Mach 1 Vs GTO

finally, i had the chance to run side by side with one of them yesterday night. it was at an straight avenue, and the only 2 lights from the first to second are separated by at least 1 mile each. there is not construction at all from light to light.

it was a black one, stick shift, brand new dealer plates.
i was coming to the ligth and i saw it, right there, waiting for me
as soon as we made eyes contact, i revved up to let him know who was the boss. he replied me of course. we had nobody in front of us, only traffic behing us.

thanks god, i've been practicing my shifting technique at the tracks, for the last 4 weeks. we took off pretty even. i launched at 2200rpm, but by the end of first gear his front bumper was almost at my front door. we chirped second, both of us, by the time i hit third, i was at least half car ahead of him, we were even from there until the end of third, when i swear i had almost 3/4 of a car ahead, we were running at more than 100 mph, at least i was , but then we were approaching some traffic ahead of us, so we had to slow down. we got to the next light side by side
i gave him thumps up, he was like :eek:

he was revving at me, but he wasn't looking at me, we took off again, he was waiving trough the traffic to get ahead of everyone, i decided that it wasn't going to be safe, to keep on with the race and i was laughing my a***s so bad.

i made a left on the next light, home was waiting for me.
it was a pleasure to run with a goat GTO

Mach 1: 1, GTO: 0

Good Kill, sounds like 2 reasonably matched cars

Man, I feel bad for that guy. Just bought a brand new car, and he's already getting picked off by cars that have been around for a year or so.

Good race. I'm looking forward to seeing what the GTO's can do with a good driver. They aren't light, so I think that's going to hold them back. I think they run 13.8 in the 1/4. They aren't going to be any kind of freaky fast car though. I've read some things about "The Judge" GTO coming out. I wonder what kind of numbers it will put out. Either way, they are some pretty fast cars for a family sedan.

Good Kill though.

Dan

those GTO's are just pigs. weigh too much. I've seen a project GTO online where they had cut 400 lbs off the gto's weight. took out the rear seats, and safely gutted some of the inside of the doors. replaced the front seats with custom leather corbeau with blue accents (just like the stock appoulstry). got it down to f-body weight again, and ran almost 5tenths faster 1/4's and trapped like 4mph more. I'd love to see al gto's weigh this much:bow:

how much does it weigh?? my friends 99 TA 6spd weighed in at 3800 with a full tank of gas (he weighs 190-200).

Originally posted by MauriSSio
how much does it weigh?? my friends 99 TA 6spd weighed in at 3800 with a full tank of gas (he weighs 190-200).

3725 lbs. curb weight.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/pontiac/gto/100369148/specs.html?tid=edmunds.n.prices.moreresearch.0.3.P ontiac*

Nice kill.

Sounds like a good run!

I personally think there is something to be said for breaking in a motor. That GTO prolly had less than 1k miles on it. After some miles on it, it MIGHT have been a little closer.

Anyone seen the new concept Chevelle SS??? Basically the same body/motor/drivetrain as the GTO. Front end is a little different.

I sure think it would be AWSOME if they can roll that out. Last Chevelle was what, '74-75'???



Jon

Hate to say it guys, but if they roll that '05 Chevelle out....it's mine! Was waiting on the new Camaro..............but that chevelle is so sweeeeet!!:eek:

Not to burst your bubble, but I bet that GTO wasn't broken in yet, and the guy probably couldnt drive as well as you. The LS1's are kinda known for being alot slower until they're fully broken in, and I bet it would have been an almost dead heat, possibly him coming out on top past 100 maybe. Either way, good kill, and I about like those Mach1's as well as the Cobras.

Jason

GTO reminds me of an upgraded maruder

Just wait until it gets broken in a little. bye bye rustang!

Not to burst your bubble, but I bet that GTO wasn't broken in yet, and the guy probably couldnt drive as well as you.

Just wait until it gets broken in a little.Don't forget the 100lbs. of sand in the trunk, the bald tires, the malfunctioning torque management system and the requisite shop rag that GM stuffs in the throttle body before the GTO's roll off the assembly line.
:rolleyes:
S.

breaking in = over-rated.
also i dont remember reading anything about a chevelle comin out in any other magazine the CHP,coincidentally its in the April issue (april fools maybe??). I didnt read the whole article but those pictures looked fake as ***e!you guys didnt think the pics were real did you?look at the one where they take the pic from the back. If in the article they say it was photoshopped or whatever,please disregard the last few sentences!: p

Originally posted by mjb929rr
Just wait until it gets broken in a little. bye bye rustang!

i would be waiting for them :)

by the way my car has only 4000 miles. so i guess you could apply the broken in excuse to my car also :)

Only reason I bring up the breaking thing is from a 40k test of an Escalade in the form of an Avalanche in Car and Driver. The truck had the 345hp 6.0 and was close to a full second faster to 60 at 40k miles then with a few hundred on it. I also recall seeing similar stuff about tight LS1's when new.

Either way, that was a good race, and I remember seeing MM@FF's running a best of 13.1@106 on a stock Mach1 with slicks.

Jason

Originally posted by Snorman
Don't forget the 100lbs. of sand in the trunk, the bald tires, the malfunctioning torque management system and the requisite shop rag that GM stuffs in the throttle body before the GTO's roll off the assembly line.
:rolleyes:
S. [/B] Im far from impressed w/ the GTO...basically a heavier Fbody that GMs been making since 98, and a snooze of a design to boot...Nothing exciting

actually in the newest Mustang mag,they ran 13.1@105-106 on stock tires. they ran 14.0@96-97 with an automatic GT.

i doubt the LS1 tolerances are all that tight considering all the piston slap and oil consumption issues.

at least the back seats in the GTO shouldnt be as horrible as the F Body,i call the back seats in my camaro "The Dungeon" and are ususally reserved for people that have been misbehaving! ;)

Originally posted by MauriSSio
i doubt the LS1 tolerances are all that tight considering all the piston slap and oil consumption issues.

Yeah I KNOW they're not that tight. They're actually very similar to an LT1 or newer sbc. It's been found that LS1's, like LT1's do best with a light 40wt oil when oil analysis' have been conducted. But I've seen and heard of how they need more break in time than an LT1 for some reason... must be a different bearing design from a different supplier... :confused:

The oil consumption issues are just from rings that aren't tensioned as much as LT1's by design. And as for piston slap, I think that's just the nature of the hypereutectic pistons used as LT1's have had some issues with slap. I'm almost positive my friend's 97 Z he used to have had a slight amount of slap on cold days.

jason

i thought the slap had more to due with an all aluminum construction.

Originally posted by Antz97ZNJ
Im far from impressed w/ the GTO...basically a heavier Fbody that GMs been making since 98, and a snooze of a design to boot...Nothing exciting


thats exactly what a GTO isnt.


it has IRS,better interior and a more conservative design.its supposed to be a nice driving car with power.not meant for drag racing though im sure some owners will.its a far better overall car than any fbody ever was.


im not crazy about its looks either but its not meant to replace the fbody.

Originally posted by MauriSSio
i doubt the LS1 tolerances are all that tight considering all the piston slap and oil consumption issues.




piston slap is harmless and normal.some oil usage is also normal.alot of newer cars use oil and make noises.not just ls1s.



these are two symptoms that alot of people are misinformed about.way too much panic going on about this.

it looks like it has a better chance competing with bmw's and such

yes,it is more in a BMW category.GM has alot of work to do on that car if it wants to steal sales from them.

oil consumption CAN be a big issue. As for the piston slap,if i had any i wouldnt really mind it if it went away after a lil while.

if oil usage is excessive its a problem.its not worth having your motor torn down if it uses some.theres no guarantee itll cure your problem.

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
thats exactly what a GTO isnt.


it has IRS,better interior and a more conservative design.its supposed to be a nice driving car with power.not meant for drag racing though im sure some owners will.its a far better overall car than any fbody ever was.


im not crazy about its looks either but its not meant to replace the fbody. I just mean the engine has been out since 97, its not gonna turn any heads like the 98 Fbody or 03 Cobra did performance wise, enthusiates been tinkering w/ this engine for 8 yrs... basically its all been done already..no excitement or unknown expectations, and I know its not a replacement but its definately being produced to "try" to keep some of there market share, like Gm really gives a crap anyway obviously...as far as that goes I think most of the guys are keeping there fbody ls1's and saying screw the GTO...Im just confused on why GM actually built it. Id have to say for the money this car wouldnt even be in my top five...seems like the way to go today for power and handleing is the wrx n evo...both of which could outhandle this thing in a second and for sure beat it in a str8 line, and if I wanna stay w/ amer. muscl. ill pick up a used 03 Cobra w/ about 5 grand on it which is now going from anywhere in the 26k-30k neighborhood and be happy w/ a car about a second quicker stock.

why are you comparing it to any existing musclecar?you like alot of people are missing the point.GM is well aware the musclecar market is almost non existent and this car isnt aimed towards buyers that would want a cobra or fbody.



fact is this car is superior in quality to any of those cars you named and will probably sell more as more people become aware of it and GM improves on it.


i have news for you man.theres more to car than what it can do in a striaght line and though i dont like it does alot of things well.




i do think people will be changing their attitude about this car when their modded muscle car is looking GTO taillights with an ls2 under its hood.:D

Originally posted by redcamaro
finally, i had the chance to run side by side with one of them yesterday night. it was at an straight avenue, and the only 2 lights from the first to second are separated by at least 1 mile each. there is not construction at all from light to light.

it was a black one, stick shift, brand new dealer plates.
i was coming to the ligth and i saw it, right there, waiting for me
as soon as we made eyes contact, i revved up to let him know who was the boss. he replied me of course. we had nobody in front of us, only traffic behing us.

thanks god, i've been practicing my shifting technique at the tracks, for the last 4 weeks. we took off pretty even. i launched at 2200rpm, but by the end of first gear his front bumper was almost at my front door. we chirped second, both of us, by the time i hit third, i was at least half car ahead of him, we were even from there until the end of third, when i swear i had almost 3/4 of a car ahead, we were running at more than 100 mph, at least i was , but then we were approaching some traffic ahead of us, so we had to slow down. we got to the next light side by side
i gave him thumps up, he was like :eek:

he was revving at me, but he wasn't looking at me, we took off again, he was waiving trough the traffic to get ahead of everyone, i decided that it wasn't going to be safe, to keep on with the race and i was laughing my a***s so bad.

i made a left on the next light, home was waiting for me.
it was a pleasure to run with a goat GTO

Mach 1: 1, GTO: 0

How do those Mach 1's run in comparison to say, a 2002 Z-28? Seriously thinking about getting one. What are some of the highlights of the Mach?

Originally posted by USHotRod
How do those Mach 1's run in comparison to say, a 2002 Z-28? Seriously thinking about getting one. What are some of the highlights of the Mach?

A tad slower, stock for stock. Maybe 2 or 3 tenths and 2-4 mph slower on average.

Originally posted by Steve Y
A tad slower, stock for stock. Maybe 2 or 3 tenths and 2-4 mph slower on average.

Which one would respond better to mods?

Originally posted by USHotRod
Which one would respond better to mods?

The LS1.

Originally posted by Steve Y
The LS1.

Well #$%&!!!!

I was under the impression that the Mustang engines were one of the most mod-able engines out there?

a Subaru STi and a EVO are both the same cost of a GTO, which would u rather have? Your not going to spend 30k on a 4 banger with a turbo so u can run around and be the fastest on the street. Yo uwould build a civic for 10 grand that can run 9's if you wanted a turbo 4. People like V8's, People like american muscle. People love the GTO. and the gto is no slouch buddy. I guess youve never ridden/driven/ or raced one. I have did all 3. 365 ft lbs of torque it has plenty of get up and go and would whoop the STI and the EVO from a roll. It has a better ride quality. better interior, more room, and on par performance. I really dont think people are going to buy a GTO to take it to the "tw1st13eS" so they can outhandle "DA tyte REX DOG" they buy it cuz its the same price and a helluva lot better car.

I test drove a GTO and thought the scales may say it is heavy while driving it felt far from obese, it was very svelt. My T/A feels like a pig compared to it (except when the go pedal is down but my car is modded).
The car was very comfortable and very responsive to input from the wheel. It would spin the tires at will. The car I drove was an auto.

GM says they are only making 18,000 a year, so I dont think they are worried about sales.

Originally posted by Steve Y
A tad slower, stock for stock. Maybe 2 or 3 tenths and 2-4 mph slower on average.

stock for stock the 02 z28 will trap higher mph. it's a 5.7L vs a 4.6L: :)
for what i'm seen at my local tracks, irwindale,ca and carlsbad,ca the stocks ls1's are trapping at 106-107 while the stock mach's are trapping 103-104.

stock + gears 105 mph, gears+ x pipe + catback 107-108. as for the mach stock et's from 13.1 to 13.5, with some newbies 13.6-13.8 like me :o (working on it, i would have new times for the summer :)). with similar times on the stock ls1's. you would find similar et's, but higher mph on the ls1.

a lot of people agree that most of the times it would be a driver race at the tracks stock for stock. but still the ls1 would show it's power in the top end.

still, i'm in love with this baby, nice torque,nice power, nice exhaust sound, and that shaker moving while your foot is on the gas :), trust me, it looks bad ass :cool:

Originally posted by redcamaro

still, i'm in love with this baby, nice torque,nice power, nice exhaust sound, and that shaker moving while your foot is on the gas :), trust me, it looks bad ass :cool:

Thats what I thought when they came out. I'm just not a mustang guy though or I'd have one.

Originally posted by USHotRod
Which one would respond better to mods?

i don't know about the ls1's, but i've read they respond pretty good to engine mods, cam/heads and you have a 5.7L monster

as for the mach 1, you don't have a cam/heads package on this engine. but it's already a 32 valves, dual cam, high flow heads 4.6 engine and i think that's why they respond very good to a supercharge. the cost would be more or less the same for cam /heads on the ls1. the gains i think are more or less the same. i think vortech is currently offering 484hp and 420lbs/ft torque package running 9-10psi for $6000.

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/news/2003_mach1_ho.html

and there is another company offering a twin turbo system for the machs, most expensive of course, but if i had the money.... :)
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/MustangCobra.asp

also you can go the cheap route with a 125 wet shot, and you could put 423hp/499tq with the touch of a buttom. :) for now, this guy is the first one running nos only, on stock internals, stock rear end doing high 11's with nas. you can always check www.mach1registry.com for details, if you want to learn more about mach 1's.

The only way to make serious power with the 4.6 DOHC or SOHC is with a blower. Bolt ons, cam, and ported heads will not yield the same results or as good of a response as an LT1 or LS1. However, the 03 Cobras are definitely something to reckon with. It's very hard to beat how well blown engines like that one respond to bolt ons. :cool:

Jason

Originally posted by mebanditws6
The only way to make serious power with the 4.6 DOHC or SOHC is with a blower. Bolt ons, cam, and ported heads will not yield the same results or as good of a response as an LT1 or LS1. However, the 03 Cobras are definitely something to reckon with. It's very hard to beat how well blown engines like that one respond to bolt ons. :cool:

Jason

If an R1 bike engine can make 180 horsepower out of 1 liter, then why can't a 4.6 liter engine make 828 horsepower n/a?????

I wish i could know why steve :(

Originally posted by Steve Y
If an R1 bike engine can make 180 horsepower out of 1 liter, then why can't a 4.6 liter engine make 828 horsepower n/a?????

I think it could be done if the 4.6 had very lightweight internals to withstand 12,000+ rpm and was built from the ground up for the job.

I'm just glad Ford has another reasonably priced car out there to compete with GM. It may be fun to brag if you own a LS1 that your car is king, but it sure makes the scene boring. I just wish Buick would get back in the picture with some insane rear wheel drive car. Maybe a turbo charged V-6 vortec headed motor with RWD.

Originally posted by 87ROC
I just wish Buick would get back in the picture with some insane rear wheel drive car. Maybe a turbo charged V-6 vortec headed motor with RWD.
A new GN:D :bow:

Originally posted by mebanditws6
The only way to make serious power with the 4.6 DOHC or SOHC is with a blower. Bolt ons, cam, and ported heads will not yield the same results or as good of a response as an LT1 or LS1. However, the 03 Cobras are definitely something to reckon with. It's very hard to beat how well blown engines like that one respond to bolt ons. :cool:

Jason


someone forgot to tell bob cosby DOHC 4.6s dont respond well to boltons with no power adders.:cool:

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
someone forgot to tell bob cosby DOHC 4.6s dont respond well to boltons with no power adders.:cool:

It doesn't compared to the LS1. I think he only makes about 320 rwhp with quite a few bolt ons. He runs such great times by putting all the power to the ground, driving well and weight reduction.

Originally posted by Steve Y
It doesn't compared to the LS1. I think he only makes about 320 rwhp with quite a few bolt ons. He runs such great times by putting all the power to the ground, driving well and weight reduction.



youre absolutely right.i own an ls1 and i think in any form its better than a DOHC 4.6.im just giving an example of how dyno #s dont tell the whole story.



ETs measure how a car runs not a dyno.:D im willing to bet i have more power than bob but i cant touch his time.