Say what.....Bob?!?!?!?!

http://cheersandgears.com/boards/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12478

Boy, he must have really gotten his hand slapped for his earlier comments.... :cry: LOL!

"A deal's a deal"....but that "deal" runs out in 18+/- months.....:eek:

Me doths think he protests too much......;) :D :p

IIRC that contract is done in 05, so he's right, a deal is a deal. But after that, all bets are off. (06/07) He knows it's coming. We know it's coming.

Yeah, I saw that earlier and I was very surprised. However, I still say it is BS. No way would GM say that they will not build a car called "Camaro or Firebird" again because they made a "deal". I think he is saying this because GM still can't say anything about the Camaro yet. My guess is ole' Lutz wants people to stop holding out for the 5th gen.:D

I actually had this idea cross my mind the other day. What if they brought back a Camaro like car but didn’t call it Camaro.

Originally posted by stars1010
I actually had this idea cross my mind the other day. What if they brought back a Camaro like car but didn’t call it Camaro.

I, for one, would be extremely dissapointed. Say all you want about Chevelles and El Caminos. IMO none of these hold a candle to the prestige and recognition the Camaro gets.

I hate this kind of talk.

Why not just say "no comment", or something like that?

Flat out denying Camaro (and Firebird) will come back just puts off more people hoping it comes back, and then makes him out to be a liar if (when) the car does come back.

Sounds like somebody who feels the heat from facts that are a little too close for comfort...."No, no, don't look over there...." LOL!

Originally posted by Doug Harden
Sounds like somebody who feels the heat from facts that are a little too close for comfort...."No, no, don't look over there...." LOL!


:lol:

"Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain!"

Maybe they could call the new Chevy pony car "Camero" instead :D

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I hate this kind of talk.

Why not just say "no comment", or something like that?

It's Bob Lutz. When does he NOT have a comment?? :lol:

Remember the comment about the Camaro not coming back for 30 years? :p

Originally posted by Joe K. 96 Zeee!!
It's Bob Lutz. When does he NOT have a comment?? :lol:

Remember the comment about the Camaro not coming back for 30 years? :p

Ya... I guess you've got a VERY good point... the man is quite colorful!

I feel certain that the Camaro will be back but it may not be the first new RWD performance car we see from Chevy. Chevy needs volume car sales now,and I won't be surprised if we see a new Chevelle or even Monte Carlo first.

Originally posted by Z28x
Maybe they could call the new Chevy pony car "Camero" instead :D

Hows about "El Camaro":D

Bob Lutz still retains the privilege of changing a cars name, even at the last minute, so it's possible given his history so far. However, read exactly what is said & don't read into it. ;)

The pledge was made to The Canadian Auto Workers, NOT to the Ste. Therese plant itself.

Also, there is an expiration date to that agreement.

Then there's the slipup from 8 months ago:
Automotive News, July 11, 2003:
"In a speech Wednesday to Detroit-based auto writers, Mark Reuss, executive director of GM's Performance Division, said GM plans to:

Build at least one high-performance model for each division, a vehicle that leverages the division's performance heritage, such as Super Sport or SS models for Chevrolet and GTO for Pontiac.

Look a for a suitable rear-wheel drive platform for a next generation Chevrolet Camaro."

There is a "small sporty RWD Chevy coupe" under development.

Originally posted by guionM
Bob Lutz still retains the privilege of changing a cars name, even at the last minute, so it's possible given his history so far. However, read exactly what is said & don't read into it. ;)

...
There is a "small sporty RWD Chevy coupe" under development.

Guion you seem a little more GM friendly within the past few days then you were last week, has there been some information come up as to change your prospective?;) Seriously inquiring minds want to know.:D

Originally posted by Z28x
Maybe they could call the new Chevy pony car "Camero" instead :D

*LMAO*...That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!!...

And for our non-spanish speaking members.... "Camero" means "little shrimp." :mad:

Don't forget, when Bob told the CAW that the f-bodies wouldn't be built elsewhere... he was talking about the 4th gen f-bodies. :D

If there's going to be a name change to "save face", they could always call it Z28. ;)

But then promises are meant to be broken and contracts breeched or voided. Let the lawyers decide and just call it "Camaro". :p

What are you doing to us, Bob???
I can't believe he would make an agreement to silence one of the MOST WELL KNOWN, WELL LOVED names in the Auto Industry, for any reason...the car just wouldn't be the same w/o the name...Maybe it isn't a Camaro in the works(right now) but a "Chevelle" or "SS" or something New...at least until the agreement expires...Or does a complete redesign fall outside this agreement???

("Camaro" means friend, lets keep our old friend, huh??no shrimp.):lol:

I've thought long about this and for the life of me, other than using the name Camaro, there's no way to write an agreement that would encompass any 2 door, RWD, V8 powered sports car....otherwise we wouldn't have the GTO.

Bob is walking a fine line here I know, and I still say the internet and the thousands of eyes and ears is changing the way things are done....secrecy is almost gone.

Remember, GM will be slammed HARD if they violate the agreement, so I'm sure Bob will say nearly anything to keep something very bad from happening.......imagine the sentiment inside the CAW with the leaking reports of the Austrailian connection...:eek:

Tomato, Tomatoe, Torano whatever it's called in the interim, we know what it'll be...............but I do wonder when some of us will be asked to cool it a smidgen.......LOL!

Originally posted by 90rocz
What are you doing to us, Bob???
I can't believe he would make an agreement to silence one of the MOST WELL KNOWN, WELL LOVED names in the Auto Industry, for any reason...

Your disbelief is well founded. Lutz didn't have anything to do with the agreement. It was made years before he even came back to GM.

Originally posted by 91_z28_4me
Guion you seem a little more GM friendly within the past few days then you were last week, has there been some information come up as to change your prospective?;) Seriously inquiring minds want to know.:D

My irritation last week was related to GM's statements that it can bring a car from start to finish in 18-24 months, yet seem to be postponing a group of vehicles for no apparent purpose other than simply footdragging for whatever reason.

GM does have some really great stuff in the development stages. If they would actually stop delaying, they'd probally rule the automotive world in very short order.

Why does the CAW contract at St Therese still matter if the next gen Camaro is going to be built in Canada anyway? Did we hear Zeta was going to be built in Ontario?

****, by the time this car comes out, I'll be graduating college and probably looking for a less sporty car. Screw the CAW. Make the car. You're losing support base by saying this crap.

Originally posted by Mutiny32
****, by the time this car comes out, I'll be graduating college and probably looking for a less sporty car.

I'll be graduating about the same time too. I find it odd that you say that because GM will be targeting our demographic for the next Camaro. If I'm set up with my first job I plan on buying a 5th gen.

Originally posted by Mutiny32
Screw the CAW. Make the car. You're losing support base by saying this crap.

Yeah that can’t exactly do that. The CAW builds thousands upon thousand of cars for GM right now. GM pisses them off and they lose more than a small percentage of Camaro support base, they lose millions of $$$. Plus the next Camaro will most likely be built in Canada. Also I doubt GM wants to get sued.

Meh, I was pissed.

I used to be frustrated with GM for leaving us in the dark with Camaro, but as time goes by it seems like lots of other neat alternatives keep popping up from other companies, eager to meet my needs of affordable, fun transportation. Comments like "Not a Chance" by Lutz and crew only seem to make the competition more appealing.

Ah, hell, maybe I'll just buy another Mustang...

I find this quote from Bob to be rather interesting. This is the first time that I have seen where someone at this level at GM has implied that the contract and/or plant closing had anything to do with the death of the Firebird and Camaro.

I know this scenario is basically believed to be fact from most on this board ( me included), but this is the first time I have seen it stated this way from GM. Up till now, we have been getting utter B.S. about poor sales and "lack of market potential" as the reason.

The other interesting part of this is his comment that bringing the pony cars back would be an "appealing notion".

If one were to read between the lines, this statement could read the following: "The pony cars were killed because of plant, union, and political reasons. We would love to bring these cars back, but we are unable too at this time because of agreements made during the plant closing negociations."

As others have said, this agreement has an expiration date!

Originally posted by holeshot
I find this quote from Bob to be rather interesting. This is the first time that I have seen where someone at this level at GM has implied that the contract and/or plant closing had anything to do with the death of the Firebird and Camaro.

I know this scenario is basically believed to be fact from most on this board ( me included), but this is the first time I have seen it stated this way from GM. Up till now, we have been getting utter B.S. about poor sales and "lack of market potential" as the reason.

The other interesting part of this is his comment that bringing the pony cars back would be an "appealing notion".

If one were to read between the lines, this statement could read the following: "The pony cars were killed because of plant, union, and political reasons. We would love to bring these cars back, but we are unable too at this time because of agreements made during the plant closing negociations."

As others have said, this agreement has an expiration date!


Excellent points across the board.

It does "confirm" a lot of the stuff we've been saying here for a long time now.

Something i just noticed about his comment. In a way you could read it as Lutz is saying they are making a new Camaro right now.
GM pledged to the Canadian Auto Workers that it would not make them elsewhere. Lutz says reviving the pony cars would be an appealing notion.

he never once denies that they will never make a Camaro again, instead he just says where it is going to be made.

Originally posted by FlyBono24
:bs:

We've already heard from many inside sources on this board, and I've heard from a relative of mine at Chevrolet, that the Camaro is pretty much guaranteed for the near future.
ditto... my sources say the same.

however if GM doesnt bring back the camaro... I will not be buying a GM product anytime within the next 10 years or even more depending on how things go with thier lineup. Im disgusted with their lineup right now with the exception of the GTO [edit: forgot the C6]. For the first time in my life I like dodge trucks better than chevy's (by that I mean 03+)

Originally posted by guionM
Bob Lutz still retains the privilege of changing a cars name, even at the last minute, so it's possible given his history so far. However, read exactly what is said & don't read into it. ;)

The pledge was made to The Canadian Auto Workers, NOT to the Ste. Therese plant itself.

Also, there is an expiration date to that agreement.

Then there's the slipup from 8 months ago:
Automotive News, July 11, 2003:
"In a speech Wednesday to Detroit-based auto writers, Mark Reuss, executive director of GM's Performance Division, said GM plans to:

Build at least one high-performance model for each division, a vehicle that leverages the division's performance heritage, such as Super Sport or SS models for Chevrolet and GTO for Pontiac.

Look a for a suitable rear-wheel drive platform for a next generation Chevrolet Camaro."

There is a "small sporty RWD Chevy coupe" under development.

Let me see if I get all this straight...

Your implying that by what Lutz said, we can speculate that the next Camaro will be made in Canada? Right?

Isn't the next platform which a lot of people here have agreed the next Camaro will be built on, will be built in Australia (the Zeta)??

Not exactly. Once the agreement expires, it doesn't matter where GM decides to build the next Camaro. If they want to start sooner, building it in Canada would help with negotiations between GM and the CAW. Zeta is set to be built in several locations including Australia and North America.

Everytime someone brings up the CAW contract, that dang song from "South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut" goes rambling through my head....

Blame Canada... :D

Originally posted by jg95z28
Everytime someone brings up the CAW contract, that dang song from "South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut" goes rambling through my head....

Blame Canada... :D


:D
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1118360&highlight=blame+canada#post1118360

hahahahahaha:lol:

I still say I will believe in a new Camaro when I actually see it.

Originally posted by CaminoLS6
Not exactly. Once the agreement expires, it doesn't matter where GM decides to build the next Camaro. If they want to start sooner, building it in Canada would help with negotiations between GM and the CAW. Zeta is set to be built in several locations including Australia and North America.

Can someone confirm this to the best of their ability? Last I heard was that Zeta was to be built Down Under and was to be designed here.

The way Lutz made it sound was that a Camaro wouldn't be built again unless it was in Canada. Even after the CAW expires...to keep GMs word or something...

Originally posted by Meccadeth
Can someone confirm this to the best of their ability? Last I heard was that Zeta was to be built Down Under and was to be designed here.

Me thinks you have it backwards. ;)

Designed there, built here.

Except you'd think with a comment like that you may have some loyal GM fans jumping ship to the new stang. Why not just say "we can't build it for the time being" instead of saying they are dead and hoping someone catches the hidden meaning?? The phrasing could have been better.

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Me thinks you have it backwards. ;)

Designed there, built here.

Are you sure? Can you show me a thread or resource for this?

I thought making it in Australia was the major thing that made Zeta affordable (because of their techniques)? Why would they design it in Australia?

Originally posted by Meccadeth
Are you sure? Can you show me a thread or resource for this?

I thought making it in Australia was the major thing that made Zeta affordable (because of their techniques)? Why would they design it in Australia?

because the Aussies are at the forefront right now in being able to design "sophisticated" and "cheap" RWD platforms..

If you search or go thru threads, info is everywhere.

Here's a link to one.http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=223652

Originally posted by Meccadeth
I thought making it in Australia was the major thing that made Zeta affordable (because of their techniques)? Why would they design it in Australia?

The "affordability" of Zeta comes from Holden's experience in designing their very own RWD platforms seemingly under GM's radar by doing it cost-effectively. Zeta cars would also be built in Australia of course, but those cars would be for that market. Zeta is really the "world" RWD platform Bob Lutz has been gushing about lately.

Originally posted by Meccadeth
Are you sure? Can you show me a thread or resource for this?

I thought making it in Australia was the major thing that made Zeta affordable (because of their techniques)? Why would they design it in Australia?

Here's the latest of many, many available:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/DC4AD1260871894CCA256E3E00234846


It's being made down under because:

1. They are experts at engineering RWD cars. The only arm of GM that does at the moment (outside of Team Corvette & the Cadillac Motor Division... both pretty costly).

2. They are an extremely resourceful division of GM, able to produce a wide variety of cars on a little of no money compared to GM North America.

3. They are expert at creating "modular" cars. Off one chassis, they have a long and short wheelbase sedan, a Ute (El Camino to us), and engineered an entire coupe and got to market at a lower cost than Camaro's 1998 nose job.

4. GM is dividing up their engineering resources to avoid overlaping and wasting money. Why engineer 2 separate FWD chassis here & Europe, or 3 separate RWD chassis, when one area can do it for the entire company, and each continent can design the skin & interior for their own market, saving GM $$$.

That's the quick summary of it. :)