Converting auto to 6spd

I used to have a 6spd 00' SS and LOVED IT TO DEATH it was so much fun. Unfortunately, it was wrecked because morons don't know how to drive.

Anyway, my insurance cleared my last loan and now I'm shopping for a new Camaro. Another unfrotunate evenet as a result of my wrecked car is that most of the Camaro's on the market are automatic. I'm afraid, after driving a 6spd for almost a year, I CANNOT go back to automatic.

So here are my question(s):

1) Is it very difficult (in other words, not worth the time) to convert an automatic into a 6spd?

2) Has anyone here done it?

3) As far as adding the 3rd pedal is concerned, how would you go about doing that?

4) And this is considering I get an automatic, would there be anyone who would be willing to switch tranny's straight up? Meaning drive type for drive type. If I'm not mistaken, auto tranny set ups are worth more than 6spd so you'd be winning.

Thanks for the info guys and let me know about that auto tranny being worth more... That is completely hearsay so I don't know how concrete it is.

-Matt

Don't do it. For a LT1 I'd say go for it since they have a nifty conversion kit available. But for an LS1 it's a pain in the butt hunting down all the parts you need.

As for swapping tranny with a M6 guy that wants an A4 that also has been done before. It's actually the best way to do it since all the parts you both need are right there. But here is your problem. Most M6's guys that want to switch to an A4 are looking for one with a high stall torque converter. Usually these are guys who get tired of losing to all the stalled autos at the track. So they only want to swap with auto guys that have a good torque converter so they save themselves the time and expense of getting one after the swap.

Since you don't have a car yet this is a no brainer. Don't buy an auto if you want a manual. Carmax delivers cars. Dealerships get new trade-ins every week. People decide to sell thier car at any givin point and time. It probably would not take as long as you think to find another SS M6 if you just exercise a little patience and keep your eyes open.

A4 to M6 is a big job and some people who did it had computer issues after. It's not worth even considering IMHO. Just hold out for a M6 and you'll save yourself the expense and headache of switching.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

what he said. not worth it.:no:

Yup. If you absolutely need to have M6, definetely wait for the M6 to come up. :alert:

Since there is no price difference between the M6 and A4 cars, you'd actually be throwing money away. Unless you find somebody wanting to do the swap, which I doubt too many are anyway...

Good luck with your hunt! :thumb:

TS

BS. All you guys saying dont do it, its not worth it havent done it. I have helped with five A4 to M6 swaps and its very easy actualy. Usually takes about 8 hours from astart to finish with use of a lift. The pedals just unbolt from the firewal, and you install the new brake and cluth pedal in reverse of removal of the old brake pedal. The firewall is already dimpled for the master cylinder, soyou know exaclty where to drill. The hardest part is re-pining the harness for the M6. Even that is fairly simple. So far I have spent 1.5K, and i have a rebuilt tranny(much stronger than stock), shifter, knob, pedals, clutch, preasure plate, flywheel and console. All i need is the hydraulics, and computer to complete it, and im saving for those right now. I say do it. Its not nearly as bas as some people think it is. Just give yourself a little bit of time to aquire parts, shop around for better deals, I did. I bought my tranny, clutch, flywheel, preasure plate for 6hun, and all it needed was a rebuild which i got for 700 with new bearings, synchros and steel shift forks. Buy an A4 if thats all you can find, drive it around for a bit, and then if you still want the 6 speed swap it out. You might actually like the A4, launching is so easy to do, but rowing through the gears on the freeway is more important to me, im not a stoplight warrior.

Originally posted by darrens99formul
A4 to M6 is a big job and some people who did it had computer issues after. It's not worth even considering IMHO.

Thats because 99.9% of the people that do the swap dont swap computers, or have a manual program imaged on their computer. They just use the stock A4 computer thinking it will work, and while yes the car will run, it will give you headaches unless you have a manual program imaged on the car.

Originally posted by Aklaim
So far I have spent 1.5K, and i have a rebuilt tranny(much stronger than stock), shifter, knob, pedals, clutch, preasure plate, flywheel and console. All i need is the hydraulics, and computer to complete it, and im saving for those right now.
...
I bought my tranny, clutch, flywheel, preasure plate for 6hun, and all it needed was a rebuild which i got for 700 with new bearings, synchros and steel shift forks.

Yeah, I haven't done it. Don't plan to, either. ;)

It's definetely good the hear the story from someone who has done it, too, though.

So, you have $1.5K invested now and you are still looking for parts. How much more are those going to run you? $400? $600? More? Less?

After all is said and done, you have $2K +/- some and several hours of work spent on it. For you it might be worth the hassle and cost, but not necessarily for everyone. Especially if you have to pay for the labor.

Factory M6 cars are out there. ;)

TS

True, Factory 6 speed cars are out there, but they are few and far between. So yeah, I have spent 1.5K on the swap so far, and i have a tranny that is way stronger than stock, a much improved shifter, and almost everything else I need to complete the swap. And when I am done, I will sell my auto tranny, the pedals, the shifter, and anything else needed for somebody to do a A4 swap, and ill re-coup some of the money i spent on my swap. I certainly wont make it all back, but a little bit helps. Finding a 6 speed car is hard, especially one that is in good shape. Finding autos are easy, they are everywhere.

Originally posted by Aklaim
BS. All you guys saying dont do it, its not worth it havent done it. I have helped with five A4 to M6 swaps and its very easy actualy. Usually takes about 8 hours from astart to finish with use of a lift.


It's not how hard the work is, It's how difficult all the parts are to get IF you don't have a car swapping with you. I never did the conversion but I did consider it for awhile. So I did searches, started a few threads and talked to a few people. After all that research I discovered a few things.

1). It's expensive and difficult to get all the right parts if you don't have a doner car waiting to swap with you. It's real expensive if you can't do the work yourself and have to pay to have it done. Not everyone is capable of such a job in thier garage or driveway.

2). It's much easier and less expensive if your swapping tranny's with a M6 guy that wants an A4. I all ready discused in my first post that the problem he might run into is finding a M6 guy that is willing to swap with a 4L60E that has a stock torque converter. However I did hear from a few guys in my research that said they had some issues with it throwing codes even though the computers were swapped. Most however did not have issues but the possibility is there from what I was told.

3). Most that chimed in on my threads that did it said it's not worth it. Most actually said they were happy with the end result but if they could do it again they would sell the A4 and buy a M6 straight up.

4). Automatics with high stall aftermarket torque converters are faster then the M6's, easier on the stock rear ends and are far more consistant. This was what actually made me decide to keep my A4 the way it is. I plan to get my TC soon and take advantage of that technology to get some hopefully impressive ET's.

It makes no sense for this guy to take on this project if he is still car shopping. My advice is look for a M6 and use the money saved for mods. Or at the very least find a M6 doner first and then buy the A4 car. When I was car hunting it seemed to me that for every five autos I found one manual. They are a minority but they are out there.

Just get a M6 to start with and you can spend the money saved on mods and the time saved driving your car.

Good Luck on your car hunt and good luck with the swap if you go that way.

Well I disagree with the point about trying to aquire all the parts needed. Itsts not hard at all. I have found everything ive needed on the computer or through friends. I only started buying stuff 2 weeks ago, and im 90% done. And also, a high stall converter car, is just as hard if not worse on a rear end than a manual tranny car is. I do agree though, that if you are still car shopping, try and find a M6 car. They are hard to find, but they do exist. If you find a really sweet deal on a A4, consider that too. Myabe driving around with an automatic isnt half bad. I love mine during traffic, but when i want to partake in some "spirited driving", i miss not being able to row through the gears. I only get to the track 2-3 times a year so having consitent launches really doesnt mean anything to me.

Originally posted by Aklaim
Well I disagree with the point about trying to aquire all the parts needed. Itsts not hard at all. I have found everything ive needed on the computer or through friends. I only started buying stuff 2 weeks ago, and im 90% done. And also, a high stall converter car, is just as hard if not worse on a rear end than a manual tranny car is. I do agree though, that if you are still car shopping, try and find a M6 car. They are hard to find, but they do exist. If you find a really sweet deal on a A4, consider that too. Myabe driving around with an automatic isnt half bad. I love mine during traffic, but when i want to partake in some "spirited driving", i miss not being able to row through the gears. I only get to the track 2-3 times a year so having consitent launches really doesnt mean anything to me.


As far as getting the parts (without swap car) that is subjective. What might be easy for one can be difficult for another. Some of the parts needed can not be purchased new at performance shops or tranny shops which means searching ebay, junkyards and any store that might deal with used parts. It would be cool if someone sold a LS1 swap kit like they do the LT1 but unfortunately they don't. At least not yet.

Now a high stall torque converter in an A4 is no where near as hard on a rear end as a M6 is. I have seen and heard numerous A4's running 3500+ stalls well into the 11's on a stock 10 bolt. But once a M6 starts hitting 12's on slicks they are at serious risk of the 10 bolt going "boom" and a 12 bolt being needed to replace it. Of course autos need a 12 bolt eventually too but no where near as soon as a manual does. Autos are best for drag racing and heavy traffic commutes. M6's are best for pleasure driving, road course racing and long trips due to better MPG.

I agree rowing through gears is fun. That's why I researched going to a M6 myself once. But after seeing all the expense involved, parts searching involved and the disadvantages at the drag strip I decided to keep the auto and stall it. I wish you luck in completing your swap. It sounds like your gonna have more fun with the M6 since drag racing isn't your thing. But for the guy who started the thread it's much easier just finding and buying an M6 in the first place.

took me a day and a half to finish my swap.. I honestly thought the headers where more of a PITA than the tranny swap..

just buy an M6 and be done with it. tell me your location and come hell or high water i'll find ya one :thumb:

I'm going to be doing the swap in my 95 Z28. My swap kit just shipped out yesterday and should be here next week. The kit cost $1,800 and it's complete with all parts needed except for a few wiriing harness pigtails that I'll need. Here (http://www.afrashteh.com/tranny_pics/T56.htm) is a nice writeup on the parts needed and the actual conversion process. I was apprehensive at first, but my A4 is dying and I dont want another so, I'm just applying the rebuild cost + the sale of my Yank TC to the swap cost. I'm sure I'll be gald I did it in the end.

-Tony

At least on an LT1, the swap wasn't too bad. Ebay is your friend. So is Jason Cromer, GMPartsDirect and other parts departments at dealerships that offer a discount. In the end I think it ran me juuust over $2000, but that was with a brand new Street Twin that I got for a steal.

You will need to get your PCM flashed to an M6 program. You do NOT need to change wiring harnesses (at least not on an LT1 car). All you need to do is some extremely simple splicing of the wires that plugged into your A4 shifter.

Was it worth it? Hell yes. If you have done a cam swap, you can do a T56 conversion.

Good luck :)

All you naysayers, have ANY of you guys actually done this before? For anyone needing a kit to do it, you shouldn't be allowed to work on your car at all. I had next to no mechanical experience before I did mine, and it is NOT hard to do. There are actually very few parts you need, and 99% can be had at the dealer if not a junkyard. Your big parts are transmission, bellhousing, pedals, clutch/flywheel, and crossmember. I got a hell of a deal on a trans on mine (400), but I still had to get everything else. Most likely you will want to use a new clutch, so no big deal there. Usually when you buy a trans the bellhousing comes with it, so that's covered. Not 100% positive on the hydraulics, but they can't be much more than the LT1 crap, and the dealer has em for less than $100. Crossmember is $30. Junkyards have pedals for about $50. Check with car-part.com and you can either find a junkyard that has everything you need for a deal, or they will have a conversion "kit", with everything.
As far as the ecu goes, maybe the LS1 is different, but I didn't have a lick of trouble running mine with the A4 computer. Hell, I didn't flash it to a M6 ecu for over a year. Wiring - you only HAVE to jumper 2 wires for clutch switch so it will start. You might get a TCC code, but big deal. Also, whoever said that it's too hard to do in the driveway, do you plan on doing a clutch ever? If you can do that, you can do this. I'm 6'3" 350lbs and I did the pedals on mine, its not that hard.
For what its worth - I had to buy bolts for pretty much everything for mine from the dealer, and I still got out for less than $1000. Beats the hell out of the $1800 I spent on rebuilding that pos 4L60E.

Originally posted by brain
All you naysayers, have ANY of you guys actually done this before? For anyone needing a kit to do it, you shouldn't be allowed to work on your car at all. I had next to no mechanical experience before I did mine, and it is NOT hard to do. There are actually very few parts you need, and 99% can be had at the dealer if not a junkyard. Your big parts are transmission, bellhousing, pedals, clutch/flywheel, and crossmember. I got a hell of a deal on a trans on mine (400), but I still had to get everything else. Most likely you will want to use a new clutch, so no big deal there. Usually when you buy a trans the bellhousing comes with it, so that's covered. Not 100% positive on the hydraulics, but they can't be much more than the LT1 crap, and the dealer has em for less than $100. Crossmember is $30. Junkyards have pedals for about $50. Check with car-part.com and you can either find a junkyard that has everything you need for a deal, or they will have a conversion "kit", with everything.
As far as the ecu goes, maybe the LS1 is different, but I didn't have a lick of trouble running mine with the A4 computer. Hell, I didn't flash it to a M6 ecu for over a year. Wiring - you only HAVE to jumper 2 wires for clutch switch so it will start. You might get a TCC code, but big deal. Also, whoever said that it's too hard to do in the driveway, do you plan on doing a clutch ever? If you can do that, you can do this. I'm 6'3" 350lbs and I did the pedals on mine, its not that hard.
For what its worth - I had to buy bolts for pretty much everything for mine from the dealer, and I still got out for less than $1000. Beats the hell out of the $1800 I spent on rebuilding that pos 4L60E.

Who are you to tell anyone they should or should not be allowed to work on thier cars?

Have you done the conversion to a LS1?

Are you seriously suggesting it's better to buy a A4 car and convert it to M6 then buying a M6 in the first place?

If you feel that its too hard without having all the parts come in a nice little box, that's a problem. The "kits" for the LT1 are nothing more than all the parts you need, taken from a donor car. Most junkyards want to sell everything together instead of being stuck with the leftover stuff, so finding an LS1 swap "kit" shouldn't be that hard, I'm only saying that it really isn't that difficult to pick up a phone and push 10 digits to get any parts you might not have.

A lot of times its not cost effective to find a six speed thats reasonably priced, or sell your auto car and buy a stick. What if the auto goes out, and you're upside down on a loan? Then you either have to fix the A4 to trade it in, or lose a LOT more trading it in. It would be FAR cheaper to do a swap.

While I haven't done it to an LS1, I would rather have, as the LT1 had fewer M6 models to my knowledge, making parts sources more difficult and the hydraulics on an LT1 stink compared to the LS1.

True the tranny could go out on an auto but what about those m6 cars that go to the track and have the rear go boom. Those aint so cheap either.

Originally posted by brain
If you feel that its too hard without having all the parts come in a nice little box, that's a problem. The "kits" for the LT1 are nothing more than all the parts you need, taken from a donor car. Most junkyards want to sell everything together instead of being stuck with the leftover stuff, so finding an LS1 swap "kit" shouldn't be that hard, I'm only saying that it really isn't that difficult to pick up a phone and push 10 digits to get any parts you might not have.

A lot of times its not cost effective to find a six speed thats reasonably priced, or sell your auto car and buy a stick. What if the auto goes out, and you're upside down on a loan? Then you either have to fix the A4 to trade it in, or lose a LOT more trading it in. It would be FAR cheaper to do a swap.

While I haven't done it to an LS1, I would rather have, as the LT1 had fewer M6 models to my knowledge, making parts sources more difficult and the hydraulics on an LT1 stink compared to the LS1.

Here are my points. First of all you shouldn't tell ANYONE what they can or can not do to thier own cars. Changing a transmission along with wiring, center console and all the other little stuff involved is not as easy as say swapping out a starter or alternator. It needs two people (I hear the transmission is very heavy), some experience would be very helpful, the right tools and all the required parts.

Second point. While you can find all the parts at a junkyard there is no guarantee they will be at the first one you call. Think about it. Your looking for a totaled 98 LS1 in a junkyard where the transmissions and other required parts are all working and usable. While this certainly is not mission impossible it may require a few more then ten digits being pushed to find it.

Third point. What is wrong with all the parts coming in one box anyway? That sounds good to me. So does that make every LT1 owner that bought the $1800 dollar conversion kit a loser? Perhaps all of those people who bought the LT1 kits should be told they had no business working on thier cars? I think not. If you have something that neat and easy available to you then it's certainly not a bad idea to take advantage of it.

Fourth point. It is VERY cost effective to buy a M6 LS1 vs. a A4 and converting it when you don't have a car yet. You know like the guy who started this thread looking for advice. If you have an A4 car all ready and owe more then it's worth for a trade-in/sale then by all means consider the swap. It'll cost over 2K and take some parts hunting and possibly help to install but would be worth it if your sure you wouldn't be happy with a Torque Converter. But for someone who does not yet have a LS1 car yet, it makes no sense to look for an A4 just to swap it out later. Get the M6 in the first place and you save yourself all the hassle and expense of a conversion.

Fifth point. Since you havn't done the conversion on a LS1 then you don't know if it's harder, easier or the same as a LT1 swap. I myself havn't done it either but I talked to people who have and the LS1 conversion is a little more difficult from what I'm told by people who did it. Not impossible mind you. It certainly can and has been done within 15 hours with the right tools and knowledge. But again why go through all that if you don't have a car yet?
It's not likely he's gonna find two cars of the same year, condidtion and mileage with 3k+ difference in price to justify buying the A4 and swapping it. Possible? sure. Likely? No. And remember if he's looking at dealerships he can finance all the M6 cars cost. If he buys an A4 then better get the checkbook out because the swap will cost you cash. That too is something to consider if you don't have a big savings account or access to a low interest loan.

The only way I can see this being a good idea for someone who is still car shopping is if he finds a A4 for such a whopping low price that he can't pass it up. Like maybe he finds a 2000 SS for 13K in good shape with 35K miles. That car for that price would be unpassable and the conversion is certainly in order. But if no exceptionally great deals can be found (I didn't find any when I was LS1 shopping) then get what you want the first time. Then take the 2.5K your not spending in a conversion and use it for headers, new shifter, airlid, catback, well you get the idea.

Geez Toolio, you don't give up when something was too hard for you, do you.


First point - 2 people required for swap? Yeah, same as what it would be if you put a clutch in your M6 equipped car in the first place. Wiring - its ONE wire to make the car run. It makes the car think its in neutral so it will crank. It will run then. You don't HAVE to swap computers, as I said, you might get a code, but not necessary.

Second Point - Damn the bad luck and have to call more than 1 junkyard. Hell, he might have to call more than 1 dealer to find a car. Also, if you only found the transmission at a junkyard, you can call one place to get the rest of the stuff - the dealer; and it won't be that much more expensive.

Third Point - Everything in a kit? Yeah, its nice, but not necessary. God forbid you should have to do some shopping. Then again, you must run across deal after deal of M6 cars where you are at.

Fourth Point - While I haven't done it on an LS1 car, I HAVE done it on an LT1 car. YOU have done NEITHER. Your research and conclusions are flawed in the sense that you listened to people like you about doing it. So you pussed out, don't talk someone else into thinking its a nightmare to do, cause its not.

Last - He said he doesn't think he could drive an auto again. Maybe he could, but doesn't know it yet. He might love the auto once he goes back. I agree though, look for the M6 first. But if the market is like it is here, very few and they all think they are worth their weight in gold (LT1s average 8500), then that might not be a viable option.

Looks like your points aren't points at all.

or you can come to IL where the M6 is a dime a dozen. there were 3 M6's and one A4 at the dealership i got the ws6 from (which is an M6)

spend the money no mods not a tranny swap

3k to get something you don't want and make it what you wantor 0k to get what you want from the factory...... choice is up to you

arguement OVER

It really is a nobrainer if you dont already have a f-body. Find a M6 and save yourself the money & hassle of a swap.

So can we end this pi$$ing match, its getting old.

Originally posted by Mystic95Z
It really is a nobrainer if you dont already have a f-body. Find a M6 and save yourself the money & hassle of a swap.

So can we end this pi$$ing match, its getting old.

AMEN

Originally posted by brain
Geez Toolio, you don't give up when something was too hard for you, do you.


First point - 2 people required for swap? Yeah, same as what it would be if you put a clutch in your M6 equipped car in the first place. Wiring - its ONE wire to make the car run. It makes the car think its in neutral so it will crank. It will run then. You don't HAVE to swap computers, as I said, you might get a code, but not necessary.

Second Point - Damn the bad luck and have to call more than 1 junkyard. Hell, he might have to call more than 1 dealer to find a car. Also, if you only found the transmission at a junkyard, you can call one place to get the rest of the stuff - the dealer; and it won't be that much more expensive.

Third Point - Everything in a kit? Yeah, its nice, but not necessary. God forbid you should have to do some shopping. Then again, you must run across deal after deal of M6 cars where you are at.

Fourth Point - While I haven't done it on an LS1 car, I HAVE done it on an LT1 car. YOU have done NEITHER. Your research and conclusions are flawed in the sense that you listened to people like you about doing it. So you pussed out, don't talk someone else into thinking its a nightmare to do, cause its not.

Last - He said he doesn't think he could drive an auto again. Maybe he could, but doesn't know it yet. He might love the auto once he goes back. I agree though, look for the M6 first. But if the market is like it is here, very few and they all think they are worth their weight in gold (LT1s average 8500), then that might not be a viable option.

Looks like your points aren't points at all.

Rebuttal one. Two people may be needed because I was told the 4L60E weighs 150 pounds or something like that. Not an easy thing to pull off by yourself when your under the car and on your back. The guys who replied to my threads that actually did the swap claimed to have had to swap wiring harness and computers. Again it might be diffferent from LT1 to LS1 even though you don't want to believe it.

Rebuttal two. At least now you admit it may take more then dialing 10 digits to get all the parts. Since that was all my point was I will consider that point accepted on your part.

Rebuttal three. Actually there are quite a few M6's around here. I would say at least a dozen could be looked between Carmax (they have a great deliver to you from other state policy)and the local dealerships whithin a 50 mile radius of my house. Since you did admit it is "nice" to have a kit then I can consider the other part of that point taken on your part as well.

Rebuttal four. You assume that because it's easy on a LT1 (or at least by your perception) that it's the same on a LS1. We all know what assume spells out so I'll spare you the diagram. Now you admit you never did the swap on a ls1 and I freely admited I never did it on either. But my research was not flawed. So many cool people added pretty much the same input so I wanted to pass my research results onto another. Certainly nothing wrong with that. I never said it was a nightmare. It was told to me several times that it wasn't that hard for people who know what they are doing. I also heard it could be done over one weekend. Not a nightmare but it's not like replaceing a starter so don't understate it either. Actually all the great info made me decide I wanted my auto. Since Torque Converters allow us to consistantly beat the otherwise equally modded M6's at the track I decided to go that route instead. I decided for my own needs it would be better to be a "P**sy" showing a M6 my taillights then a "real sports car driver" reading a stalled A4's license plate.

Rebuttal five. Not much of a rebuttal on that one. We actually agree on that believe it or not. Look for the M6 first. If you can't find one then get an A4 and stall it. Then if you don't like it do the swap. At least a stalled 4L60E might draw some interest from a M6 guy out there wanting to go to an A4.

I probably won't check this forum again tonight but if you insult me some more then I'll be back tomarow for more rebuttals (Lol).

Peace