3rd gen 383 vs. LT1

So i know this guy with a 91, auto, convertable, camaro that he bored out to a 383 and he thinks it will be a "close" race with me. I dont know much about 3rd gens but i do know that generally they are not too powerful but the whole 383 thing worries me a bit. BUT, he has stock size tires, and hes an auto, and hes a convertable, and hes racing with the top down cause "he swears its faster that way....:rolleyes: " anyways, with my hardtop, M6, hotcammed and geared LT1, i think i have the advantage in this one. What do you guys think???



Chris

You basically told us nothing about the 91... And saying its a 383 makes it more confusing. If it really has a 383, which BTW is more than just an overbore, it could be making anywhere from 250HP to 1000HP. But given its a convert and an auto with small tires, assuming he has an "average" 400HP 383, you will have your hands full. Find out more about the engine. Shouldn't this be in the Lounge?

Even though you didn't give us much info on this guys car I'd still be careful. I met a guy at the track back in July with an '88 IROC. I noticed it was a 5-speed. He mentioned there was a 383 under the hood and his best 1/4 time was 12.30. I didn't think much of it; he had all the normal bolt-ons (headers, exhaust, gears, etc.) Then I actually got to see him run and he cracked off a 11.90, not bad for a 3rd gen.

in my opinion a well built 383 is the s***.(big inch small block) The one i'm building should end up with 500+ horses n/a. So if his is built with quality parts and built right you'll prob not have a good time racing him. Also being an automatic doesn't mean anything. A good setup on an auto will shift faster and more consistant than any person. Just b/c it's a third gen doesn't mean it's slow. Body style doesn't mean anything. just my opinion.

There is a guy around my town with a 383 stroker 3rd gen. My friend said he still had the stock cam in it. But i don't think it does. Anyways he raced a LS1 with a 100 shot. Not sure of its other mods because thats all my friends new of. Either way he only lost by like 1 car. So i would say race him but be carefull.

Awesome matchup...A modified turdgen Vs. an Lt1 with decent mods.

You never really know. A buddy of mine asked me to race his 67 mustang with a 302, he said it had 130K miles, etc..When he showed up, he failed to mention the car was a SCREAMING example of a 302. It's ran 11.0's@ 125-128 ALL MOTOR, with normal traction...haha End to that story he laughed when I mentioned we didn't need to race now..haha:) Talk about a sleeper. Full exhaust, dark green paint, typical weld drag lites, stock appearing stance, 26X10.5X15 Et Streets, etc... BEWARE.

Well i get the car back on monday and im taking him to the track with me on friday.............so we shall see..............



Chris

I'm not even sure really. It has Vic jr heads with a decent amount of work in them, 12:1 comp, 850 carb, a single plane Vic jr intake, not sure on the cam but it's definately on the insane end of the spectrum I'm guessing because it surges(not lopes, SURGES) all while spitting gas out of the cutouts, etc. Shifting at 7500 he said. I'm guessing it's quick because of the weight. Thing can't weight more than 2800 with him in it.

considering he thinks his car is fastest with the top down...
I doubt he knows a whole lot. Race him .. I think youll win

just b/c he doesnt' know anything about his car doesn't mean it
isn't fast. there are plenty of spoiled rich kids who know nothing about cars but have one that will run 12's. i'm not saying he's a kid but maybe he didn't build the motor and he doesn't know anything. People on this board assume way to much. maybe he's got a crappy setup with sh*tty heads and runs a 15.00 or he could run a 10.00 no way of really telling until you run him. i'm just saying that it being a third gen has nothing to do with speed.
yeah you've got a modded lt1 that prob. does some low 13's might touch a 12 something with slicks(yeah yeah just a guess or do you have some track times on your car?) Just don't be disappointed if you do lose, b/c there's no replacement for displacement.

I'd race him. It takes a lot to get a TPI powered car into the mid 12s...a nice cammed LT1 w/ LTs can run mid 12s regularly....Go for it!

If he still has stock heads and intake, you'd beat him with bolt-ons. Think about it... a 350 with the TPI manifold on it runs out of breath HARD at about 4500rpm. Adding more cubic inches will only compound the problem and choke it to an even lower rpm even though it will gain more hp and tq (mainly down low and midrange). He'll eat you up off the line, but with distance you'll walk away with flying colors.

On the other hand, if he's played with the heads and upgraded the TPI runners or switched to a better intake... you may have a big problem waiting for you when you finally catch up to him while he's eating lunch at the end of the track/road/whatever. Good heads and a properly designed intake manifold (with shorter runners for high-rpm breathing) is the perfect replacement for displacement.

There goes another assumption!!! why does it have to be tpi, why can't it be carbed? What then?!! so do ya'll think that every third gen is tpi(b/c i know mine wont be for much longer)just b/c it's third gen doesn't mean it's tpi, why would someone put all that money into a stroker,and leave the crappy tpi?!!! and it's proven that it's easier to get more horses out of a motor if there are more inches. oh by the way i know it was stated earlier but i thought it was kinda funny how quicksilver made fun of him b/c he thought his car was faster with the top down and yet he thought the 383 was just bored- the kettle callin the pot black???- :rolleyes:

Because more than likely it is a TPI, maybe w/ improved intake and better runners, but it's still a high chance that it is indeed a TPI. The improved intake really helps it up top, as long as it has better heads.

Originally posted by STANGeatinZ
There goes another assumption!!! why does it have to be tpi, why can't it be carbed? What then?!! so do ya'll think that every third gen is tpi(b/c i know mine wont be for much longer)just b/c it's third gen doesn't mean it's tpi, why would someone put all that money into a stroker,and leave the crappy tpi?!!! and it's proven that it's easier to get more horses out of a motor if there are more inches

Just a few thoughts, in a peaceful manner....and i'm a little bored right now so here goes :)

Because 95% of people out there don't realize how important the intake really is. Many have a general idea, but few truely understand the mechanics and theory behind it. It's nothing new that the TPI runners are too long to promote pulse-wave tuning at higher rpms, that's why they die off quickly (the pulse waves have too far to travel to get back to the valve in time to force more air in). Very few people who mod these things are intersted in the extra work needed to use a better intake (which is the TPI's weak link). Not bashing third gens at all, but we can't help but assume that it's a moderately basic build considering the info provided to us. And displacement does mean potential, but keep in mind that it also "eats up" port and runner volume and your runner length is dictated by the rpm range you want your max performance at. Generally speaking longer runners promote low and midrange power while shorter runners (to a point) help in the mid and higher rpms.

In light of this, IMO the L98 is a great engine to start with for any application (a little better than the LT1 and LS1 if you ask me). I say this because you can use many of the high-end GenI SBC race heads, straight out of the box with off-the-shelf intakes to match.... without all the problems associated with reverse-cool conversions, fitment issues, and lack of intake options the LT1s MUST deal with or the limited market and high prices the LS1s deal with. If i had a 350 TPI, one of the first things on my list would be to get something like Holley's StealthRam intake and then take off modding. See there, I'm not biased :)

Back to the original topic, JUST RUN HIM :cool:

Originally posted by Fast Caddie
Just a few thoughts, in a peaceful manner....and i'm a little bored right now so here goes :).............
Back to the original topic, JUST RUN HIM :cool:

Hehe, werd.

I really wasn't trying to be an a$$, I just think it's a little naive to assume it's tpi. Personally why spend the extra money to mess with the tpi when you can easily put a carbed 383 into the 12's n/a. I'm with ya'll however: just run him!!!

I can think of several reasons, not the least of which would be emissions concerns. Theres also better street manners, bit better fuel mileage, etc. Just as you would say its a mistake to leave the TPI on it, I say if you can make it work, why go through all the other hassles?

Well anyways, i tried to get some more info out of him but it sounds like he knows jack **** about his car. Its got true duals, 383, heads, and a cam. He doesnt know his flow numbers for his heads, he doesnt know the duration, LSA, or anything like that about his cam. When he turned it on for me it sounded good but i couldnt detect a lobe. All he knows is its "fast" but he thinks we will be a good run. I dont know, we were gonna race the other day but it wouldnt start............something about the flywheel. I dunno. Also it is not the stock automatic, its a "racing" auto. Whatever that means. But he does have stock tires AND stock suspension which means his shocks, struts, springs and all of that **** are more than a decade old. He says its sloppy, it flexes BAD. So im thinking from a dig i got this guy. I guess we will see soon. I will keep you guys up to date when we actually race. I told him to call me anytime and i come and race him so im waiting for him but he keeps making excuses. It will happen though i promise, hes my Fraternity brother, i see him every day, im not going to leave him alone till he ****ing races me!! LOL




Chris

If there's anything i can't stand it's someone who has a fast car and knows nothing at all about it, most likely he really doesn't know what "fast" is,and ya'll know what i mean, people that really don't know a lot about cars don't truely know the meaning of fast. I still disagree however on the point about the tpi, it would cost so much more to mess with that crap when you can easily make over 500 horses with a carb. don't agree? i can list several websites with dyno results on carbed 383s. I do see where emissions would come in however. i always forget about that b/c they don't give a crap in MS.

Ummm....his automatic car wouldn't start because of the flywheel?

Jason

Originally posted by 95z28 -quicksilver
Well anyways, i tried to get some more info out of him but it sounds like he knows jack **** about his car. Its got true duals, 383, heads, and a cam. He doesnt know his flow numbers for his heads, he doesnt know the duration, LSA, or anything like that about his cam. When he turned it on for me it sounded good but i couldnt detect a lobe. All he knows is its "fast" but he thinks we will be a good run. I dont know, we were gonna race the other day but it wouldnt start............something about the flywheel. I dunno. Also it is not the stock automatic, its a "racing" auto. Whatever that means. But he does have stock tires AND stock suspension which means his shocks, struts, springs and all of that **** are more than a decade old. He says its sloppy, it flexes BAD. So im thinking from a dig i got this guy. I guess we will see soon. I will keep you guys up to date when we actually race. I told him to call me anytime and i come and race him so im waiting for him but he keeps making excuses. It will happen though i promise, hes my Fraternity brother, i see him every day, im not going to leave him alone till he ****ing races me!! LOL




Chris

Thats what he said, i have no idea. THat further shows he know jack **** about his car. Oh and i found out last niight that his so called "racing" transmission, it an A4 from an 98 Fbod!!! LOL. wow, that really scares me...........anyways, like yall said, im just gonna run em.



Chris

Ummm....his automatic car wouldn't start because of the flywheel?

NICE!!! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 95z28 -quicksilver
Thats what he said, i have no idea. THat further shows he know jack **** about his car. Oh and i found out last niight that his so called "racing" transmission, it an A4 from an 98 Fbod!!! LOL. wow, that really scares me...........anyways, like yall said, im just gonna run em.



Chris

Unless he has an adapter plate and a custom input shaft, it isn't from a 98 f-body. The GenIII blocks have different bolt patterns and spacing. Plus he would need a stand-alone computer to run it as I'm sure the newer one's can't be converted to the plunger setup (TV cable).

Unless he has an adapter plate and a custom input shaft, it isn't from a 98 f-body. The GenIII blocks have different bolt patterns and spacing. Plus he would need a stand-alone computer to run it as I'm sure the newer one's can't be converted to the plunger setup (TV cable).



Yet another thing that doesnt add up about his car................:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Steve Y
Sounds like a posuer. He is avoiding you and the race. He probably has a 350 and his car is slow as balls. Race him in front of the entire fraternity!

Hah, yeah definitely.

Dude you are going to waste him. A4 from a 98? BS. I remember I used to think my L98 (almost bone stock) was fast. Until you've really ridden in or driven a fast car...you think your car is fast ;)

Be careful........If he doesnt know jack about his car doesnt mean he didnt pay someone else to do the work the right way........He also may have bought the vehicle that way and if so there is no telling what is in there......Maybe its not his car either....
Sleeper maybe, bullshi**** possibly......

Youre call solely as you are there and nobody else is......