Calling Danno!

If you haven't read this yet, take a gander at it.

I'd really like to get your thoughts on this and any input you want to add. :)

http://www.cheersandgears.com/boards/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13557

crispey2k's picture won't load for me.....:(

Danno was the first guy I thought of when I saw that thread.:)

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
crispey2k's picture won't load for me.....:(

Damn it!

It won't load for me either now! :mad:

Did anyone happen to save it? :(

Why is it down? Don't tell me GM is behind this :alert:

Yea, I was able to view it yesterday, but now it doesn't work for me either :confused: :confused:

Something sounds fishy :alert:

Could the image be retrieved from your cache? I looked at it on my home PC last night and forgot to save but I bet the image might still be in the cache!? I'll look this afternoon.

someone post this dang it! It's driving me crazy...

Originally posted by TA76
Could the image be retrieved from your cache? I looked at it on my home PC last night and forgot to save but I bet the image might still be in the cache!? I'll look this afternoon.

Please do!

no pics even at 11pm last night when I tried to view it..:(

I found the path to his files on that image hosting site. It looks like he took it down. Perhaps an improved version is on its way.

http://www.strike9.com/profile.aspx?name=crispey2k

Here it be...

http://www.wyattcon.net/images/F5Camaro.jpg

Originally posted by TA76
Here it be...

http://www.wyattcon.net/images/F5Camaro.jpg

:eek: wow....i love the second gen (i think my favorite gen) styling cues with the more sloped back end of the car. wow.......

I like it a lot, but too retro, not enough evolutionary.

I'm having problems with the fender flares, but maybe they will grow on me.

One other thing, I'm not sure if a retro influenced design can be dated or not, but if the Camaro may not return til MY2008 I wonder if retro may be played out. The really retro Stang will have been out since end of 04.

:eek: Even though I love that pic, theres no way they would let the real thing look like that.

The front end is a little to retro for me. But i do like the design. I would like to see it with an evolutionary front end.

Originally posted by Meccadeth
:eek: Even though I love that pic, theres no way they would let the real thing look like that.

I hope not. Its really well done and no one can deny Crispey's skill. But i just think that is ugly. The hood is to flat and boring and when i look at the front i cant help but think about the new mustang. I hope it doesnt look like that. I dont mind the fender flares tho.

But GM, Please Say NO to Retro
I think that cues from first gen are ok as long as it's not making it a blatant copy of it.

Too retro indeed...nice attempt though.

Nice try? I don't think some of us are understanding what we've been reading... this MIGHT be very close to the real McCoy! :D

Originally posted by TA76
Nice try? I don't think some of us are understanding what we've been reading... this MIGHT be very close to the real McCoy! :D I see a few of us actually "get it". :lol:

I like it..

:)

I like it too, but I was hopeing for a bit less retro.:p

its interesting...

cant wait to see a 68 retro camaro lined up against a 68 retro mustang....:rolleyes:

I liked how Camaro grew away from the Mustang formula...this is a step back to me.

I get that this may be what the 5th gen looks like. Again, I would much rather not have retro.

Retro makes a big bang at first, then it dies out after a couple years, where as evolutionary designs take a lot longer to become dated. Remember, designs of the past were dated at the end of their run (first gen Camaro more of an exception tho) The designs may get a second chance of life, but it wont last long.

Here we're actually getting some inside information as to what is going on with the 5th Gen's design in GM. :) I'm with most of you, I like the design but it's way too retro for me and looks like an attempt to copy the next M*stang's direction. :rolleyes: The 68 lines with 69 flares is a cool idea though. (but regular flares are better) Still, retro is not the way and I didn't think that we were gonna have to put up with it too. *doh*

I like the direction that this guy took and it's the way that I'd go: http://gerbonation.com/gengm/NOS/CamSketch2g.jpg It's basically Third Gen and 1st Gen mixed, looks really good even in that stage.

For some reason I don't "get it." Wheres this inside info at? All I see is a car sketch that Evok proposed.

Yeah,
I saw that thread but was not able to load crispy's image .....mmmm crispy's ... sorry had a light dinner. Anyways, the GONGOS styling clinic car had a very similar front clip. The '68 front end creases were definitely there but the grille wasn't as snub-nosed. The hood was tappered lower in front making the grille thinner. The grille was also tapered and sharper. The headlights were also covered like a Monte. The remainder of Crispy's Concept is way too retro and other than the rear quarter fender flares does not resemble the GONGOS car. Once again the car I saw was a Coupe version of the SS concept, like this:

GONGOS+styling+clinic+concept.jpg (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daniel.cervantes@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/GEN5_CAMAROSTUFF&.dnm=GONGOS+styling+clinic+concept.jpg)

If you graft crispy's front end to the GONGOS photochop and incorporate the differences I mentioned above you'll have it. If you re-read the original post I mentioned that the front-end of the concept was a little forced and it didn't really flow witht the rest of the car. Other than the front end, the concept coupe was "new and fresh"

For those of you that are new to this topic, here's the original thread. Note the date (almost a year ago).

GONGOS thread (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127096&highlight=GONGOS)

I actually like that alot. It certainly has retro themes but its not a full blown cop off of an older Camaro. Very interesting.

Originally posted by danno02SS
For those of you that are new to this topic, here's the original thread. Note the date (almost a year ago).

GONGOS thread (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127096&highlight=GONGOS)

With all the sensitivity over the Camaro name and bringing a new Camaro to light lately, I'm surprised that thread hasn't been locked down yet...

Not impressed with the Gongos car.

I think with a few tweaks here and there, they could turn it from retro to evolutionary. Like they say over there, nothing is final quite yet.

Wow, there's certainly more retro in that Camaro than the 2005 Mustang. I'm not a retro-basher so I think it looks good.

Originally posted by TA76
Nice try? I don't think some of us are understanding what we've been reading... this MIGHT be very close to the real McCoy! :D

Oh, trust me, I know what this is all about ;) I just "think" this attempt at it is a bit too retro compared to what the C-car may look like.

Hmm....so the letter writing campaign began on the 9th. On the 10th, Evok proposes somone come up with a photochop concept with apparent insider information (which he apparently needs to verify with someone before release.

Is this a "back channel" attempt by someone at GM to pacify us?

If it is...Crispey better get the chop done correctly!

Red? Hello? Is this thing on?

:)

I like the drawing, and the retro approach. The only thing I dont like is that Ford already did it. The last thing I want to here from my Ford loyal inlaws is that GM copied another Ford Idea.

On the other hand the Corvette isnt retro and I love that, too bad they cant sell those for 25grand:D

Yeah, but isn't the new Corvette a Viper copy? :D You have to admit, those front ends are pretty freaking similar :confused: :p

Originally posted by Ed 2001 SS
Hmm....so the letter writing campaign began on the 9th. On the 10th, Evok proposes somone come up with a photochop concept with apparent insider information (which he apparently needs to verify with someone before release.

Is this a "back channel" attempt by someone at GM to pacify us?

If it is...Crispey better get the chop done correctly!

Red? Hello? Is this thing on?

:)

Yeah, that's what it sounded like to me too (conspiracy hat: ON). What I find so hilarious is that GM probably got word that Ford was going "retro" on the Mustang early on and decided to follow suit knowing the Mustang would be a big hit. Now they're hearing all the retro hate from the boards and want to soften everyone up to the idea it might be retro.

I think it'll make little difference personally. Even the foaming at the mouth retro haters will claim it the greatest Camaro of all time and happily change their tune. After all, they're loyal aren't they?

I am a retro hater......

Do I like the look? Yes, very much? Do I think it is the CORRECT path for the car to take? No.....that's why I don't like retro.

Same deal with the mustang...I don't dislike Retro because its ugly..on the contrary, I think its a good looking car, but I just disagree with full-out retro as a design concept because it boxes you in and does not evolve the name at all.

Getting back to simpler roots is great, but if I wanted a '68 Camaro I'd go buy a '68 Camaro.

I think you way-oversimplify the anti-retro crowd.

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
but I just disagree with full-out retro as a design concept because it boxes you in and does not evolve the name at all.

I think you way-oversimplify the anti-retro crowd.

I disagree. I think it gives you a new direction to grow. Here's an example:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~topnotchpics/Cougar.jpg

That's a photochop of a 2005 Mustang. What one could be changed to look like a Cougar. It borrows from current cars and still retains much of the 2005 Mustang's lines.

I'm not way-oversimplifying the anti-retro crowd. I just think their arguement is weak.

Originally posted by PaperTarget
I disagree. I think it gives you a new direction to grow....


I'm not way-oversimplifying the anti-retro crowd. I just think their arguement is weak.

How can retro styling give you a "new direction" when it obviously travels down a path that has already been traveled?

I don't think you can successfully argue that a retro design presents more ways to evolve the nameplate than a fresh, new design that stands on it's own.

The very idea of retro styling, in and of itself, is repetitive.

I can't believe i'm stepping into this fire again, but....

I liked the concept too, but for my tastes it was a tad too retro and not evolutionary/revolutionary enough. Now if you changed it as the other post indicated, lower the front of the hood and make the grill slimmer, you're onto something.

I don't know if I accept the idea that retro is a form of 'reset' buttom either. But to each his own and more power to all of us.

Am I the only one who can't see Crispy's link?:cry:

No, his link has been down for days... I think he pulled it because he is working on the next round of changes. See my earlier post for a link to the image that was on his site. I might pull it myself very soon because of traffic.

There was/is another link about halfway down the first page that I think is working.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
How can retro styling give you a "new direction" when it obviously travels down a path that has already been traveled?

I don't think you can successfully argue that a retro design presents more ways to evolve the nameplate than a fresh, new design that stands on it's own.

The very idea of retro styling, in and of itself, is repetitive.

Did you even look at the image I linked? That's a new direction right there. Many here still can't accept that the 2005 doesn't look like a 1968 Mustang. Why I don't know. Comparing the cars side by side shows the OBVIOUS differences. The 2005 Mustang has old and new styling cues. It's not like Ford is starting over, they're bringing back the spirit of the car. They can go a lot of places from where they are right now.

I don't think a fresh, new design is any more viable for growth than an older one. In fact, if they bring Camaro back and it looks nothing like the older ones, not one styling cue, then is it really a Camaro? Maybe only in name. But the spirit of that car will be dead. If I buy a Camaro, I don't want it to be a rebadged Australian car. Sure, it'll probably be nice, but it won't be the same.

Originally posted by PaperTarget
Did you even look at the image I linked? That's a new direction right there. Many here still can't accept that the 2005 doesn't look like a 1968 Mustang. Why I don't know. Comparing the cars side by side shows the OBVIOUS differences. The 2005 Mustang has old and new styling cues. It's not like Ford is starting over, they're bringing back the spirit of the car. They can go a lot of places from where they are right now.

I don't think a fresh, new design is any more viable for growth than an older one. In fact, if they bring Camaro back and it looks nothing like the older ones, not one styling cue, then is it really a Camaro? Maybe only in name. But the spirit of that car will be dead. If I buy a Camaro, I don't want it to be a rebadged Australian car. Sure, it'll probably be nice, but it won't be the same.

Yes, I looked at the picture... and it looks liek a 2005 Mustang converted to a retro Cougar, just like they did back in the 60's.

Even the designer of the new Mustang says it is retro.

If you put the two side by side, yes there are differences, but just about everything on the car is based on or meant to look like part of a 60's Mustang.

Regardless, the position that blatant retro styling is a bold, new direction is a complete oxymoron.

Originally posted by PaperTarget
Did you even look at the image I linked? That's a new direction right there. Many here still can't accept that the 2005 doesn't look like a 1968 Mustang. Why I don't know. Comparing the cars side by side shows the OBVIOUS differences. The 2005 Mustang has old and new styling cues. It's not like Ford is starting over, they're bringing back the spirit of the car. They can go a lot of places from where they are right now.

Obviously the car is not a carbon copy, it is, however, a very literal modern interpretation of the original. Perhaps you cannot accept that fact....

I don't think a fresh, new design is any more viable for growth than an older one. In fact, if they bring Camaro back and it looks nothing like the older ones, not one styling cue, then is it really a Camaro? Maybe only in name. But the spirit of that car will be dead. If I buy a Camaro, I don't want it to be a rebadged Australian car. Sure, it'll probably be nice, but it won't be the same.

Has anyone, Darth included, ever suggested that the next Camaro share NOTHING with the past cars? I don't think so, what we'd like to see is an overall design that is modern and evolutionary yet contains heritage CUES. To suggest the '05 Mustang does that same thing is laughable....it not only is chocked full of cues but its whole overall sillouhuette is inspired by the original.

I think you are exaggerating the arguments of non-retro folks in an attempt to show that we're wrong or just stupid.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Yes, I looked at the picture... and it looks liek a 2005 Mustang converted to a retro Cougar, just like they did back in the 60's.


How does that look anything like a retro Cougar :confused:

Originally posted by PaperTarget
How does that look anything like a retro Cougar :confused:

I was kind of joking.. ;)

Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
Obviously the car is not a carbon copy, it is, however, a very literal modern interpretation of the original. Perhaps you cannot accept that fact....

Has anyone, Darth included, ever suggested that the next Camaro share NOTHING with the past cars? I don't think so, what we'd like to see is an overall design that is modern and evolutionary yet contains heritage CUES. To suggest the '05 Mustang does that same thing is laughable....it not only is chocked full of cues but its whole overall sillouhuette is inspired by the original.

I think you are exaggerating the arguments of non-retro folks in an attempt to show that we're wrong or just stupid.

First off, I don't think there are very many stupid people on this board. That being said, there are quite a few biased ones, BUT THAT'S OK! I have no problem with people being biased as long as they can admit it.

Second, I think the new Mustang is heavily influenced by the 60's Mustangs in several ways, however, I also see heavy influences from the late model Mustangs as well. That I think is being ignored outright by many of the anti-retro crowd.

Third, what do you consider heritage styling cues on a Camaro? What years would you get them from? I guess we'll have to wait and see what the next "Camaro" will look like though.

BTW, the sillouhuette of the 2005 Mustang is closer to the 2004 Mustang than it is the 1968. I've already seen the sillouhuette comparisons on the Mustang sites.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I was kind of joking.. ;)

Kind of? You were beginning to scare me :p

Originally posted by PaperTarget
Kind of? You were beginning to scare me :p

:lol:

Just trying to lighten it up a bit.

But I still stand firm in my beliefs, dammit! :p

Heh, nothing wrong with that. I come off a bit stubborn and blunt sometimes, but I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings or start fights :mad: I just think if something looks good, who cares if it's retro or "retro" :D I just see so many differences in the 2005 Mustang that it's hard for me to see it as retro. I own a 1967 Mustang so it's easy for me to see the differences and there are a lot, inside and out.

I wouldn't mind adding a Camaro to the list of cars I've owned. I have lots of friends/family that have owned them. At this point in time they just don't offer (offered actually) what I'm looking for. I'm not loyal to any one brand or country as far as cars are concerned. My daily driver is an AWD Japanese car. I like to try everything. I'm looking forward to the new Camaro if it ever comes out.

Originally posted by PaperTarget
First off, I don't think there are very many stupid people on this board. That being said, there are quite a few biased ones, BUT THAT'S OK! I have no problem with people being biased as long as they can admit it.

Let me rephrase:

I think your exaggerations imply that we are unreasonable in our objections to retro.

I think those of us who can't understand why someone wouldn't consider the 2005 'Stang feel your pain.:D

i still say it's retro and I know why:D

That couger thing is bad ass. wayy better than the stang it is based on.

retro is cool with me...you get a much better ride and drive, and get the flair of the originals. I used to say( before they started doing it) that they should build modern versions of "hallmark" cars....I don't thing anyone wants to see a neo-retro Gremlin.:lol Ford has takin to remaking there whole 50/60's lineup.:rolleyes:

I would love to see some fins myself...I hated the new T-bird because they left the fins out.:mad:

My first look at the car, if anyone cares, is it's too 2005 Mustang like...I mean, too close to the Fabulous 1st Gen...it needs to go the direction of the C6...modern looking..but hints of the past so subtle it just whispers... c a m a r o ......

Originally posted by danno02SS
Yeah,
I saw that thread but was not able to load crispy's image .....mmmm crispy's ... sorry had a light dinner. Anyways, the GONGOS styling clinic car had a very similar front clip. The '68 front end creases were definitely there but the grille wasn't as snub-nosed. The hood was tappered lower in front making the grille thinner. The grille was also tapered and sharper. The headlights were also covered like a Monte. The remainder of Crispy's Concept is way too retro and other than the rear quarter fender flares does not resemble the GONGOS car. Once again the car I saw was a Coupe version of the SS concept, like this:

GONGOS+styling+clinic+concept.jpg (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daniel.cervantes@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/GEN5_CAMAROSTUFF&.dnm=GONGOS+styling+clinic+concept.jpg)

If you graft crispy's front end to the GONGOS photochop and incorporate the differences I mentioned above you'll have it. If you re-read the original post I mentioned that the front-end of the concept was a little forced and it didn't really flow witht the rest of the car. Other than the front end, the concept coupe was "new and fresh"


Thanks for the imput Danno! :thumb:


To everyone else, how did this retro debate start?? :confused:

I can understand how it started befor Danno's post, but since he said the car he saw looked new & fresh, and just the front of Crispy's car and some of the rear quarter panel flares were on the car he saw, and that he posted a photo shop of the car he saw, I don't see why we're still having a "retro" discussion at all?

To me it sounds like the "CAR" is going to be a good looking fresh ride. :)

Originally posted by guionM
[To everyone else, how did this retro debate start?? :confused:

I can understand how it started befor Danno's post, but since he said the car he saw looked new & fresh, and just the front of Crispy's car and some of the rear quarter panel flares were on the car he saw, and that he posted a photo shop of the car he saw, I don't see why we're still having a "retro" discussion at all?

To me it sounds like the "CAR" is going to be a good looking fresh ride. :) [/B]

I think it's a combination of alot of passionate opinions over what is and isn't retro along with should the next car be or not be retro and then it just snowballs from there.

I think Ive made it clear where I stand on both issues:)

We looking at the same car Guion?!