Lost to a 4-banger!

Hey guys........got an interesting story here!

I live in California and was driving the I-5 up to Oregon over winter.

I was cruising at the normal 80-85 MPH in 6th when I notice a car closing on me fast in my rearview mirror. I pulled over into the slow lane and watched as a Subaru WRX blew by me at about 100.

Well, I couldnt let that go...........So, I picked it up a little and watched as the WRX kept pulling away from me. (now I'm not stupid and I want a speeding ticket at those speeds like the plague!)

I noticed some traffic ahead and sure enough the WRX got slowed up and I caught up.

I noticed an opening (going about 75 MPH at this point) and I dropped it into 4th and punched it.

I blew by the WRX and kept accelerating all the way up to 115 or so...........the WRX fell in behind me and started gaining on me.

At around 120 - 125 (I'm in 6th gear by this point) this WRX pulled up next to me and passed me! (I had the gas floored)

I know that I should have been in 5th and I probably could have continued pulling this WRX.........but, WTF?

Are these cars really that fast? Anyone else have an experience with these turbo'd 4 bangers?

I tell you what! I was amazed!

(I've noticed something else this winter season........all the little rice burners want to race when it's wet!)

well your an LT1 so you dont pull well up top. and hes modified those cars arent fast up top either. and how is this autox or road racing related? no biggy. but yes they are pretty fast for what they are and they do rather well in autox if driven by a good driver. Trey

A new WRX STi has 300hp. They are NOT slow cars. That's one reason there has been so much flack about them running in ESP this year.

Originally posted by bruecksteve
A new WRX STi has 300hp. They are NOT slow cars. That's one reason there has been so much flack about them running in ESP this year.

ESP? Really? Whats the EVO supposed to be running in?

ESP too.

What, have you been living under a rock? Even the non-STi WRX has the same power/weight as an LT1 F-body. Of course, going to 6th was an *extremely* poor move, you probably should've had him otherwise. Hell, 4th is good for 130mph, and there's a .5:1 gearing difference from 4th to 6th! You must've barely been accelerating at all, even at full throttle.

Funny that the 4-cyl crowd has just as little appreciation for how quick 4th gens (particularly LS1s) are as you had for how quick some "4-bangers" are. It's not the number of cylinders, or the displacement, the weight, or the drive configuration. It's the total PACKAGE.

Originally posted by Dan Baldwin
Even the non-STi WRX has the same power/weight as an LT1 F-body. Of course, going to 6th was an *extremely* poor move, you probably should've had him otherwise. Hell, 4th is good for 130mph, and there's a .5:1 gearing difference from 4th to 6th! You must've barely been accelerating at all, even at full throttle.

Have you ever been on a race course? Have you ever visited the 5800 rpm zone transitioning from third to fourth? 6th gear? You've got to be kidding. Save the fast stuff for the course.

BTW, whatever you do, next time check for the STi badge. The one you messed with wasn't even the HP model.



Steve

Stock WRX's only trap about 94-95 mph in the 1/4 mile, compared to 98-100mph for the LT1. Stock they are not a match for the stock LT1 from a roll. You should have pulled him, especially at those speeds.

He was probably modded, but it KILLED you to be in 6th. You lost about 35% acceleration by doing that instead of staying in 5th.

Dan

Originally posted by Dan Baldwin
What, have you been living under a rock? Even the non-STi WRX has the same power/weight as an LT1 F-body.

Um. Not to perpetuate this thread, but...
3500 (high number for curb weight) / 285 = 12.28
3086 / 227 = 13.59
13.59 != 12.28.
And a non-STi WRX absolutely sucks after 5k.

And my housemate has an up-pipe gutted WRX. There's no comparison who's faster (curves aren't quite fair, considering my car's mods, but I have no power mods).

Dan

Originally posted by lincmarkv
Um. Not to perpetuate this thread, but...
3500 (high number for curb weight) / 285 = 12.28
3086 / 227 = 13.59
13.59 != 12.28.
And a non-STi WRX absolutely sucks after 5k.

And my housemate has an up-pipe gutted WRX. There's no comparison who's faster (curves aren't quite fair, considering my car's mods, but I have no power mods).

Dan

So basically you're saying that you're faster and handle better? I'm sure you only mean on dry roads. That's cool. My buddy has a '04 WRX wagon. I helped him install his gutted up-pipe too. Made a nice improvement. They do have nice power, but don't seem to have the pull of the LT1. I think the wagon weighs closer to 3200 lbs so the weight to power ratio is even worse. We have never raced head to head mainly because we want to stay friendly, and not compete with each other over cars. It's a nice vehicle though, and has plenty of room for mods.

He also has a new rear sway bar and a rear strut tower brace. Those two combos made a big difference for him. It feels very nice now. I know WRX's are known for good handling, so if you can outhandle a WRX, then that's pretty impressive.

He's getting Cobb tuning in the spring.

Dan

Let me put it this way....
Here is a post from the SCCAForums from this years F Stick National Champion Mike "Jr." Johnson...

Maybe my opinion isn't worth anything, but here it goes... Yesterday, Pat Salerno and I drove Steve Eguina's car at the event at Fontana. The course was a mimic of the north course at Nationals this year. We had already driven the course twice in other cars, and then took two runs a piece in Steve's car. Pat ran a 48.8??+1 I ran a 49.4?? CLEAN. I then got into the second place ESP car from Nationals last year, an EVO, and in one run went 48.000. There was still more in the car... The car also had just got new shocks and really has not been completely sorted. The Evo in my opinion is NOT an ESP car. If you are taking the other A/S cars to B/SP, then the EVO and STI should go to B/SP also. Maybe it won't run with the vettes and BMWs, but my money says it will. It just needs the driver and some seat time. By the way, those that think that the LS1 car is the car to have in a F-body have never driven a LT-4 with a 93 tranny. Pat and I both felt like Steve's car was the fastest Camaro that we have ever driven.

As for the Sti/Evo in A/S not being competitive. I drove a stock, no alignment and no tires, Sti at a local event here in New Jersey. I won the Pax and missed FTD by .200. So I think that car will do just fine in A/S, but what do I know...
Mike "Junior" Johnson
2003 F/S National Champion


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Originally posted by TA Dreaming
well your an LT1 so you dont pull well up top.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I love it when people say this.......

In fact LT1s pull quite nicely on the top end. A few bolt ons really helps them breathe up top. It's funny how up until the LS1 came out these cars were fast up top, but suddenly they got slower mysteriously when the LS1 came out, because that's all they're ever compared to.

one more for road-->> :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 5.0THIS



I love it when people say this.......

In fact LT1s pull quite nicely on the top end. A few bolt ons really helps them breathe up top. It's funny how up until the LS1 came out these cars were fast up top, but suddenly they got slower mysteriously when the LS1 came out, because that's all they're ever compared to.

one more for road-->>

I would think so also,since the peak hp/tq. is available earlier in the LT1.As is a 5th-6th gear situation.
If it were me in my LS1 4th to 125-30mph.Would have continued to gain on it.But that would be racing,meant for the track. This is a Road race/Auto X forum not a Street racing forum.Street Racing is ILLEGAL.Join a club doit at the the track,we love to hear those storys always.This one make me ill,Our wives and kids are out there man.:)

Originally posted by 5.0THIS
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I love it when people say this.......

In fact LT1s pull quite nicely on the top end. A few bolt ons really helps them breathe up top. It's funny how up until the LS1 came out these cars were fast up top, but suddenly they got slower mysteriously when the LS1 came out, because that's all they're ever compared to.

one more for road-->> :rolleyes:

he only has a cat back so no hes not going to pull well up top, not like other cars. not like most turbos cars in fact.

and i assumed he was talking about a regular WRX which does not have any top end pull. if it is an STi then by all means will it fly in stock form. sorry if i gave the original author credit for knowing the difference between a regular WRX and an STi version. my bad next time ill consider his info and responses dumb just like you have.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

theres a couple more for you

Originally posted by TA Dreaming
he only has a cat back so no hes not going to pull well up top, not like other cars. not like most turbos cars in fact.

and i assumed he was talking about a regular WRX which does not have any top end pull. if it is an STi then by all means will it fly in stock form. sorry if i gave the original author credit for knowing the difference between a regular WRX and an STi version. my bad next time ill consider his info and responses dumb just like you have.

my comment had nothing to do with what the original poster said, it had everything to do with your all-encompassing dumbass remark about LT1s and their lack of top end. I realize a turbo's ability to pull on the high end, but I also realize the drawbacks of AWD cars. A stock WRX is no match for many normally aspirated cars up top, let alone a Z28, LT1 or otherwise.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TA Dreaming
he only has a cat back so no hes not going to pull well up top, not like other cars. not like most turbos cars in fact.

and i assumed he was talking about a regular WRX which does not have any top end pull. if it is an STi then by all means will it fly in stock form. sorry if i gave the original author credit for knowing the difference between a regular WRX and an STi version. my bad next time ill consider his info and responses dumb just like you have.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

theres a couple more for you

So why do so many turbo cars trap less than the stock LT1 camaro if they are so good up top? MANY turbo cars do not hang with the LT1 up top. Not saying the LT1 is the king, but just because a car is turboed does not mean it has great high end. The WRX falls off hard after 5000 - 5500 rpm. The redline is 6750 RPM I believe. They do themselves more harm than good by trying to shift at redline from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. They need to shift early to get better torque in the next gear. That tells you how hard they fall off.
Check out this chart.
http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/images/ae-stage1-dyno.jpg

Steve,
I'm not up on what classes are better than others in autox. Was your post saying that the STI and EVO belong in a better class? I can believe that, but they also cost quite a bit more than a stock Z28.



Oh yeah IanZ28. Please don't drive so fast on the streets. Like others said, our wives and children are out there.

Thanks,
Dan

That's why I posted originally that I don't want a speeding ticket at those kinds of speeds......not to mention the safety issues involved for me and others. I'm 28 years old....and yes I do know better than driving on any public roads at those speeds.

The freeway was flat and straight where this occured and there was very little traffic at all. I think we passed 2 cars during this recklessness.

Sorry I posted in the wrong area......I put the post in its correct location.

Do they do any of this autocross stuff at Sears Point?

this is worthless. if you think an LT1 pulls up top fine its subjective anyway. yes it has plenty of power, but its not making good power in the upper rpms. torque is already sloping off after 4000k and it gets worse the more you go. now go compare that to an LT4 or an LS1 or hell even a stone stock vtec honda notice a difference? thats right the power doesnt drop off as bad. voila there you have it a car that pulls harder up top than an LT1. does that make it faster than an LT1 no not neceserrily. does it mean it pulls harder than an LT1 up top? yep sure does becuase yep you guessed it thats where its making it power.

it is inherent in the design of an LT1 that it doesnt make power well up top (im talking about 4500 and up in 5th or 6th gear. thats top end running not fourth gear)that doesnt means its slow. that doesnt mean it cant be modified. hell ive taken L98s and made them breath very well all the way to 6500. been there done that doing it again. ive blown LS1s and they pulll so hard to redline youll hit the rev limiter and wonder what happened to all those rpms you still had to go through. is this because of some low gearing or becuase im spinning the tires on a wet road? no its becuase the power doesnt slope off bad if at all before red line. its making its power up top and its pulling harder up top than it does low end.

look at dyno graphs they dont lie. the LT1 doesnt have top end pull like other cars do. all its power is down low and is done before redline. yes its easy to over come. a set of LTs and a full exhaust will do it.

im done with this. my comment that stock (becuase thats what i was referring to and the type of car in question is) LT1s dont have good top end pull stands. the dyno graphs prove it.

LT1's have more torque up top than most other cars, even after they start to fall off 4500 rpm's. They go from about 290 rwtq at 4500 rpm down to 220 rwtq at 5700 rpm. That is not bad torque. Most cars would love to have that torque at those RPM's stock.

Why are you even talking about 5th or 6th gear? They are both overdrive gears. Of coarse they have bad torque to the ground. Not many people are going to go much faster than you would in 4th gear at redline. If you are using 5th or 6th in a race, something is wrong.

You can always find SOME cars that have higher TQ at those RPM's, but the selection is limited.

Oh yeah, just so you have your termonology correct, the LT1 makes it's best torque down low, not it's best power(HP). It's best power is at about 5000 rpm and stays farily steady to readline. It's the torque that starts to get less at 4500 rpm.

If LT1's have such a poor top end, then why to they trap 100 mph with a 3500 lb car? How many other stock engines will do that?

Dan

I've read a lot of your guy's posts about 4th gear (m6) topping out at 120 or so................

Maybe the last owner of my car did some gear work or something.......because last night I did a few drags out on a deserted road and my 4th redlines at around 105.

I've always thought the gearing in my car was a little different than my first m6 camaro. I remember being able to hit 40-45 in first with my last one.......with this one it's more like 35 or so.

80mph in sixth gear is just under 2000 rpm according to the tach. if your spinning higher your not a 3.42 geared car.

Sounds like it might be a 3.73. Maybe more. What is "topped out" rpm? Topping out at 5500 or a little beyond, would be just about 105 if it was a 4.10 gear.

Originally posted by IanZ28
I remember being able to hit 40-45 in first with my last one.......with this one it's more like 35 or so.

Maybe around 38?? 5500rpm

around 5500 RPM's at 105

Unless your tach is off, you definitly have different rear gears.

4th should top out at about 125 or so.

Sounds like you might even have 4.10's

Dan

Wow, talk about being in the wrong gear :eek: The WRX will possibly take you out on the street from a stop, but shouldn't on the freeway, I've pretty much laid they out from a roll ;)

Next time, be in the right gear, also, that's pretty cool how your clutch kept from smokin :cool:

Please get this street racing post out of here! People in here are mature and responsible enough to take their racing to a local autocross or track. Grow up.