Who says Car and Driver doesn't like American cars?

This interesting passage from Patrick Bedard's column on road test cars he's fallen for in the March 2004 issue of Car and Driver:


" I, too, have played the broken-hearted fool. When the 1970 1/2 Camaro came around, it was a looker, all Euro smooth and Pininfarina tidy of line, but I was in love with the tappety-tappet mechanical intensity of the previous, solid-lifter Z28s and the raw behavior of the old flexy chassis. Oooeee, baby! And Mark Donahue had won alot of Trans-Ams in those chunky Camaros. The new one seemed too refined, too subtle, too reserved, too unwilling to breathe hard and get sweaty: 'The Z28 is not as thrilling as it once was', I wrote in May 1970.
I was in love with the old girl, but love is a conflict of interest for car testers. I had to learn to love ' em and leave ' em. "

Interesting read.:)

That was Then this is Now.

Though they always perferred the 4th Gen. Camaro over the Mustang.

It really irritates me how most mainstream magazines ( car & driver, consumers guide, etc. ) only focus on certain aspects of a vehicle. I remember reading the Consumer Reports review of the Vette and it was something like.... No room, lack of refinement, interiort too cheap for a 50K car. I didnt see one mention of "its a blast to drive and it performs as well as cars that are several thousands above it in price. I wont get into what they said about the camaro. :rolleyes:

We have too many cylinders and they don't like that it seems.... They're wacky sometimes, anyone remember when C&D compared the Mustang GT, Monte Carlo SS, and the Stratus RT and the RT got first although it was the slowest.... They have different priorities.

Originally posted by CamaroRSguy
We have too many cylinders and they don't like that it seems.... They're wacky sometimes, anyone remember when C&D compared the Mustang GT, Monte Carlo SS, and the Stratus RT and the RT got first although it was the slowest.... They have different priorities.

That comparo wasn't really about 0-60..... It was about,... which is the most liveable, comfortable, daily driver coupe, for about $25K.

There wouldn't be much need for any type of road tests if 0-60 were the only criteria. If it were....Viper would be better than any vehicle of any type in the world.

Minivan comparo: Viper Wins!

Econo car comparo: Viper Wins!

Truck of the year: Viper Wins!

Why wouldn't Viper win? It'll beat them all in 0-60 and has the most cylinders.

I think that comparo wasn't about strictly 0-60. It was about which is the most liveable, daily driver coupe for about $25K.
I agree, but it seems they want "ALL" vehicles to meet the "SAME" criteria...roomy, useable trunk...large comfortable seating...refined = smooth ride...cheapest $$...
If Cadillac would lower its prices it would win all catagories as you say the Viper would...
It seems, since the mid '80's most New Car mags have had thing for *** cars, and everything gets compared to them...tho most of them, like the Ford "Taurus's" aren't considered so great when they get some miles and neglect on them...and they usually will not tolerate as much neglect as a comparable Domestic...

The point is tho, I believe, it's impossible to use the same measuring stick for every type of vehicle, disregarding its intended use...:no:

(Like the Pontiac Aztek, we think it's ugly, but J.D.Powers rated it as the No.1 loved SUV by entry level SUV buyers...go figure..)

I think it was C&D that had a comparo of various 2 door convertables, from Solara, Startus, Eclipse, and a Z28 Convert. I think they liked the Solara and Startus for comfort and interior quality, but they gave the Z28 first place because it was the most fun to drive. I remember they mentioned that alot of drivers thought the Z28 was scarier to drive and required more attention.. but they countered it by saying it was because the Z28 was able to carry more speed thru the turns, accel alot faser and brake faster than the rest.. so of course its going to be more of an eyeopener! lol

Originally posted by USHotRod
It really irritates me how most mainstream magazines ( car & driver, consumers guide, etc. ) only focus on certain aspects of a vehicle. I remember reading the Consumer Reports review of the Vette and it was something like.... No room, lack of refinement, interiort too cheap for a 50K car. I didnt see one mention of "its a blast to drive and it performs as well as cars that are several thousands above it in price. I wont get into what they said about the camaro. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Consumer Reports is the worst, they worship imports. I remember one time they called the Corvette a big, heavy RWD coupe that uses alot of gas.:rolleyes: then again I think they called every American RWD car that over the years.

Going through most of these posts, it's pretty obvious to me that many of you have never read Car and Driver.

Let me remind everyone, that when all the other mags had long since given up on the 4th gen...C&D still had positive things to say.

Car and Driver has always been very good to the Camaro...and whenever their was some constructive criticism doled out...I always thought it was done in a fair way.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Going through most of these posts, it's pretty obvious to me that many of you have never read Car and Driver.

Let me remind everyone, that when all the other mags had long since given up on the 4th gen...C&D still had positive things to say.

Car and Driver has always been very good to the Camaro...and whenever their was some constructive criticism doled out...I always thought it was done in a fair way.
exactly! i don't see why C&D gets such a bad rep on this board. I always thought it was an excellent mag. I would actually say they have a sore spot for the general having read it for 6 years now. and doubtless its the best car mag on the market as far as accuracy of information, style of writing (except Yates, though he too plays a role in flavoring of the mag) and features and articles. CHP, etc are all nitch mags with nitch agendas. they don't review hundreds of cars a year...

I don't ever read consumer report and don't see why anyone on this board would. Its sterile. They are not "car guys" and they don't write for "car guys". Its expected that they will approach the car as we approach the refrigirator then, isn't it? Nobody is forcing you to read it, but you have to appreciate their point of view before you bash them for what they write.

If you think about it, if you're not into computers and you're one of those people who uses it for the email and word, then you'll obviously think everything else is useless fluff, but there are people who love many more aspects of computers than you can appreciate. to each his own.

Originally posted by FlyBono24
I hated how every year Consumer Reports would bash the f-bodies with the same repetitive crap year after year.... "backseat not big enough for two adults"..... "creaks and rattles"..... "cheap interior"..... "bad depreciation".....


Yea how can they get away with lies like that! We all know the back seat is huge and very confortable. The interior is one of the best ever put into a production car and these things hold their value so well.

Originally posted by Z284ever
When the 1970 1/2 Camaro came around, it was a looker, all Euro smooth and Pininfarina tidy of line, but I was in love with the tappety-tappet mechanical intensity of the previous, solid-lifter Z28s and the raw behavior of the old flexy chassis.... The new one seemed too refined, too subtle, too reserved, too unwilling to breathe hard and get sweaty: 'The Z28 is not as thrilling as it once was', I wrote in May 1970.
b]

And now that's all they rave about. Chassis stiffess and suspension isolation is everything. I'm admittedly in the big minority here, But I love the 70-1/2 models year(s). Sexy curves, crease line down the side, steeply raked rear glass, IMO better than the '69, although I thing the '69 had slightly better proportions (the 70-1/2 hood I think is a little too long.)

I'd like to se the 5th gen an evolution of this body style, which was what I was trying (unsuccsesfully it seems) to do in my concept skectch.

Originally posted by ol'93formula
Yea how can they get away with lies like that! We all know the back seat is huge and very confortable. The interior is one of the best ever put into a production car and these things hold their value so well. :lol:

Originally posted by dream '94 Z28
And now that's all they rave about. Chassis stiffess and suspension isolation is everything. I'm admittedly in the big minority here, But I love the 70-1/2 models year(s). Sexy curves, crease line down the side, steeply raked rear glass, IMO better than the '69, although I thing the '69 had slightly better proportions (the 70-1/2 hood I think is a little too long.)

I'd like to se the 5th gen an evolution of this body style, which was what I was trying (unsuccsesfully it seems) to do in my concept skectch.

Tim, you're not alone in your love for the '70 1/2...especially with the split bumper front end. Whenever I see one....I nearly melt.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Tim, you're not alone in your love for the '70 1/2...especially with the split bumper front end. Whenever I see one....I nearly melt.

It's not easy being me:D

C&D is not as bad as they were, but when i was coming of age in the mid to late 80s, I NEVER read a positive word about GM, and GM lost EVERY comparo during that time...Granted, i know GM was not necc at the top of their game during this time, but as a kid, their articles colored my judgement to the point where i was almost ashamed to be driven in my parents' cars (both drove GM at the time)...Consumer reports from that era was just as bad in their judgement of domestic cars (i remember the ford tempo as one car they half-way liked).

Nowadays, I'll still occasionally read C&D if i have a few extra mins at Giant...I also have serious issues with Yates' and Bedard's editorials each month, but then again, i didn't like them as a kid either...

Originally posted by Magnum Force
I NEVER read a positive word about GM, and GM lost EVERY comparo during that time...

EVERY and NEVER are pretty big words.....and you would be wrong.

Just off the top of my head....

In the '80's, when C&D would do their nearly annual Camaro vs Mustang shootout....when Camaro would win, that would have been a GM car.

When the early 3rd gen Z/28 was voted "Best Handling Car For Under $25K" ( or whatever the number was)....that was a GM car winning.

Like I've said previously, I think C&D has been very good to the Camaro.

And, up until recently...Chevy has won nearly every truck comparo
in C&D. The Corvette is also found on their Top 10 list, year after year.

Some of you guys ought to pop for the $3.99 and take a copy home and ACTUALLY read it....instead of parroting that same old tired "media bias" story, over and over.

woo hoo, people like my car. My life is complete.

No, it's not a split bumper....bastards.

maybe i shouldn't have used 'never' but that's how i seem to remember it (then again i was 9 years old when i started reading C&D, so memory could be playng games with me)

And i was mainly referring to U.S.-import comparos, not stang-fbody

Originally posted by JG/70Z
woo hoo, people like my car. My life is complete.

No, it's not a split bumper....bastards.

I still like it all the same:thumb:

Originally posted by Z284ever
This interesting passage from Patrick Bedard's column on road test cars he's fallen for in the March 2004 issue of Car and Driver:


Bedard worked for Chrysler back in the interesting days, and as such has shown a lot of love for classic Hemis. He seems to like performance cars of that era in general, penning not only a list of 10-best muscle cars back in the late 80s/early 90s for their annual 10-best issue, but also occassionally sharing some pretty cool stories of testing cars from that era. Nowadays, he seems to find a lot more joy in talking about the politics of cars than the cars themselves :(

Also note that the Vette beat a Boxster, M Roadster, and SLK in C&D's $50K drop-top test from a couple years ago, and that the Vette has frequently been on their top-10 list since the C5 debuted. It just goes to show that they'll give credit to an American car if it doesn't suck. Build crap, though, and they'll skewer the manufacturer.

Hell, I think they said some pretty nice words about the Ion in their long-term wrap-up.

Originally posted by Eric Bryant
It just goes to show that they'll give credit to an American car if it doesn't suck. Build crap, though, and they'll skewer the manufacturer.



That's exactly right!

You give them crappy cars...and they won't go the wishy washy non-commital route...that, say MT goes.....they WILL CRUCIFY YOU!

Send them good cars however, and C&D will rave.

Afew years ago there was a scathing column in one of the British mags, ( I think it was CARS), on American cars. This one was completely over the top. It was offensive, rude and not even factual. I was taken completely aback and completely p!ssed off when I read it.

Well, apparently Csaba Csera...the editor of C&D, read it too. He devoted his WHOLE column to a blisteringly whithering response to said British author and his magazine. He completely ripped them a new one...point for point.....and he named names. IT WAS NOT PRETTY!!!!
I have never seen such an effective and eloquent defense of the American auto industry.:usa:

They're still biased, maybe not as much as some other Mags, but their obvious leanings towards foreign cars CAN'T be denied...
For the record, I've got issues going back to 1998 that I haven't pitched yet, and let my subscription lapse in 2002...I got tired of hardly EVER seeing them favor domestics over imports, with a few exceptions like the Viper, Vette etc...
A few examples?:
Cougar V6 vs Accord Coupe 4cyl = Accrord Coupe
Although the Cougar performed better at speed, and matched the Accord everywhere else, AND was priced $2K-$3K less. It was bashed for "rear seat access", the shape and feel of the seats, inside door handles, clutch slop(?), and UH OH!...it's lack of "REFINEMENT!"....:rolleyes: ALTHOUGH, they said you can tell the chassis was tuned by Ford of Europe stating that "the harder you push the car on curvy roads, the MORE confident the chassis feels", and ,"Push the Cougar to its limits and it responds with increasingly competent damping, EVEN OVER THE ROUGHEST RAILROAD CROSSINGS"...(wtf?? is refinement??)
The rest is just rehashing how GREAT the Honda was...:rolleyes:

I can go on and on with at least "4 years" of this...

Hey, I was able to find my 1985 "yellowed" issue of Consumer Reports. Here's what they said abot the First IROC:
"Back rest was too reclined and tall drivers didn't have enough head or leg room. Chevy has dumped the confusing dual-point speedometer, but the gages are still aimed too low to be easily read."
"Head room is limited all around and the tiny back seat is suitable only for kids. Nasty exhaust bark is too loud at all speeds..(:lol: )
"Low slung coupe is hard to get in or out of and the long heavy doors are hard to open. Cargo area is shallow.
(Remember they're testing a group of "Sports Cars" not family sedans..:lol: )
"Summary": Chevy's 2 + 2 "Muscle Car"(305tpi/auto=tested) offers super performance at the expense of comfort and (uh oh...here it comes..) refinement.

Chry.Laser:
"Promising, but less pleasant and practical than most Japanese rivals. Chrysler's 5/50 waranty is a big plus."
Dodge Daytona:
Daytona is very quick with the turbo, but the lack of "refinement" is a big drawback for us."
Mustang:
Mustang GT is a bargain Muscle Car that equals or surpasses the Z28 in most key areas."(Note: didn't say IROC.)


NOW for the imports:
Prelude..
"Peppy coupe has good brakes, fine handling and a likeable nature. Fun to drive and a great value for the money."
Civic CRX:
"Thrifty, fun to drive car that loses a lot of zip in HF form b/c of tall gearing."
Nissan Maxima"
"Hard to believe Nissan can offer this much car for $13,499 though dealers are asking more than that.
Mitsu Galant:
Mitsubishi has packed nice features in a pleasant car with an impressively low price.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Afew years ago there was a scathing column in one of the British mags, ( I think it was CARS), on American cars. This one was completely over the top. It was offensive, rude and not even factual. I was taken completely aback and completely p!ssed off when I read it.

Well, apparently Csaba Csera...the editor of C&D, read it too. He devoted his WHOLE column to a blisteringly whithering response to said British author and his magazine. He completely ripped them a new one...point for point.....and he named names. IT WAS NOT PRETTY!!!!
I have never seen such an effective and eloquent defense of the American auto industry.:usa:

I have that issue, and it is truly a good read. :D:bow: