jg95z28 02-13-2004, 12:38 PM Instead of an AWD Camaro how about considering this shared body style line-up for Zeta: (Doesn't include utes, elkys, or V6 derivatives in some cases, etc)
Group A - Based on the current Monaro/GTO style
Holden Monaro - V8 RWD
Pontiac GTO - V8 RWD
Buick GS - TurboV6 RWD (exact name TBD)
Group B - Based on a sexier 2+2 Sports Coupe
Chevrolet Camaro - V8 RWD
Holden Torana - V8 RWD?
Cadillac XLZ - V8 AWD (exact name TDB)
Instead of upscaling the Camaro with AWD, keep it a lean and mean RWD car and create an upscale version with AWD in Cadillac's camp.
Thoughts? :rolleyes:
while you are almost right I disagree with the Cadillac one. I do believe that Buick should get only one "flagship" RWD car and that would be the AWD derivative.
If i'm not mistaken a version of the Opel Insignia should also be on that list along with possiblyone SAAB and those can go on the list along with the GTO
I would also add the Grand Prix in that list somewhere perhaps in the 2+2 coupe category.
This is also leaving out that larger Sedan version of Zeta that should spawn a Caprice/Commodore/Statesman and also a possible RWD Impala (or another name if they choose to leave Impala with FWD)
so something like this:
Group A - Based on the current Monaro/GTO style
Holden Monaro - V8 RWD
Pontiac GTO - V8 RWD
SAAB ????? - TurboV6 RWD (exact name TBD)
Group B - Based on a sexier 2+2 Sports Coupe
Chevrolet Camaro - V8 RWD
Holden Torana - V8 RWD?
Buick ****** - V8 AWD (exact name TDB)
Group C - Based on larger sedan
Holden Statesman
Chevrolet Caprice
Chevrolet ***** (Either Impala or another name)
Opel Insignia (or another name)
PacerX 02-13-2004, 12:51 PM The top Camaro should be AWD.
guionM 02-13-2004, 01:01 PM Originally posted by PacerX
The top Camaro should be AWD.
That would also likely mean an automatic tranny, right?
jg95z28 02-13-2004, 01:02 PM Originally posted by PacerX
The top Camaro should be AWD. I said instead of. :mad:
If the top Camaro is AWD, GM just lost a customer.
Z284ever 02-13-2004, 01:52 PM Originally posted by guionM
That would also likely mean an automatic tranny, right?
You may be right on that.
How about adding the Firebird or TA to group B, they could be the AWD version of the Camaro, plus they would be lighter than the GTO
Darth Xed 02-13-2004, 02:11 PM I am all for an AWD Camaor derivitive.... but it must be available with a 6-speed.
I know some of the reasons why it may not be offered... but that would suck the fun right out of the car, IMO.
stars1010 02-13-2004, 04:24 PM I’m surprised no one has said anything about an AWD GTO. I almost expect the GTO to be AWD. It just seems natural with the direction that car is headed in.
I’m not sure if I like the top Camaro performing going AWD. I think the top performing Camaro should be designated by the highest hp motor in the line up, the most extreme racing inspired suspension, a hard top and a six speed; Similar to the current Z06. I wouldn’t mind see AWD as an option on the top of the line Camaro, but I think you should be able to get RWD if you want it. If this new Zeta architecture is so flexible and is serving so many different lines of vehicles GM should let AWD be a stand alone option on the Camaro only to order if you want it. But at the same time it should only be offered as an option on the top of the line Camaro.
PacerX 02-13-2004, 04:54 PM Originally posted by jg95z28
I said instead of. :mad:
If the top Camaro is AWD, GM just lost a customer.
BYE!
PacerX 02-13-2004, 04:56 PM Originally posted by guionM
That would also likely mean an automatic tranny, right?
Plenty of AWD cars out there with manuals.
91_z28_4me 02-14-2004, 01:43 PM If the base vette and the top Camaro have the same motor and the Camaro is AWD wouldn't that put the vette into a slower 1/4 mile time than another GM car? I don't know how much team Corvette, who is working on the Camaro would like that.
90 Z28SS 02-14-2004, 03:11 PM A glimpse into the future
"GM pricing set on 2007 camaro Z28 ......$45K with a curb weight of 3850 lbs :p :rolleyes: "
How about we just leave AWD , which has had nothing ever to do with a camaro , to other divisions ......keep the current formula , remember... that rwd affordable 2+2 with great looks and power and just build a better damn car;)
hp_nut 02-14-2004, 03:40 PM Originally posted by jg95z28
I said instead of. :mad:
If the top Camaro is AWD, GM just lost a customer.
Dead on.
Last thing we need is a 4000lb Chevy redo of the Mitsubishi VR4.
Darth Xed 02-16-2004, 06:34 AM A lot of other things have added weight to the Camaro over the years....
Standard seat belts.
Standard Power steering.
Standard Power brakes.
Standard Air Conditioning.
ABS
ASR
6 disc CD changers
Airbags
The list goes on.
Some of you guys are making too much of an issue out of the possibility of AWD being negative, especially since it would be an option.
It's not like the car would be based on FWD or have a turbo 4-banger for a top motor.
90 Z28SS 02-16-2004, 03:45 PM Originally posted by Darth Xed
A lot of other things have added weight to the Camaro over the years....
Standard seat belts.
Standard Power steering.
Standard Power brakes.
Standard Air Conditioning.
ABS
ASR
6 disc CD changers
Airbags
The list goes on.
Thats stretching it just a wee bit :p
Some of you guys are making too much of an issue
And the same can be said of those in favor;)
Originally posted by 90 Z28SS
A glimpse into the future
"GM pricing set on 2007 camaro Z28 ......$45K with a curb weight of 3850 lbs :p :rolleyes: "
How about we just leave AWD , which has had nothing ever to do with a camaro , to other divisions ......keep the current formula , remember... that rwd affordable 2+2 with great looks and power and just build a better damn car;)
So then get the sub $30K 3400lbs. RWD Camaro Z28. No one here is saying AWD should be standard equipment on all Camaros.
I'm sure a lot of people would buy a 245HP V6 w/ AWD for $25K, especially here in the North east. Let the market decide, if people don't want AWD they won't buy it. The number 1 reason people tell me they won't buy a Camaro is because it is RWD.
90 Z28SS 02-16-2004, 09:10 PM Originally posted by Z28x
So then get the sub $30K 3400lbs. RWD Camaro Z28. No one here is saying AWD should be standard equipment on all Camaros.
I'm sure a lot of people would buy a 245HP V6 w/ AWD for $25K, especially here in the North east. Let the market decide, if people don't want AWD they won't buy it. The number 1 reason people tell me they won't buy a Camaro is because it is RWD.
And just having that AWD option is gonna drive the prices higher across the line . The mustang , even in its last days on the fox platform doesnt have any touble consistently selling a 100K + cars a year . Where would a logical argument be that camaro need awd available as an option .
Guess I just agree to disagree ...no biggie .
Z284ever 02-16-2004, 09:33 PM Originally posted by 90 Z28SS
And just having that AWD option is gonna drive the prices higher across the line .
Not necessarilly.
AWD isn't being developed specifically for the Camaro. It is a feature being incorporated into the architecture that we believe the Camaro will use.
The several hundred thousand cars per year, built on this architecture, (including Camaro), will pay for AWD....whether Camaro gets it or not.
The Camaro needs a LS2 or LS7 with a live rear axle, real dual exhaust and a T-56. Curb weight in the neighborhood of 3300 lbs and 400+ horsepower. All for less than 35K.
morb|d 02-17-2004, 12:52 AM how about the caddy "XTC"? it would be a rave with the younger crowd looking for the smaller brother of the XLR. it would have to be based on Kappa not Zeta though. or they could just skip the foreplay and go straight to naming their cars after frats. how about Kappa Gamma Beta? :rolleyes:
Darth Xed 02-17-2004, 06:26 AM Originally posted by Z284ever
Not necessarilly.
AWD isn't being developed specifically for the Camaro. It is a feature being incorporated into the architecture that we believe the Camaro will use.
The several hundred thousand cars per year, built on this architecture, (including Camaro), will pay for AWD....whether Camaro gets it or not.
This is the all-important factor.... without it, I would not even propose AWD on a Camaro... but being that it should be readily available in a sort of "plug and play" parts bin thing... Chevy would be foolish to not at least consider it as an option.
jg95z28 02-17-2004, 12:36 PM Thanks for hijacking my thread guys and turning it into a debate on AWD vs. RWD. :mad:
Darth Xed 02-17-2004, 01:09 PM Originally posted by jg95z28
Instead of an AWD Camaro how about considering this shared body style line-up for Zeta: (Doesn't include utes, elkys, or V6 derivatives in some cases, etc)
Group A - Based on the current Monaro/GTO style
Holden Monaro - V8 RWD
Pontiac GTO - V8 RWD
Buick GS - TurboV6 RWD (exact name TBD)
Group B - Based on a sexier 2+2 Sports Coupe
Chevrolet Camaro - V8 RWD
Holden Torana - V8 RWD?
Cadillac XLZ - V8 AWD (exact name TDB)
Instead of upscaling the Camaro with AWD, keep it a lean and mean RWD car and create an upscale version with AWD in Cadillac's camp.
Thoughts? :rolleyes:
Well, you kind of had the whole thing tied in with AWD and RWD to begin with... :think:
jg95z28 02-17-2004, 02:19 PM Originally posted by Darth Xed
Well, you kind of had the whole thing tied in with AWD and RWD to begin with... :think: Not as a CAMARO. But instead as a "what if" a sister car was offered in AWD trim by another GM company, like Cadillac or Buick.
The idea being that AWD is consider by many to be an "upscale" option, and Buick/Cadillac are more traditionally in that ballpark, while Chevrolet is more traditionally the "value" brand.
Specifically, would those people who want AWD accept it on another loaded vehicle if it had a different badge and name, but was essentially the same car with AWD? :confused:
hp_nut 02-17-2004, 05:54 PM Originally posted by jg95z28
Not as a CAMARO. But instead as a "what if" a sister car was offered in AWD trim by another GM company, like Cadillac or Buick.
The idea being that AWD is consider by many to be an "upscale" option, and Buick/Cadillac are more traditionally in that ballpark, while Chevrolet is more traditionally the "value" brand.
Specifically, would those people who want AWD accept it on another loaded vehicle if it had a different badge and name, but was essentially the same car with AWD? :confused:
Oh.. well then that would be OK.;)
Darth Xed 02-18-2004, 07:32 AM Originally posted by jg95z28
Not as a CAMARO. But instead as a "what if" a sister car was offered in AWD trim by another GM company, like Cadillac or Buick.
The idea being that AWD is consider by many to be an "upscale" option, and Buick/Cadillac are more traditionally in that ballpark, while Chevrolet is more traditionally the "value" brand.
Specifically, would those people who want AWD accept it on another loaded vehicle if it had a different badge and name, but was essentially the same car with AWD? :confused:
I've been down that road too.... I suggested that perhaps AWD would be a nic way to differentiate a new Firebird from the new Camaro if they ended up doing a Firebird too...
But, ya, assuming there is no Firebird, it works that way too....
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