ABS Delete - how to?

My ABS hasn't been working for a while and I now have a 12 bolt without ABS so I'm looking into how to remove that ABS tree from the engine.

I've done a search and there seem to be 2 suggestions - one is to disconnect and plumb the hoses into the master cyl.

The other suggestion is to go through an impala proportioning box first I'm not sure if this box different from proportioning valve sold by many aftermarket firms (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33564&item=2454488897)

Anyway, so has anyone done this successfullt on an LT1 and can you provide - suggestions and part numbers if necessary.

Thanks

TTT

I want to know how to do this as well. :D

I did it on my LT1. I tore out the old ABS unit and then used my line lock to "t" together the front two lines (after I cut and re-flared them with standard fittings) and then ran a new line to the mast cyl. Then I ran a line from the mast cyl to a wilwood adj. prop valve that i mounted where the fluid resivoir is for the clutch on manual cars. Then I ran a NEW line from the prop valve all the way back to the rear "T" line of the car. Problem is the rear fitting going into the "T" is bubble flair and a really weird size so there is no adapter i could find. Since my car is in storage I never finished it but I found a local place to remake the rear "T" by the axle except with a standard fitting pretty cheap. Next time I go up to my car I am going to install the rear line and adjust the proportioning valve to make sure everything is working right. I did drive 50 miles to store the car with no rear brakes and didn't even notice it honestly (no quick stops though).

BTW it was a royal PITA and I would never have started it if I knew it would be such a pain. The only really hard part was the rear line and re-flaring a lot of the stuff while it was in the car as well as finding all the fittings. Autozone had a pretty good selection actually. At least I feel I could re-plumb a brake system from scratch now. :D

It is 10-11#'s off the front of the car though (weighed ABS unit and bracket).. which is a LOT of weight if you think about it and it does clean up the engine bay a lot. I probably spent over $100 to do it by the time I bought everything though. :(

I have some pics but they are crappy.. you can kind of see it here in some of the pictures in my album:

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/aramhart@sbcglobal.net/album?.dir=/green+car

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202032

ttt, would like to hear some more too

What else do you want to know? When you remove the ABS it becomes exactly like all those braking systems without ABS. You have to re-plumb the lines and install a proportioning valve so the rear brakes don't lock before the fronts do. The only thing that makes it difficult is that GM uses metric fittings all over the place. The easiest way I found was to replace all the metric fittings except on the mast cyl.. there I used two adapters from metric to standard. Nothing too crazy, but you need to know how to re-flare brake lines.

Aram - thanks for the info. One more thing: how much did the prop valve cost, and do you have a part # or anything for it? Thanks.

rather than reflaring the lines and fussing with adapters can't we use high pressure compression fittings combined with a little pipe bending?

I would not recommend using compression fittings on a braking system and I doubt anyone else would recommend them either (call any brake parts manufacturer).

There is over 1000psi that the lines have to withstand, and even though compression fittings can withstand much more pressure than a braking system needs, they need to be installed correctly in order to work right (I used to work as a lab tech and we used compression fittings for everything) and you also need to use a very high quality brand fitting and line (ie swaglok). I would just go through the hassle of re-flaring the lines for your own piece of mind. Compression fittings _will_ work though, but I wouldn't really trust them. I actually replaced my entire rear line because the previous owner (idiot) of my car decided to use a compression fitting on it for some dumb reason.

The prop. valve I got is the universal wilwood one available in summit and I think it was around $40. I am sure pretty much any adjustable universal valve would work.

okay im gonna go ahead and do this abs delete this weekend. Ive done a lot of research and im ready to take this thing off and have the weight reduction and the added room up front. The only thing im concerned about is the bleeding of the brakes. Ive done everything on this car but bleed brakes did anyone have any problems at all and can you kinda point out the way you did it.

thanks

Don't cut the long hard line that runs under the car to the rear "T". With the brake flaring tool I had I could not flare that tube.. just too hard of material I guess. Might be possible with a really good flaring tool though. I had to replace that whole line, which is what took the most of the time. See if you can find an adapter from that fitting to go into the outlet of the proportioning valve and you will spend half as much time on removing the abs.

okay im a little lost again. I have so many damn lines runing off my abs i dont know what the front and back are man. I have 2 lines running off the master to the middle of the abs and then runing out of the top then I have 3 lines running into the bottom of the abs. man what lines are what. do you have a step by step photo of what comes off of what and what goes where. Im gonna retry this tommorrow. again

Mike

Lines from the master
the 2 lines out of the master are for front and rear
the line from the master closest to the firewall is the front and the other is th rear


lines from below:
the 3 lines coming up from the bottom of the engine bay into the ABS are comprised of 2 lines for the front brakes and 1 for the rear - 2 for the front should be the same diameter and one for the rear has a larger diameter.

you need to tee the 2 front lines and connect to the rear opening (closest to the firewall) on the master.
the line from the rear needs a proportioningvalve and a is to be connected to the other opening on the master.

Aram - as he explainds below - used his line loc to tee the 2 front brake lines. he then constructed a line from the line loc to the master. For the rear brakes he went from the rear of the car all the way to the master but suggests that you avoid that by getting a proper fitting for the prop valve.

that's my understanding
Hope that helps.

I have question: Could you just run the front to brake lines to the master cylinder via the two opening in the master cylinder and forget the rear.

I have question: Could you just run the front to brake lines to the master cylinder via the two opening in the master cylinder and forget the rear.

only if you want to eliminate your rear brakes and compromise your front brakes.

Not a good idea

I realize this might not be the best as far as braking performance but will this set up make one tire brake more or less than the other??

http://www.mycamaroz28.homestead.com/

3rd of the way down.

thanks for the link but I really am considering dropping hte rear brakes on the car they do very little in forward stopping. I will retain the e-brake just in case but I Would like to take the two lines one for the left front and the other for the right front and put the lines directly on the master cylinder. My only question here is: will one wheel stop quicker thatn the other?

Yes one wheel will have more line pressure resulting in a prioritized stopping. You could adjust that with a prop valve.

Oh and that link wasnt for you. It was the actual thread starter, not the thread hijacker.

You'll have to leave your calipers on if you want to retain the ebrake btw. Unless you're 98+

thanks Bawls that is what I needed to know. I do have another question though if I used one of the master cylenders outlets and split that off similar to what many non ABS cars do to both wheel. ( the rear wheel brakes do this) and plug the other line in the master Cylinder. would I get the same result or would I be okay.

you could do that too, it would then apply all the pressure to the open port. Good luck.

I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel.

Your rear brakes do play a part in your stopping ability. Especially if your running skinny tires in the front. The front skinny tire if beneficial from a weight reduction as well as less rotational frictional forces...great for acceleration, but not as good obviously for stopping. Your rears will play a larger part in your stopping due to this.

I like the way SJM Manufacturing ABS delete kit from the link shown above has a kit ready to go, the base kit seems very reasonable considering purchasing all the parts it includes. Hell a line lock and proportioning valve costs quite a bit in comparison.

You would think you'll save alot doing it yourself, add the time going back and forth to the parts store, ordering and paying for shipping for a variety of parts, don't really add up to much of a saving.

I read about folks using compression fittings, these are NOT used on fluid braking systems, they are generally used in the air brake industry. Fluid controlled systems primarily use double flare or on newer setups bubble flare.

Completely understand your point on this. I don't believe that I will ever go to skinnys on the front but you are right I would definatly need them the rear brakes for this. I am also trying to remove a line going to the back for my true duals. I also will for sure keep my e-brake. I am actually finding that I am using my e-brake on my other two vehs i have for taking corners and such. This is not a dailey driver Z28 and it may go to the track once or twice. I am doing everything for weight reduction and performance. Oblivously I do not want to skip out on safty but if I can accomplish a simplified safe brake system with the fewest amout of $$$ I will do it.

Your brake handling characteristics are going to be waaay off. Your going to be loosing ~30% of your braking capabilities.

Your car will also nose dive quite a bit on hard stops AND while braking on hard turns you may loose steering ability if your brakes lock.

Using your rear e-brake on those situations will NOT work as your going to apply them incorrectly, locking your rear and then putting your car into a spin (a doughnut) like I used to do when I was 16 in parking lots with my parents car...lol. I could not see one going 50mph around a turn, applying their brakes, needing more then adding the e-brake to help stop...I certainly wouldn't want to be a passenger nor the driver.

The stock brakes on an LT1 aren't known to be very good as it is, your handicaping yourself as well as creating an unsafe situation.

I really don't feel that saving yourself a few dollars is worth the hassle. Respectfully, it's your car, do what you feel is best for you.

If your looking to save weight, remove the e-brake I suppose, your not saving that much by removing a few lines. Save weight and money on other less important modifications.

It is not necessary to remove any brake lines to use run true duals.

Good luck

I believe after all this research that I will be better off keeping the stock ABS. As far as Brawl's comment about me hijacking a thread...May be you need to look at the dates this thread died and the date I posted a reply. JG94Z you have been most helpful. thanks

I believe after all this research that I will be better off keeping the stock ABS. As far as Brawl's comment about me hijacking a thread...May be you need to look at the dates this thread died and the date I posted a reply. JG94Z you have been most helpful. thanks


:D It's Bawls.