Couple Questions About Using Nitrous for Cooling Effect

1.) If I were to add nitrous for the cooling effect, would I want a wet or dry system? I need a new throttle body, and I was thinking of just getting the NOS one with the built in fittings, but it's only available as dry.

2.) How much of a shot could my car handle? Fully forged 355, JE Blower Pistons, 8.8:1 compression, afr 195 heads with head studs, T-Trim with 17psi and no intercooler. Cam will be changed to CC306 over winter.

3.) Is this gonna work well to lower my IATs in addition to maybe a little more hp from the nitrous? I was gonna do an air/water intercooler setup, but this route looks cheaper for the time being. Is it worth using the nitrous, or should I just wait for the money to do an air/water?

BTW, this car is primarily a track car, maybe 15% of it's time will be on the street for short trips around town, car shows, that sorta thing. I want the maximum benefit at the track.

i have heard that nitrous is a great way to cool the intake charge. a buddy on mine with a turbocharged Maxima has dynoed quite often. he gains about 60hp with a small shot like a 35 or something. don't quote me on the numbers but i know he gained a lot more power from the nitrous than the size of the jet he had in there. i am actaully thinking of spraying my turbo setup on the stock motor to fight detonation.
as for the wet or dry kit, i would say that if your fuel system is totally up to par with your turbo kit and a little bit of overkill mabey then a dry kit prolly wouldn't hurt as long as you could find a way to get more fuel in when you spray. but for the safety of the wet i think it would be worth it.

Birdie did you ever get your car fixed?

lol, well, the car was never "broken," so.....

If you're referring to putting out the power that the car should be... lol no.

Might want to check into water/alcohol injection if it's a track car. It won't count as another power adder either. ;)

I'm not sure why, but those systems kinda scare me for some reason. I've also heard them referred to as a "band-aid," so I'm not sure what to think...

Originally posted by Birdie2000
lol, well, the car was never "broken," so.....

If you're referring to putting out the power that the car should be... lol no.


You know what I meant :D I think you will be surprised how much power your car will make when you get it dialed in properly. :) I would not worry about the nawzzzzzzzzzz until the car makes the power it should be making.

I'm just worried about cooling the damn air :D

Originally posted by Birdie2000
I'm just worried about cooling the damn air :D

Did you ever look at getting an intercooler?

Originally posted by Birdie2000


3.) Is this gonna work well to lower my IATs in addition to maybe a little more hp from the nitrous? I was gonna do an air/water intercooler setup, but this route looks cheaper for the time being. Is it worth using the nitrous, or should I just wait for the money to do an air/water?

Yes I did. :)

I'd like to do air/water simply because with ice it can get below ambient IATs. Also, I'm not sure exactly how a front mount air/air would work on a Firebird since I'm sure as hell not cutting my front bumper.

Originally posted by Birdie2000
1.) Cam will be changed to CC306 over winter.



I'd look into a cam better suited for forced induction.

That cam was recommended to me by a very respectable local tuner. I was a little leary of it at first too, but he assures me that it's a great starting point for the car and that he can tune it very well. If you have any other suggestions for a "big" blower cam, feel free to share. I'd actually like something a little larger than the CC306 if I had my way...

I dont know why people think nitrous cools anything. becuase its a gas?? Yes nitrous will cool the charge up until it hits the intake valve. After that point..kaboom occurs due to the effects it has on combustion.

In other words what your trying to do is control detonation, not make it worse. What do you think happens to the motor if its knocking and you spray it.. you guessed it.. you become a member of the DOTC

If you want to control detonation... alcohol, water, propane, race gas. Only options.. If you can reduce detonation, then you can safely increase timing,boost and other parameters and make power.

Dont believe in alcohol injection..look into the turbo buicks.. they have been using the stuff for years with tremendous success. I dont think you will find any adverse effects or negative comments anywhere, except for those that dont use it.

HTH...

:D

Originally posted by Birdie2000
That cam was recommended to me by a very respectable local tuner. I was a little leary of it at first too, but he assures me that it's a great starting point for the car and that he can tune it very well. If you have any other suggestions for a "big" blower cam, feel free to share. I'd actually like something a little larger than the CC306 if I had my way...

The 306 has too much overlap, you will be blowing boost out of the exhaust valve. The CC blower grind 224/236/114 would probably work great with your setup...probably even better if ground on a 115 LSA with possibly another degree of advance ground in as well. Best thing to do is get your heads flowed and then decide on what you want the effective compression ratio to be (probably 8.0 ~ 8.3:1). Then choose your cam specs to get that ratio and see if you can find an off the shelf grind that is close to it ...if not, get a custom grind ....it would be worth it. There are some experts on here who can really help you nail it down but I'm not one of them. There is "rskrause" and one other one (I forget the username) who's been nice enough to email me with extremely detailed cam tech analysis who IMO is possibly even more knowledgeable than rskrause (never thought I'd say that but this guy's really off the hook). I always feel that cam choice is numero uno .....as it's the brain of the engine. Your current cam couldn't be helping things with such similar duration on the intake and exhaust. Always consider rod length as another way to get the most power .....probably 5.85's on a 355.

I was seeing intake temperatures of 212 F with a 9# S-Trim non-cooled; needless to say the head gaskets went. Adding the Vortech aftercooler I now only see a 10 degree rise down the quarter mile. I added a 75 shot wet setup; temps stay the same (10 degree rise) but I've cut my times by 4 tenths in the quarter mile.

I think you'll need a wet setup. My computer program is setup for the blower (timing/fuel). Through jetting (nitrous and fuel), you can dial in the nitrous. If you setup the computer to have the proper timing/fuel for blower and nitrous, you'll never be able to run without the nitrous (can you say empty bottle).

cc306 has way too much overlap. Like canbaufo said, you need a cam with 114+ lobe separation angle. As you can see in my sig, I had mine ground on a 115 lsa. Also, supercharger cams generally have about 10-12 degrees more exhaust duration than intake. Lastly, I think that alcohol injection would suit your needs better than nitrous... I am using alcohol injection on my car. Granted it's only 6 psi it's works very well using no intercooler. I believe RSKrause is only using alcohol as well and his car is well into the 600 rwhp range.