Problems with my 95Z @ a de this weekend.

I went to Putnam park road course this weekend with my almost stock 95z28. The only mods I’ve done to the car are hawk hp+ pads and ate 200 fluid. My problems started Saturday afternoon on my 2nd of 6 session (30 min each). My brakes were getting really mushy and I had to put my foot to the floor or pump them in a lot in most of the turns. I flushed 1L of fluid 2 days before the event and I couldn’t believe that I could cook them so fast. So, I then decided after my 3rd session I would bleed my brakes again thinking that maybe I didn’t do a good job bleeding then the first time. Then on Sunday during the end of the first session the same problems was occurring. I would like to know what I can do to make my brakes last the weekend (6 X 30min sessions) w/o having to bleed them repeatedly or spend mad $$ on some big brakes. I know racing cost money, but I would like to as much money as possible on de’s and not on parts.
Also throughout the weekend I had problems with the power steering. On Saturday the reservoir was getting really hot and when I opened the cap steam came pouring out of the reservoir. I kept trying to get the ps to cool down by driving it around for 15 minutes and then letting it idle for another couple of minutes before turning the motor off. Then on Sunday during the end of my 2nd session my steering started to get pretty stiff during the exit of turn 8 (180 degree sweeper). I thought it was bc it was starting to boil and would return to normal after letting the car cool down. I was wrong! The steering is still pretty stiff at slow speeds even after driving 150 miles home tonight. I wondered if I blew the pump or what actually needs to be fixed on the car. Also what do I need to do so that it won’t happen again the next time I go to the track? I’ve read a couple posts about people putting ps coolers to keep the temps low, but I would like to try and avoid that route if I can. Also some people claim that under drive pulleys don’t work either. Any input would be appreciated.

First of all, I would get some ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid-boiling point of 500+ degrees. Bleed the brakes with a vacuum bleeder. Drain your PS resivoir and fill with Mobil 1 synthetic PS fluid. Get the ATE fluid from www.thelapd.com. (http://www.thelapd.com.) Mobil 1 from any auto shop. Do you have stainless brake lines? Earls makes a nice line. Helps pedal feel.

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90 IROC,394 ci,vortech,Tremec TKO,9",NX 150 HP shot (just in case),Hotchkis,Spohn,roll bar,etc
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that is the fluid i have. Ive used a vacuum bleeder in the past and i found that just having somebody pump the pedal seems to work better. No, i dont have ss lines. About the pump i want to find out if its toasted bf i waste time and money putting stuff in that i will have to drain out later. ty

Welcome to the world of lousy brakes!

First, duct some air to your brakes.

Then use more aggressive pads (Hawk Blues, PF 90's or 93's).

The more you do this and the faster you get, the more you'll realize even the above isn't enough.

Next, upgrade brakes. The best "bang for the buck" upgrades are the LS1 upgrade, the C5 upgrade and the LG Motorsports G-Stop brakes. Not very expensive and a large improvement.

But if you become a real track junky, add a bunch of power, etc, you'll eventually wish for more. Then the old "you get what you pay for" saying comes true. The Mov'it, Brembo, Baer/Alcon, and Stoptech kit (when available) are what's needed to give you decent reliablility and longevity.

You can't get something for nothing.

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96 Z28 M6 (http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Z28.html)
13.59 @ 102.96 (http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Timeslips.html#2)
MODS (http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Mods.html)

LT1 brakes suck ass. Always have, always will. Get yourself some LS1 brakes or LG G-stop brakes. You'll probably pay the cost of a couple of DE events, but remember, this is a SAFETY ISSUE. When you're trying to learn to drive fast on track, you absolutely, positively do not want to be wondering whether your brakes will work at the next corner. And what if they don't? You'll end up with a lot of twisted metal (or worse), and wish you'd spent the $500 on better brakes.

The LS1 setup, with stainless lines, cooling ducts and good pads will be fine while you get your feet wet. The HP+ pads are probably fine starting out, and because they're a dual purpose pad you don't have to swap them after events. I'd stick with them for the time being. You're also using the right fluid- the Typ 200 is just the gold-colored version of SuperBlue.

Now, on to the power steering. You may have fried your pump- I'm not sure. If so, replace it, and at the same time do this:

http://www.ws6.com/pscool.htm

... and get yourself some synthetic power steering fluid. This cooler is cheap, easy, and you can quit worrying about your power steering. It did wonders on mine- never boils over anymore, and hardly even whines. Don't try to "avoid this route," especially because it's so easy. If your engine were overheating and blowing head gaskets, would you "avoid the route" of getting a better radiator? Doubtful. Just do the cooler. It's way easy.

Good luck!


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Pat Newton
'97 Formula - unstock
'85 BMW 524 turbodiesel - stock and stinky
'90 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata race car "in progress"
http://home.attbi.com/~patricknewton/f-body/formula.htm

[This message has been edited by Pat Newton (edited June 17, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Pat Newton (edited June 17, 2002).]

You might double check you rear pads also. The only time my LT1 brakes have faded was when the rear pads were about to let go and did fall apart.

As for your pump, If you don't have underdrive pullies, I would recommend them. They seem to help out on the pump and change the fluid before each event.

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96 Z28 M6-Lots of bolt ons!

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I havent checked my rear pads yet, but they have about 5k street miles and 2 de (6hrs) of track time. So i doubt they are worn out yet, but it could be possible. I only plan on doing around 5 or so de per year and have no intensions of keeping the car for racing or serious track use. I would like to keep cost to a min. I still want to have a good time and not worry about if im going to be able to slow down the boat in time to make the turn.

What do u guys think i should run:
1. stock lt1, ss lines, cooling ducts. $
2. ls1 brake upgrade, ss lines, cooling ducts. $$
3. c5 brake kit, ss lines, 17" wheels. $$$

How can i tell if the pump/rack/or fluid is shot bc it seems fine as long as im not going below 10mph or trying to turn really hard. Also the pump doesn't seem to make any noises.



[This message has been edited by odium (edited June 18, 2002).]

Also... Check your belt and make sure no fluid is getting on it or that it is slipping.

I once had a problem with my power steering not working correctly at slow speeds. It was real jerky when it worked and at times wouldn't work at allm, but worked fine at speed.

It turned out to be the belt slipping and it never made a noise like a slipping belt.

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96 Z28 M6-Lots of bolt ons!

Smitty's Speed Shop (http://www.neto.com/speedshop)
My 1996 Z-28 (http://www.neto.com/speedshop/james.htm)

Road Racing Pics (http://smittysspeedshop.cz28.com/msr.htm)

People do burn out the power steering pumps in these cars, the fluid gets hot in spirited driving, thats just how it is.

I have heard of using motor oil instead, as well as coolers being setup.

I plan on putting on a set of pulleys, ps cooler, and synthetic fluid. I just want to find out first if the pump is shot bf i replace the other items. I dont want to just go and buy a new one and it still turn the same. Those kind of things really piss me off. I dont have a factory service manual for this car to findout what the correct steps are on checking it. Also, what do u guys think about the brake upgrades? ty

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by odium:
What do u guys think i should run:
1. stock lt1, ss lines, cooling ducts. $
2. ls1 brake upgrade, ss lines, cooling ducts. $$
3. c5 brake kit, ss lines, 17" wheels. $$$
</font>

Based on what you said about your needs, I would suggest option 2.




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Pat Newton
'97 Formula - unstock
'85 BMW 524 turbodiesel - stock and stinky
'90 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata race car "in progress"
http://home.attbi.com/~patricknewton/f-body/formula.htm

I would also suggest option 2 for the brakes. I'm doing the C5 upgrade, but I already have some 17" wheels and I'm getting some C5 takeoff brake parts from a local Vette club member. If this deal hadn't come along I would have done the LS1 brakes and upgraded to the G2 rotors and caliper bracket later.

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Mike Taylor
'94 Formula
Holley cold air, Borla downpipe, Walker UltraFlo catback, BMR STB, BMR PHR, Ground Control coilovers, Bilsteins, 16x9.5 Rikens, Hoosier 275/45/16 A3S03, G2 Torque Arm, Torsen T2R