cementing bottom 1/2 of block???

Hey guys! My machinest ran into a little problem relieving the block. He's hit a few water jackets in the block. I've talked to a few people and they've mentioned cementing the bottom half of the block.

My question is... What kind of compromise am I looking at in terms of cooling issues if I decide to cement the bottom half?

To me, I can't see much heat getting to the bottom half of the motor anyway but heat travels right.

I really need your guys' input on this. The car will be street driven so, cooling is a must!!!

Thanks, Ken

Ken it is very comon to "Hard Block' to the Bottom of the freeze plugs. This also makes the block a little stronger I hear. You will loose a little kooling but not much as many guys are running on the street this way http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

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Ellis
Team Captain
Team North West F-Body
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I've rocked several stock blocks for circle track usually about a 1 1/2 inch. No heating problems actually they seem to run cooler. If you do this, has to be done right. You can use concrete but it's a special one (#882 if I remember right it doesn't expand or shink like regular). Make a fixture to hold block so cylinders are vertical than full block to desired level. Take a air hammer with blunt point and hammer along the sides of the block, this shakes the block and causes the concrete to flow evenly all though the coolant jackets. Then Install head gasket and a torque plate of cylinder head and toque down. Let is set at least 24 hours then you can flip block and do the other side. Dont remove the torque plate or head from either side. The block needs to set for at least two weeks before removing heads or doing any machine work. It's usaully easier to over thin the concrete with water to make it flow easier.

With products like moroso block filler among others i wonder why your machinist even thought of useing cement?!Tell him to shave his beard and stop dragging his wife around by her hair..

At any rate i wouldnt epect block filler or cement to take the place of cast iron..Id go down there and see about getting another block to work..And save the cemnet for the holes in teh sidewalk..

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88 RX7 GTU, 97 Lt1/700R4,10" 3K stall, 4.30 gears,285CFM heads,12.4-1 compression, custom cam and 2700lbs...Daily driven!

Moroso block filler= spendy cement in a one gallon jug. Use the block filler, fill to the softplugs, works great, never had a cooling issue, but I've only done about twenty blocks over the last thirty years.

So use the block filler...

So what you guys are saying is that I shouldn't worry about heat issues even though the car is daily driven.

How about strength? Will the filler stay put? What I mean is, Would I have to worry about it cracking or breaking off into the motor?

Thanks, guys! You've helped me out a lot already!

you may want to clean the water jackets with a mild acid to get rid of any rust. I've never had any come apart, even after hot-tanking.

I talked to my machinest about doing this and he want a product number for this Moroso block filler. He was also conserned with the filler not completely sealing the passages and leaking in some water still. Have you guys ever had this problem?

My AFR headed motor is filled to the plugs, and my understanding is that it does increase Oil Temperatures significantly. An Oil cooler might be a good idea, but beyond that Fill 'er up!

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Kurtis Tamez
LT4-396.com (http://www.lt4-396.com)
97 Z28 LT4-396
94 Firehawk LT1-396
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I'd be a little wary of a shop that cuts into the water jacket and isn't familiar with commercially available block fill products.

HardBlok water jacket filler - JEG's 772-860212, $55 for 12#.

Moroso water jacket filler - JEG's 710-35570, $43 for 4-gallons.

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Fred
94 Formula A3: 381/TH400/N2O

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Go back and read the second half of my post again..

Mr. Malibu... your the only one thats against filling the water jackets. Why? It does at strength to undamaged areas!

got into the water jackets on my current motor and used a Devcon product. Still good after ~5K miles a hundred plus heat cycles. I wish I could remember for certain the name of the product. You can call Devcon at 800-933-8266 and ask which product to use to repair a cast iron cylinder block (that's what I did). Or you could fill it.

Rich Krause

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'95 Z-28 383 with Vortech, nitrous, etc.
"1FASTZ28"

Have run cemented blocks on the street for years and have NEVER encountered one single problem related to that.

Just a suggestion...A experienced welder can build up material in you problem areas.You will have to check everything or rehone cylinder bores,and may have to line bore the mains again after the welding is done..But it will make for a much stronger leak free block,with the addition of fill..considering the block integrity your dealing with any separation in block material which has been broke through most likely will be the area of failure,even with block fill.If you dig around enough you can find some rods with the rod bolts raised on the caps enough to give you the clearance you need for a 3.875/4.00 stroke. The 4.00 stroke takes some time to get right but it can go in the lt1 block with some ingenuity.. http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

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Joseph Overton
94 TA (new combo new year)
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best n20(65 jet) 10.28@128.8 1.43 60ft.(footbrake)

[This message has been edited by Joseph Overton (edited July 09, 2002).]

I've considered the welding idea already but the block needs to be heated up to a certain temp, then welded. Once its said and done, like you said the block needs to be recalibrated! To much additional costs IMO!

So... When filling it in, should I just leave the soft plugs off and start filling until I see it at that level? What about the part were he broke through? should I just put tape on it so the filler doesn't ooze out completely?

Iroc, dont get it twisted, im all for filling blocks..Its helps keep the bores stable and strenthens the main cap area under hard use..

What im agaist is even thinking of using block filler to close up a hole where a machinist broke into a water jacket..It sounds like your spending some sereous cash here and personally i wouldnt take the chance unless it was welded up..Just the thought of a non metal mateirial in such a hostile envirment doesnt go over well with me..Id rather go and sourch up another block and bring my attitude adjuster to the machine shop to discuss the adjustments of costs because of the there boo boo..Then again thats just me..

OK. So what if I say to fill the bottom half on a fresh block as a saftey measure against breaking throught the water jackets again.

Would that be a better approach rather than fixing the excisting block?!

The thing i wonder is if it bothers you so much about the temp issues etc.. why not find another block? I am pretty sure there should be alot out there and with all the machining that is going to be needed why not start on a fresh carcas http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Steven

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OK guys! Heres what my machinest has come up with... Apoxy seal the holes that came up, use blockfill to fill in the rest, and then lay outa layer of sealer just for extra assurance.

Sound like a pretty good plan to me. What do you guys think?

Make sure you remachine the main bores it will pull and push it out of shape. Also will need to rehone if it's already done, but then it will be to loose on shirt clearance. Has it had any machine work done to the block yet? Read my other post above if you don't let the filler harden long enuff before you machine it it will pull or push the block enuff to mess up the machine work. I.E. unround cylinder bores and main housing!!!!!!!
You said before you didn't want to weld because you'd have to remachine block. You still have to remachine after filling block!!

[This message has been edited by TAYLORMADE (edited July 11, 2002).]

All the machine work has been done already. The clearancing was the last step of machining work that was going to be done!

I hate to say it but clearance is one of the FIRST few steps http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

At least it is whn i am building!

Sent you an email on this but thought maybe everyone would like to know who has this same problem.
I read your post and I am in the EXACT same scenario. Machine work is done and they clearanced last…

How did yours turn out?

Did you ever run any nitrous through it?

Had it held up?

Did you remachine it as Taylormade suggested?

My machinist wants to go with the Moroso stuff as well which is fine.

My setup:
Scat custom lightweight forged crank 3.875
Eagle 5.85 H beam forged rods
JE/SRP Forged NA pistons 4.030

I'm hoping that this thing will still go together, not overheat with 1" of block filler and get me into the 10's with my 4400lb car reliably...

Mike

No nitrous yet... Still working on the tuning.

My machinest pured the cement with a torque plat on it so it wouldn't warp it. he did a minor honing just to make sure it the walls buldged.

The only problem I had was coolant leaking up the head bolts. Aperantly the ARP bolts are famous for this... no biggie they redid them with lock tight. Also the Moly rings were'nt setting properly due to running rich and low RPM's. I pulled it up to 7000 RPM's a dozen times and it got rid of the blow by.

All in all.. it turned out good. If I were to do it again I'd definatly do the cementing first just to safe the potential headaches later.

Well we're going forward with the epoxy and block filler. No choice really.

We'll see how it works with a 250 shot.

Mike

Originally posted by mtxpert
Well we're going forward with the epoxy and block filler. No choice really.

We'll see how it works with a 250 shot.

Mike

Three years on mine now with no leaks,

Rich Krause

Great info guys, thanks for the updates and that my block's life isn't over.

Now we just have to get everything working and get her tuned and back on the street.

I'm anxious to see my output and see what she runs!!!

Mike

I called Devcon and they said to use Titanium putty 10760.
I'm trying to find a local place to purchase today.
Mike

Found it at Graingers!
They stock it for $60 a lb, just FYI for you guys.

Mike

Originally posted by TAYLORMADE
Make sure you remachine the main bores it will pull and push it out of shape. Also will need to rehone if it's already done, but then it will be to loose on shirt clearance. Has it had any machine work done to the block yet? Read my other post above if you don't let the filler harden long enuff before you machine it it will pull or push the block enuff to mess up the machine work. I.E. unround cylinder bores and main housing!!!!!!!
You said before you didn't want to weld because you'd have to remachine block. You still have to remachine after filling block!!

[This message has been edited by TAYLORMADE (edited July 11, 2002).] He should machine it again for free considering he ruined the block. Its his fault it should be his problem.