail and we can discuss it more. If I am going to do this, I'd probably need to have a contact to keep an active critique for it, like what evok and crispey are doing over on C&G.com. Just some thoughts...

Kris

The thing I really don't like about the concept at helixstudio.com is that the top of the front end looks too low. I want a fresh, new Camaro, not a rehash of twenty-year-old fourth gen designs.

OK guys, I did some modifying to this picture, but I need to know where to upload it so it will work and be able to be seen in full. I like the way it came out and I think you all will too. ;) :cool:

That's the first SS based rendering that I like :)

:thumb:

That's cool! It looks like it came out of Voltron! :D:bow:

Originally posted by IZ28
OK guys, I did some modifying to this picture, but I need to know where to upload it so it will work and be able to be seen in full. I like the way it came out and I think you all will too. ;) :cool:

if you want me to host it for you, let me know. i could hook you up with some space on my server to upload the pics to via ftp. if thats too complicated, just email them to me and i'll host them for ya :D djhafownz@cofs.net

Ditto! I have room and can post it up as soon as you can e-mail it to me. :D

Is there a site I can put it on myself (a good site, where it will stay sharp and be able to see in full view) so I don't have to go tou you guys everytime LOL?? :D If not I will e-mail it. :)

There used to be... but I gave up using those long ago when I found out my ISP gave me tons of sever space on my account... and I am able to remote link photos. :D

Post it at C&G and get some feedback. ;)

Originally posted by guionM
Post it at C&G and get some feedback. ;)

Post it there? That's where I stole it from, buddy!

Originally posted by Z284ever
Post it there? That's where I stole it from, buddy!

I guess that's what happens when one spends too much time away from the internet. :lol:

Not too shabby at all. I don't like the grill either though either :). It make me think of the FWD Impala. I just don't like it. I'd prefer the 5th gen to have it's own identity and not have that same ugly corporate grill. I will buy a Camaro because I want something a *different* from run of the mill hum drum transport.

Also I wish the wheel arches were a little more aggressively flared - like the recent 4th Penske Camaro race car. I think that given the curvacious shape of your concept.. that would look great. Headlight arangement look good too which is something a lot of concepts screw up on.

Otherwise... pretty sweet.

I like it

I havn't seen any information regaurding the return of the 4 windows, is that on the plate for the "chevy coupe"?

The front end might look a little goofy now, but I think ina a physical form it would look real nice, or maybe a 3D rendering even? (cough...KrisH...cough):)

thats a winner,but the hoodscoop does not go too well,maybe a small cowl induction.

Originally posted by Z284ever
http://www.helixstudio.com/ssmd/camaro/camaro_ss.jpeg

It's too tame. It needs to be less smooth and have a big grill and headlights.

I really like that, enough that I would definitely buy it, and that's coming from a T/A owner:eek:

The only thing is the slope of the hood, I can only imagine how far under the cowl that would push the engine!

Originally posted by TQdrivenws6
I really like that, enough that I would definitely buy it, and that's coming from a T/A owner:eek:

The only thing is the slope of the hood, I can only imagine how far under the cowl that would push the engine! Probably no further than on a 4th gen Camaro. Plus look on the bright side... the further back the engine, the more the weight is shifted towards the rear of the car. :D

Originally posted by TQdrivenws6
The only thing is the slope of the hood, I can only imagine how far under the cowl that would push the engine!

I was thinking the same thing earlier. Given the cab area doesn't look very big, that wouldn't leave much room for rear passengers. I'm not really worried about it though, it's just a drawing and all the proportions aren't correct.

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Sheesh. I am sorry to report that the next Camaro will not be a carbon copy of a 3rd Gen. :p

Seriously. It's getting old. Cars tend to progress from model to model, technology and federal standards permitting.

I think this depiction looks okay. Still too retro for me.

I really like the red one, but how would t-tops fit with 4 windows??

OK jg95z28, I will send it to you. :)

u should have sent it to me since he isnt on right now, lol

I'm always on!

BTW.... no e-mail.... yet ;)

lmao wuz up G :D

Sent. :cool:

Originally posted by IZ28
Sent. :cool:
http://home.comcast.net/~blackwoodgarcia/69camfan/camarov5.jpg

IZ28 yours seems a bit busy to me. It’s not bad. I feel like you forced the front end. I do not like the headlights and LT1 4thg en fog lights. I’m also in the 4 circular taillight camp so I’m not liking the wrap around’s. WE should keep playing with this pic though. I defiantly think the artists around here are getting somewhere.

I also like the fact that this design could have a Targa or T-tops along with a vert.

I with I had some sort of computer design program. All I have is paint and I can never produce the results I want with it.

Good try though IZ28, just not my taste.

i honestly think people should stop telling other people what the camaro "should" look like since the design is pretty much done with. why don't the people who know what the car looks like voice their opinion on what needs to be changed so that picture looks just like the car already under works? everyone else seems to have an opinion on what the camaro should look like, even though, like i said, it's pretty much done? not trying to flame anyone... just want this post to go to the right direction: what the car looks like and not what everyone wants it to look like.

Exactomundo :thumb: Lets keep this thing rolling. We have a good objective project going now, lets keep it that way.

Originally posted by Doug Harden
One question......didn't the Camaro have this same arrangement since 1970 1/2?!?:confused:

in what way? Thirdgens look nothing like a concorde. I think the MB design with the more pronounced headlights are a lot better. I think there should be a solid in body unit much like the 350Z for a cleaner line, and then HID lighs inside.

I was talking of the over-all arrangement of the grille being seperated from the headlights, and slightly below the beltline. The fog / turn lights also follow a pattern.

If you take a look at the front end of each generation from the 2nd on, there is a distinct similarity.....I really didn't need to remind you of that, did I??

Besides, I'm not so sure Chrylser's version didn't come out after the LS1 design did.....that and we all should know that designs don't happen overnight.....

Originally posted by Doug Harden
I was talking of the over-all arrangement of the grille being seperated from the headlights, and slightly below the beltline. The fog / turn lights also follow a pattern.

If you take a look at the front end of each generation from the 2nd on, there is a distinct similarity.....I really didn't need to remind you of that, did I??

Besides, I'm not so sure Chrylser's version didn't come out after the LS1 design did.....that and we all should know that designs don't happen overnight.....

Ah, I understand what you mean. yeah, as time went on it went from headlights in with the grill, then headlights outside of the grill, and then the grill got thinner, and moved upwards of the bumper. then it slowly slid back down, and on the third gens, sat below the headlights and its kinda stayed that way since 82. Im not sure what happend first, but the resemblence is uncanny. Stronger then the Grand Prix/GTO argument.... much stronger.

Originally posted by dj haf
i honestly think people should stop telling other people what the camaro "should" look like since the design is pretty much done with. why don't the people who know what the car looks like voice their opinion on what needs to be changed so that picture looks just like the car already under works? everyone else seems to have an opinion on what the camaro should look like, even though, like i said, it's pretty much done? not trying to flame anyone... just want this post to go to the right direction: what the car looks like and not what everyone wants it to look like. :bow: :bow: :bow:

This is going to be a long one and it has evolved somewhat as I read subsequent posts so I'm addressing stuff that has popped up since I began getting thoughts together for this. Here goes.

Disclaimer: None of what follows is meant to denigrate anyone's views or opinions, we are all looking for the same thing - basically. So, please do not interpret anything herein as flame.

First off, let me extend thanks to everyone who provided feedback on the SS based drawing. To everyone who would change this or that; - remember this by no means an official concept from GM so nothing is written in stone as far as the look, but... I, like Crispey (though I will not attempt to speak for anyone else) and others, put artwork together based primarily upon what was suggested on the Cheers and Gears forums by Evok through possible inside sources, I took the direction of building from the Gongos car aka the SS. To that end, since Crispey's front end was said to be very, very close excepting for the headlights size and number (at least in version 1), I basically grafted the spirit of it (though the result was not a perfect copy and was not intended to be) onto the SS.

For those with the inclination to build on the artwork out there, I'm not saying don't take it upon yourselves to doctor the images to your liking - go for it. Doing so however, distracts from what all of the effort was for in the first place IF you are incorporating details you would personally like to see and NOT the details or directions that are "leaked" by someone (supposedly) in the know. IMO there is a difference and that's how these threads end up going off on tangents and the original intent gets lost (though not always a bad thing).

Personally, I'm up in the air as to which way Chevrolet should go. I'll wait and see for myself when something concrete is available to digest. To that end, no matter what they ultimately do, someone, somewhere is gonna be p***ed off. One needs to look no further then these forums to see divisions popping up amongst the faithful - now over some third party artwork samples. I don't really see an SS based car - albeit with heritage styling elements as retro, - I do see it overall as a move forward, much more forward than the 3rd to 4th gen transformation was. Camaro has always been a car that evolved to reflect the times. So in some years it was less a street/strip terror and more a luxury tourer, so be it. Obviously a lot of things conspired to put the car on hiatus and the car will have to evolve again to better reflect the market. A straight evolutionary path from where it was in '02 may not be the best plan (make no mistake, I do love the 4th gen). After all, the resultant sales were tepid for a car the public at large didn't seem to want any longer and dealers didn't really want to sell. I know this applies at least locally since I can't recall seeing any new Camaro/Firebird on the lot, that wasn't special order, at any of our three GM dealers since basically 96. I have seen more used ones, though the majority have been on non-GM lots.

We have all seen a lot of banter about an upright/retro coupe versus a low slung evolutionary design. My piece has been labelled retro by some. Yes, it has heritage styling elements, but only as per Evok's inside information. I dunno, myself, I think the SS is pretty low-slung as it is and therefore more evolutionary (granted, not from the F platform per se, but certainly much more modern as far as packaging goes) as a starting point for a new performance coupe than say, KrisH's PHR featured, VERY retro rendering (sorry, no offense intended at all) or even the 4th gen car itself for that matter.

Some thoughts regarding my particular piece of artwork and the direction the "real" coupe is apparently taking:

I kinda rushed this out in order to get it online while the topic was hot. It has not undergone any treatment in Photoshop (yet:-) to make it more "real". The wheels and wheelwells were not scaled down to reflect 17-18 inch real-world sizes. In fact if you look close enough you'll see neither calipers nor lugs on the wheel/rotor combos:-). Speaking of perspective, some people noted a droop in the curvature of my front fender line - I'll attribute that to forcing the lines to straighten somewhat given the dramatic curves in the SS fenders that I started with. I suspect that it is a perspective thing. Headlight placement is untouched from the SS although I did scale them somewhat.

Do I think the chrome bar should be present, well no, not as it has manifested itself on the models already on the market - but it is a brand identifier - according to the marketing gurus.

The 4 headlight arrangement, the hoodscoop and the mirrors flowing from the fenders - a la 4th gen were mentioned as "insider" tweaks I believe in an earlier post sometime after Crispey's first rendering whose front end incidentally was reported to be quite accurate. - Nuf said.

I opted for the red bowtie because for me it symbolizes Chevrolet performance; not the gold bowtie. The Camaro's logo would look out of place on the grille as drawn and it's traditional location would render it virtually invisible anyway given the perspective of my drawing.

I incorporated rear 3/4 windows to neither mimic Mustangs nor to be retro, but because I think the Camar - oops there I go again - "Chevrolet performance coupe" needs them to dispel what I personally think is a claustrophobic rear passenger area (at least in the hardtop:-). The only heritage cue I truly hope doesn't make the cut, is the passenger side floorpan hump. But wait, is that not something that ultimately defines the Camaro? ( just kidding-:)

I would however like to see a stretched wheelbase perhaps back to 108 inches coupled with shorter overhangs. I thought the SS was huge especially since it was described as paying homage to Impalas of yore, 121 inch wheelbase 198 in overall, BIG - wait a minute, that 's only about 5 inches longer than a 4th gen. In fact the 4th gen car is longer than the new for '04 GTO - maybe not heavier. One thing on the SS that I think will have to be overhauled the most is the design of the dash - it's nice but it really harkens back to yesteryear - back before any Camaro hit the street. I would also like to see a more usable/friendly/accessible interior since I do have to sell this to my wife as practical for two, plus two small children.

Obviously what identifies the car as a Camaro as opposed to just a car with the name on it's trunklid to a buyer is going to be somewhat different for each person (I think) and as long as people can take something away from the actual car when it becomes reality that says 'yeah, it's a Camaro' to them, and they can be happy with that, then Chevrolet will have done a good job.

Periscope down, back to lurk mode....

Of all the concepts thus far, yours is by far my favorite. :metal:

Thanks for the kind words, it was actually a lot of fun to draw the car - it's been a long while - although draw is a misnomer since pencil never actually touched paper - it's all digital. When it's all said and done I'm not sure if I was actually designing the car (for real) it would end up going down this path, but I'm quite happy with it nonetheless and if it's close to what's really going on, I'm very anxious to see the real thing.

Since starting this exercise I've been looking at the SS cover shot on MT from last March and every time I see it, I see Camaro in the front 3/4 view - my opinion.

Wow,
You got the front of the car,.... down. The headlamp covers were tinted. The creases on the front fenders were not as pronounced on the car I saw (I understand that was a late addition). The profile looks correct the wheel wells were a bit smaller. The rear quarter windows were different. They were not from a '68 Camaro. The were set lower in the body and further back. They did not meet at a sharp point but were chopped and rounded ala 350Z. That's why I mentioned the car manufacturer could be Nissan.

I chopped your pic. Like this. I know it's drab but it won't offend the anti-retro crowd.

camaro_ss_gongos (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daniel.cervantes@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/GEN5_CAMAROSTUFF&.dnm=2ada.jpg)

I think I like that rear window better. Kind of reminds me of the 94-96 Mustangs though. :p

racing stripes could look bad ass on that car :thumb:

lets see a cowl hood on that too.

http://home.comcast.net/~blackwoodg...an/camarov5.jpg

WOW!, much better, the front end was pretty good, but NOW...MUCH BETTER!..I would buy this car..

Danno, I like the edit you made to the 3/4 window line - looks 70-72 Chevelle to me as opposed to Mustang. Evok alluded to covered headlights, I felt that he meant (semi-) transparent lenses as opposed to the RS covers from the first gen, smoking them would work too. I still don't think the drawing is what one would call retro....... just me though.....

Originally posted by 90rocz
http://home.comcast.net/~blackwoodg...an/camarov5.jpg

WOW!, much better, the front end was pretty good, but NOW...MUCH BETTER!..I would buy this car..
link doesnt work

Originally posted by SharpShooter_SS
I still don't think the drawing is what one would call retro....... just me though..... And me.

To me the design is evolutionary without trying too much to look like Camaros from the past. Sure it uses styling cues from previous generations, but then so did the 4th gen (it used styling cues from gens 1, 2 & 3) and no one has ever called it retro. :p

Correct link: http://home.comcast.net/~blackwoodgarcia/69camfan/camarov5.jpg :)

i like that newage flare, good work:D

I finished up some revisions to my original drawing. I have incorporated Danno's input and well, most of the modifications are subtle - very subtle.

I tinted the headlight covers, changed the 3/4 window treatment, scaled the wheel wells and wheels down and modified the spear lines and toned down the top of the quarter panel line and added red calipers to the brakes.

camaro ss take 2 (http://www.helixstudio.com/ssmd/camaro/camaro_ss_rev1.jpeg)

he original is still there for comparison sake.

Original drawing (http://www.helixstudio.com/ssmd/camaro/camaro_ss.jpeg)

Others have modded it so I decided to as well since it was well, mine - I have stuck with only implementing feedback from those who have seen the actual car or have inside info though - not that some of your points can't be deemed valid - sorry.

I would like to say that since the front end treatment was changed after the clinic Danno went to I think we will see some slight differences in the lower front bumper. Take a look at how the 00- current impala has two split mock air intakes on the front lower corners of the car and the C5 vette had a similar look. I would expect to see this styling feature on all new Chevys. I would also expect there to be a place for the front tag. I know the C6 doesn't have one but the Camaro is a little more mainstream than the c6. The Cobalt doesn't have it so I may be wrong but I would expect something on there like that.