Z28 VS M3 Roadster

So I was driving up the NJ turnpike going about 85 cruising, there was no one on the road. All of a sudden this M3 Roadster with this ritzy looking guy driving it starts to ride my ass. It had to be a 2002, I think that was the last year. Then he pulls around me and takes off. So I mashed the pedal. I started pulling away from him farther and farther. And when I looked in the rear view mirror he was a least 4 car lengths behind me. So I looked at the speedo and I was going 135mph, so I backed off because I saw cars in the distance. Then a little ways down the road this guy does it again, so we started racing again, and again I destroyed him. I decided I proved my self so I took it easy from there on. It was funny because eventually he drove by me and I looked over at him and laughed. It was great. I was proud that my $12,000 car wooped his $60,000 car. I have to say I was a little surprised because those cars are fast as hell, especially top end, and I have a A4 and he has and M6. It was a good victory for the LS1 f-body.

lol $60000? where u get that number from?...

must of been the 240hp 2000 model, the new lastest one had 333 hp and does 1/4 mile 13 flat and could get into the 12s...

It was brand new! It pulled hard. And why are you trying to talk it down. Shouldn't you be happy for an f-body victory. Also the M3 roadster all come with the 333hp M3 engine or whatever its, not 240hp.

I checked BMW.com and the price for a used 2002 M3 roadster is $58,000

Nice kill, the LS1 is an awesome engine. The General really did his homework on it. I'd think the cars should be pretty equal, I wonder if the guy was in the right gear? Anyway, nice kill!

Rich Krause

LS1 Motorsports Lid, Granatelli MAF, Smooth Bellow, FTRA, SLP Loudmouth, Hypertech Programmer, 160 Thermostat

A high geared LS1 A4 with these wholesome mods and some of you don't think that could happen?

Nice kill.

lol $60000? where u get that number from?...

Obviously 1998__Z/28 didn't pull that number from your ass. (Which is the source from where you seem to be getting all of your information) The price of a new M3 is around 60 K.

must of been the 240hp 2000 model, the new lastest one had 333 hp and does 1/4 mile 13 flat and could get into the 12s...

Actually the new M3's normally runs 13.3-13.6. That's very similar to what an LS1 runs. However, I think the trap speed would be more important in this race because it is from a roll. The M3 traps around 105, around the same as an LS1 F-Body. The F-body and M3 have similar weights. Stock they also have similar horsepower. Now 1998_Z/28's car has mods, they could make all the difference.

LT1PWNZU, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't even think there was an M3 Model in 2000. If the car looked like a new M3, then it did infact have a 333hp Inline 6. You should be able to tell the difference between the 2 generations. And another thing, if it was the 240 hp version that he raced, he would have beat it by alot more than 4 car lenghts.

can u read numbers? the price for a new M3 is $45,500 not the M roadster.. they dont sell the M Z3 Roadster anymore. Anyways, the 2001-02 Z3 M Roadster has more power than a SS and weighs bout 400lbs less does 13s and 12s with ease ( its faster than a M3 Coupe which does 13.3-13.6s like u said). The models before that has the indentical exterior and chassis just diff engine and gearbox, so its possible he got confused with the 98 model, which runs high 13s just like an SS and only has 240 hp. And now that i read his sig, saw the mods it may be possible for him to win against a 2001-02 M Roadster, but NOT by the extreme measures he indicated. Sorry, but its the truth.

Stop trying to be a know it all. I now what car a raced and I now it was a 2001-02 M3 Roadster, I know what they looks like. I don't understand what you are trying to prove, you weren't there and you didn't see it. So why do you keep acting like you know more than everyone here. I was just trying to report a nice kill, like everyone else on this board, not talk myself up and act like I'm all that. I'm a huge fan of american muscle and trying to show some pride for it. I'm sorry but your just acting like an a$$.

alright alright, sorry man.. im just pissed i dont have a LS1 bulgin out of my cars hood. Good kill, u deserved it bro.

There are no 2002 M3 Roadsters. Only M3 Coupes and Convertibles. If it was a M3 Convertible and if he was really racing you, he should have either even or faster than you. These cars (M3s) are really come alive after 100 mph.

thats what i said, 2001 not 2002 Roadster the Z4 replaced the Z3

What did you exactly raced? There is no such thing as M3 Roadster. There is however M-Roadster which is based on Z3 (not Z4). M-Roadsters don't get the same 333-340 hp M3 engines. Similar engine but less horsepower.
You might beat or hang with the M-Roadster on a straight highway. But, they will destroy our F-Bodies on a roadcourse (twisties) with better weight, weight distribution and brakes.

Originally posted by Bora
But, they will destroy our F-Bodies on a roadcourse (twisties) with better weight, weight distribution and brakes.

Oh god, I was waiting on someone to say that...............

AHHHHHHHhh it's teh twisti3ss!!!!!!!!11

DO YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!
HERE'S ONE LINK: http://www.car-prices-costs.com/BMW-M-Roadster-2002.html

ANOTHER ONE: http://www.123review.com/reviews/bmw/02_bmw_z3_intro_lineup.html

PLAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE PART WHERE IT SAYS 315HP. I MIGHT HAVE BEEN ON THE PRICE BUT WHO CARES, THE POINT IS THAT I RACED THE CAR I SAID I DID.

OH YEAH NEXT TIME YOU A$$HOLES POST SOME KILL I'M GOING TO RIP EVERY OUNCE OF IT TO SHREDS LIKE YOU DID TO MINE. I'VE NEVER FLET SO INSULTED. HOESTLY IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW SO MUCH MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE TO THINK THAT YOU KNOWN WHAT SOMEONE SAW WHEN YOU EVEN WEREN'T THERE, THAN YOU MUST BE A WHOLE LOT SMARTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE ON THE BOARD:bow:. SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO START UP YOUR ON MESSAGE BOARD FOR IGNORANT A$$HOLES KNOW IT ALLS LIKE YOURSELF.
WHY THE F*** ARE YOU EVEN BRINGING THAT UP! DID I SAY I BEAT THE M RAODSTER ON A ROAD COURSE MORON, I DON'T THINK I DID, SO WHO GIVES SH!T. I REALLY DON'T GET IT, ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED OR SOMETHING

Originally posted by 1998__Z/28
It was funny because eventually he drove by me and I looked over at him and laughed. It was great. I was proud that my $12,000 car wooped his $60,000 car.

i'm certain that the bmw driver bought his car specifically for straight-line street racing.:rolleyes:

you guys are so queer. Who cares if he didn't buy the car for straight line racing, he got his ass handed to him after tailing an f-body and trying to pass it. Who cares that his car can outhandle an f-body, then he should have tried to pass on a windy road. I'm sorry you're so angry that a bmw got smoked, get used to it.

Good kill, but why the hell are you getting your panties all in a bunch if someone doubts it? Dude it's the freakin the internet, let it slide. If you've "never felt so insulted" from a computer post, I'd hate to see how you would deal with a face-to-face confrontation. :p

you guys are right, the bimmer driver should kill himself.

teh tWistiES PWn teH f-bOdy!

lol... as if fbods can't be made to handle. :rolleyes:

Yeah I didn't really mean to get that pissed, kinda was having a bad day already and just vented. But seriously they are just pissed cause the M got smoked.

I get so tired of hearing the damn import guys "well the BMW would have pwned him in the twisties"......... Seriously, STFU. The BMW instigated this race, on a straight road, and got handled. Plain and simple. Even then, the guy that drives that BMW has probably never been to an autocross or open track event anyway!!! Quit getting so butthurt, wankers!!!

Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
I get so tired of hearing the damn import guys "well the BMW would have pwned him in the twisties"......... Seriously, STFU. The BMW instigated this race, on a straight road, and got handled. Plain and simple. Even then, the guy that drives that BMW has probably never been to an autocross or open track event anyway!!! Quit getting so butthurt, wankers!!!

:Owned: :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
I get so tired of hearing the damn import guys "well the BMW would have pwned him in the twisties"......... Seriously, STFU. The BMW instigated this race, on a straight road, and got handled. Plain and simple. Even then, the guy that drives that BMW has probably never been to an autocross or open track event anyway!!! Quit getting so butthurt, wankers!!!

rofl!

Comparing M3 vs Z28 on the handling department:
I don't know what else does it take to get a Z28 to handle as good as the M3 (aside from all out race modifications). My 2002 M3 (6 speed) is totally stock. My 94 Z28 (also a 6 speed) has Eibach Pro springs, Bilstein HD Shocks, relocated battery, ST 35 mm solid front sway bar, 19 mm 1LE rear bar, LCAs with relocation brackets, adjustable panhard bar. Car has been put on a diet with many extras removed, battery has been relocated to rear passenger side. Corvette Z06 front brakes were added. Kenny Brown Double Diamong sub frame connectors were welded. Car is running on 17" Corvette GS wheels with 275 front 315 rear Dunlops. I still have excess body flex, unpredicted oversteer in addition to all the rough ride and noise. M3 still out brakes and out handles the Z28. Feels solid as it was carved out of single piece of titanium. Drive them both every week.

This is totally unbiased opinion. Just daily experiences..

wasn't there a guy who posted vid's on this board of his 98 1LE (stock suspension modded engine *i think*) running bmw's, porsche's, and vette's in auto x? as i recall he didn't exactly get pwnd 1/\/ d4 t\/\/1st13s!!!!!

when i find the link ill post it.

FastZinTennessee

:bow:

to the original poster, nice kill. price to me is meaningless because expensive is relative to the buyer. but he started it and you finished it.

I got it lets all go over to an M3 board and when someone posts about a Cambird kill in teh t\'\'ist3s...we can all piss and moan and call bull**** and say "well if it was in a straight line from a dig...blah fuggin blah":rolleyes: Who cares if it will win in the turns, i got a 3000 dollar lawnmower that will turn on a dime so I must o\'\'n da t\'\1st3s y0:rolleyes:

To the original poster...good kill bro. I love dusting M3s, ECSPECIALLY when they instigate it:cool:

Originally posted by martinss01
wasn't there a guy who posted vid's on this board of his 98 1LE (stock suspension modded engine *i think*) running bmw's, porsche's, and vette's in auto x?

iirc, it was a 98 1le and his mods were race tires and race pads. he was getting the wave-by from m3's and 911's on some road corse.

bora- imo you should shoot sam strano an email. unless your bilsteins were revalved, they are wrong for the eibachs. and you should have kept the stock rear swaybar. i don't think that the relocation brackets are doing your car much good, either. as for flex, were your subframe connectors welded in with the car's full weight on the suspension? you'll prolly never get all of the flex out of the car, but improperly mounted sfcs won't help your cause much.

a car with a live rear axle is never gonna handle as well as one with irs. however, a properly setup 4th gen can handle quite well.

bora- imo you should shoot sam strano an email. unless your bilsteins were revalved, they are wrong for the eibachs. and you should have kept the stock rear swaybar. i don't think that the relocation brackets are doing your car much good, either. as for flex, were your subframe connectors welded in with the car's full weight on the suspension? you'll prolly never get all of the flex out of the car, but improperly mounted sfcs won't help your cause much.

a car with a live rear axle is never gonna handle as well as one with irs. however, a properly setup 4th gen can handle quite well.
Shocks were valved by Lou Gigliotti, they are supposed to match the Eibach's rate (both front and rear). Subframes were welded at Kenny Brown's shop in Indy. I spent quite of time/money on the car and attended many SCCA events both AutoX and RR. Don't get me wrong, car does handle well. I though that was great, until I moved to Germany 2 years ago and got the M3 there (May 2002). Z28 was in the garage in Ohio. Drove the M3 over a year in Germany (many trips to Hockenheimring) for the purpose it was built for. Many times 175+ mph sustained (155 mph limiter does not kick in). Then I moved back here and trying to enjoy the Z28 but the fun is just not there. I love the Z28 that is why I still have it. I am not some p&^ck M3 owner who is putting down fbodies. I am giving everyone an unbiased opinion. Spend some time behind the M3 for a while (not just a test drive) and then go back to fbody. And I also realize that we are comparing early 80s chassis technology with 2000s technology. Which is not fair. As for waving to let someone pass on the track doesn't necessarily displays the car's handling characteristics. I also waved quite of bit VW Golfs and Fiats on the track and let them pass instead of them barreling at me at the next hairpin.
Thanks for the handling info though. I think I still have that stock rear bar somewhere..

Originally posted by Bora
Shocks were valved by Lou Gigliotti, they are supposed to match the Eibach's rate (both front and rear). Subframes were welded at Kenny Brown's shop in Indy. I spent quite of time/money on the car and attended many SCCA events both AutoX and RR. Don't get me wrong, car does handle well. I though that was great, until I moved to Germany 2 years ago and got the M3 there (May 2002). Z28 was in the garage in Ohio. Drove the M3 over a year in Germany (many trips to Hockenheimring) for the purpose it was built for. Many times 175+ mph sustained (155 mph limiter does not kick in). Then I moved back here and trying to enjoy the Z28 but the fun is just not there. I love the Z28 that is why I still have it. I am not some p&^ck M3 owner who is putting down fbodies. I am giving everyone an unbiased opinion. Spend some time behind the M3 for a while (not just a test drive) and then go back to fbody. And I also realize that we are comparing early 80s chassis technology with 2000s technology. Which is not fair. As for waving to let someone pass on the track doesn't necessarily displays the car's handling characteristics. I also waved quite of bit VW Golfs and Fiats on the track and let them pass instead of them barreling at me at the next hairpin.
Thanks for the handling info though. I think I still have that stock rear bar somewhere..

if you saw these videos (shot from the inside of the 1le), then you would know that he is getting the wave-by because he is cleary lapping faster. and, since that you are very familiar with both m3 and 4th gen, then you prolly know that in a street environment, a properly setup fbod can hang and not be "destroyed" in the twisties like you wrote in one of your previous posts.

i get pretty cranky when ppl say the fbod doesn't handle. all of the chassis mods i have done to mine are simple and not terribly expensive. you just gotta know where to spend your money to get the best out of the car. heck, just springs, shocks and a proper alignment will get you 50% of the way there. :)

This is a camaro website, so there is a camaro bias (as there should be, with honda bias on honda websites, ford bias on a ford forum, etc). So that is to be expected

On the internet in a kills forum, when you beat a nice car, hearing "BS" shouted out to you is also to be expected. I could have said that a modified skyline beat a v-6 camaro that had only 2 sparkplugs and you'll still hear bull**** (or vice versa, ls1 beating a stickered civic) but thats to be expected/

Now for the people complaining about the twisty comments, those shouldn't be used to cut down the original poster (good kill, I'm sure you felt real excited, I would have) but are valid comments in some ways. I'm sure if we talk about how a s2000 beat a z28 on a tight roadcourse, we would all mention how it is a torqueless wonder who couldn't pass an 18 wheeler on the highway without dropping 2 gears.

i think the handling stuff is irrelevant to this post. both cars can be made to handle great and perform at a national level in autocross (FWIW when they are in the same class, SM, the m3 prevails)

however, implying that the more expensive (bmw whatever this guy raced) car sucks because it lost to a cheaper car (f-body) is ridiculous.

1) if someone has the resources to buy a late model m-series bimmer, they also have the resources to figure out that a camaro tends to be a better straight line performer and the resources to buy one. for all we know, that guy had a ss in his garage.

2) a lot (not all) of the people that laugh at beating the more expensive car are the same people that'll say "its still JUST a neon" or will say "well, we still got the better looking car, that thing is a bucket, i'd still take the camaro over it" when an f-body loses to a $3k primered sbc vega

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p8330ae8bca7e9d832e63e6ba5ec4f0ce/fab639c5.jpg

:eek:

We have to end this thread right now, this is gettting so off topic. The point of my story was that he taunted me and I ended up wooping his ass. The car was the car I said it was. And I thought that in a camaro forum people would just laugh because a cheaper car beat the more expensive car, like a beater sleeper car getting taunted by a fast flashy car, and losing. I was hoping for a couple if "nice kill" or "congrats on the win", not all this stupid sidetrack bullsh!t. I'm sorry I even posted in. Enough is Enough. Just let it go.

Well, lately this is just how the kills forum is. If you're not ready to argue about something, don't post a kill!! Not trying to be an ass, but there are asses on here who sidetrack your threads. Just a heads up.

John

In addition to the Z3s, BMW offers the M Coupe and M Roadster. Although these cars are in the M line with the five-seat M3 Coupe and Convertible, they're actually more like Z3s, using the same basic bodywork. If 225 horsepower isn't enough for you from the 3.0-liter Z3, the M is what you want, with a 3.2-liter engine producing a killer 315 horsepower. The Roadster sells for $45,990, including freight; the Coupe retails for $44,990.

-B

For the price difference, I'd expect what you say to be true. Funny thing is, the newer model M3's actually don't handle as well as the model they replaced! Car and Driver named the previous model the "best driving car period"! That's a pretty big distinction.

Jason

Originally posted by Bora
Comparing M3 vs Z28 on the handling department:
I don't know what else does it take to get a Z28 to handle as good as the M3 (aside from all out race modifications). My 2002 M3 (6 speed) is totally stock. My 94 Z28 (also a 6 speed) has Eibach Pro springs, Bilstein HD Shocks, relocated battery, ST 35 mm solid front sway bar, 19 mm 1LE rear bar, LCAs with relocation brackets, adjustable panhard bar. Car has been put on a diet with many extras removed, battery has been relocated to rear passenger side. Corvette Z06 front brakes were added. Kenny Brown Double Diamong sub frame connectors were welded. Car is running on 17" Corvette GS wheels with 275 front 315 rear Dunlops. I still have excess body flex, unpredicted oversteer in addition to all the rough ride and noise. M3 still out brakes and out handles the Z28. Feels solid as it was carved out of single piece of titanium. Drive them both every week.

This is totally unbiased opinion. Just daily experiences..

Dude, this is the net......you're taking it waaayyy to seriously. Also, look at the sigs of the guys posting...most of the guys giving you sh*t don't even own an F body.

Btw, you listed your kill as an M3 roadster (which doesn't exist per se), but posted links to the M Roadster.....2 different cars.

Jason

Originally posted by 1998__Z/28
We have to end this thread right now, this is gettting so off topic. The point of my story was that he taunted me and I ended up wooping his ass. The car was the car I said it was. And I thought that in a camaro forum people would just laugh because a cheaper car beat the more expensive car, like a beater sleeper car getting taunted by a fast flashy car, and losing. I was hoping for a couple if "nice kill" or "congrats on the win", not all this stupid sidetrack bullsh!t. I'm sorry I even posted in. Enough is Enough. Just let it go.

like a beater sleeper car getting taunted by a fast flashy car, and losing.

A Camaro is hardly a "sleeper" car. With the 68 degree swooping windshield, wedge apperance, rear wing, bulged fenders make Camaros flashier than BMWs.

It is all in the individual's perception...

For the price difference, I'd expect what you say to be true. Funny thing is, the newer model M3's actually don't handle as well as the model they replaced! Car and Driver named the previous model the "best driving car period"! That's a pretty big distinction.
Agreed,
I used to own a 1996 328IS. Steering response was excellent. Handled great, then I drove a 1995 318IS. With only 4 cylinders there was not much power (118hp) but handled even better than the 328! Because of the light weight engine. These cars were all stock with BMW handling option. E36 cars are lighter than the E46 cars and handle great. E46 chassis is lot stiffer than E36 and is a better platform for serious suspension. E46 M3 does not have as good steering feel as E36, but it does handle. Car & Driver (or R&D, etc) keep selecting E46 M3 as one of the best cars ever built.

Good kill. :thumb:

I've never been impressed by any of the "M" cars. I hear they're fun to drive though.:D

Originally posted by Beanboy
In addition to the Z3s, BMW offers the M Coupe and M Roadster. Although these cars are in the M line with the five-seat M3 Coupe and Convertible, they're actually more like Z3s, using the same basic bodywork. If 225 horsepower isn't enough for you from the 3.0-liter Z3, the M is what you want, with a 3.2-liter engine producing a killer 315 horsepower. The Roadster sells for $45,990, including freight; the Coupe retails for $44,990.

-B

"Killer" 315hp? Let's see now, there are F-bodies (mine included) that make more than 315hp with just three (out of eight) cylinders. Killer indeed. A stock LS1 about that much hp at the rear wheels.

Nice cars, but hardly "killer" in the hp category.

Rich Krause