Corvette Brake upgrade

Hey all,

Question, I was thinking about doing the corvette brake upgrade on my LT1 but I am having a hard time finding it. I've done a few searches and didn't come up with anything. Do you know of any websites that are selling a set??

And second, I already have the LS1 brake upgrade on the car but I need something a little better for road racing. Do you think the corvette upgrade is worth it or should I go for something like a Wilwood or Baer brake upgrade kit??

BTW, I road race the car about a half dozen times a year and autocross probably close to a dozen. Thanks a ton.

Dan

Email Bob Bishop at lateapex@charter.net

I just got my brackets from Bob and they look great.. just got to get around the ordering the rest of the stuff. having the LS1 spindles only means that you have to remove less material from the spindle with the sawzall than from an LT1 unit, but otherwise it's the same. getting the vette upgrade is essentially the same as having a BAER track kit, (2 piston PBR caliper, with a 12.5 inch rotor) BAER uses a 13 inch rotor. And the Wilwood kit has no dust seals making it less ideal for street use. not to mention the ZO6 upgrade runs you right around 800$ or so, a steal for what you're getting.

Thanks for the replys guys. I'll email Bob Bishop and take it from there.

Dan

I'm running the LG brackets, I did not have to remove any material from my LS1 knuckles. There are many different opinions between Bob's kit and LG's, but I went with what I could get at the time. They work great. unfortunatly I havn't had them on a road course yet. But they grab great on the autocross and street.

LG doesn't have them posted on their site either. You'll have to call them to order the kit. Not sure exactly how much the brackets are, but they sold me the whole kit (rotors, calipers, and brackets for around $600, I think). Just remember to do stainless brake lines when you get them (actually they were the best upgrade that I ever did to my stock setup).

Also keep in mind, the Z06/C5 kit is only 12.8". I'm positive you'll see better results with any 13" or bigger Baer, or Wilwood setup. I went with the C5 kit because it's a little less expensive and is all GM parts (aside from the brackets).

If you just want a budget brakes, since you already have the LS1 setup. You can just buy the brackets and rotors. I actually ran the stock LS1 calipers on the C5 rotors for months before I changed to the Z06 caliper (mainly I changed just for the color :) ).

The 2 bracket packages have their good points and their questionable ones.

Bishop's brackets are similar to many aftermarket packages in that they bolt from behind the hub. The knuckle requires some massaging for clearance purposes.

The LG bracket is similar to what Wilwood produces and is a direct bolt-on to a '98+ F-Body, with a small amount of the caliper fin being removed for clearance purposes. The brackets don't work at all on a pre '98 model.

Both kits provided a very good upgrade and use off the shelf parts. Lots of atermarket support for the C-5

So, you have to decide which bracket set is best for your specific application ...

HTH

wait do bob bishops brackets work on either LS1 knuckles and LT1 kunckles? i got his brackets a long while back but havent gotten a chance to put them on especially with the cold, i was thinking of trying to get a different set of knuckles and getting them all ready (cutting, assembling some, etc) so i could just swap the knuckles and save myself time which i dont have much of, i met a guy at a car show that did that got some knuckles from a junkyard and got all the hard stuff done ahead of time. so could i get either LS1 or LT1 knuckles and still be fine?

Yes, my brackets work equally well on LT1 and LS1 steering knuckles. A significant difference is price. My brackets have been selling for $220/set, while the other brackets mentioned have sold for $425/set. That price came from Dope, who posted on 9/16/2003 on LS1.com about his LG C5 brake brackets. The thread is available in the archives and is titled, “Caliper brackets C5 to F-Body?”. The thread was started on 9/11 by ledfoot2, and Dope replied on 9/16. He also posted pics of his LG brackets and gave his opinion of them.

Another thing to consider is that my brackets have been tested in an independent laboratory to support 22,900 lbs without failure. That is more than the weight of 6 complete F-body automobiles on one bracket.

And my brackets adapt the COMPLETE C5/ZO6 front brake system to the F-body, exactly as GM engineered the brake system to work.

My brackets are going up a bit in price, but will be available from a sponsor on this board shortly (I finally got them the pictures and text last Friday)

You can buy extra steering knuckles if you want to, but that will make the job MUCH harder and more expensive. If you simply cut off the mounting ears while the knuckles are on the car, it is easy – it is like they are in a vise, no movement. And you can position them at any angle by turning the steering wheel. If you fasten a plastic bag over the wheel bearing assembly before cutting, then you don’t even have to remove the wheel bearings. But mainly, you spare yourself having to remove and replace the steering knuckles, and then having to get a front end alignment. And the cost of the additional steering knuckles, which just MIGHT be bent if you get them at a wrecking yard.

By the way, the only modification necessary to use my adaptor brackets is cutting off the old mounting ears (tabs) from the steering knuckles.

Bob Bishop

Yes Bob's Bracket Emporium ;) will work on any vintage F-Body. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Originally posted by ronin013
i met a guy at a car show that did that got some knuckles from a junkyard and got all the hard stuff done ahead of time. so could i get either LS1 or LT1 knuckles and still be fine?

Be very careful about buying salvage knuckles. I've purchased 2 sets off of wrecked cars and both sets were bent. One car was a roll over and one was hit from the side.

After some investigation and discussion with T2 drivers, the front knuckle is not very strong. Where allwed, many race teams have gusseted the knuckles for strength.

Further, regardless of teh kit you chose, you won't save any time presaambling anything and replacing the knuckle. It's much more of a job breaking loose the upper and lower ball joints to replace the knuckle than to just cut off the existing ears with a sawzall.

actually now that i think about it i would probably save myself time and money buying a saw to cut the ears, i just wasnt too motivated to get out the hacksaw my tool box is limited. generally speaking i only have a few free hours a day before and after work that im awake and i know it would take more then 2 hours to get the car back together so i could drive it (only vehicle).

sounded like a good idea at the time but the guy that did it i think had other reasons for getting used knuckles and doing some of the work ahead of time. im just trying to find anyway to save time. i also wanted to paint the knuckles for no particular reason.

I would think a hack saw would go through the knuckle in short order. It's anot a real strong, dense metal.

But hey, I like you the way you justify new tools ... ;)

i dont just buy crap for fun unless its cheap, but i will use a stupid little excuse to buy big powertools :D had to get a mig welder to patch an exhaust leak about a month ago hahaha too bad i still suck using it. cant wait till i find something stupid to justify an air compressor like "well my back right tire was 3 PSI lower then the other one and i couldnt find the manual foot air pump, but i got a bunch of impact tools with it just in case something else happens" hehe

Originally posted by mitchntx
I would think a hack saw would go through the knuckle in short order. It's anot a real strong, dense metal.

But hey, I like you the way you justify new tools ... ;)

Man, a hacksaw to saw through both points on the spindle you need to cut? I got my sawzall from Sears for about $60 IIRC and it just went right through the knuckles. It was WELL worth the money.

Be careful though. Once you have that electric saw in your hands you start looking at other things on the car and thinking, "Do I really need that? I already have the saw out and plugged in . . . "

Originally posted by 94bird
I got my sawzall from Sears for about $60 IIRC and it just went right through the knuckles. "

In case anyone reading this is not familiar with the mod, you don’t actually cut, “through the knuckles”, you just cut off the mounting ears (tabs) for the original calipers. Here is a link to the operation on an LT1 car: http://www.projecttransam.com/projects12.asp

Bob Bishop

Originally posted by lateapex
In case anyone reading this is not familiar with the mod, you don’t actually cut, “through the knuckles”, you just cut off the mounting ears (tabs) for the original calipers.

I can just picture a guy in his garage with a puzzled look on his face after he saws his knuckles in half. WTH? :eek:

Hey Bob, what are the C5 caliper piston sizes? I can't remember and Jon asked in another thread on frrax.com .

Originally posted by 94bird
I can just picture a guy in his garage with a puzzled look on his face after he saws his knuckles in half. WTH? :eek:


Very good point, Bob.

I guess there are certain things I take for granted ... ;)

According to “Steve in Seattle”, the front C5 caliper pistons are 40mm in diameter and the front LS1 caliper pistons are 44mm in diameter.

And Steve must be correct, as his credentials include 3890 posts on this board.:bow:

Bob

Bob im ready to buy.. are theese ready to ship?? let me know

Thanks

Highlander,

They are ready; I will email you.

Bob

I replied.. THX

Its actually pretty easy to do the C5 upgrade with the knuckles on the car.

Heres some pics of mine (http://community.webshots.com/album/108708798nQHLxR)

Z~

I used 2 carbide discs and a grinder...

Originally posted by ZLT195
Its actually pretty easy to do the C5 upgrade with the knuckles on the car.

Heres some pics of mine (http://community.webshots.com/album/108708798nQHLxR)

Z~

Is that you Bob Phillips? Those are some very good pics. I love those HRE's. You are the first to post pics using the new aluminum brackets. Would you mind if I used a couple of them?

Thanks, either way,
Bob Bishop

Email sent... I will send you detailed pics of them later on bob...

Please reply to me asap!!!

nice pics ZLT195 i like seeing step by step pictures. although the install seems pretty simple, the only thing im worried about is bleeding the brakes (never done it or seen it done).

i still will feel wierd having "corvette" on part of my car...havent devised a reasonable way around that except grinding the raised letters down and having engraved plates made that fit neatly in the same spot. thats minor details though cant wait for some harder braking :cool:

I have no problem with corvette stuff.. its still stuff.. you dont see me putting corvette stickers or corvette letters like a corvette wanna be... my rims are zr1 rims "not SS rims". I bought them when they came out in 94-95 I believe when GM didn't have plans for the SS and those rims, hence it has the checkerflag of corvette....

I dont mind putting stuff in my car that has other designations as long as its not like a frustrated dream..

Always a nice thing to have corvette parts in a camaro ;) that way the camaro is going to always be a much better car IMO.

I have Bob's brackets and they are actually some of the first he ever produced.

The cutting off of the ears on the knuckles is that hard with a sawzall. I bought a cheap saw for $20 from a traveling tool sale and then bought some better blades and it did the trick in about 15 minutes per side.

The C5 upgrade is a great bang for the buck upgrade.

although more expensive an even better ban for the buck than the ls1s

I am very happy with mine (original steel brackets).

Rich Krause

I have a set of the original brackets and the new ones. All I can say is that I have been extremely pleased with both sets and that Bob is a great guy to deal with....a complete professional.

THAT I KNOW

Well, for anyone interested, my C5 brake adaptor brackets are now available through a vendor on this board, Speed Specialty: http://www.speedspecialty.com/store/view_product.php?product=c5fbodybrakes

If anyone was confused about the Highlander saying that he was ready to buy, then giving the tools he used to cut off the old caliper mounting tabs, then saying that they were a better bang for the buck than the LS1 brakes - he is a repeat customer like Metlegleo. He bought my original steel brackets back in 2002, and just bought the new aluminum version (the aluminum is 1.5 lbs lighter per bracket).

Bob Bishop

Yeah... so far i've been happy.. shaving 1.5lbs from the suspension is not a bad idea either...

I like the .600" thickness!!! Now I wonder if the bracket is stronger than the spindle ;)

I will order through the website soon :)

Bob, I really do like that redesign of your bracket.

Good job!

Originally posted by lateapex
(the aluminum is 1.5 lbs lighter per bracket).
[/B]

Damn, damn, damn. I'm very happy with my steel brackets but I think you're taunting me with a very tasty carrot (is there such a thing?). You know my enthusiasm for reducing weight and you're just picking on me aren't you? :(

My reason to buy again :D

Originally posted by mitchntx
Bob, I really do like that redesign of your bracket.

Good job!
Thank you Mitch.

Mike, you probably don't really want the aluminum version. Wait for the sequel. I might be able to shave off another 8 oz if I have them forged from titanium. Based on the cost of forged TI connecting rods, I can probably sell them for less than $1600/set. (Maybe I could get you some blems for $1200)

Bob

In reality... just 8oz vs AL?

That would be a 25% weight reduction. That is probably all I would be comfortable with. The TI alloys appropriate for forging would have around 5 times the yield strength of the 6061 aluminum alloy I use, but TI weighs 60% more per unit volume than aluminum.

yeah... but if you forged the whole steering knuckle out of titanium you could shave POUNDS off the front. :)

If you can do it for less than $500 I'm in. (although I'd wager that's about 10% of what it'd cost. :))

bob, your kit will work on a ws6 trans am right?

Originally posted by airtime
bob, your kit will work on a ws6 trans am right?

Yes, it works on all 4 gen F-bodies.

Bob

Well, I figure since tomorrow is my birthday I'll treat myself and buy the brakes. How about that?

My only concern is bleeding the brakes. Never done that before. I was looking for some places on the web with some basic directions on how to do this. You guys know of anywhere??

Thanks.

Dan

The following link provides the classic brake bleed procedure. It requires a helper. The only change I would suggest would be to use clear tubing so you can see the bubbles as the come out of the caliper. http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/brakebleed.htm

The best “one man” solution is the Mityvac. It is a hand held vacuum pump that makes the job much simpler and quicker. I bought the basic version for $25 about 6 years ago. It comes with an owners manual with pictures, and has many other uses as well. I use it to suck power steering fluid from the reservoir when it needs changing.

If your car hasn't had the brake fluid completely purged, I would suggest it. After 10 years it has a lot of moisture. A good high temp fluid like Motul 600 or 5.1, or ATE Blue is worthwhile if your car will see track time. If you use ATE Blue, just keep sucking with the Mityvac until you see blue fluid. Of course, don't let the fluid level in the master cyclinder get too low or you will suck air in upstream; very bad.

Bob

another way is to use a device that pushes the brake fluid.. iTs basically a pump that pressurises the brake res, so when you open up the bleeders, the brake fluid shoots out...

Its basically looks ilke a big canister with a pump and a psi gauge.....