LCA's and relocation brackets

im buying a set of LCA's, my car is not lowered.

will buying a set of relcocation brackets improve my straight line traction?

jesse

NO. Relocator brackets on a stock car will make the rear handle a bit goofy. Only use them if your car is lowered to correct the LCA geometry. You traction will improve slightly , depends on tires also.

Originally posted by 1msfyter
NO. Relocator brackets on a stock car will make the rear handle a bit goofy. Only use them if your car is lowered to correct the LCA geometry. You traction will improve slightly , depends on tires also.

Umm.....actually getting relocation brackets will greatly improve the suspension geometry of you car.:rolleyes: What the hell are you smoking? The stock suspension geometry is crap on the f-bodies. Getting relocation brackets will improve straight line traction because it will relocate the pitch of the rear.

So yes, go ahead and get some relocation brackets and LCA's. You will notice an great improvement in traction.

thank you, LimitedEd1LE
thats what i was thinking, it would improve straight line traction, but may cause the car not to corner well.
i dont care about cornering, just straight line performance :D

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=207176

It all depends , try it and see how it corners , also what type of tires you have etc.....

Originally posted by 1msfyter
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=207176

It all depends , try it and see how it corners , also what type of tires you have etc.....

i saw that thread, i already posted in it :)
it got me to thinking about this thread topic.....
tires want be a problem, i have DR for the street and et streets for the track, instead of wanting more traction, i should start saving for a 12 bolt.....
it may help some, but it definately shouldnt hurt my sixty foot time.....
i will add that to my list of stuff to buy this week.
thanks
jesse

Limited is right. Relocation brackets will help, even on a stop height vehicle. Just put them on the upper of the 2 holes.

like what sjs said above

if your car is not lowered use the upper of the 2 holes. i advise in getting the weld in ones, or atleast welding the bolt on ones

i didn't notice any loss in handling after installing them, mind you i don't drive it like a formula 1 car, but it did help in a straight line

Originally posted by S.J.S.
Limited is right. Relocation brackets will help, even on a stop height vehicle. Just put them on the upper of the 2 holes.
I just lowered my 95 with BMR springs and I put in the LCA relocation brackets. I put them in the top holes, should I put them in the lower ones?

Ian

yes if your car is lowered you are to use the lower of the 2 holes

They help very little. Even the people that sell them admit MAYBE .1 in your 60 foot times. And the stock geometry is not crap. Ask any guys that autocross or road race their cars. Most of the guys that are allowed to do it in their class do it for the added strength, reduced weight and more precise location, not because it gives them more traction or anything else. Get a torque arm if you want to play with pinion angle.

Another myth....

I didn't notice much difference when I installed them on my car.

And you won't. Not only that, if you lower the rear mounting points too far, high speed handling can be very dangerous. At best you want both front and rear parallel.

They sure do look good though!!!!:D

Well a tenth on your 60' is at least that in the quarter. As far as a difference goes.....I noticed a HUGE difference in my car. Before my car would wheelhop so bad I thought the rear was gonna come through the trunk. I have never felt wheel hop since. I only spin tires now but thats because they are like 2 years old with 30k on them.

i noticed an improvement on the 60' times

isn't it that .1 on the 60 is approx .3 to .4 over the quarter

so then they would be an improvement

Originally posted by steve40
i noticed an improvement on the 60' times

isn't it that .1 on the 60 is approx .3 to .4 over the quarter

so then they would be an improvement

no .1 on your sixty foot time, is good for .1 to .15 on your 1/4.

jesse

Originally posted by bruecksteve
They help very little. Even the people that sell them admit MAYBE .1 in your 60 foot times. And the stock geometry is not crap. Ask any guys that autocross or road race their cars. Most of the guys that are allowed to do it in their class do it for the added strength, reduced weight and more precise location, not because it gives them more traction or anything else. Get a torque arm if you want to play with pinion angle.

Another myth....


There is a huge difference in the suspension set-up for an auto-cross car and a strip car. For auto-cross you want to have your car lowered. For drag racing, you don't want your car lowered. So you can't compare the suspension set-up on an auto-cross car and drag strip car. They are totally different.

But I would have to agree that getting a torque arm will help with traction, if you get an adjustable one.

Thinking about trying some LCA brackets, should the pinion angle be returned to stock (0*) or should I leave my -2* in the TA set up and use the relocation brackets?

I have the weld in relocation brackets with stock lca's and right height, I have them in the lower of the two. whats the difference from the top hole ? and does it really matter?

I'm not comparing. I can't use them in my class anyway. I base my statement on what I've not only heard from others but particularily one company that sell's them. I haven't found anyone that can show (with factual information) any real substantial performance benefit, if if there is any, it won't be some really big amount. The point is, there are much better ways to get a performance improvement then LCA's and brackets. The torque arm is a MUCH better improvement for the money.

Originally posted by bruecksteve
The torque arm is a MUCH better improvement for the money.

That is a matter of opinion...the after market TAs are heavy!! and if you are wanting to go fast in 1320FT. then light weight is useful.

The relocation brackets work well and they are much lighter. I have seen several stock TA pull some really good 60's and most of them had the relocation brackets. The problem I have with the stock TA is that it is mounted to the trans. Not a huge problem in an auto set up but for an M6 I just do not like that idea.

On the other side, depending on the set up, I have seen the relocation brackets create more starting line problems than fixing...car would hop and spin on take off with the brackets, removed them and it comes out much better.

It is dependent on each set up....

I'm not comparing. I can't use them in my class anyway. I base my statement on what I've not only heard from others but particularily one company that sell's them. I haven't found anyone that can show (with factual information) any real substantial performance benefit, if if there is any, it won't be some really big amount. The point is, there are much better ways to get a performance improvement then LCA's and brackets. The torque arm is a MUCH better improvement for the money.

You said your self they are good for .1 in the 60ft. For 60 bucks that's a HUGE performance to dollar ratio. I already have an adjustable torque arm and I think I'm going to spend the 55 bucks at UMI for a set of weld ins and see how they do.

And my god, I just realized how old this thread is :lol:

I've been doing suspension on trucks for almost 10 years and the logic still applies to a car. Stock, the rear control arms sit pretty close to parallel to the ground. When you stomp on the gas and the rear suspension compresses, the rear mounting point will end up higher than the front mounting point because of how the suspension travels and affects the position of the frame rail where the front of the arm is mounted is related to the axle position. If the control arm does this and the rear ends up higher than the front, the drive from the tires will actually try to put the axle up and over the front mounting location which in turn causes wheel hop because the tire starts to fight the suspension. When you put in the lower control arm brackets you maintain the downward angle on the control arm. You can hammer on the gas, compress the suspension but still the rear of the control arm won't move above the parallel point, or above the front mount of the control arm. As long as the control arm is at or below parallel with the ground the tires are going to try to drive the axle into the ground putting the power where you want it and eliminating wheel hop. It doesn't change your pinion angle at all and the relocation bracket will use the stock length control arm in any of the holes. Just my opinion with my own personal experience with many different suspensions. I have them and will be doing all the suspension work on my Z once it's put away for the winter in my garage.

Well a tenth on your 60' is at least that in the quarter. As far as a difference goes.....I noticed a HUGE difference in my car. Before my car would wheelhop so bad I thought the rear was gonna come through the trunk. I have never felt wheel hop since. I only spin tires now but thats because they are like 2 years old with 30k on them.

<-------This is what the LCA Relocation brackets are for....

I've seen/measured significant improvements in 60-ft times with the LCA relo brackets, on 4th Gens ranging from 500-1,350HP. Baxter's car picked up 0.1-sec, the same day Steve Spohn welded on the brackets, and that 1/10th was dropping from ~1.44 to ~1.33 60-foots. Nothing else was changed. A car that was traction challenged gained so much traction we had a hard time keeping the rear bumper off the pavement.

I wonder what they will do with my 440ish hp, launching from 5k.

I was just glad to get rid of my wicked wheelhop!

My car is not lowered. I went with just the LCAs and no RLBs for the sake of handling. I read (dont know the validity to this) that RLB's on a stock ride height vehicle will not improve and actually hurts cornering a bit. I decided to go with just LCA's and if I still had wheelhop then I would get them. My wheelhop is gone with just the LCA's and I dont see a need to get RLBs. I have no 60' times to compare but launching the car is worlds more consistent. Handling also improved with LCAs and a panhard rod. Im happy with everything.

Umm.....actually getting relocation brackets will greatly improve the suspension geometry of you car.:rolleyes: What the hell are you smoking? The stock suspension geometry is crap on the f-bodies. Getting relocation brackets will improve straight line traction because it will relocate the pitch of the rear.

So yes, go ahead and get some relocation brackets and LCA's. You will notice an great improvement in traction.

Do you have proof as in time slips of before and after adding relocation brackets? Talk to most Stock Eliminator guys and they will tell you that relocation brackets are worthless. They will even tell you that the brackets put the rear suspension in a bind. I can't say one way or another.

The logic seems simple to me, how can lowering the angle an inch or two hurt? I wish you could set the LCAs to the stock location with the brackets, so that you could compare the difference.

I bough them with my lower control arms. i figured they couldnt hurt, and what do ya know, my wheel hop is completely eliminated. Now if i could just stop spinning maybe i would go somewhere. My tires are **** these days

You can. You can position the control arm in the stock, 2" lower or 3" lower positions.

The logic seems simple to me, how can lowering the angle an inch or two hurt? I wish you could set the LCAs to the stock location with the brackets, so that you could compare the difference.

I'd like to see at least a half dozen different cars with 6 runs each, 3 with stock brackets and 3 withJUST the relocation brackets to be able to say with some confidence that the brackets do work. I was contemplating getting some because everyone seems to think they work. but I'm building a Stock Eliminator type car so i checked with quite a few Stock Eliminator guys and the majority of them say they don't work.

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you had to bolt the brackets on with the stock holes, and then weld them.

I will make a comparison test then.

You bolt them on using the stock holes for positioning to weld them on. If you don't use the stock location then you need to put in the spacer to prevent the bracket from buckeling when you put the bolt in. If you put the arm in the stock location you just wont use the spacer they provide. Just don't lose it if you decide to go to a lower mounting hole.

As for "does it work". It's plain physics. If it doesn't work then the laws of physics don't work and the whole world is coming to an end so who really cares about 60' times. If you have more power being directed to the ground and you don't improve your 60' time then it's something else in your setup that is causing a problem. As for cornering and handling, LCA relocation doesn't affect this at all. It's not moving your axle anyway, it maintains the stock position and the stock geometry through it's entire range of motion. If it feels like it's affecting your cornering then it's probably just the added traction and less lift you are feeling.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, just stating the facts. Just in this case, the facts are in the physics and not what someone says works or doesn't work. Arguing the point doesn't say that anyone here is wrong, it's saying that Mr. Isaac Newton is wrong. :)

As for "does it work". It's plain physics. If it doesn't work then the laws of physics don't work and the whole world is coming to an end so who really cares about 60' times.

:lol: :lol:

it's better for launch but hurts rear traction in hard turning transitions and high speed turning