Camel backs or AFR 195`s

well I can get a set of Camel backs for $1300+tax

Specs:

2.02 1.60 stainless steel valves
Comp cam springs
comp guid plates
screw in studs
retainers and seals
Bowl job and gasket matched

or

pay $2400+tax and get a set of AFR 195`s

I`m leaning to the camel backs since they are a good head and there rebuilt for $1000 less

What do you think. There going on a 383 with a comp 282S and a Team G intake. Going for 400-450hp

And I`m canadian so the prices up here are WAYYY more:mad:

Are you talking about the old camel hump heads that came out in the 60's?

Originally posted by 97WS6SCharged
Are you talking about the old camel hump heads that came out in the 60's?

I'm buying a rx7 that has a 355 swap in it. It has those heads. I know they are old but how good are they? What should I be looking at getting instead? This care will be driven everyday also.

Unless I am mistaken, camel back heads are steel heads which adds more weight to the front and is not as good as the aluminum heads for heat dissipation (must run lower compression)

I'd go with the AFR 195s

Not to mention that the AFRs have the benefit of 30+ years of technological improvement.

Originally posted by Chris`s85Z28

pay $2400+tax and get a set of AFR 195`s



from who:think:


2400cnd semes high:irk:

Well I know the engine is running low compression. He said he set it up that way because he drove it everyday. As will I. And with the gas prices they way they are I don't mind that a whole bunch. But how many hp would I get by getting say vortech heads over these? Or some other head that would be better thats going to cost oh around a $1,000. I know the engine is set up to run 87 octane gas.

A cheap set of protopline vortec heads will likely outflow the camel hump heads unless they got alot of work done too em. They are also ALOT cheaper. I see them go new on ebay for like $600 all the time.

CC-282S (SL) .570/.570 282/282 (236/236)

Is that your cam? I'd say run protopline vortec heads sept for the lift, they'd require more machining for that.. that'd easily reach your 400hp goal for less than $600 :) You can get Pro Action 200CC Aluminum Heads for $1k assembled on ebay with nice parts. I'd pick those over the camel humps ANY day of the week.. Its likely that they outflow the living piss out of any camel humped head you can find :) Most camel hump heads start off with 160-170 intake cc's and weigh a good 50-75lbs more than aluminum heads. You will also reach your 450hp goal pretty easily using those. FWIW: My bro has ported AFR 190cc heads on his turd gen, using a 230/236 cam.. they are freakin awesome.

Peace,
Josh

Originally posted by sleepybu
from who:think:


2400cnd semes high:irk:

Man if you know where to get them cheaper tell me.

Agostino Racing in toronto there the AFR dealer that is closest to me

They had a silver LS1 Z28 runing 8`s in the 1/4 it was in hotrod I think. They said it`s the fastest street legal LS1 camaro that they know of:bow:

I thought the camel backs were iron?
They are the Camel back from the 60`s
Any on have a link to those protopline vortecs?

The compcams 282S that I`m looking at is:
XS282S-10

dur 282in 288ex
dur@.050 244/252
lift .520in .540ex
LSA 110

vortec heads are far better than even ported camel hump heads. (not camel back).

Dude, do some research. You're going to need some compression, at least 10-1 minimum, and that cam you are looking at is too big for the street. Always err on the conservative side. Something in the 220-230 range is the biggest you'll ever need on the street. My little 355 with AFR heads puts out about 430 hp with a little 218/224 hydraulic roller cam, it has great street manners and even gets decent mileage.

Originally posted by stealthramman
vortec heads are far better than even ported camel hump heads. (not camel back).

Dude, do some research. You're going to need some compression, at least 10-1 minimum, and that cam you are looking at is too big for the street. Always err on the conservative side. Something in the 220-230 range is the biggest you'll ever need on the street. My little 355 with AFR heads puts out about 430 hp with a little 218/224 hydraulic roller cam, it has great street manners and even gets decent mileage.

220/230 @.050 right?

I was talking to HeavyChevySS and he said he had a smaller cam in his 383 and diddn`t like it at all he was running high 13`s in the 1/4 he said he`s putting the 282S in his 383.

you also have a rollercam, I have a non roller block so I can`t put a roller in. Well I can but they cost $1200 for a cam and lifter set:eek: so I`m going Soild flat tappet and after the 383 goes in it`ll be a weekend car only. so I don`t really care about gas mileage and she`ll be seen the track alot:D and I REALLY want the mean ass idle that will come with this cam, I want people to know I have somthing big under my hood:D

But if you know of a soild flat tappet Compcam that is simaller to your roller I`ll check it out. Oh and I`m going with a 10-10.5 CR 94 oct should handle that.

I REALLY want to dip into the 11`s N/A and no bottle, So I guess I`ll save up for the AFR 195`s

afr heads is the way to go. with a 383 you should actually consider the bigger afr's. 195's are designed to be a street head with smaller port volume and high velocity. with a 383 you should go to 210's or something like that. There are also some other good heads out there (like Brodix etc) that might be a bit cheaper than afr. I'd suggest checking out mail order houses before you drop big cash at Agostino's.

An aluminum head lets you go to higher compression which allows you to regain some of your lost driveability with the big cam. AFR heads have an awesome chamber design, so you can (and should) go to at least 11-1. that cam would probably work for you using the higher compression. go with a flat top forged or good hyperutectic piston, (not domed) set up the rest of the intake to match the flow rates, and you'll be golden.

Don't forget, that T5 will never handle the kind of power we're talking about here. (T5's will die on the track with good traction behind a decent 305.) Strip cars are faster with an auto. Watch the body flex on the t roof car also. You'll pop the t's right out on a hard launch. (i've heard of it happening). You might be better off with a hard top.

just my .02 from someone who's been there.

Originally posted by Chris`s85Z28
Man if you know where to get them cheaper tell me.



are they the fully cnc'd ones:think:

try summit or jegs. they're some of the cheapest sources for hipo parts

I'm gonna be running the 282S in a 383 with AFR 195's this summer. I've already ordered the 195's and I can't wait to get this beast on the street.


I'd leave the camel humps to the antique collectors and get some Vortec heads at least. However, you'll need some upgrades on those to run a cam with any lift. I don't know what you plan on doing with the car, but you couldn't pay me to run a flat-tappet cam with less than 230@.050 duration in a 383. Of course I'm all about balls out performance, and I really couldn't care less about any power below 3500rpm.....:)

Forget the camel hump heads- they're old technology. Far surpassed. I agree with many of the posts here about head choice. Vortecs (cast iron) or AFRs (aluminum). Here's my comparison of the two, having used both:

Vortecs are cheap ($650 a pair, dead stock). They flow pretty well on the intake side, exhaust is kinda weak but the chambers are very efficient. Upgraded springs and such are a must if you're going to be using the Comp 282 cam (hydraulic or solid). Stock Vortecs can't handle more than about .470 lift and the springs are not strong enough for ANY performance-oriented cam. Look at Scoggin Dickey's Vortec heads that are already upgraded with better springs, screw-in studs, guideplates and clearanced for high-lift cams if you go that route (~$850 for the upgraded heads). The big "gothca" is that they require a Vortec-specific intake manfiold to bolt on top of them. It's more than just the different bolt pattern of the intake- the Vortec ports are about 1/4" taller than "older" SBC ports and older "standard" intakes don't match up well with them. http://www.SDPC2000.com

AFRs are about the best out-of-the-box heads you can buy. Everything flows well, good chambers. Very few downsides. For a set of 195s that will work with that cam you should pay about $1350 fully assembled and ready to bolt on. ONLY order them directly from AFR. "Cheap" AFR heads are usually their bare castings bought and machined by somebody else and sold for less money. 90% of the "magic" of AFR heads is their proprietary CNC work done to the ports and chambers. ONLY buy DIRECTLY from AFR. And expect to wait 4 weeks to receive them. All AFR heads are fully CNC machined from AFR- ports and chambers. It's just what level of porting they throw in the computer milling program. For the real truth, check them out at their website and/or call their very knowlegable tech guys and ask some questions. They're about the only heads that actually flow what they claim on their website in the real world. http://www.airflowresearch.com/

For my money these are the only two out-of-the-box heads I'd consider these days, if buying new. Vortecs for budget performance, AFRs if you're after more power and have more money to spend.

Thanx for the help I`m going with the AFR`s

This is my setup I`m going with

350 4bolt main block with head and main studs
Scat 3.75" cast steel crank
Scat forged 5.7" rods with ARP bolts
KB hyper flat tops
AFR 195 or 210`s
Team G single plan intake
Holley 4150 750cfm mechanical secondairys
Compcams XS282S-10
10.5:1 to 11:1 CR

450 HP here I come :bow::D I hope thats enough for 400-450hp?

I`m going to spin it to 6500-7000 RPMs. I`m not sure if my bottem end will handle 7000rpm?

now for the pistons will they LAST pumping around 450hp? or should I just take the loss and get forged?:confused: this engine will never see spray or a SC.

specs for the car

SFC and 6 point cage
T-56
12 bolt 4:10 posi with disc brakes
BFG Drag radials
Aluminum drive shaft
Center force dual friction clutch
susption modds to make it hook up
4" custom cowl hood
3" duels with cutouts 2 cats and a H- pipe with Flowmaster 40`s exiting out in front of the rear tires.
3 point strut tower brace
bars welded to the frame rails and fire wall to stop twisting
12 gallon fuel cell
battery in the hatch
painted Sunset orange metallic with black racing strips like the 69 Z28
383 4barrel bage on the back bumper:bow: off of some old mopar

things that are getting deleted
rear seat
A/C
radio
insulation
speakers
spare tire /jack
heater

Now, do you think I`ll run low 12`s high 11`s with this setup?

I`m hoping the engine will be done summer of 05 and the whole car by summer of 07. I only have the bottem end:(

As you can see I`m building a street strip car nice weekends only and maybe a friday or two:D

a good head to use inbetween the vortechs & 195 afr's is the 195 protopline's exellent flow #s and can pickem up for about $900 bucks complete

That setup looks like it would work. With the afr 210's and 11-1 compression you might be closer to 500 hp at the motor near 6500. You won't have trouble getting into the 11's with that combo, an automatic, and some sticky tires for traction. It'll be a bit more challenging to get there with a 6 speed, but it can be done using good suspension peices and a strong rear end.

Chris85Z28, You seem to be building the exact same car as me, only I'm using a Th350 and a 3500 stall converter.

My car has:

Moser 9" rear with 4.11's
VFN 4" 'glass cowl hood
hardtop
No A/C from factory, only a heater
AFR head 383 with 10.5:1 compression
Speed Pro hypereutectics, SCAT internals
XS282S cam
SFC's
Spohn Torque arm
Manual Steering box
battery in rear
Team G single plane intake

And of course the usual compliment of go fast goodies that are too numerous to list.


The one big difference is that I'm planning on cutting the rear floor to make room for 3" exhaust that will exit under the car before the rear axle. I'll continue to post on this board when its done, I'll be sure to let you or anyone else know what it runs when its finished.

Hey 95nateZ28 our cars look simaller only I can`t stand autos I know there better for draging but I LOVE running through the grears:D my S-10 beater is even a 5 spd.

When do you plan on yours being done? I want to know how you are going to run your exhust I`m not scared to cut the floor if I think it will be better for the car. and I will want to know how she runs hopfully your in the 11`s that would be cool.

I stared this project thinking I`m going to build a 350/350hp engine now look at it. I know it`s over kill but hey I wont need to fear any cars on the road lol. well exept one we all know who that is I`ll give you a guess it has lights on the roof. I have one year to build my engine and tranny I hope i can get it done. But if I`m running 500hp buy the time I`m done WOW I`ll be one happy camper thats like 400rwhp 20%drive train loss.I`m running about 220hp in the Z28 now, I CAN`T wait. Good luck with your Z28

With the budget I'm on for the car, I'm seeing about mid-July when it is running and driving. Maybe sooner, but I don't wanna jump the gun.


I'll take pics of the exhaust setup too.

That combo whould make about 450 REAL HP. I don't think you will need to spin it to 7000 to get everything out of it. The longer stroke 383s make the power at a lower RPM than a comparable 350 would. 6500 should be about as high as you need to go for best performance.

Good rod bolts (I like ARP wave-locs), well-prepped rods, a well-prepped crank and you should be fine. If it was me I'd even use a cast stroker crank and stock rods with the KB hyereutectics and wouldn't even be nervous about it. If you're the nervous type then a forged crank, upgraded rods and forged pistons would be sensible upgrades. Proper machine work, careful attention to clearances, cleanliness and perfect assembly are ulimately better insurance than expensive parts, in my opinion.

Damon what your saying my bottem end Scat cast steel crank, Scat forged rods with ARP bolts, and KB hyper pistons will hold up I`ve never built an engine befor so I don`t know what will hold and what wont.

So I`m going with the AFR`s although I heard there springs suck so I`ll just get a set of Comps to go with the XS282S.