New to Nitrous. How much can an OEM 400 block with this bottom end handle?

Im putting together a 400 engine for my 3rd gen. Would like to get 10s out of it. I was originally looking at doing a 434, but with all the options adding up with the extra machine work, and mad expensive crank I dont think I can pull it off.

So what Im looking at now is a 406. SCAT 9000 cast steel crank, Eagle SIR I beam 6.0" bushed rods, Forged Speed Pro pistons. Want to go with a small dome so they will be at about 13.1 compression with the MoTown 220 heads.


I like the looks of this kit. I saw Hot Rod do some tests with it and it was impressive. Nitrous Works Atomizer kit (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TNW%2D11010)

The car wouldnt be driven on the street, hardly at all. Would be pretty much a trailered to the track, race gas car. So that means would only be driven maybe once every other weekend. How much could I run on that set-up? It doesnt need to last forever. Honeystly if it lasts 8 months I would be satisfied, a year I would be very happy. By then I would be bored and want to go another direction anyway.

If it makes a differnce Im gonna be running a 3800-4000 stall, on what tranny I havent decided yet. And hopefully around a 4.56 rear.

Any other things would be welcome, like dont use those particular rods. Or get this type of dome piston cause its designed for nitrous, or that no2 kit sucks ass, etc...

Thats in advance for any help you guys can give. I figure if I can run about 175 or so that should make up for the ci loss, and get me to my goals.

With that engine combo and nitrous I think you have plenty of horsepower to runs 10's. I would recommend that you get your car tuned in N/A then start adding the nitrous. Start small and work your way up to your goal. How many RPMs are you planning to turn your motor? You will likely want less gear then the 4.56's unless you plan to turn your motor pretty tight. If you have the rest of your car set up correctly and have good traction I would bet your car would have a trap speed in excess of 125mph which would be some pretty serious RPMS unless you are planning to run a pretty tall tire. With a 28" tall slick and 125mph with 4.56's you are looking at ~6900rpms. You wont need that much gear to get some crazy 60' times with nitrous. Just to give and idea of the performance you will have RacinLt1 on this board has a LT1 Z28 with a stock long bock and a 175shot(NX wet) and he has run a best of 11.02! So he's nearly in the 10's on a stock long block so you should be well under that. The system you linked to is a Nitrous Works system but If you would like a price on a Nitrous Express system let me know and I can make you a great deal. Thanks

So you dont think I need the 4.56s. Thtas kinda good news cause i have a 9 bolt, and the lowest gear manufactured for it is a 4.11. I really dont wanna shell out the cash for a moser. Do you think that would be enough with the No2? The 406, and MoTown 220s to see 10s?

Cam Ive been looking at is a Doug Herbert Nitrous cam (roller)

int/exh @.050= 253/261

int/exh lift = .598/.625

Lobe C = 112*


All of the interior is gone, and all AC/heater stuff. I would like to get the car down undre a 3000# race weight. Shouldnt be a problem with a 3rd gen. It may already be there I havent weighed it.

90:10 ratio front drag struts, Ladder bars, Subframes, Hotchkis rear suspension Package. About a 28" tall slick.

But you didnt answer my main question. How much No2 can that set-up take with reasonable likely hood to last 7 months to a year? And would I be better or going with a two stage system? One shot of the line and one in 2nd gear or something?

As for you making me a good deal. Hey Let me know something. Show me a couple kits you think would be good for me. PM me, or e-mail me. DarthIROC@yahoo.com

in all honesty,there isnt an answer to how much it could take.

i'd say 175-200 would be it with 13:1 cause that is gonna beat on the parts you want to use. the parts you want to use are good for a budget build,but not great for a killer nitrous race setup.

Friend of mine has a stock block 406 in his 3rd gen,runs 10.3x with a 150 hit and it's 9.5:1. was originally built for a blower.

Originally posted by RacinLT1
in all honesty,there isnt an answer to how much it could take.

i'd say 175-200 would be it with 13:1 cause that is gonna beat on the parts you want to use. the parts you want to use are good for a budget build,but not great for a killer nitrous race setup.

Friend of mine has a stock block 406 in his 3rd gen,runs 10.3x with a 150 hit and it's 9.5:1. was originally built for a blower.

Ok thats cool, I can step it up a bit, with parts, go to Hbeams for Rods, and Ross pistons. Id really like to stay with the 9000 cranks, cause thats a $300 price jump to a 4340, but we will see. The compression I think I may back down to 12.0 too, cause thats what they cam recoments. On a side note do you think thats enough cam or should I go a bit higher?

Im more worried about the block because of the siamazed bores. I had read the 400 cant take that much nitrous. How much can it take. Its a 2 bolt. But I can get milodon caps and get them splayed if needed.

And if a 175-200 could be safely ran, would it be enough to reach my goals? Also How upgradable are N02 systems. Say if I bought that system I linked, would it possible a couple of months later to upgrade it to thier similar dual stage system, whithout having to buy the whole new $600+ kit?

I think a 175-200 shot could easily get you to your goals as long as the rest of combo is set up to work with your motor. I can't speak for the other nitrous companies but as for NX thier horse power ratings are at the wheel. I wont try to guess what your engine will make n/a but I am sure it would be more than 400hp at the wheel so just using that number plus a 200 hp shot of nitrous you are looking at 600hp at the wheel! As far as upgrading a nitrous system, like I said I don't know much about the TNW system but I think any nitrous system is upgradable but you would come out better(cheaper) buying the bigger system to start with then tyring to upgrade one. You could start with a bigger system and just jet it down to start with. I sent you mail on the NX systems that are comparable to the kit you linked to. Thanks

If you sent mail I didnt get any :( Must have mistyped the address or something.

I resent the email, let me know if you don't get it this time. Thanks

No man Im not getting it. Maybe try sending me a private message instead?

Sorry about that. You have a PM. Thanks

I would suggest going with H beam rods which you are at it. You can get a set of scat H beam rods for right at 360 dollars from www.flatlanderracing.com rated to 600 horsepower i believe.

Originally posted by 12Second3rdgen
I would suggest going with H beam rods which you are at it. You can get a set of scat H beam rods for right at 360 dollars from www.flatlanderracing.com rated to 600 horsepower i believe.

Well they didnt say what they were rated at. I guess I would have to call them, cause they didnt list mass of the rods, if they were clearanced, or if they were bushed or pressed either. I like the price though. Eagle's H-beams are almost $150 more.

in response to the block,we have had issues with my roomates 3rd gen.
It went through 2 stock blocks. first setup was a nitrous motor,but that was more of a bearing issue.
2nd was with a blower,the block cracked around the 640rwhp mark,and this was after 1 season. Block had been prepped,but wasnt filled,which i think would greatly help the factory 400 block.

He now has a Little M block and there is NO comparison.

Originally posted by RacinLT1
in response to the block,we have had issues with my roomates 3rd gen.
It went through 2 stock blocks. first setup was a nitrous motor,but that was more of a bearing issue.
2nd was with a blower,the block cracked around the 640rwhp mark,and this was after 1 season. Block had been prepped,but wasnt filled,which i think would greatly help the factory 400 block.

He now has a Little M block and there is NO comparison.

Where did the block crack? From my research Ive noticed the 400s like to crank right around the steam holes. And by filled I take it you mean, like Hardblok or something?

Plus if the nitrous block was a bearing, issue and the 2nd one was a blower and it really cracked, maybe I wouldnt have a problem. Because with a blower its getting that 640 hp stress alot more than mine would. I figure with shortblock, cam and heads I wanna go with it should spit out around 450 hp, and about 500 ft/lbs on the motor. Then around a 175 shot. Or a a dual 75-100 shot then 125-175.

Either way I will take my chances, cause working part time as a college student an aftermarket block really isnt an option. And Im only 19 whats one blown motor. Wouldnt be the first time and Im sure not the last time it will happen :D

the blower motor cracked in the middle of the cylinder,it just split,we believe it had to do with cylinder pressure and the already thin walls. and nitrous creates a ****ton on cylinder pressure.

Originally posted by RacinLT1
the blower motor cracked in the middle of the cylinder,it just split,we believe it had to do with cylinder pressure and the already thin walls. and nitrous creates a ****ton on cylinder pressure.

So might I make it alot safer by using a slightly dished piston and sticking to 10.5:1 or so compression?

Seems like Ive seem pistons specifically designed for nitrous applications. Who makes good ones?