03 Cobra vs. 99 Z28 Supercharged?

Well i am just bored and i thought about this question. It might be kinda hard to answer and might cause a argument but just asking opinions.

Who do you think would win in the 1/4 on the street?...

03 Cobra w/ all bolt ons including pulley VS. 99 Z28 A4 w/ all bolt ons with a stall and vortech supercharger running 8psi?

If you can hook the Z, I say it takes the win:thumb:. I'd like to think that running 8 psi boost on the LS1 will give it at least ~390 HP, if not more!;) Obviously only a race will tell though:cool:.

If you have pullies on the '03 Cobra like you said then the Cobra would not be easy to beat. An '03 Cobra with all the bolt ons & Pullies will dyno close to 500 RWHP. That would ge a hard # to match with a stock block LS1 with a blower...

not true a stock block bottomed end ls1 can handle well over 500 rwhp.lower the CR and with a good tune even more.


ls1s dont need the same amount of hp to run what a cobra does but to equal its max hp capability itll require extensive internal modifications.

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
not true a stock block bottomed end ls1 can handle well over 500 rwhp.lower the CR and with a good tune even more.


ls1s dont need the same amount of hp to run what a cobra does but to equal its max hp capability itll require extensive internal modifications.

So your saying a Stock LS1 pushing 500rwhp through it via boost will hold up against an '03 Cobra with forged internals pushing 500 rwhp via boost run after run after run? I guess I'd have to see it. I don't see the LS1 making a 1/4 of the WOT runs that a '03 Cobra can on their respected bottom ends. I am an LS1 fan & am amazed by how they perform but they are not bullit proof by any means. Sure it will hold up for a little while but not long enough for the risks IMO.... :)

ask harlan how his TT stock motored ls1 held up.;)

Originally posted by Smokn '94 Z
So your saying a Stock LS1 pushing 500rwhp through it via boost will hold up against an '03 Cobra with forged internals pushing 500 rwhp via boost run after run after run? I guess I'd have to see it. I don't see the LS1 making a 1/4 of the WOT runs that a '03 Cobra can on their respected bottom ends. I am an LS1 fan & am amazed by how they perform but they are not bullit proof by any means. Sure it will hold up for a little while but not long enough for the risks IMO.... :)

I agree and I want to see an internally stock LS-1 make 500+ rwhp with just a blower added. I don't see it happening and the rear end sure as hell is not going to hold up. And while you are at it, add a real blower (KB twin screw) to the Cobra and add any blower you want to the LS-1. While the Cobra is belting out in the neighborhood of 750 rwhp the LS-1 will be spewing parts.
Internally stock Cobras are already in the low-mid 9's in just under a year of production. 7's are probably not that far away on the stock block.

refer to my post.harlans TT firehawk dynoed at 584 RWHP on 100 octane.he drove it for 40k miles and the motor held up fine.totally stock motor.ls1s with lower CR have made much more rwhp on stock bottom end.

ill give another example.rod raymer recently dynoed a %100 stock ls1 with 85k on it @9 psi and it dynoed over 500 hp.i think this paticuliar car had a stall too.key is tuning.general statements saying ls1s with blow up under boost is incorrect.of course it has its limits but they can make power with stock internals.


even things out with a forged bottom end ls1 then compare peak potential.ls6s are no slouches with boost either.


most ls1 builders do prefer to make power running strokers with nitrous however.

03 Cobra... c4 tranny, bolt ons, and a small shot of nitrous 9.59@143 plus ..For a LS1 to run that it would need far more mods, and struggle to stay together like scott already stated

struggle to stay together?does the ls1 running 8s struggling to stay together?as i keep saying and its been proven ls1s will hold up to a reasonable amount of boost if tuned properly.harlan ran a 10.0 with his stock internaled TT ls1 and he drove it everyday and it didnt blow up.


stop kidding yourself an ls1 is overmatched against this car.yes in STOCK form it is but thats where it ends.

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
struggle to stay together?does the ls1 running 8s struggling to stay together?as i keep saying and its been proven ls1s will hold up to a reasonable amount of boost if tuned properly.harlan ran a 10.0 with his stock internaled TT ls1 and he drove it everyday and it didnt blow up.


stop kidding yourself an ls1 is overmatched against this car.yes in STOCK form it is but thats where it ends. So this 8 second LS-1 had stock internals? The original argument was for just a blower to be added with bolt ons and not twin turbos. Modular Mustangs are already in the 7's, it will not take very long for the 03 Cobra to get there as well. Randy Haywod of True Blue performance ran a 7.99 on a 5.4 with stock Lincoln Navigator heads. Now how many LS1's run in the 7's? That's what I thought. Fact of the matter is that the fastest modulars are over a full second faster than the fastest LS-1's, and that's undisputable .

did i say stock internals?i knew he meant that but thats not what he said.but yes theyll make almost as much power with a blower as a turbo on stock internals and itll hold up fine.


who said anything about a 5.4?and it wont take long until ls1s hit 7s too.ls1s will close the gap soon enough.itll most likely be a vette powered ls1 though.maybe not.fbodies are more popular to build.if you think ls1s arent capable of running similar ETs youre kidding yourself.lt1s used to be faster at one time.its called progress.

Originally posted by Smokn '94 Z
An '03 Cobra with all the bolt ons & Pullies will dyno close to 500 RWHP. That would ge a hard # to match with a stock block LS1 with a blower...
How do you figure a 390 HP engine, with a few bolt-ons such as underdrive pullies is going to dyno close to 500 RWHP?!:think: :confused: What other "bolt-ons" are going to add ~100HP?!??:irk: Let's be generous and say that pullies will add 10 RWHP (although I'd say 10 fly-wheel HP is more realistic), if you figure that the factory rating of 390 HP is probably fly-wheel, where does 500 RWHP come from???:rolleyes: Maybe I haven't paid much attention to the Cobras, so maybe they're dynoing 400+ RWHP stock.........I dunno?:confused:

Now would an LS1 with 8 psi of boost plus a few bolt-ons not be putting well over 400 HP to the rear wheels? Maybe even close to 500 RWHP?:think:

I guess I'm just thinking that if the Cobra and Z06 are supposed to be a good match for each other, a stock LS1 with a blower should be able to surpass either one..................maybe not though?:rolleyes:

adding a pulley to an 03 cobra is a different ballgame than on an ls1.hes referring to the blower pulley which ups the cars boost and itll add alot more than 10 hp.

He was talking abou blower pullies - not underdrive pullies.

He was talking abou blower pullies - not underdrive pullies.
Ahhhhhhhh;). OK, 'cause otherwise it made absolutely NO sense to me:thumb:.

5.4 is just an example, 4.6 is closing in on the 6 second zone. The LT-1 has been around all of one year less than the modular, but it is still slower. I am no modular fan but facts are facts.

Ok i knew this was going to start some kind of argument..

Well i wasnt asking which one would hold up or not. I just wanted to know who you guys think would win the race. But in my opinion i think the 03 Cobra would hold up a lot better....i mean i have no blower and really no serious mods and my tranny already went out with 33,000 miles. the original question was not about twin turbo or any internals.

03 Cobra .......smaller pulley, catback, headers, x-pipe, computer chip, and CAI. Estimate = 460rwhp

VS.

99 Z28.........vortech or procharger running 8psi, catback, headers, ORY, LS6 intake, ASP pulley, tuning, fuel pump....
Estimate= ?

Originally posted by redlt1z28
Ok i knew this was going to start some kind of argument..

Well i wasnt asking which one would hold up or not. I just wanted to know who you guys think would win the race. But in my opinion i think the 03 Cobra would hold up a lot better....i mean i have no blower and really no serious mods and my tranny already went out with 33,000 miles. the original question was not about twin turbo or any internals.

03 Cobra .......smaller pulley, catback, headers, x-pipe, computer chip, and CAI. Estimate = 460rwhp

VS.

99 Z28.........vortech or procharger running 8psi, catback, headers, ORY, LS6 intake, ASP pulley, tuning, fuel pump....
Estimate= ?

Cobras with just pulley and chip are putting out 460 rwhp. Add the rest and you are closing in on 500 rwhp. I think it would be close although the LS-1 weighs less.

Which costs more an '03 Cobra or a '99 Z28? I think the Cobra is about $35k and the '99 Z28 can be had for about $15k. That would mean you have $20k to put into quite a few parts for the Z28... lol

Brian

Originally posted by Y2kPewterSS
Which costs more an '03 Cobra or a '99 Z28? I think the Cobra is about $35k and the '99 Z28 can be had for about $15k. That would mean you have $20k to put into quite a few parts for the Z28... lol

Brian If we play this game I get a $2,000 5.0 and kick the crap out of both for less. The question was bolt ons versus bolt ons and blower, not spending 20 grand on one versus a few thousand on another.

I was attempting to make light of this conversation that went dreadfully wrong...

Anyway that was not the original question which is why the conversation diverged so drastically.

You seem to know everything so I'm just gonna leave it at that. I was just trying to make a joke.

Brian

haha.it did go of course but a question like this always turns heated.no hard feelings here.:cool:


i just recently read about a 4.6 that ran a 6 and an ls1 powered fbody running low 8s.:bow:

Originally posted by Y2kPewterSS
I was attempting to make light of this conversation that went dreadfully wrong...

Anyway that was not the original question which is why the conversation diverged so drastically.

You seem to know everything so I'm just gonna leave it at that. I was just trying to make a joke.

Brian

You should put a smilie or something, because I can not read minds, and these arguents about "well you have 20,000 over to mod so and so" have cluttered the lounge and have now spilled over into here apparently. If everyone would stop posting the same sh!t over and over again (this topic has been posted numerous times) then these problems would not crop up.

I put "lol" at the end of the post.

With over 14000 posts yourself, apparently idiots like myself posting things that are completely useless for people like yourself to read is keeping you coming back to the message board. Maybe you can become a moderator and delete the useless comments I have to make. I just come to the message board to enjoy reading everyone's comments (about camaros), but some take it as a good place to display their superiority.

Brian

Originally posted by Y2kPewterSS
I put "lol" at the end of the post.

With over 14000 posts yourself, apparently idiots like myself posting things that are completely useless for people like yourself to read is keeping you coming back to the message board. Maybe you can become a moderator and delete the useless comments I have to make. I just come to the message board to enjoy reading everyone's comments (about camaros), but some take it as a good place to display their superiority.

Brian

Sorry that you apparently have a bug up your ass, that's your problem and not mine. I have been here a long time, nearly 5 years and have seen members come and go. If you see yourself as an idiot, I am not one to argue, but I have not called you a name in this post. If you continue with this attitude and can't take the heat you sure as hell will not last long on this board.

So how do you call the 03 Cobras motor stock? There is not even a single ford part in it. Since when did Ford start making manley H-beam rods? Ford had to put a blower on just to beat the LS1. Sorry to get off the subject (johnny) inside joke. It might be a close race but nothing this blown LS1 cant handle.

Originally posted by NASTY-TA
It might be a close race but nothing this blown LS1 cant handle.
Sweet!:D Someone who's not voting for the damn blue oval!!!:thumb: I agree with you, I think the blown LS1 has a good chance:). I remember when the 390HP Cobra was first coming out and a lot of guys were b!tching 'cause Ford was building a faster car, so guys screamed "...well put a blower on the LS1 and see which car wins then:o..." and yet now there are a bunch of guys here saying the Cobra will probably win?!:confused:

I say LS1 all the way!:bow: (I'm just not gonna throw huge money on this one 'til we find out the final results!:D:lol: ).

Originally posted by NASTY-TA
So how do you call the 03 Cobras motor stock? There is not even a single ford part in it. Since when did Ford start making manley H-beam rods? Ford had to put a blower on just to beat the LS1. Sorry to get off the subject (johnny) inside joke. It might be a close race but nothing this blown LS1 cant handle.

Would you like cheese with that whine? Ford could have gone with the 5.4 from the Cobra R and stomped the piss stock vs. stock out of the LS-1 with no blower and less displacement. Cobra R produces the same HP with no blower and ran 112-113 stock in the R, so your argument holds no water. They weren't going for the LS-1 in the first place, why set your sights on a dead car? It is stock. Last time I checked the block is Fords, the crank is the same Ford crank used in the previous Cobra, the pistons are Fords, the heads are Fords etc. Looks like your argument again hold no water. I guess you consider the 5.0's from 85-92 not stock either since they used TRW pistons? This has to be one of the most retarded arguments I have ever heard on this board, and it is funny as usual to see LS-1 owners whine and cry like little rice boys "whaaa, they had to put a blower to beat my LS-1, whaaaaaaaaa
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Get over it already.

Originally posted by Capn Pete
Sweet!:D Someone who's not voting for the damn blue oval!!!:thumb: I agree with you, I think the blown LS1 has a good chance:). I remember when the 390HP Cobra was first coming out and a lot of guys were b!tching 'cause Ford was building a faster car, so guys screamed "...well put a blower on the LS1 and see which car wins then:o..." and yet now there are a bunch of guys here saying the Cobra will probably win?!:confused:

I say LS1 all the way!:bow: (I'm just not gonna throw huge money on this one 'til we find out the final results!:D:lol: ).

Again apples vs. oranges. When people replied with the 99-01 Cobras that all you needed was gears to run side by side with an LS-1, people whined and cried that all that mattered was stock versus stock. Funny how the shoe changes foot when the LS-1 is no longer king. People seem to equate the fact that being slower means inferior, an argument most grown up people know better than. Fact of the matter is that when you start modding all bets are off and whoever has the most money will most likely win, which in reality does not prove a damn thing. Fastest Cobra is already in the mid 9's and in the mid 150's with the entire stock engine block, apparently the guy had money.

Who really cares if my cup is full of holes i can still drink out of it. I know with money all bets are off. What i dont understand is why does a Mustang guy feel that he has to hang out on a GM car based site just to protect a car he doesnt even own????????? Whos whining. I run with the new Cabro's just fine. Bolt on for Bolt on. So what... who really cares..... i just like stirring $h!t thats the only reason i even registeredand to say whats up to my friend Johhny who started this thread. I really do laugh when i see how this really gets peoples underwear all up in a bunch. Laterz

The new cobras seem to be very nice hp numbers with et's that don't really back up the power. Example, bone stock 03's are supposed to be 340-350 at the wheels (mustang dyno). I have seen at least a dozen run at the track w/ a few bolt-ons and they can't trap over 110. My car put 350 at the wheels and did 112+ w/ a messed up tranny. I should see 115 once I get one in there that works. Also, there was a video floating around of an 03 cobra with 450 rwhp (dynojet) against a bone stock 47x flywheel hp (I think) amg 55. The amg is clearly heavier and must have less hp at the wheels but why does it beat the 03 cobra? The 03's put nice dynos down but I haven't seen many back up those great numbers. That's also a trend I see with any supercharged car. For some reason, a supercharged car putting 500rwhp will always lose to an all motor car putting out 500rwhp. Power under the curve? I have no idea I'm just telling you guys the trends I see after watching many many races. I'd rather build an 03 cobra than ls1 because not having to mess w/ the bottom-end is a huge plus! The 03's bottom end rivals the inline 6 from the supra as far as reliability and ability to hold big power. Can't knock that!

Originally posted by ltlhomer
Power under the curve?

I agree I have noticed that supercharged and twin turbo cars that boast peak HP must have a lower HP curve overall. It might come down to the fact that the peak HP gain is usually at higher RPM than n/a. Anyway, area under the power/RPM curve probably equates pretty well to track performance given that the vehicles get equal traction. At Milan everyone gets equally no traction...

Interesting that Ford had to put a blower on their car to finally beat up on LS1's. If GM has put a blower on the f-body it would have went to a strong bottom end also for duribility. :D (smiley just for you scott, sorry I took your earlier comments as derogatory towards me when apparently that was not your intention, you just lack tact)

Brian

Originally posted by NASTY-TA
Who really cares if my cup is full of holes i can still drink out of it. I know with money all bets are off. What i dont understand is why does a Mustang guy feel that he has to hang out on a GM car based site just to protect a car he doesnt even own????????? Whos whining. I run with the new Cabro's just fine. Bolt on for Bolt on. So what... who really cares..... i just like stirring $h!t thats the only reason i even registeredand to say whats up to my friend Johhny who started this thread. I really do laugh when i see how this really gets peoples underwear all up in a bunch. Laterz

And I have to wonder why a newbie with 2 posts who doesn't know jack Sh!t about me is making WRONG assumptions. I have owned 3 f-bodies and I still own 3 GM vehicles. If your best reply is "you shouldn't be here" then it shows how really sad this board has become. No one can make an argument based on facts, all they can do is whine:rolleyes:

Originally posted by ltlhomer
The new cobras seem to be very nice hp numbers with et's that don't really back up the power. Example, bone stock 03's are supposed to be 340-350 at the wheels (mustang dyno). I have seen at least a dozen run at the track w/ a few bolt-ons and they can't trap over 110. My car put 350 at the wheels and did 112+ w/ a messed up tranny. I should see 115 once I get one in there that works. Also, there was a video floating around of an 03 cobra with 450 rwhp (dynojet) against a bone stock 47x flywheel hp (I think) amg 55. The amg is clearly heavier and must have less hp at the wheels but why does it beat the 03 cobra? The 03's put nice dynos down but I haven't seen many back up those great numbers. That's also a trend I see with any supercharged car. For some reason, a supercharged car putting 500rwhp will always lose to an all motor car putting out 500rwhp. Power under the curve? I have no idea I'm just telling you guys the trends I see after watching many many races. I'd rather build an 03 cobra than ls1 because not having to mess w/ the bottom-end is a huge plus! The 03's bottom end rivals the inline 6 from the supra as far as reliability and ability to hold big power. Can't knock that!

The Cobra is very heavy. Best time I have heard of for a bone stock one was with Evan Smith driving, a 12.43 at 113. He took off the sway bar and removed some dead weight and it cracked the high 11's at 116 on DR's, but you have to remember that this guy is an expert driver.

Originally posted by Y2kPewterSS


Interesting that Ford had to put a blower on their car to finally beat up on LS1's. If GM has put a blower on the f-body it would have went to a strong bottom end also for duribility. :D (smiley just for you scott, sorry I took your earlier comments as derogatory towards me when apparently that was not your intention, you just lack tact)

Brian

I just have a low tollerance for bullsh!t, especially the past few weeks with all that has happened to me. The only one I have had any derogatory feelings for in this thread is MR. 2 post questioning me being here.

Just like i said i only posted this to get a rise out of you...... for ****s and giggles.......... I didnt mean any harm by what i said... I only have 2 posts on here becaus ei never post here...... i just did becaus emy friend that started this post was over at my house. Man its amazing how personel people take these things.......... its only words..... and who really cares.......

I could care less about which one is faster, it's just hilarious seeing the LS-1 guys getting bent out of shape when the '03 Cobra is mentioned and saying " a stang guy shouldn't be here" when they have no comeback.

Originally posted by scott9050
Again apples vs. oranges. When people replied with the 99-01 Cobras that all you needed was gears to run side by side with an LS-1, people whined and cried that all that mattered was stock versus stock. Funny how the shoe changes foot when the LS-1 is no longer king.
I'll admit, I know very little about Mustangs, and their history. I've held a general assumption that they've been slower than Camaros (on average) ever since Camaros were built (with only a few exceptions, like maybe the old Cobra Jet 429's, or maybe a few years of the 5.0L days when the L98's weren't the best 350 SB that Chevy ever built:rolleyes: ).

While I don't think I fall under the "whiny LS1 owner" category, I must admit that I find it *a little* funny that Ford had to resort to a blower just to make more power out of their 4.6L when GM is already pushing over 400 HP with the LS6:p. Like I said though, I don't know much about Ford's engine inventory, so maybe the 5.4L Cobra-R engine is more powerful already N/A?:confused: BUT, I don't think the Cobra-R is mass produced like the Z06 is?:think: (or is it?!:confused: ).

Also, I realize that I'm not comparing the Cobra to the LS1 anymore, but I still think that an LS1 with a blower bolted on should be VERY competitive with an '03 Cobra, especially since LS1's are already into the 12's with minimal mods above and beyond simply traction mods!;)

oh man now you did it.ill check back in a little while to see what respones you got from that remark. :D

ls1 no longer king?whats a z06?yes,its an ls1 derived motor and yes it beats a cobra.


please dont respond by saying it costs more or its not in its class BS.its GMs fastest production car beating fords fastest production car.game over.:D

Originally posted by scott9050
And I have to wonder why a newbie with 2 posts who doesn't know jack Sh!t about me is making WRONG assumptions. I have owned 3 f-bodies and I still own 3 GM vehicles. If your best reply is "you shouldn't be here" then it shows how really sad this board has become. No one can make an argument based on facts, all they can do is whine:rolleyes:

its the same thing over at svtperformance.com. some guy actually asked who all wanted to ban all NON FORD driving users. everywhere has a little bias toward their maker. its ok until it starts HUGE flame wars. what people need to understand is that without the mustang's who would us f-body owners have to beat(lol, j/k) and vice versa

Originally posted by Capn Pete
).

Like I said though, I don't know much about Ford's engine inventory, so maybe the 5.4L Cobra-R engine is more powerful already N/A?:confused: BUT, I don't think the Cobra-R is mass produced like the Z06 is?:think: (or is it?!:confused: ).

The argument was that Ford HAD TO put a blower on to compete with the LS-1, which is simply not true. Cobra owners in large numbers put blowers on their cars. Ford just went ahead and put the entire package into one for sale on the showroom floor, some of that being the heat from the tuner cars beating Fords best offerings. The Cobra was deliberately kept down in power to meet with noise requirements. The exaust is very restrictive, the single screw blower is not the best etc. An example of what Ford can do is their 5.0 DOHC crate engine, 415 hp from a stroked 4.6. This is available in their performance catalog. Ford has been known for years to put out an underpowered engine only to rake in the cash selling high performance parts to enthusiasts through their aftermarket operations. For example, soon after the 96 GT came out Ford released the PI heads and intake combo,a combo which should have been on the car from the factory. Now they release revised cams and a diferent intake since the Romeo heads bumped the power up to 260 on the GT. I personaly believe that the Cobra is not meant to beat any GM product, I believe that the intention was to send the current platform out with a bang in it's final year (was supossed to be replaced in 04, pushed back to 05).

[quote]
Also, I realize that I'm not comparing the Cobra to the LS1 anymore, but I still think that an LS1 with a blower bolted on should be VERY competitive with an '03 Cobra, especially since LS1's are already into the 12's with minimal mods above and beyond simply traction mods!;) [quote]

I agree totally, but you are still going to have issues pushing the boost on the LS-1 eventually. Why GM didn't put forged internals into such a powerful engine I will never know.

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
ls1 no longer king?whats a z06?yes,its an ls1 derived motor and yes it beats a cobra.


please dont respond by saying it costs more or its not in its class BS.its GMs fastest production car beating fords fastest production car.game over.:D
Uhmmmm, Fords fastest production car is the GT, which by all accounts should rape a Z06. The whole thing is silly, buying speed has never impressed me. Someone who can build a car to be fast has my total respect.

Originally posted by 95_LT1_Z
its the same thing over at svtperformance.com. some guy actually asked who all wanted to ban all NON FORD driving users. everywhere has a little bias toward their maker. its ok until it starts HUGE flame wars. what people need to understand is that without the mustang's who would us f-body owners have to beat(lol, j/k) and vice versa

SVTPERFORMANCE is a bunch of retards then. Honestly this is one of the reasons that I rarely visit the Mustang sites unless I have a tech question. That and the fact that I want another 3rd gen eventually. It's not practical living in a lake effect snow belt.

Originally posted by scott9050
Why GM didn't put forged internals into such a powerful engine I will never know.
It's probably along the same lines as what you said about Ford and how they built the Mustang. They didn't put the "best" of everything on the car from the factory, so the door is still open for owners to come back and upgrade the parts to higher performance, stronger parts. I know that GM is far from being "perfect", and it's probably just a pi$$ing contest to try and determine who is better between GM and Ford. Each of them have their own marketing strategies and what not. I actually wish GM would have had the sense to market and advertise the F-bodies the way that Ford advertises the Mustang:(. Why did they suddenly end a (healthy;)) 35 year rivalry?:rolleyes:

At the end of the day though, I still like going to the track with my relatively stock car, and blowing the doors off the average Mustang that shows up, whether it's an old 5.0L, or a newer GT!:D And EVEN a new Cobra would need a good driver, cause otherwise the run can still be close...........I've seen cars capable of 12's only run in the 13's before;).

Originally posted by scott9050
Would you like cheese with that whine? Ford could have gone with the 5.4 from the Cobra R and stomped the piss stock vs. stock out of the LS-1 with no blower and less displacement. Cobra R produces the same HP with no blower and ran 112-113 stock in the R, so your argument holds no water. They weren't going for the LS-1 in the first place, why set your sights on a dead car? It is stock. This has to be one of the most retarded arguments I have ever heard on this board, and it is funny as usual to see LS-1 owners whine and cry like little rice boys "whaaa, they had to put a blower to beat my LS-1, whaaaaaaaaa
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Get over it already.

IMHO--ALL THINGS CONSIDERED--the '03 Cobra in stock form as a 1/4 mile drag car is a pig. Did you see what I just said? A P-I-G.

In stock form, this car was supposed to be the answer the Ford guys had been waiting for. I'll say it again--the car is a P-I-G. I hear all the talk about how quick the car is and all the one's I've SEEN run anywhere from high 12's to high 13's. I've driven one and raced against one at the Muscle Car Shootout at Brainerd MN. They are not---I repeat---not what everyone from the Ford camp WANTS the car to be for the following reasons (just to name a few):
1. Weight
2. VERY hard to launch--wheelhop
3. Shifter awkward
4. Air induction system VERY restrictive
5. Exhaust VERY restrictive

Whenever a conversation starts about this car, guys from the Ford camp (especially ones that don't own an '03) talk about Evan Smith's 12.43 run at Englishtown. Let's see...a blown 32valve w/forged internals running a 12.43 at Englishtown in cool air where DA is sometimes BELOW sealevel is impressive????? Bring the same car & driver out here to Minn @ 1200ft with average DA of 1800-2500 ft and the car is a 12.80 car at best. Take Evan Smith out of the equation and you're struggling to get a high 12 out of it. Most are low to mid 13's which is about the same as my STOCK LS1 ran.

Last point...from my experience with driving the '03 and recently slaughtering one at BIR, you obviously don't NEED a blower in order to match up with or beat one.

hahaha.i wouldnt say theyre pigs.but they do need alot more hp to run the same ETs as ls1 but its easier and cheaper to make it with them.


but youre correct in saying as i keep saying that ls1s are not overmatched against these cars.theres plenty of ls1s running with cobras that are NA.once you get into serious HP both cars need extensive alterations to reach their goals.


lets stay away from what ford couldve came out with whatever because then i can say GM couldve came out with a SCed ls1 and stomped ford.whats out is out and live with it.



Z28SSman you have a strong running car with your mods.

FWIW I went to a dyno day today and saw some pretty sweet cars. One was a 2000 cobra w/ bolt-ons and a centrifugal supercharger (I think vortech but I never got to look close). He put down 500 at the wheels! :eek:
Edit: He said he was running 14lbs of boost and it was on the stock bottom-end.

Then, a few newer gt's (99+) all strugled to even break the 200 mark (this is a mustang dyno by the way).

The showstopper was the completely handbuilt by a bunch of fbody guys 94 (or 96 not like it matters) twin turbo 355 camaro. He had a forged bottom-end with afr 220's (ported by TEA) and all the other little goodies. These guys did everything themselves including MAKING all the exhaust components (manifolds, downpipes, etc) as well as all the intake pieces as well. Again, 100% built by people who don't do this thing for a living. On only 11 pounds of boost on pump gas (they haven't turned up the wick to their goal of 18 pounds on a racegas mix and tune) it put down 600 at the wheels! They expect close to 800 once they turn up the boost and load the racegas tune. It is still on the stock computer btw. The numbers were on an m6 car through a 9-inch rear, sae corrected from a MUSTANG dyno. Pretty crazy! Can't wait til the guys turn up the boost and take that car to the track. The kicker is the car looks bone stock from the outside. Open the hood and :eek: :eek: :eek: .

600rwhp on pump gas and low boost :bow: :bow: :bow:

Originally posted by scott9050


Why GM didn't put forged internals into such a powerful engine I will never know. [/B]


GM didn't put forged internals in the LS1 for a few simple reasons. Low revving 0-6500rpm N/A V8 engines do NOT need forged internals running under 500hp. When you mass produce an engine with forged and the same engine with non forged parts there is going to be a HUGE cost difference. If anyone thinks they need forged internals for 350hp N/A they need to get off the crack. Not trying to flame you or anything. I think the s/c motor ford makes is awesome. I just felt like stating that.

Originally posted by ltlhomer



600rwhp on pump gas and low boost :bow: :bow: :bow:


Is that possible? Got a link or anything?

Don't have a link but I saw the car in person and I know the guys who built it personally. Of the other guys who worked on it, one had a stock bottom-end twin-turbo ls1 that put 660rwhp and matching torque before he ripped it apart (Matt Harlan for those of you that know him). It will soon be together I hear and it should be one hell of a beast. I believe he's a moderator at ls1tech or one of the ls1 boards. Joe (stenod) has a 600 rwhp (on racegas mix) twin turbo ss and I think he puts 500+ at the wheels on pumpgas. These guys are very familiar with the turbo cars just by messing around with their own. The guy with the tt lt1 (marcus) still uses stock lt1 intake manifold which is pretty sweet in my book. Honestly, Marcus's car is the sweetest lt1 camaro I have ever seen. Total sleeper and it should go 9's easy once they turn up the boost and throw in some racegas. I'll talk to joe and see if I can get some pics for you guys.