turbo or supercharger...

whats the plus sides to turbo....u have lag, where as supercharger u dont ...im debating on what i want to do with my engine..if i want supercharger or if i want to turbo it, ive never seen any1 with a turbocharged camaro, well turbo v8 anything around where i live, and that'd be the unique part, plus i could stop worrying about getting headers, is there a turbo kit that will let it still be my every day driver? for instance comes with all the remounting parts to keep AC and all that? or do you have to forget about ac and all when you get it ...whats safe amount of boost to go with on a stock lt1, and what kinda gains would you be looking at getting?...i watched the 525 hp 600 torq video and...it doesnt have the extreme blow off like a eclipse gsx that'd be what i'd want...can you have that with camaros or no?

Turbo is the way to go, and yes you can have the blow-off sounds if you want...just have to put on a loud blow-off, like an HKS SSQV, or Tial 6 port.

Jose

whats the deal on increasing boost...at 1500 rpms u only have 3-4? and then 5000 or 6000 u have 8 or 9?...but supercharger u have 8 psi from idle basicly till u let off...or does turbo kick to max boost faster than that?

and what kinda boost would u wanna run on stock lt1? ...sense i have 100k miles would i want to do a rebuild b4 i put her on there? or get dished pistons at least?...i'd prob wanna get 8 or 8.5:1 pistons then i get heads done to put me up 2 9 or 9.5:1 or not smart? leave the heads alone and get higher compression pistons? (higher than 8 or 8.5:1)

A supercharger makes boost based on the speed of the crankshaft(since it spins the impeller). Since a turbo is exhaust driven, it doesn't have a linear curve(straight) and boost will typically increase faster at higher RPMs.

Turbo is definitely the way to go. Little to no lag with a small block because the motor moves more air than a 4-banger of V6.

The BOV sound can be changed like Jose said. Some BOVs are quieter for the stealthy approach, some are loud and let everyone know what you're running.

Like mongse_1 said, a S/C is more linear on boost. With a turbo you can hit peak boost very quickly and hold it over the entire rpm range. As for how much boost on stock motor...well I hear anything below 7-8psi is marginally safe. Doesn't really matter how much boost you run, its still going to need a rebuild if you wanting to make any real hp #'s. For compression...I personally would go 9:1 or below.

Jose

I'm not convinced that turbo is definitely the way to go. You have to look at each situation individually.

A turbo may be the way to go, if you have unlimited funds, and/or the skills to fabricate your own setup. You could go with one of the few kits available, but if you want a monster setup, you'll be peicing your system together. You will aso have a harder time getting it tuned, and will most likely need an aftermarket fi system if you are going for 600+hp. The PTK kit looks good for a LT1 street car.

A supercharger, (and I'm talkin centrifical for LT1's, LS1's) will be cheaper, and easier to install and setup. Vortech and ATI are both good choices. Because of the linear boost, it will be easier to tune, and the stock computer can be used, even on some beastly cars like LJ's. Since the SC kits are more common, and have been out longer, it's easier to find help troubleshooting problems. You can have a BOV on a SC too, and you get that cool whine.


Either system on a built motor can can provide enough power to render street tires useless at 65mph. Either system will drive pretty much like stock, and isn't really noticed, till you mash the gas.

If I was trying to build a car to break all the LT1 records, and had 1.5 craploads of cash to do it with, and the skill and time to put it together, I'd go big single turbo. But then again, the records that'd I would be trying to break have been set by SC'd cars.

For the cheap (well, at least cheaper) and easier setup, on a street car I'm just looking to have lots of fun with, and still be faster than 99% of the cars on the road, I'll take a SC.

but can i push as much boost with a sc as a turbo?...and just curius (i have a 91 z tuneport with a paxton supercharger..would sound sick with blow off valve

Originally posted by glennxx1
but can i push as much boost with a sc as a turbo?...and just curius (i have a 91 z tuneport with a paxton supercharger..would sound sick with blow off valve

Either can do what is needed. 25lbs sound good? Either a turbo or blower can provide that.

And blowers cant really use a BOV like turbos due, and have the same effect/sound. I've tried it.

Originally posted by glennxx1
but can i push as much boost with a sc as a turbo?...and just curius (i have a 91 z tuneport with a paxton supercharger..would sound sick with blow off valve

Boost is boost, it doesn't matter how you obtain it. There are guys running 30 pounds of boost around here (Houston) on S/C's. Anything is possible with the right equipment and enough money.

The tubro will be more work in the long run and most likely cost more too. It does have a few advantages over a blower but if you going to have a forced induction car your going to put up big numbers any way you do it. Provided that you have a forged bottom end and a fuel system. Do you have any real power goals? With all the tubro threads going around you probably want one of them. But I wouldn't rule out a sc too quick. There are so much more popular and easier to get tuned. I am not sure about your mechanical level and the less you have the more money you will be spending at a shop. Read in here for a bit, you will find out what you want to do with your money pretty quick.

i want to basicly run 10.5-11 and it be my every day car...that is my goal

You'll have a lot of money sank into it if you want to run 10.xx and drive it everyday. If those are the goals, I'd consider nitrous.

One other thing that I do like about turbochargers over superchargers is the lack of stress on the cranksnout by the turbo. The belt on a high-boost setup will put quite a bit of stress on a crank. Even at 12#, I was running a double keyed crank hub.

Originally posted by kmook
And blowers cant really use a BOV like turbos due, and have the same effect/sound. I've tried it.

When I let off the gas coming off of boost, or even at high rpm, my BOV goes "PSSHHHHHHHHHHHH" I think it sounds badass, many people agree. I haven't heard anyone say they didn't like it. You musta done something wrong.

single turbo system runs off of 1 header or is at the y pipe? does turbo need to cool after you'v run it hard? or is that waht innercooler is for?

Turbo is the way to go. You can choose how much boost you want with the flip of a switch. You can run 5 psi to wheel around town, then flip to 20 (if you want) when somebody pulls up next to you and wants to run.

We need to coin a new term called Supercharger Lag. Cause every centrifugal supercharger has it. Why do people think they will get full boost at idle from a supercharger? And then go buy a centrifugal supercharger? If you want full boost at any rpm put a 6-71 on it. Don't think you are going to get it from an ATI or Procharger or Vortech. They have LAG clear to redline and fall on their face with every shift. If you want to run any more than 10 or 12 psi you will tear the hub off your crank and smoke your belt. I've run almost every kind of supercharger, blower, turbo, NOS, you name it for over 20 years, and I'm sold on turbos.

Our STS turbo kit bolts on with no modifications in about 3 hours and we put down 522 RWHP and 620 RWTQ with stock heads, stock cam, stock fuel system, stock computer, automatic trans and 2.73 gears - With our basic system and our methanol injection system. Car drives like stock, gets about 30 mpg, goes about 200 mph, and runs 11's at very high elevation. Whole setup is only $3500. You can get up Saturday morning, put it on, and drive to lunch with way more streetable power than you can imagine.

That is my 2 cents. Actually, now that I have read it again it sounded more like about 6 cents.:)

Good Luck with your project, Rick @ STS

Originally posted by TimbrSS
When I let off the gas coming off of boost, or even at high rpm, my BOV goes "PSSHHHHHHHHHHHH" I think it sounds badass, many people agree. I haven't heard anyone say they didn't like it. You musta done something wrong.

LOL, yeh it *can* be done but i did a lot of research and talked to many people on here, and tried a few things myself. In the end you still need to run a bypass valve for idle or part throttle conditions unless you are pullied for low boost and dont worry about blower surge. So you have to get the bypass and blow off valves to work in conjunction and it is alot more dificult that just welding on a BOV on a turbo setup and your done.

And if yours was simple, i have 10 people that will say their setup wasnt :p

This debate is too old. Do a search and you will see that both systems have their advantages. I can say accurately that install, support, and tuning will be much easier with an S/C, but cool factor, and the low end torque factor is much more with a turbo. It all depends on your situation. You can't argue S/C vs. Turbo power wise because the turbo will always win. They make boost so low that the low end torque, especially on a SBC is gut-wrenching to say the least. Ask for dyno charts from any of the big turbo guys (INTIMID8, JordonMusser, Brady etc. etc.), they will tell you =) You can see that although a turbo makes more power, I opted for a supercharger because it is so much easier to tune. You can go big blower by using a stock PCM and an impedance converter box for low impedance injectors. And besides, it's not like a supercharged car is slow, just in comparison =)

A blowoff valve releases pressure in the intake stream when you close the throttle. So with a turbo when you shift (taking your foot off the throttle) the turbo is still spinning with only drag from the bearings to slow it down so the sound of the blowoff valve is quite loud. With a supercharger once you close the throttle RPM's start heading down so not as much air is pushing through hence you won't get that same sound. I thought it would be cool but I found out it wouldn't work =)

If we had available some nasty twin screw superchargers for our cars then... Honestly.. I wouldn't go the Turbo route...

A lot more heat on the engine... The advantage of the Turbo is that they spin at 130k+rpm and that dampens some vibration and such... the only way centrifugals will work correctly is if they design a smaller turbo that will sping those crazy rpms.. and I have never figured why they havent done it that way... too much rpm for a gear driven setup??? Have you seen an S-trim size?? it looks like a turbine that will support 1000-1200HP from a turbo.. but since it spins at half the speed it yields more or less half the power or a bit more...

Its a lot of hassle the turbo although with more and more kits comming out I think its another choice.. but still.. 6500 for a twin turbo setup... WOW... a lot of dough... when a supercharger kits can be had for 4000.

I agree that the turbo gives the punch and low end torque that the nitrous gives and the centrifugal doesn't... but after racing for awhile, specially on the street, who cares? It will still make awesome power and make the necessary boost down low.. .WIth the size and power we are shooting for it will break loose the tires A LOT Easier than a centrifugal S/C would and when racing on the street you will need sticky, very sticky tires, although you do get the boost change with the flick of a switch, but I do say one thing... OK>.. you can change boost on the fly.. will you be doing that all the time... you'll have to experiment and tune with that too... A very good computer system is needed since the fuel requirements iwll not be the same when at different boost levels... And besides.. when a honda steps near.. what are you going to do??? ah run with the 5psi.. he beats you because he has a h22 swap and a huge turbo, what are you going to say?? Hey.. let me up my boost a moment??? If you run too much boost you break loose a LOT easier and the car is harder to control...

ON pump gas on the street which is where a street car should be.. I dont think there is much of a difference in total power and the advantage of boost down low may be detrimental to traction... and I also feel that if not setup properly the turbo might loose on the TOP TOP end??? That i Dont know... but the supercharger always has a lot of power on the top end (high speed)...

this is all said in favor of a supercharged car, since maybe I own one and 2) I think its the better choice for the streetable daily driver...

On the track... the boost down low from the turbo will simply KILL YOU if you have the same peak HP ORRR same max boost... The only way to overpower the boost down low with a centrifugal is to have a lot more cubic inches or a positive displacement supercharger.... Compare curves from a cobra 03 with a twin screw and a centrifugal with a 383.. .very similar if you ask me...

Feel free to disagree.

there's no debate...

what do Formula 1 cars use?

honda had one that made like 800 hp, but it was like a 2.0 liter v8.

turbo.

superchargers can make great power no one claims other wise.

it's just turbos ALWAYS make more Torque, hence more power.

"Given equivalent vehicles, the turbo would easily motor away from the centrifugal in an acceleration contest......The turbo offered massive midrange torque production, the only system to exceed 600 lb-ft. Need more convincing? At 4,000 rpm, the turbo was more than 100 lb-ft. stronger than either the Roots or centrifugal."

- Battle of the Boost, Hotrod Magazine, August 2003.

^the turbo wasn't even intercooled. ROOTS was last.

that's why u see turbo-diesels and not supercharged diesels.

BELTs?

even worse belt slip?

SCREW superchargers are infeirior to centrifugal.

they make less torque and power that both a centrifugal and Turbo.

there's no argument.

u can go from 5- 25 PSI with a switch.

ultimate Streetability..Sueprchargers don't always promess this.

the OUTLAW mustangs have long shown the power of turbos.

For an f-bod...if u want serious power turbo it is.

SC, migth have cheaper stickers.. rigthly so, ebcause they are inferior.

as far as top end...

did everyone forget the SLEDGEHAMMER corvette?

need more torque ??? which power adder makes the most toruqe ?? yes .. my dearly beloved friend, NITROUS :D ... thats what im gonna run on a window switch to supply the bottome end torque that my centrifigul might lack ;)

honestly, i think nitrous is the most effective power adder .. i only wish i could have an unlimited supply of it in my trunk :(

a 50 shot of nitrous will net u 100+ ft/lbs of torque at low rpm where u might need it.. and a SC + N2O setup will still be cheaper than a turbo kit and u have ultimate control on how much and where u want the happy juice flowing .. and if happen to stumble upon a massive single turbo Fbody, well flip a switch and bypass the window switch so the happy juice will follow u to 6500 rpm ;)

20 psi boost on the turbo and a 200 shot of NOS. That's where it is at my friend! The NOS is an awesome intercooler too so you get a double bonus:D Don't use it much, but it's always there if I ever need it.

Talk to you later, Rick @ STS
www.ststurbo.com

I dont think the rules of F1 allowed a S/C back then...

It all depends on the combo... it all depends on the setup... most of the time they are not comparable...

But... look at the twin screw mustang cobras 03s!! they are making AWESOME power with not much...

S/C where famous on indy cars...

It all depends on what you do, what you want...

Its a simple thing to do a challenge...

Get a turbo that will flow max air of 1000CFMs and put it on the street with street tires and race from 25-145mph and lets see who wins... on a roll... and pump gas to all...

They all have advantages and disadvantages... The turbos require a more careful tune... They are most affected by cam changes... I tend to like supercharged cars.. .turbos are very inconsistent sometimes... and they are not easy to tune CORRECTLY... and for what i have seen they tend to break more the engine, but, dont quote me on it...

Most people compare a t76 with an S-trim which is not fair...

intimid8 had an S-trim that made 634rwhp and he changed to turbos... what was his 1/4 mile run???

Sleeperz28 I HOPE HE GOES TO THE TRACK SOON!!!, but anyways the fastest LT1 was a 383 with a YS-trim... So.. I dont think they are all inferior.