Lincoln to launch new products....

....Isn't it about time?

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/05/a01-26600.htm

Strange how the Lincoln rep disputes the criticism that Lincoln has forsaken the luxury car for the luxury truck...and then admits that there are at least 2 new Lincoln trucks in the pipeline.

Nice Aviator concept. :barf:
Lincoln LT pickup based on F-150? Err, ok. It worked well the last time. :confused:

Wow, that "thing" at the top is horrendous. :yuck: The Mark X at the bottom looks kind of cool, though. I wonder what the front looks like. :think:

..the Aviator looks like a AMC Eagle AWD Wagon :eek: :barf:

Is Mark X based off the current Thunderbird? Proportions look very similar, even the C-pillar on the roof line.

What's the story with next-gen T-bird?

Originally posted by Doug Harden
..the Aviator looks like a AMC Eagle AWD Wagon :eek: :barf:

:lol: Sad, but true...

Kinda hard to tell anything about the Mark X since the roof is going up or down, but so far not too bad...

LT truck doesn't look too bad, actually... They have to try to do what ever they can to try to keep up with Caddy.

I'm sure this time around it will be better designed. Fixed tonneau cover, carpeted bed etc.? WTF were they thinking... :rolleyes:

TS

Originally posted by muckz
Is Mark X based off the current Thunderbird? Proportions look very similar, even the C-pillar on the roof line.

What's the story with next-gen T-bird?

that is the next gen t bird...they said it was going upscale..meaning the Mark X and no word on these living legends..the word is they are for limited runs..thats all?? yea right :bs:

but yea no t bird for a few years..

Mark LT is the best name they came up with?? Obviously more versatile then that lame duck Blackwood--it looks like it will be pretty pricey--and won't be as veratile as a Cadillac EXT, or as fast.

Wow.

A new F150 with a different grille,
A warmed over T-Bird,
and, like it's been said... an AMC Eagle wannabe....

:confused:


I agree that Lincoln is in desperate need of some new product... but.... this certainly doesn't cut the mustard.

It sure doesn't. They realy need to have thier own vehicles to compete otherwise they will just be running to stand still.

They need to launch that Aviator concept all right.......right off a cliff...

Originally posted by formula79
They need to launch that Aviator concept all right.......right off a cliff...

:lol: No joke. File that one in Lincoln's recent large cabinet of WTF were they thinking.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
A new F150 with a different grille,
A warmed over T-Bird,
and, like it's been said... an AMC Eagle wannabe....

Seems there's one pretty common denominator here. Lincoln is trying to get competitive again with minimal investment. Take your F-150, put a Lincoln grill and badges and a plusher interior on it and there's your luxury truck. Now take your dying T-Bird platform and use it to underpin a stylish yet apparently another soft halo roadster...and so it goes. Caddy put itself in a good position now because you have to spend money to make money. These products aren't convincing me that this is nothing more than another half-hearted attempt at Lincoln.

Originally posted by Doug Harden
..the Aviator looks like a AMC Eagle AWD Wagon :eek: :barf:

Damn I was thinking the same thing. Whenever I believe that they can not come out with an uglier vehicle one pops up.

anyone have better pics of the F150..I mean lincoln pickup?

Lincoln is in such sad shape.

The only thing that will make them ok is if they release a Supercharged RWD version of the LS :p

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Seems there's one pretty common denominator here. Lincoln is trying to get competitive again with minimal investment. Take your F-150, put a Lincoln grill and badges and a plusher interior on it and there's your luxury truck.
Honestly! What a goofy idea! Who'd ever thought of such a lame thing!
After all, the Escalade is a TOTALLY different vehicle than the Yukon...
And the Denali is SO much different from a Tahoe...
And the Escalade EXT is COMPLETELY different from the Avalanche...
Obviously this not some new fad, right? :confused:

Now take your dying T-Bird platform and use it to underpin a stylish yet apparently another soft halo roadster...and so it goes. Caddy put itself in a good position now because you have to spend money to make money.
Can't really disagree with you on this point. But again, you don't think all of Caddy's new vehicles are pinned on totally new platforms with all-new suspension and drivetrains do you?

Granted, Ford is doing more of the reskin game now than GM, and I don't think too much reskinning is a good thing either because it just makes future upgrades that much harder and costly to pull off. Ford is doing what they have to to get out of the financial and quality-related problems left by the Jaques Nasser administration (anybody here familiar with the Ronny-Z scenario a few years ago? New executive administration? Cut projects? etc.?). Between that and the Explorer/Firestone debacle, Ford took some huge hits in the wallet and the arse. They DID spend money, and lots of it, on their key units like the Mustang and F-150, but they couldn't afford to put EVERY car and truck on a new platform because of their financial shape. I think they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with, and all-in-all, they ain't doing too bad - Truck of the year in '04, likely car of the year in '05, the GT40, Shelby on-board, and an aggressive turn-around strategy that includes 65 new model releases in 4 years - not too shabby for a broke lame duck IMO.

These products aren't convincing me that this is nothing more than another half-hearted attempt at Lincoln. Again, I DO AGREE with you, but I also think you should consider the conditions I noted above. I'd rather think the attempt is "half-funded" than "half-hearted", because I'm sure they'd rather have done more thorough redesigns than they were permitted to do. I beleive guionM posted something along these lines a couple months ago in fact, that Lincoln and Mercury both were set for major revamping, but the fiscal plug got pulled after the executive restructuring. And after all, any attempt to reskin or refresh a design is better than no attempt at all. F4 lovers should know that better than anyone.
:(

Originally posted by ProudPony
Honestly! What a goofy idea! Who'd ever thought of such a lame thing!
After all, the Escalade is a TOTALLY different vehicle than the Yukon...
And the Denali is SO much different from a Tahoe...
And the Escalade EXT is COMPLETELY different from the Avalanche...
Obviously this not some new fad, right?

I thought about this before ripping into the Lincoln truck... but at least GM went to the length of giving totally different front ends to all three divisions... also different taillights...

The Lincoln, at leats from that picture, literally has a different grille from the F150... and that is it.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
The Lincoln, at least from that picture, literally has a different grille from the F150... and that is it.

WELL STATED. We have all made our comments on this board about judgements made based on a picture, haven't we?

Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending it or even that I like it (I'm not sure I really do), I just don't want folks in here thinking that Ford didn't WANT to do something better. I think their resources are/were very limited for these sorts of projects, and that an "F150 with a different grill" is not such a bizarre pill to swallow in the US luxury truck market. Given the success of the Escalade, Denali, Navigator, King Ranch, and various high-end import offerings, I feel confident that these Lincoln trucks will sell - but how many I DON'T know! My bet is not very many, so the shared platform and sheetmetal will help defray costs greatly.

Catch 22, isn't it?

While i agree that the escalade/escalade ext is a rebadging, one thing GM does to distinguish a bit more, is put the 345 hp h.o. 6 liter motor in them as well as AWD. I believe the only other vehicle with that motor is the Silverado SS.

I didn't see a motor upgrade listed for that lincoln truck, and I don't see it competing or selling well if it doesn't have one. Although its towing and cargo capabilities may help it sell if those 2 features beat what the cadillac competitors offer.

I think the Aviator is a much better look for Lincoln after their list of "blah" front ends (yes, I'm aware I'm probally the only one here that actually is intrigued by the thing).

The Mark X is also a pretty good move for Lincoln. The Thunderbird was miscast IMHO, and either should of had more juice or stayed around as a RWD coupe.

A 2 passenger luxury convertible is a better Lincoln than a Ford.

Originally posted by Tackleberry
While i agree that the escalade/escalade ext is a rebadging, one thing GM does to distinguish a bit more, is put the 345 hp h.o. 6 liter motor in them as well as AWD. I believe the only other vehicle with that motor is the Silverado SS.

I didn't see a motor upgrade listed for that lincoln truck, and I don't see it competing or selling well if it doesn't have one. Although its towing and cargo capabilities may help it sell if those 2 features beat what the cadillac competitors offer.

The new '04 F-150 has a substantially upgraded 5.4L available over the base 4.6 V8. I assume this new 5.4-3V will be base engine in the Lincoln truck, with perhaps the S/C 5.4 from the Harley F-150 available as optional ( it is already a bolt-in).

I dunno - I've been studying the cars this week, not the trucks!:cool:

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I thought about this before ripping into the Lincoln truck... but at least GM went to the length of giving totally different front ends to all three divisions... also different taillights...


Thanks Darth.

ProudPony, that's what I'm talking about. The Escalade would NOT be confused with a Chevy Tahoe, at least up close. Cadillac at least popped for different sheet metal all around. And as far as platforms go, Sigma is exclusively Cadillac and for the first time in 50 years Corvette is sharing its platform with someone else. This is what I'm talking about when I say that GM is putting the investment, and the swagger, into its luxury division to make it better while it doesn't appear on the surface that Ford is doing the same for Lincoln. I don't mean to bash on Lincoln too hard but I really do think they're only fooling themselves if they honestly believe you can compete in the luxury market with obvious re-badge jobs of lower end products.

By the way, how's about a new Town Car to go against the Deville, or a redesign of the LS? Two things Lincoln desperately needs, not more luxo-trucks. JMO I guess. :)

It seems that in reguards to the passenger vehicles, Ford is not doing the right thing here. With Cadillac, the platform is made for the luxury vehicles (CTS, SRX, maybe even XLR) and then spread down to other vehicles. This way, you are starting with a great chassis and the other vehicles that go on that platform can benefit from that even if some of the sophistication does not translate. For is doing the opposite where an inexpensive chassis from "lower" vehicles is dressed up to perform high-end duties. It seems to me that the way GM is doing it is the way to go, not just because it is GM that is doing it, but because it makes sense.

Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL
This way, you are starting with a great chassis and the other vehicles that go on that platform can benefit from that even if some of the sophistication does not translate.

Well, in doing that you're also making your "lesser" vehicles more expensive if you start with your best chassis and have it trickle down. I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way of doing it save having the money to keep a chassis like Cadillac -> Sigma totally exclusive. I'm just looking for more obvious separation from, say an F-150 to a Lincoln LT. I just don't think this'll work. Then again I could be wrong, Lincoln hit the mark in a big way with the original Navigator which I think varied little with the Expedition of the time. :think:

isnt the LS RWD??

and something should be done to the siding to that truck..not just a grill..trying to follow in GM's steps..but not with a SUV but a pickup..

you know the Blackwood was a really nice truck..ever see it in person?? AWSOME..we saw one right next to a Harly Davidson pickup..they are nice..if Licoln put the HD interior and style to the Lincoln and you got a winner..

pic of front of the thunderbird..I mean lincoln..

kinda weird but I might like it...

http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/lincoln/mark10/images/1.jpg

Lincoln needs to have a Mark.
That new Mark X looks too much like the Thunderbird... I think they need to differentiate it more. But at the same time it looks ok.

Now, the pickup truck thing... they need to fix their car line-up before they go trying new things... their first attempt at a pickup was a $100 Million flush down the toilet.

Hey Billy Jr... go have a talk with your Lincoln people!

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I thought about this before ripping into the Lincoln truck... but at least GM went to the length of giving totally different front ends to all three divisions... also different taillights...

The Lincoln, at leats from that picture, literally has a different grille from the F150... and that is it.

The pics and details are coming in slowly but surely...
Different front-end - check Pic (http://www.freep.com/autos/photos/autoshow_2004/06lincolnmarklt/4306lincolnmarklt.htm)
Different tail lights - check pic (http://www.freep.com/autos/photos/autoshow_2004/06lincolnmarklt/0106lincolnmarklt.htm)
Upgraded interior - check (holy-chit is this nice!) pic (http://www.freep.com/autos/photos/autoshow_2004/06lincolnmarklt/2106lincolnmarklt.htm)
Upgraded engine - check.
Pricing under control - check (at least by rumors so far anyways)

I think we'll have to wait and see if this one flops like the Blackwood. I'm thinking this one's gonna do a little better.

So tell me again why this reskin job is so different from the GM way of doing it? :confused:

Originally posted by ProudPony

Upgraded engine - check.
Pricing under control - check (at least by rumors so far anyways)

I think we'll have to wait and see if this one flops like the Blackwood. I'm thinking this one's gonna do a little better.

So tell me again why this reskin job is so different from the GM way of doing it? :confused:

Proudpony,
when you say 'upgraded engine', do you mean it will have an engine that is NOT offered in the 2004 F-150?? Because the new 5.4 300 hp engine IS offered in the 2004 F-150...which means it would not be an upgrade. Where as the 345 HP escalade engine can only be had in the silverado SS.

If you aren't talking about the 5.4, then what is the engine?!?! I think that is what will make or break this truck.

Originally posted by ProudPony
The pics and details are coming in slowly but surely...
Different front-end - check Pic (http://www.freep.com/autos/photos/autoshow_2004/06lincolnmarklt/4306lincolnmarklt.htm)
Different tail lights - check pic (http://www.freep.com/autos/photos/autoshow_2004/06lincolnmarklt/0106lincolnmarklt.htm)


I see they're still hanging on to the "Griswald Family Truckster"-style tail lights. :lol: ;)

So tell me again why this reskin job is so different from the GM way of doing it? :confused:

Maybe the task gets more difficult because there are fewer ways to differentiate a pickup...but I still see an awful lot of F-150 sheet metal on there. As I said, the Escalade and EXT got a different wrapper which carries the edgier Caddy design themes. But I have no doubt the LT, if built, will do better than Blackwood. The question of how much demand there will be for a luxury pickup will surely be answered.

This is the only recent Lincoln concept Ive liked...

http://images.forbes.com/images/2002/01/07/lincolnfront_415x345.jpg

Id like mine in black please...With the 600 horse V-10 out of the Shelby Cobra concept.

:D

Other than that, the current Towncar holds more appeal than any of Lincolns concepts or recent truck offerings.

Originally posted by MissedShift
This is the only recent Lincoln concept Ive liked...

http://images.forbes.com/images/2002/01/07/lincolnfront_415x345.jpg

Id like mine in black please...With the 600 horse V-10 out of the Shelby Cobra concept.

:D

Other than that, the current Towncar holds more appeal than any of Lincolns concepts or recent truck offerings.

tell me that wont give the new STS a run for its $$$$ :bow: :bow:

I think some of you are seeing what you want to see when it comes to the Escalade.

Look at the first Escalade. It was a Suburban with a different grill and hood. Add in a bit of wood inside, and charge $10K more for it. The Escalade EXT does have a different front clip. However, from the A-pillar back it is the same as the Avalanche......... it just has some lower body cladding and different taillights. The interior, once again, has nice wood trim. For this, you pay $15K more.

I think for the base engine on the Lincoln truck, you will see either an upgraded version of the 5.4 DOHC, or the 5.4 3-valve. However, you will note that there is very litte being said about the engine. I think this is because you will see a S/C 5.4 offered also (there will one available on the Navigator also, on the R model). So, you will have a different front grille and taillights/tailgate........... different engines, and an upgraded interior (how they can make the Lariet interior look much nicer is beyond me.......... short of using real wood). There will also be a larger wheel/tire package and different suspension tuning.

The Lincoln truck is supposed to undercut the Escalade EXT by as much as $7K in fully loaded trim.

Frankly, if they offer the supercharged engine and 4wd/Awd......... I will be buying one. I have wanted a Kings Ranch SuperCrew for as long as they have made them........... I just wanted the Lightning / HD engine in it. Looks like I will finally get my wish.

This truck will succeed where the Blackwood failed because it is a real truck.............. that is able to do real truck things. This is what doomed the Blackwood. It was a real pretty, useless 2wd truck.

Originally posted by 94LightningGal
I think some of you are seeing what you want to see when it comes to the Escalade.

Look at the first Escalade. It was a Suburban with a different grill and hood. Add in a bit of wood inside, and charge $10K more for it. The Escalade EXT does have a different front clip. However, from the A-pillar back it is the same as the Avalanche......... it just has some lower body cladding and different taillights. The interior, once again, has nice wood trim. For this, you pay $15K more.

I think for the base engine on the Lincoln truck, you will see either an upgraded version of the 5.4 DOHC, or the 5.4 3-valve. However, you will note that there is very litte being said about the engine. I think this is because you will see a S/C 5.4 offered also (there will one available on the Navigator also, on the R model). So, you will have a different front grille and taillights/tailgate........... different engines, and an upgraded interior (how they can make the Lariet interior look much nicer is beyond me.......... short of using real wood). There will also be a larger wheel/tire package and different suspension tuning.

The Lincoln truck is supposed to undercut the Escalade EXT by as much as $7K in fully loaded trim.

Frankly, if they offer the supercharged engine and 4wd/Awd......... I will be buying one. I have wanted a Kings Ranch SuperCrew for as long as they have made them........... I just wanted the Lightning / HD engine in it. Looks like I will finally get my wish.

This truck will succeed where the Blackwood failed because it is a real truck.............. that is able to do real truck things. This is what doomed the Blackwood. It was a real pretty, useless 2wd truck.

We don't know all the details of this lincoln truck yet so I don't think you can claim it to be any different than the EXT. I will never say the EXT is a bargain, although i've never been in one or studied one to know if and how much better it is than an avalanche. Have you? and unless what you say about the engine, suspension and price of this lincoln truck are true, then i don't think anyone could claim it to be any different than the EXT, especially not a better bargain.

I'm really surprised the Aviator concept isn't getting a better reception here. I really like this vehicle. It's everything visually that the soap-bar Porsche Cayenne was supposed to be. I believe this design has great potential. FINALLY - a truly distinctive grille and front end, and one that manages to look modern while still providing some classic Lincoln cues. I love the stance, the flared fenders and the low roof/chopped window look of the greenhouse. This is one of the best Lincoln concepts I have seen in years.

I like the aviator concept a lot also!

Aside from the LT, these concepts are just bad-looking all around. I hope to God they look better in person. The LT has a lot of potential and I do like the looks of it, but I dont think it doesnt have the gangster appeal that an EXT does. I guess I'll know for sure when we see what Jean Paul pulls up in his next video.

Looks like no special engine, no special exterior, no AWD......

In general spruced up F150???

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/autoshows/naias2004/lincoln/lt.html

Originally posted by Derek M
Looks like no special engine, no special exterior, no AWD......

In general spruced up F150???


Maybe. I would like to see a 350hp 5.4L Dohc in it. What engine will the Navigator get next? It's been using the 300hp 5.4 Dohc (same output for new 3v 5.4) for a while now and i'm sure a new engine has got to be in the works....atleast i'm hoping. If so, that could see use in this lincoln truck.

I love the interior though. Looks really good.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/7613_image.jpg
gauges
http://www.pickuptruck.com/IMAGES/autoshows/naias2004/lincoln/lt4.jpg