Bad Seller????

I just bought a rear from this guy I am not going to say names yet...I want to know what you guys think before I blow this out...Is this something that is my fault or his?

I bought a moser 12 bolt with 4.10s eaton posi and all the works...I paid just under $2k shipped for it and It came when he said it would... Before I even bought it I asked him if it whined he said no not really it has a little gear whine but thats it. Well I put it in and guess what, it whines Like no other. With my whole car fatmatted and cut out open I can still hear it. I drove it no more than 10 miles and took it home. I pulled it out and took it to my gear man and he said the gears are set up wrong and the pinion bearing is shot thats why it is so loud. He said it was going to be a minuim of 400 to get it fixed...So I imed the seller and told him about it...He could care less Said there is nothing he can do about it...I asked for some of the money back and he said F you. your not getting any money back it wasnt my fault. I told him it whined and it was going to be alot and he lied to me about it...And ever since I gave him the the the Response from him has been the same for any question I ask..."what do you want me to do about it" Who is at fault here? Me or him?


thanks
matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
I asked for some of the money back and he said F you

with a response like that, i'd post his name !

i'm not being a prick here, but im not mechanically technical.

is there a difference between gear whine and pinion whine?

if yes he is at fault for sure, if not he should pitch in something since the part was sold as a working part that was fit for a particular purpose.

since it is not fit for the purpose he sold it to you for, you should be compensated.

If he wont at least split it with you then out him.

Im curious to know who it is also.

Well I got a phone call today from the guy who is fixing the rear end. He said EVERYTHING in the rear is CRAP!! Said im looking at around 6-700$ and he is even cutting me a deal...He also stated that if the guy couldnt hear the whine he must be deaf because like I said everything is wrong and/or broken. I also attempted to contect the seller 1 last time before I Dispute the charges with my credit card company...I will repost as soon as I hear something from him...I am still not going to give his name out until I find out how he is going to handle this.

thanks
matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
Well I got a phone call today from the guy who is fixing the rear end. He said EVERYTHING in the rear is CRAP!! Said im looking at around 6-700$ and he is even cutting me a deal...He also stated that if the guy couldnt hear the whine he must be deaf because like I said everything is wrong and/or broken. I also attempted to contect the seller 1 last time before I Dispute the charges with my credit card company...I will repost as soon as I hear something from him...I am still not going to give his name out until I find out how he is going to handle this.

thanks
matt I think he knew about it , I would post his name . He sold you junk the least he could do is give you a little bit of money back . I would be overwhelmed w/guilt .

Here is the original post of where I found/bought...http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=462685

thanks
matt

here is the email i got back

look i gave u no kind of warrenty at all with this rear u already said
the guy said it was from the gear being set up wrong ...which i didnt set up
moser did i told u the rear whined its whined since i got it. i dont feel i
am in anyway responsible so do whatever u have to do but im sorry but im not
giving u any money back b/c i never told u i was warrenting it

this is F'd up!!!!!!!

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213526&perpage=15&pagenumber=1


is he tryin to still sell it on here...

in his staements he says it works fine..
seems like a cocky mofo!:eek:


But, lillbush5555

i bought an air pump off u while back.....ur a good guy

good luck with that man

Originally posted by lillbush5555
here is the email i got back

look i gave u no kind of warrenty at all with this rear u already said
the guy said it was from the gear being set up wrong ...which i didnt set up
moser did i told u the rear whined its whined since i got it. i dont feel i
am in anyway responsible so do whatever u have to do but im sorry but im not
giving u any money back b/c i never told u i was warrenting it



u already stated that "ur guy" said everythign was from the rear being set up wrong. which moser set up so please tell me how this is my fualt i told u it whined i said it whined just as loud as when i got it so thats why i said t was normal whine!

You also told me that every car you have been in with 4.10s has whined..did they whine as loud as the 1 you sold me...NO! So how can you say it is normal? Also OK the gears arent your fault but what about EVERYTHING else in the rear? Explain that:mad:!

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
You also told me that every car you have been in with 4.10s has whined..did they whine as loud as the 1 you sold me...NO! So how can you say it is normal? Also OK the gears arent your fault but what about EVERYTHING else in the rear? Explain that:mad:!

matt


what else is ****ed up and tell me how?

Originally posted by Frans96SS
what else is ****ed up and tell me how?
dude..even if you did get a defective rear end from moser doesnt make it NORMAL. NORMAL rear ends DO NOT ****EN SCREAM OVER A CUTOUT...FAR FROM NORMAL...its your damn fault for selling a ****ed up rear end. I doubt u drove on the rear end for 8 months like u said u did. If you did, then that surly explains why everything is ****ed up in it. ITS aLL YOUR FAULT since u didnt call moser and told them about the problems. You decided to sell it online without telling anyone that the rear is a messed up. Just because u bought a messed up rear end DOES NOT MEAN ITS NORMAL :mad:

ive tried to tell you but you dont want to hear it...I get the same response from you...What do you want me to do about it...Im not giving you any money back...All the bearings are crap and the posi isnt wearing right...He told me the posi is on the way out all the gears inside of it have been weakend due to it being driven on set up wrong...I will make a copy of the SCROLL of things wrong tom.

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
ive tried to tell you but you dont want to hear it...I get the same response from you...What do you want me to do about it...Im not giving you any money back...All the bearings are crap and the posi isnt wearing right...He told me the posi is on the way out all the gears inside of it have been weakend due to it being driven on set up wrong...I will make a copy of the SCROLL of things wrong tom.

matt


yes i did drive on it for 8 monthes it may have even been longer and if all this is b/c of the gears like ur stating ur saying itsmy fualt just b/c i drove my car? and did u ever think this guy is just trying to **** u and get money out of u ?

Originally posted by Frans96SS
yes i did drive on it for 8 monthes it may have even been longer and if all this is b/c of the gears like ur stating ur saying itsmy fualt just b/c i drove my car? and did u ever think this guy is just trying to **** u and get money out of u ?

you are an idiot..how is it not your fault for selling a ****ed rear end? Just because u got it ****ed up from moser, and decided not to do anything about buy drive on it till it pretty much falls apart and then sell it saying its has NORMAL WHINE..HOW THE **** ISNT IT YOUR FAULT?

No he wouldnt try to be getting money out of me he is a freind of mine and I have been going to him for years. So no If anything he is helping me out by NOT charging me what he is supposed to.

matt

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
you are an idiot..how is it not your fault for selling a ****ed rear end? Just because u got it ****ed up from moser, and decided not to do anything about buy drive on it till it pretty much falls apart and then sell it saying its has NORMAL WHINE..HOW THE **** ISNT IT YOUR FAULT?


look it had normal whine to me ok it whined just as much as when i got it so it was ****in normal to me nothin ever ****ed up with that rear the only reason i sold it was b/c i wanted to get a spool and diff gears and it was cheaper to sell that and buy a new one that to put gears and a spool in that or else i would have kept it

You just knew it was about to **** on you and it would be cheaper/easier to get it out before it blew...Well you got it out..But it doesnt look like it is easier.

matt

Originally posted by Frans96SS
look it had normal whine to me ok it whined just as much as when i got it so it was ****in normal to me nothin ever ****ed up with that rear the only reason i sold it was b/c i wanted to get a spool and diff gears and it was cheaper to sell that and buy a new one that to put gears and a spool in that or else i would have kept it


face it man..YOU SOLD A JUNK REAR END...YOU KNEW ABOUT IT, unless you are an IDIOT. NO rear end sounds like a airplane at take off. BE a MAN and give MAtt nice chunk of the money back to get the rear end TO NORMAL !

EItHER WAY, you need to make it right...IDIOT or not, no one but you should pay for YOUR OWN MISTAKE:mad:

Originally posted by lillbush5555
You just knew it was about to **** on you and it would be cheaper/easier to get it out before it blew...Well you got it out..But it doesnt look like it is easier.

matt


no not at all im turning my car into a full drag car so i got a ford 9 inch with 35spline gun drilled axles ,a spool and 370's i needed a diff gear b/c i did a th400 swap also and 410's with a th400 wouldnt go good

WTF does that have to do with a BROKEN rear??? NOTHING Just get ur rep back and fork over some $ so we can get this situation resolved, and quite being a tight A**

matt

LT1UltraZ: dude
LT1UltraZ: just give him some money back
FRANS402: what!
FRANS402: why the hell should i
LT1UltraZ: u arent getting anywhere with your dumb excuses
LT1UltraZ: i think i made it clear few times
FRANS402: good for u
LT1UltraZ: just because u are an idiot doesnt mean someone should pay for it
FRANS402: nothin is my fualt so why shoudl i give him money back he even stated it was form the gears which moser set up
FRANS402: im done talking to u good bye
FRANS402 signed off at 11:35:45 PM.


Our friend here still thinks its not his fault because he got it from moser. NEWSFLASH!! ITS OK to sell BROKEN PARTS as long as you get them from the manufacture! Instead of trying to get moser to fix the problem, jsut sell it to someone on the internet and tell them they suppose to be making enough noise to hear them over a open cutout :rolleyes:

Originally posted by lillbush5555
WTF does that have to do with a BROKEN rear??? NOTHING Just get ur rep back and fork over some $ so we can get this situation resolved, and quite being a tight A**

matt


u already said the rear being ****ed up was form the gears being set up wrong which I DID NOT SET UP so how is it my fualt

Originally posted by Frans96SS
u already said the rear being ****ed up was form the gears being set up wrong which I DID NOT SET UP so how is it my fualt

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
you are an idiot..how is it not your fault for selling a ****ed rear end? Just because u got it ****ed up from moser, and decided not to do anything about buy drive on it till it pretty much falls apart and then sell it saying its has NORMAL WHINE..HOW THE **** ISNT IT YOUR FAULT?

ANSWEAR THE QUESTION....HOW IS IT NOT YOUR FAULT?

Frans is shaping up to be a bad seller and I reccomend he be put on that list!

:mad:

you sold it didnt you? And alo get over the gears and look at EVERYTHING else...you seam to not look at that part and just focus on the gear issue. If you cant Back up what you sell...You dont need to sell stuff here:mad:

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
you sold it didnt you? And alo get over the gears and look at EVERYTHING else...you seam to not look at that part and just focus on the gear issue. If you cant Back up what you sell...You dont need to sell stuff here:mad:

matt


ok the posi is bad please tell me what i would have done to **** the posi up?

Originally posted by Frans96SS
ok the posi is bad please tell me what i would have done to **** the posi up?
WHO KNOWS...You sold a ****ed up rear end..WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND? NO ONE KNOWS WHAT U DID WITH IT, NO ONE KNOWS HOW U GOT IT FROM MOSER NO ONE BUT YOU. BUT IF U DID GET IT FROM MOSER IN THE SHAPE IT IS IN NOW, THEN YOU ARE AN IDIOT FOR NOT CALLING MOSER AND GETTIN IT FIXED. YOU ARE EVEN BIGGER IDTIOT FOR SELLING IT AND PRETENDING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

Does anyone from Huston,TX knows
Fran Schatz
7100 WestView Dr.
apt 1703
Houston TX 77055
:confused:

Can someone pay him a visit and see if you can explain to him he that he sold a messed up rear end?

BTW can someone find out his phone number for us?
Thanks
MArcin

O sh!t! Marcin's whoopin some A$$!!!! :D :lol:

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
Does anyone from Huston,TX knows
Fran Schatz
7100 WestView Dr.
apt 1703
Houston TX 77055
:confused:

Can someone pay him a visit and see if you can explain to him he that he sold a messed up rear end?

BTW can someone find out his phone number for us?
Thanks
MArcin


come to my house and see what happend i dare anyone on here!!

Originally posted by Frans96SS
come to my house and see what happend i dare anyone on here!!

uh huh.

Damn man, it's your fault, you sold him a ****ed up rear end. If he can hear the whine over the cutout, something is definately messed up. YOU KNEW ABOUT IT. ANYONE WITH A HINT OF PERFORMANCE RELATED KNOWLEDGE CAN DETERMINE THAT, THAT AMOUNT OF WHINE IS NOT NORMAL.

When you bought it you should have told moser is whined like a MF. They would have fixed it. You chose not to.

Well it does look like he cares to much about his rep on the boards

LillBush555 (12:14:43 AM): well then it doesnt look like your rep is gonna stand on the bopards

FRANS402 (12:15:11 AM): well 400 bucks isnt worth my rep

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
Well it does look like he cares to much about his rep on the boards

LillBush555 (12:14:43 AM): well then it doesnt look like your rep is gonna stand on the bopards

FRANS402 (12:15:11 AM): well 400 bucks isnt worth my rep

matt


i offered him 200 bucks to replace the bearing since he told me a week ago he would take 200 now he wants 400

Originally posted by Frans96SS
come to my house and see what happend i dare anyone on here!! Look tough guy , you know you sold him junk . You should give him some money back for the bull**** you have put him thrue , and the crap you have sold him . This is crap , for all that **** he could have bough a brand new one and had it installed . If it was that loud then there is no way you didnt know it was messed up . Sounds like you took the easy way out to me .If I was him , I would definitly be paying you a visit . Tough guy or not .Actually , he could probably take this to court if he really wanted too .:mad: People like you make other people scared to buy over the net . Ruining it for the rest of us on the board who would rather have faith in people in general . But people like you **** that up for everybody .

:death: What goes around , comes around .

another thing right after he payed me he tried getting his money back b/c he blew his motor and i guess thats my fualt too? i think hes just trying to get more money out of me to fix his motor

Originally posted by Frans96SS
i offered him 200 bucks to replace the bearing since he told me a week ago he would take 200 now he wants 400 400 is fair !

How would I be using it to fix my motor if I drove around with it in? HUH???? Dont you feal dumb now..and I didnt expect you to give it back and guess what you didnt...did u forget to tell them it wasnt even 12 hours after I paid you that I saod my motor locked and ASKED you nicely if you could sendf the $ back..You even said I would loose $ from the paypal fees and I said I didnt care cuz I needed it. No the car is fixed but the rear isnt!!

matt

Originally posted by Frans96SS
another thing right after he payed me he tried getting his money back b/c he blew his motor and i guess thats my fualt too? i think hes just trying to get more money out of me to fix his motor

Quit being a baby and help the guy out a little bit. It would have been worth it in the begining just to keep all of this quiet, before he reveled your name. You're just digging yourself into a hole.

Now you will probably never sell anything on this board again. Most people do searches before buying parts. After seeing this, I wouldnt buy anything from you, your fault or not...

Originally posted by lillbush5555
How would I be using it to fix my motor if I drove around with it in? HUH???? Dont you feal dumb now..and I didnt expect you to give it back and guess what you didnt...did u forget to tell them it wasnt even 12 hours after I paid you that I saod my motor locked and ASKED you nicely if you could sendf the $ back..You even said I would loose $ from the paypal fees and I said I didnt care cuz I needed it. No the car is fixed but the rear isnt!!

matt


that doesnt mean u didnt fix it with credit cards and are trying to pay them off and no i dont feel dumb

Maybe that would work if I didnt max out the credit card buying your POS.

matt

Fran:

What the hell is going on here?

I have seen your car and ridden in it. The rear did always whine and you had it in for 8months and nothing was wrong with it.

So what else has been going on?


Rick


Fran is no bull**it artist. If he said that it whined then it did. I have known Fran for a while.

look @ Frans96SS talkin like a big boy like hes gonna beat everyone a$$ that comes to his house, hahahahaha, oh i think i laughed so hard i $hit on myself. look dude, you need to figure out what you're going to do to fix this. you dont just sell people $hitty parts and tell them they're new and problem free. there is quite a difference between "a little whine" and what you sold bush. just be glad your not local, because what you did is not something you just overlook. you robbed bush out of alot of money man. not something i would overlook. might be time for a road trip guys :)

If RickG who supposedly has nothing to do with either of you is saying the car made more noise than it should have before you sold it, then, being a master mechanic you should have known something was wrong.

Im not a wrench. my wrench told me a set of brake pads was defective out of the box. the shop i bought them from first said it was normal. I put them on the board, got an offer, then took them off the board. I couldn't sell them (at a whopping $55) knowing they may be defective.

I worked it out with the place that sold them to me. If OK, I take a loss, if not they refund my money.

If your rear was bad, and it seems it was, you should bear the loss. Otherwise refund all his $$, plus the cost to ship it back to you. The money Bush is asking is probably less than what it cost to ship both ways!:cry: :shame: :shame:

I said that they whined. Nothing about being an outrageous whine!!!

I am staying out of this.

Just wanted to let people know that Fran is a good guy and would not *uck someone over for something like this.

If he did we are going to have a little talk then.

Fran: When you coming home again?

Originally posted by RickG95Z28
I said that they whined. Nothing about being an outrageous whine!!!

I am staying out of this.

Just wanted to let people know that Fran is a good guy and would not *uck someone over for something like this.

If he did we are going to have a little talk then.

Fran: When you coming home again?


well everyone on here thinks im a big ass hole b/c he made it sounds way worse than it actually is .

i come home friday for spring break

good luck with the rest of this crap here.

so how is your car running, see that you got some new stuff.

What else did you do to the car?

Originally posted by RickG95Z28
good luck with the rest of this crap here.

so how is your car running, see that you got some new stuff.

What else did you do to the car?

maybe you should email him or pm him instead of posting in this thread ;)

Yes I agree,

This thread was a complaint , not a family reunion page.

I imagine his car is doing pretty good since he found some person he believed to be a sucker to dump his problem on.

well i just spoke with moser he said the gears are machined for strength not to be quiet, he said theres no way even if the the gear was set up wrong it would not cause the posi to wear out he said the rear is ment to hold 1000hp he said it should whine ...(like i originally thought when i got it). if u wanna call moser ur self and see what they say heres there number 260-726-6689, extension 1 i spoke with ronnie i beleive

well i got the bill today...$635.00 Gears are bad and every single bearing is shot Here is the bill. http://community.webshots.com/photo/63334825/124307589sTnWWS

I dont think I should have to pay for this...do you?

matt

Brook...Contacted them already


thanks
matt

i called moser they said the whine is normal the whine hasnt gotten any louder since i got it it does scream like he sayd it does hes exagerating i offered to pay 200 bucks ro replace the gear or bearing or whatever but he wants me to cover the whole amount when its not like the rear was broken it just whined i could see if i said the rear was fine and then he got it and the posi pulled a 1 legger and the gears had teeth missing but they dont the posi works fine and the gears are fine i dont feel responsible for the whole amount

Originally posted by aggiez28
ya never know... frans could be in the right. if he truly didnt know, then he dosnt owe you a dime.

if you sodl a car to a guy and then he came back a few days later and said the block has a crack in it woudl you give him any $$ back?
i wouldnt, im not walmart, i dont offer a warenty or do returns

i just wonder if he knew somthig nwsas wrong with the rear or not.
i wonder what would happen if legal action was takin....

brook



thats how i feel the only thing it ever did was whine. and it never got louder the whole time i had the rear which was about a year so i figured if it didnt break then it wasnt goin too i offered him 200 bucks but im not gonna pay for all of it b/c on the paper the "gearguy" gave him it clearly states its from the gears being set up wrong which i did not do! so whats why i feel i shouldnt pay for it

I'm not rootin for Fran or nothing.. but I can't see how a COMMONLY known problem that has been brought up hundreds of times on every 4th gen f-body related board can be directly blamed on fran. I couldn't even try to count how many times I've seen somebody take their brand new moser 12-bolt, toss it in the car and get on and start raising holy hell because their rear end whined. Then all these people after a year or so get tired of the whining and take it to a shop and it's diagnosed with basically the same problem. Sharp teeth from the agressive clearances during installation, and the shop wanting to replace the bearing because the teeth were worn. I bought my 9" expecting it to whine like crazy, I was pleased when it really didn't whine that bad when I finally got it in. I'd already planned on having the rear end re-setup before i'd even recieved the rear end... because of moser's techiques at setting up rears. Anybody else that buys a moser rear end and has been on the internet boards should expect to do the same thing if it bothers them.

I personally would've taken steps to ensure that the rear end was setup properly BEFORE plunking down the $2-grand on it. Or at least checked it out to know what you were getting.

JMO here, but why not split the difference at ~ $320? Fran, your not paying for the whole thing and Matt gets a little relief on the bill. I think Brook made some good points.

Dustan

Originally posted by rockind78
JMO here, but why not split the difference at ~ $320? Fran, your not paying for the whole thing and Matt gets a little relief on the bill. I think Brook made some good points.

Dustan


i offered to pay 200 b/c i dont think there really as much bad as he says the whining may even be from the bearing being worn and after that is fixed it mihgt go away i doubt the gears are worn so bad that they cant be used i dont feel the right to pay 320 b/c its somethign that isnt my fualt i wanted to sell the rear for 1500 buck i would have i just dont feel i should pay any more than 200 especially after he threatened me by coming to my house(which he still says hes gonna be here) and him exagerating everythign trying to make it like the whole thing was trashed just b/c of a whine

I never asked you to payy all 635...I told you lastnight I wanted 400 thats all and this whole situation could be droped and your rep could be saved...You replied to me that your rep wasnt worth 400 and there is no way your gonna pay that much. I dont think it is fair that I have to pay 635 for it either. I was told it had gear whine...NOT gear scream...there is a differance you know...I wouldnt have said anything if it had normal whine but with hooker long tubes, cam and cut out OPEN i could still hear it...That is how you know it isnt right. Like I said im not looking to get 635 out of you but I expect more than 200.

matt

BTW: I never threated you I said Ill see you soon...U asked me if I was gonna come knovk on your door and I said yes and u replied to that I live next to a cop go knock on his door as well. I belive I have the right to be pissed I paid 1950 for something that I have to dump another 635 into? If I wanted to pay that much I would have bought 1 brand new and still have money to blow

Originally posted by lillbush5555
I never asked you to payy all 635...I told you lastnight I wanted 400 thats all and this whole situation could be droped and your rep could be saved...You replied to me that your rep wasnt worth 400 and there is no way your gonna pay that much. I dont think it is fair that I have to pay 635 for it either. I was told it had gear whine...NOT gear scream...there is a differance you know...I wouldnt have said anything if it had normal whine but with hooker long tubes, cam and cut out OPEN i could still hear it...That is how you know it isnt right. Like I said im not looking to get 635 out of you but I expect more than 200.

matt

BTW: I never threated you I said Ill see you soon...U asked me if I was gonna come knovk on your door and I said yes and u replied to that I live next to a cop go knock on his door as well. I belive I have the right to be pissed I paid 1950 for something that I have to dump another 635 into? If I wanted to pay that much I would have bought 1 brand new and still have money to blow




well if u looked at the thread on htown everyone on there stated it didnt scream 3 people replied and said my rear was fine and they have all driven in my car but then the thread got locked i just thinkg everyone on this web site thiks its like outragouesly loud when its not so there for there blaming it on me saying i lied, if u think my rear was a scream im gonna video tape my freinds rear and u can compare mine to that

I could really care less about your friends...This has nothing to do with him...So dont even bother getting a video. I know how loud it was...I have no reason to lie about anything...If this was a lie why would I be pushing so hard and trying to comprimise with you?

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
I could really care less about your friends...This has nothing to do with him...So dont even bother getting a video. I know how loud it was...I have no reason to lie about anything...If this was a lie why would I be pushing so hard and trying to comprimise with you?

matt


ive tried to comprmise with u 2 but im not gonna go out of my way to give u 400 bucks for somethign that isnt true nor is it my fualt

so it isnt true? I gave you proof of what is wrong with it...Do I have to go take pixs of it? How have you tried to comprimise? I started at trying to get you to pay all of it, then I droped it to 400...you started at 200 and havent budged

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
so it isnt true? I gave you proof of what is wrong with it...Do I have to go take pixs of it? How have you tried to comprimise? I started at trying to get you to pay all of it, then I droped it to 400...you started at 200 and havent budged

matt




i havent budged b/c it isnt phisically broken ur making like u cant even drive it i could see if it was actually broken but it only whines

Originally posted by lillbush5555
so it isnt true? I gave you proof of what is wrong with it...Do I have to go take pixs of it? How have you tried to comprimise? I started at trying to get you to pay all of it, then I droped it to 400...you started at 200 and havent budged

matt

Anyone can write a few lines on a piece of paper and call it proof. Nobody here knows who this person is. Maybe you should take it to a shop that specializes in gears. I say this because I took my car to a shop because of gear wine, they said the same exact thing you are being told. It was a reputable shop too. When I decided to get the work done I took it to a shop that specialized in gears. They said it all looked ok, infact looked almost new! It was just noisy, thats all. I had it all replaced anyway, and now it wines again, just not as bad. Good luck, but I think you're over reacting...

It is a shop that specializes in gears..they are JDS Induction. The do gears and motors...Look up there number online at yellowpages.com and ask for Russ.

matt

http://bellsouthpwp.net/x/x/xxsaint69x/Russ%2069%20Camaro/

i think a guy with a 8 sec camaro that thas been working on race cars all his life, and is able to set up a rear end to make 0 noise would know what he is talking about ;)

Well, I must come to Fran's defense here.

I just bought a brand new 12 bolt with 4.11 gears from Moser. It has less than 1,000 miles on it and it has a pretty good whine to it. I can here the whine over my Hooker long tubes. No I do not have cutouts. I was told by Moser that this was normal whine. You have a choice when you order the rear end, do you want gears that are going to be strong but noisey or quiet and weak. I ordered a Moser 12 bolt for strength.

I think Moser might know a little bit about gears and rear ends. They buillt the friggin rear end, I am going to listen to them.

So I guess my new rear end is bad as well. Right.

We need to define what whine is and excessive whine here.

Fran's car has been racing down here in Houston on the supposedly broken rear end all year. If he has been running that fast with a broken rear end then I would hate to race him on his new ford 9" then.

Who is to say that he is not getting scammed here? What the heck kind of business does there receipt's on plain lined paper?

I have a hard time believing that this rear was bad like stated. I have seen this car run and it is fast. Also, I know the shop that did all of the work on his car, they put my new rear end in as well. The owner of the Speed shop was telling me to buy his rear end but I have TCS and I also wanted my ABS. His rear did not have ABS otherwise I would have bought it along with the Denny's Nitrous driveshaft.

Now, the speed shop had his car already there at their shop, don't you think that they would have known the rear end was bad? Maybe I am wrong but if it was as bad as it is being made to believe, I am sure they would have known this.


Taken from Moser's site. See link below.

OEM Gears vs. Performance Aftermarket Gears
Our high-performance aftermarket gears are the strongest gears available. Made from 8620 grade steel, our ring & pinion gears have been developed for strength. Made for shorter patterns, our gears favor the 'toe' of the gear, which under load the gear pattern moves toward the 'heel' of the gear for strength. Each gear set is marked with a depth for recommended set-up. The marking is figured based on the wear pattern during testing of each particular gear set.

The two primary differences between OEM gears and aftermarket gears are as follows:
OEM gears are not made with as much nickel as aftermarket gears, which in turn does not make them as strong. Conversely, OEM may not be as strong due to the material make-up, but because of the lack of nickel in the product, the gears may be quieter.
The impact value is substantially lower for OEM gears, meaning they WILL NOT be able to handle the demands of excessive horsepower as seen in more advanced drag racing.

There is a trade off. If you do race and have excessive horsepower, you will need an aftermarket gear. But keep in mind, the gears are made for strength and the ability to withstand the demands of racing. If you are using your automobile as both your daily drive AND your race car, can you live with more noise on a day to day basis? You need to decide this prior to purchasing aftermarket gears.


http://www.moserengineering.com/moser_interior/products.asp?CatID=28

damn finally peopel are starting to see my point exactly zepp thank u so much for goin out of ur way and doing that

Yoyu still dont get it do you? I know there is going to be a whine it isnt supposed to scream...over a open cut out? No! I understand it is supposed to whine I have had my share of rears Trust me I know...This isnt normal...Well maybe u should have bought it tghen you would know what im talking about...No they wouldnt know it is bad if they didnt pull it apart and look at it.


matt

oooffff....long post to read...

couple points
1. mosers or supose to wine. yes. but i have lots of experience with them and the winer audiable...but not excessive. alomost just a " light huummmmmm...."
It sound as if they are screaming. exagereation, maybe but i dont think they are good based on reading post only and own personally experience.

2. He said the gears teeth were knife tapered. that is definately bad setup symtom.

3. I dont know whos at fault. I think some compensation is called for. not all $635, but i think half is very appropriate. They both share in the blame. I believe fran did in fact know his rear was taking a chit and that why he sold it. A 12 bolts in good condition is good past 1000 hp, fran did not need a 9in, but simply knew his rear end was on a downhill path, so he sold it.
lillbush5555 was at fault for not realizing Fran is a choad and for taking a chance. i have got f'ed over several times, and i got some good deal. its really really sucks when you deal with someone with such piss poor integrity like Fran. But as will all the people i have delt with in bad deal, they have never sold again. Ushally not by my fault tho, but by there own. FOR EXAMPLE: Fran reply on here and i think everyone here will agree with me, ruined his on creditablity and made himself look like a total douche. is his fault

Seller, you have to CYA. I have been in a situation before, sold something, best of my knowlage was in great shape, guy got it and something was wrong with it. but thats when you gotta be a man and take a hit. i gave them a full refund and they were never happeir. Fran is not someone i will every deal with from now on, and that only cause of the way he conducted himself on this thread

Send the bad parts to MOSER and let them decide.

Originally posted by camarossguy2
oooffff....long post to read...

couple points
1. mosers or supose to wine. yes. but i have lots of experience with them and the winer audiable...but not excessive. alomost just a " light huummmmmm...."
It sound as if they are screaming. exagereation, maybe but i dont think they are good based on reading post only and own personally experience.

2. He said the gears teeth were knife tapered. that is definately bad setup symtom.

3. I dont know whos at fault. I think some compensation is called for. not all $635, but i think half is very appropriate. They both share in the blame. I believe fran did in fact know his rear was taking a chit and that why he sold it. A 12 bolts in good condition is good past 1000 hp, fran did not need a 9in, but simply knew his rear end was on a downhill path, so he sold it.
lillbush5555 was at fault for not realizing Fran is a choad and for taking a chance. i have got f'ed over several times, and i got some good deal. its really really sucks when you deal with someone with such piss poor integrity like Fran. But as will all the people i have delt with in bad deal, they have never sold again. Ushally not by my fault tho, but by there own. FOR EXAMPLE: Fran reply on here and i think everyone here will agree with me, ruined his on creditablity and made himself look like a total douche. is his fault

Seller, you have to CYA. I have been in a situation before, sold something, best of my knowlage was in great shape, guy got it and something was wrong with it. but thats when you gotta be a man and take a hit. i gave them a full refund and they were never happeir. Fran is not someone i will every deal with from now on, and that only cause of the way he conducted himself on this thread



first of all how the **** did u know i didnt need a new rear.. ur right i didnt NEED a new one but i got a th400 and with 4:11's my top speed would have been 109 so i needed new gears and im mkaing my car a drag car so i also wanted a spool and i figured it was cheaper to sell my 12 bolt and get a 9 inch rather than get new gears and a spool for the 12 bolt so i got a 9 inch with 370's a spool 35 spline gun drilled axles. so dont come the **** on here saying u know i didnt need a rear and saying i sold it b/c it was trashed i sold it b/c it ws ****in cheaper u dont know me froma ****in whole in the ground so dont go around talking like u do ******* mind ur own ****in business and stay out of others

Originally posted by JIMS1999CONVZ28
Send the bad parts to MOSER and let them decide.



i agree

I just looked at Franz profile. He says he is an engine builder. How could an engine builder not know good from bad?

Somebody is telling a lie. Either the engine builder or the rear end builder.

Somehow I don't think the shop trying to make $600 is making up what he sees.

Split it. Thats what an adult would do. Each one shares the burden of the misunderstanding.

No, wait, don't split it. Keep fighting. This thread is too amusing.

These are always very difficult situations. Usually someone is going to feel like they are getting screwed in the deal. I understand both sides here. If you pay good money for something then you expect it to work. However, if you are selling something that you believe is in perfect operating order and then the person comes back and says it is completely trashed, you ripped me off, most people would feel like they are being scammed and not reponsible for it.

Either way someone is going to feel wronged here. Fran offered $200 which seems reasonable to me. Anytime a company offers a parts warranty and you have to have a part replaced, they only reimburse you for the cost of the parts NOT the labor. The total on that bill was $650 with $250 of labor. Splitting the amount of the parts equally is $200 each. Sounds fair to me. This way they both share the burden together and not one person feels totally screwed.

Originally posted by Frans96SS
so dont go around talking like u do ******* mind ur own ****in business and stay out of others


You are posting and replying on a PUBLIC forum.
Therefore the business typed on here is PUBLIC
Better think hard before screwing someone over next time.

Your name carries zero integrity on this board so I would stop arguing, replying and trying to justify a lost cause.
You got his money , but you lost any selling weight you once might have had.


Good day.

Originally posted by Mikie
You are posting and replying on a PUBLIC forum.
Therefore the business typed on here is PUBLIC
Better think hard before screwing someone over next time.

Your name carries zero integrity on this board so I would stop arguing, replying and trying to justify a lost cause.
You got his money , but you lost any selling weight you once might have had.


Good day.


what ever i love how everyone just beileves one side of the story can i right up a thing a peice of paper like he did sayin it was checked out before i sold it and then have proof like he did this is all bull **** if that guy has such a reputiple business and is soo well known why the hell would he write on plain paper? seems alittle odd to me

he is also posting in my thread telling ppeople that i am bad seller :)

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234900


Shows you what kinda person he is, doesnt it...:rolleyes:

Fran for some reason i think u might be gettin banned pretty soon :p From 3 message boards :cool:

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
he is also posting in my thread telling ppeople that i am bad seller :)

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234900


Shows you what kinda person he is, doesnt it...:rolleyes:

Fran for some reason i think u might be gettin banned pretty soon :p From 3 message boards :cool:

Man this is amusing.

Fran, you stooped lower than low with that one. I read this whole post, tried to see both sides, tried to offer an unbiased opinion. But, you just dug yourself a hole you will have a hard time getting out of.

Why:confused: why do you keep screwing youself over what amounts to $120? Don't pay anything. Because even if you do, you will still look like a fool after that post. Put the money towards charm school instead. Learn manners, and the difference between right and wrong.:eek: Shame on you!!!

Fran, I can't believe you dogged out on xxsaints FS post. That really made you look stupid.

You had a believable chance. But now, you have ruined yourself.

You should offer him at least $300.

Try to be a good person and work this out.

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
he is also posting in my thread telling ppeople that i am bad seller :)

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234900


Shows you what kinda person he is, doesnt it...:rolleyes:

Fran for some reason i think u might be gettin banned pretty soon :p From 3 message boards :cool:


the only reason i did is b/c u came in my thread posting im a bad seller just b/c hes ur freind and u only know one side of the story

Originally posted by 350 HRSS
Fran, I can't believe you dogged out on xxsaints FS post. That really made you look stupid.

You had a believable chance. But now, you have ruined yourself.

You should offer him at least $300.

Try to be a good person and work this out.



the only reason i did it was b/c i supposably ****ed his freind and without him hearing both sides he imediattly started posting in my thread which i thought was ****ed up i didnt ****in scam anyone this is all total bull ****

fran should refund the full 1950 pus the 635 to fix it and matt keeps the rear. you are a child fran, grow up little boy. you know people get shot for **** like this. understand that this is no way a threat. but honestly people get shot over $hit alot smaller than this. grow up~gunter

Originally posted by gunter96ws6
fran should refund the full 1950 pus the 635 to fix it and matt keeps the rear. you are a child fran, grow up little boy. you know people get shot for **** like this. understand that this is no way a threat. but honestly people get shot over $hit alot smaller than this. grow up~gunter


**** u u have no idea who i am, i shouldnt give him **** back wow just b/c his rear whines i guess its totally ****ed how many peopel in this thread actually heard it whine?

Originally posted by Frans96SS
the only reason i did it was b/c i supposably ****ed his freind and without him hearing both sides he imediattly started posting in my thread which i thought was ****ed up i didnt ****in scam anyone this is all total bull ****

How did you not scam Matt? CAN YOU READ AT ALL? No one was asking for a quiet rear end. Most people on this board know that Moser will make noise. Also most people should be able to tell a little whine from a scream over the cutout noise which is not normal. Just because you are an idiot and supposobly cant tell a difference between the two does not mean Matt should pay for it. Why dont you grow up and take resposibilty for selling a junk rear end? I told you before that i would delete my post if you decided to help matt with the bill, your response to me was **** you, good bye.

Originally posted by Frans96SS
**** u u have no idea who i am, i shouldnt give him **** back wow just b/c his rear whines i guess its totally ****ed how many peopel in this thread actually heard it whine?
Fran i heard it. I also have a moser 12 bolt, and guess that, mine makes LITTLE NOISE, and there is no way in hell you can hear it over a open cutout and my car doesnt even have dynomat like Matts car does.

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
How did you not scam Matt? CAN YOU READ AT ALL? No one was asking for a quiet rear end. Most people on this board know that Moser will make noise. Also most people should be able to tell a little whine from a scream over the cutout noise which is not normal. Just because you are an idiot and supposobly cant tell a difference between the two does not mean Matt should pay for it. Why dont you grow up and take resposibilty for selling a junk rear end? I told you before that i would delete my post if you decided to help matt with the bill, your response to me was **** you, good bye.


i told him it whined b/c it does it doesnt scream i love how people on here buy race parts and expect to get somekind of a warrenty the rear wasnt broken it just whined i could see if it whined then he put it in and broke 2 days later but it didnt it lasted me a year just perfectly fine with no problems what so ever he asked if i would give a warrenty i said no u buy as is and he still bought it theres nothin wrong with the rear so thats why i shouldnt give him any money back hes lucky i offered the 200

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
How did you not scam Matt? CAN YOU READ AT ALL? No one was asking for a quiet rear end. Most people on this board know that Moser will make noise. Also most people should be able to tell a little whine from a scream over the cutout noise which is not normal. Just because you are an idiot and supposobly cant tell a difference between the two does not mean Matt should pay for it. Why dont you grow up and take resposibilty for selling a junk rear end? I told you before that i would delete my post if you decided to help matt with the bill, your response to me was **** you, good bye.


yeah i said **** u good bye after u yelling at me for 10 minutes and i didnt feel like hearing it i doubt anybody would why dont u tell the real story instead of trying to make me look like a total ass

Originally posted by Frans96SS
i told him it whined b/c it does it doesnt scream i love how people on here buy race parts and expect to get somekind of a warrenty the rear wasnt broken it just whined i could see if it whined then he put it in and broke 2 days later but it didnt it lasted me a year just perfectly fine with no problems what so ever he asked if i would give a warrenty i said no u buy as is and he still bought it theres nothin wrong with the rear so thats why i shouldnt give him any money back hes lucky i offered the 200

why did u offer 200 if u did nothing wrong? Dude i am not talking to you anymore, you are not goin to sell anything on this board or LS1tech or LS1.com until you and matt come up with a resonable solution. So stop acting like kid and do whats responsible. Once you work something out with matt, i wont have a problem deleting the posts i made.
Marcin

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
why did u offer 200 if u did nothing wrong? Dude i am not talking to you anymore, you are not goin to sell anything on this board or LS1tech or LS1.com until you and matt come up with a resonable solution. So stop acting like kid and do whats responsible. Once you work something out with matt, i wont have a problem deleting the posts i made.
Marcin


i didnt offer 200 at first i was just gonna give it to him b/c i hate dealing with all this bull **** and its not gonna matter now if u delete the posts or not its too late so it makes no diff to me if u delete them what will that change?

Originally posted by Frans96SS
i didnt offer 200 at first i was just gonna give it to him b/c i hate dealing with all this bull **** and its not gonna matter now if u delete the posts or not its too late so it makes no diff to me if u delete them what will that change?

if they do a search for your name, they wont see all the stupid junk u said?

Originally posted by xxsaint69x
if they do a search for your name, they wont see all the stupid junk u said?


ok and all the 500 people that already saw it what about them?

Has anyone even considered the possibility that the rear was damaged during shipping???

I recently had a rear shipped from Texas to PA. It lost a few nuts and bolts on the way. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the gear got bang loose or crooked while in transit from seller to buyer...


Yall seem way to quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story...

Originally posted by hot_red_z28
Has anyone even considered the possibility that the rear was damaged during shipping???

I recently had a rear shipped from Texas to PA. It lost a few nuts and bolts on the way. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the gear got bang loose or crooked while in transit from seller to buyer...


Yall seem way to quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story...




yeah ive been trying to get tell them the story but noone on here wants to listen he may be right maybe it fell on the axle and pushed it in or something i have no idea but it sure as hell didnt whine like he says it does i know that

If it was broken during shippinf something would have shown it straight up...No fliud was leaking, all the bolts were there and everything was strapped down. I cant see how it wouild get damanged. Hell he had it on 2 pallets so there was alot of room on each side of it.

Frans Never once did I ask you for a warrenty...SO I have no idea where your getting that from:confused:

matt

Originally posted by lillbush5555
If it was broken during shippinf something would have shown it straight up...No fliud was leaking, all the bolts were there and everything was strapped down. I cant see how it wouild get damanged. Hell he had it on 2 pallets so there was alot of room on each side of it.

Frans Never once did I ask you for a warrenty...SO I have no idea where your getting that from:confused:

matt



yes u did u asked me if i would gurantee it or somethign like that if it broke i dont remember exactly

Heres my .02

Moser rear ends whine, chances are it would have been just fine even if you didn't open it up.

Obviously you take a chance buying something used, I think Fran is being more than fair offering $200 and I think you should take it before he retracts his offer. If it was me I wouldn't offer any money back.

Originally posted by fastazz98camaro
Heres my .02

Moser rear ends whine, chances are it would have been just fine even if you didn't open it up.

Obviously you take a chance buying something used, I think Fran is being more than fair offering $200 and I think you should take it before he retracts his offer. If it was me I wouldn't offer any money back.

exactly what ive been trying to say it was fine for me for a year why wouldnt it be fine for him after 20 mins of him driving it and i think i already retracted my offer theres already been numerous people on here say they would neverbuy form me and all this **** this was bull **** the way he went about this

I think the only thing left to say is BUYER BEWARE!!! on every web-site they put that. I've been screwed a few times before but you have to remember that.

u ****ing guys need 2 take your ****ing bull**** off this ****ing site. If u *******s have such ****ing problems with each other u should ****ing take those ****ing problems 2 private mother****ing e-mail because u pussies r making this site look like ****ing **** with your bull**** arguments. If u ****ing ******* guys cant fix your ****ing problems that way than that is bull**** and u need 2 take your mother****ing problems up with a ****ing fraud division or the mother****ing authorities. This site is not 4 u 2 mother****ing *******s 2 use as a bull**** ****ing dispute service and ****. Whatever u 2 guys do, take it off this ****ing site because ****ing mother****ing bull**** like that should not b here at this ****ing site. If the bull**** ****ing continues here, both u 2 ****ing *******s will b out on your ****in asses. ****!

Originally posted by JasonD
u ****ing guys need 2 take your ****ing bull**** off this ****ing site. If u *******s have such ****ing problems with each other u should ****ing take those ****ing problems 2 private mother****ing e-mail because u pussies r making this site look like ****ing **** with your bull**** arguments. If u ****ing ******* guys cant fix your ****ing problems that way than that is bull**** and u need 2 take your mother****ing problems up with a ****ing fraud division or the mother****ing authorities. This site is not 4 u 2 mother****ing *******s 2 use as a bull**** ****ing dispute service and ****. Whatever u 2 guys do, take it off this ****ing site because ****ing mother****ing bull**** like that should not b here at this ****ing site. If the bull**** ****ing continues here, both u 2 ****ing *******s will b out on your ****in asses. ****!



Well said

Originally posted by JasonD
u ****ing guys need 2 take your ****ing bull**** off this ****ing site. If u *******s have such ****ing problems with each other u should ****ing take those ****ing problems 2 private mother****ing e-mail because u pussies r making this site look like ****ing **** with your bull**** arguments. If u ****ing ******* guys cant fix your ****ing problems that way than that is bull**** and u need 2 take your mother****ing problems up with a ****ing fraud division or the mother****ing authorities. This site is not 4 u 2 mother****ing *******s 2 use as a bull**** ****ing dispute service and ****. Whatever u 2 guys do, take it off this ****ing site because ****ing mother****ing bull**** like that should not b here at this ****ing site. If the bull**** ****ing continues here, both u 2 ****ing *******s will b out on your ****in asses. ****!
****:eek:

You tell them Jason:D

Originally posted by JasonD
u ****ing guys need 2 take your ****ing bull**** off this ****ing site. If u *******s have such ****ing problems with each other u should ****ing take those ****ing problems 2 private mother****ing e-mail because u pussies r making this site look like ****ing **** with your bull**** arguments. If u ****ing ******* guys cant fix your ****ing problems that way than that is bull**** and u need 2 take your mother****ing problems up with a ****ing fraud division or the mother****ing authorities. This site is not 4 u 2 mother****ing *******s 2 use as a bull**** ****ing dispute service and ****. Whatever u 2 guys do, take it off this ****ing site because ****ing mother****ing bull**** like that should not b here at this ****ing site. If the bull**** ****ing continues here, both u 2 ****ing *******s will b out on your ****in asses. ****!


well i totally agree they just keep posting **** so i have to defend my self

WTF? This isn't a bill. Anyone could write that.


Originally posted by lillbush5555
well i got the bill today...$635.00 Gears are bad and every single bearing is shot Here is the bill. http://community.webshots.com/photo/63334825/124307589sTnWWS

I dont think I should have to pay for this...do you?

matt

Originally posted by aggiez28
hole

Wow! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! You should proof your own posts once in a while.

Steve

P.S. This is supposed to be humorous, if you were offended I apologize.

Originally posted by Ed
WTF? This isn't a bill. Anyone could write that.

i dunno if this is worth a damn, but i know that most of the time that i have been hooked up at auto shops or the like, they dont exactly ring it up on the good ol' register.. i may ask for the stuff written out tho, so that i see where it all went..

you want tint darker than the legal limit? ask for a receipt and they laugh at you..

he said it was a buddy that hooked him up on a lower than normal price for what was done..

just saying that a receipt may not always be available when you are getting a killer deal..

Originally posted by JasonD
u ****ing guys need 2 take your ****ing bull**** off this ****ing site. If u *******s have such ****ing problems with each other u should ****ing take those ****ing problems 2 private mother****ing e-mail because u pussies r making this site look like ****ing **** with your bull**** arguments. If u ****ing ******* guys cant fix your ****ing problems that way than that is bull**** and u need 2 take your mother****ing problems up with a ****ing fraud division or the mother****ing authorities. This site is not 4 u 2 mother****ing *******s 2 use as a bull**** ****ing dispute service and ****. Whatever u 2 guys do, take it off this ****ing site because ****ing mother****ing bull**** like that should not b here at this ****ing site. If the bull**** ****ing continues here, both u 2 ****ing *******s will b out on your ****in asses. ****!

BIG BROTHER has spoken.

Frans96SS- STOP fueling the Fire with your hastily made retorts. Defending yourself or not, your still instigating a conversation in the wrong direction. There is no reason why this should be anywhere near 8-9 pgs. There should be progress with each post. This should already be resolved, both parties satisfied. Take into mind your actions throughout this thread are anything but satisfactory. Also take into mind any future transactions you wish to present considering this thread alone has had over 2100+ views. Your record is tarnished regardless if you are at fault or not. Like stated before THIS IS A PUBLIC forum. You should ALWAYS keep THAT in mind when posting either on your thread or making a comment on someone elses. There is ALWAYS someone watching.

lillbush5555- You've made it known what type of seller he is, and he's made it known what type customer service he provides when doing business with him. Your initial post was in consideration of the guidelines of this forum and from my perspective didn't seem like you were jumping to conclusions. Your only weakness is your "invoice" which is on a Yellow Legal Paper and is hand written. You've filed with your CC company, so you will most likely be re-imbursed not all but enough to get your car back on the road. Understand he isn't going to budge, and if his offer still stands TAKE IT. Although it ain't half, it ain't nothing either. Point being this thread was not a total loss. Although amusing at first, you'd think there would be a solution in sight.

Don't respond to this post as I am not expecting you too. Just think of me as your inner conscience trying to tell you what's the happy medium (the middle ground) for both of you. It's the only way left that you two haven't thrown out the window. You two voice your dispute on here for the reason of getting a 2nd perspective on how this should be resolved in a civilized manner. Remember that the next time you make a post in this privilidged forum. Don't take it for granted.

Ruben F.

My opinion on the whole thing.... Yes Fran has obviously not put his best foot forward with his posting in this thread. BUT, the only proof that I have seen after reading this entire long winded thread is a written sheet of paper... no letterhead (that I could see) or anything else. honestly, I wouldn't even offer 200 dollars if I was fran without better proof than that... I think I read on the original for sale post that this guy was asking for a warrenty on it... that would raise the first flag... I'm not going to be on either side on this, but I do think that all the cards are not layed on the table. How about post pictures of the broken parts, get a ledgitamite receipt (regardless if you were getting the "hookup" or not if you are wanting legal action or even to have it removed from your CC you need a better reciept than something scribbled on a piece of paper) , and a recording of the whine...

On the other side of the spectrum, I do understand what it's like to get something that you paid good money for and feel like you are getting ripped off. With that being said...

I don't know either of you guys, but I don't think it's fair to judge either way or have a flaming contest without all of the cards on the table. I think this should be done or have this thread locked or deleted. That is just my $.02

i agree with the last 3 posts thats why i dont feel like there broken i wish everyone on this site besides 1 person could hear the rear and see it b/c then 99% of the people would be on my side and not just beleive him but im done with it if he says he coming tom y house go ahead if the credit card company is gonna try to get the money back go ahead but good luck on getting money back for buying a used racing part!!

Originally posted by Frans96SS
good luck on getting money back for buying a used racing part!!

All he has to do is show that to the credit card company. The rest of the BS in this post shows your attitude. That confirms it. That IMHO shows bad faith on your part.

Since it is a used racing part, there is no warrantee, so it is OK to misrepresent the condition of the item, with no fear of recourse.

If I worked for the credit card company you would loose because of that statement.

Originally posted by Tom R.
All he has to do is show that to the credit card company. The rest of the BS in this post shows your attitude. That confirms it. That IMHO shows bad faith on your part.

Since it is a used racing part, there is no warrantee, so it is OK to misrepresent the condition of the item, with no fear of recourse.

If I worked for the credit card company you would loose because of that statement.

Unfortunately, I don't agree with your statement... the only thing that this thread shows is him being an A$$.. (no offense man) that doesn't legally mean anything. The thread does show that he was willing to try to offer some compinsation as well as it shows a HAND WRITTEN on plain paper reciept that doesn't mean anything.. heck, for all the CC company knows that could have been him that wrote it. Again, I am not taking sides on this, but unfortunately, until facts are shows, nothing can be done... as well as the gentleman did advertise the rear to have a slight "whine" to it... regardless of how bad the whine is.. slight is up for interpetation... just some things to think about.

Im thinking a couple quality pics of the gears, bearings or anything else would help imensly(sp)
lilbrush55 gotta know someone with a camera and hell i will even put them on my cardomain site for yah.
If the gears where not set right the teeth will be taperd slightly, the will be metal in the fluid(although he may have dumped it already. and if its apart bearings ~may~ be messed up.
A picture speaks a 100s words, or hand writting recipts :)

On the hand writing receipt tho, In my many many dealings with high-performance install shops etc... prolly 75% of the best do not give reciepts or hand writting at best. remember, this is know GM Goodwrench service center. Also, lilbrush555 went to a hookup with a friends at a shop to get a less $$$$ price. That means they guys was doing it on the side. thus even if the shop was the most reputable shop, he would not get a recipt. If lil brush went to like MTI or LG etc... the price would have been like $800+. witch, since he so strongly believe and Fran strongly disagrees. would solve the problem totaly.

I still dont know who to believe here based on facts, due to lack of real proof. But if we went on itegrity and the way they conduct them selves. hand down lilbrush55 is truthful.

Fran, you do realize with every single post, (so far you have not made one exception) every post you are digging you self more into a hole. You are convincing everyone reading you are lieing with each post. You are showing us your true self, that you have absolutely no integrty. You dont even know what it is and your trying to sufice that with ***, ****, *****, curse words think that will make you look like that mature one here.

You lack what a seller on the site requires, fran


ken (nutral on this case btw)

Thats exactly the same thing that my good buddy, race builder does. Writes out everything on a yellow piece of paper and adds the cost up.

I say you take your 12bolt somewhere else that these guys think have a reputation, get a quote from them on their letterhead then come back.

Originally posted by Tom R.
All he has to do is show that to the credit card company. The rest of the BS in this post shows your attitude. That confirms it. That IMHO shows bad faith on your part.

Since it is a used racing part, there is no warrantee, so it is OK to misrepresent the condition of the item, with no fear of recourse.

If I worked for the credit card company you would loose because of that statement.


i didnt misrepresent **** i told him it whined and thats the only thing wrong with it i just know it doesnt whine as bad as he sayd it does

Originally posted by camarossguy2
Im thinking a couple quality pics of the gears, bearings or anything else would help imensly(sp)
lilbrush55 gotta know someone with a camera and hell i will even put them on my cardomain site for yah.
If the gears where not set right the teeth will be taperd slightly, the will be metal in the fluid(although he may have dumped it already. and if its apart bearings ~may~ be messed up.
A picture speaks a 100s words, or hand writting recipts :)

On the hand writing receipt tho, In my many many dealings with high-performance install shops etc... prolly 75% of the best do not give reciepts or hand writting at best. remember, this is know GM Goodwrench service center. Also, lilbrush555 went to a hookup with a friends at a shop to get a less $$$$ price. That means they guys was doing it on the side. thus even if the shop was the most reputable shop, he would not get a recipt. If lil brush went to like MTI or LG etc... the price would have been like $800+. witch, since he so strongly believe and Fran strongly disagrees. would solve the problem totaly.

I still dont know who to believe here based on facts, due to lack of real proof. But if we went on itegrity and the way they conduct them selves. hand down lilbrush55 is truthful.

Fran, you do realize with every single post, (so far you have not made one exception) every post you are digging you self more into a hole. You are convincing everyone reading you are lieing with each post. You are showing us your true self, that you have absolutely no integrty. You dont even know what it is and your trying to sufice that with ***, ****, *****, curse words think that will make you look like that mature one here.

You lack what a seller on the site requires, fran


ken (nutral on this case btw)



yeah i understand thats not the right thing to do but it 500 people on a site were against u and they dont even know half the story u would get pissed too ive just had enough of this if the story was true i wouldnt even of responded but i had to defend my self in a false accusations anyone on this site would have done the same thing i didnt flip out at first until people on here that dont even know me , or have never seen or heard the rear were goin against me just based on his word i just think thats rediculous

Like I tried to say in a humorours way, this site is not a dispute resolution service.

If you feel like you are a fraud victim, take it up with the authorities who can do something about it. Arguing about it here will accomplish absolutely tnohing.