Why not 355?

I've been researching this, and I guess I'm wrong, but can somebody explain why...

When I get my motor built at a later date, I plan on building it for boost (approx. 12-18 psi) and using a Procharger D-1SC. My question is why wouldn't a 355 be a better blower motor than a 383? I would think that since a centrifugal builds boost with rpm, it would make sense to have a higher rpm motor, i.e. smaller cubes. I understand that it will make less lowend torque, but wouldn't the increase in actual psi seen up high make up for that?
Does my theory hold any water, or should I let it sink and start thinking 383?
BTW, my plan is to have a car capable of being a daily driver that will run 10s on 12 psi and 9s on 18.

Your theory certainly holds truth. Like you said, it is good to have a high revving engine to take full advantage of a centrifugal blower. But then, the higher revs will put more stress on the valvetrain etc.. However, I think a blown 383 would be more driver-friendly, so to say, because you don't have to wait as long for boost to kick in due to the torque. So if this is going to be your daily driver, do a 383. If this is a weekend-toy, do a 355. Just my opinion. Good luck.

I don't think it holds water. When people refer to adding more boost, what the goal is to get more airflow into the cylinders. If you simply were going for increasing boost then you could run a much smaller cam, less cubic inches, crappy heads, etc...and you will get more boost, just not more airflow which is what is important for making power. So the 355 might have more boost, but the 383 will make more power because it will move more air.

Originally posted by 12sec97Z28
BTW, my plan is to have a car capable of being a daily driver that will run 10s on 12 psi and 9s on 18.

ROTFLMAO! ahahahah! daily driver, 9s ahahahah.

sorry, you just say that like it will be practical and easy. Do yourself a favor and buy another vehicle to drive on a daily basis.

Didn't say it WOULD, said it would be CAPABLE, as in, if I wanted to drive it to the other side of houston and got stuck in a traffic jam, I would be able to. If I spend this much money on a motor, I don't plan on wasting it sitting in rush hour traffic. Regardless, it can be done, just depends on how well it's built. I have a friend with a 93 mustang gt with a bennett built racing motor that runs mid 10s all day on motor and he drives it to work 3 days out of the week.

A 355 is easier and more economical to build for sure, you don't have to worry about crank or con rod clearance issues. Because the 383 has 28 more cubes, it is going to make more torque throughout the rpm range.

Guys on this board have run 10's with a blown 355. I think my car is capable of this too, just haven't tested it yet. I am content with the 355. Great street motor IMO. :p

A 355 has no real advantage as far as RPM's are concerned when compared to a 383.

7000-7,500 shift points would be on the high side for a street driven setup, which both engines are perfectly capable of.


I chose to build a 357 because that's enough cubes to make as much power as I need, it has a better R/S ratio, and I would rather have less bottom end torque so the car is more tractable on the street.

There was a guy that i have not heard about in awhile that used to have or possibly still has an Lt1 z28. It was a 355 with a Vortech and Aftercooler. I think it was an S-trim. Anyways it had a 218/230 114 lsa cam and head work. It could drive anywhere , and ran 10.5 at either 136 or 137. That would be a be a 9 second car with traction. That was with I think between 12 - 18 psi. I don't know if it was a daily driver, but whether it was or not . It could easily be. That is a very "mild" combo. It made 630+ at the wheels. I think the car weighed over 3600lbs.



There are a "few" 9 and 10 second daily drivers in Houston.

Originally posted by 5.0THIS


sorry, you just say that like it will be practical and easy. Do yourself a favor and buy another vehicle to drive on a daily basis.


First of all, how can you tell his tone as to whether or not he is saying it "Like it will be practical or easy". We are on the computer. He may now what is involved... or he may not .


But again to make a comment like that. We are on the computer . You don't know how he was saying it, and whether he was just talking, or knows the cost and what is involved.

Originally posted by 5.0THIS
ROTFLMAO! ahahahah! daily driver, 9s ahahahah.




By the way, this is Houston. ;)



I don't know about where you live , but around "these parts" LOL, 9 and 10 second true daily drivers are NOT an endagered species.


I am NOT saying that they are on every corner , but they are here. As well as quite a few other places across the country.


I live about 4 minutes from someone I have known for years, that has a 9 second daily driven z28.

Originally posted by Rpm280
By the way, this is Houston. ;)



I don't know about where you live , but around "these parts" LOL, 9 and 10 second true daily drivers are NOT an endagered species.


I am NOT saying that they are on every corner , but they are here. As well as quite a few other places across the country.


I live about 4 minutes from someone I have known for years, that has a 9 second daily driven z28.

:D He's right. They must put something in the gas around here because they're here. I know the cost and work involved because i've been researching this for a about 2 years now and haven't changed my mind on what i want. That's how I know what i want. And with the car getting up in miles now, it's about time to start thinking seriously again. Do it once, do it right.

I've also heard talk about 383s having some cooling problems, which would not mix well with the previously stated houston traffic OR high boost.

Originally posted by 5.0THIS
ROTFLMAO! ahahahah! daily driver, 9s ahahahah.

sorry, you just say that like it will be practical and easy. Do yourself a favor and buy another vehicle to drive on a daily basis.

With boost- anything is possible. I intend to run 9's in a car that is fully capable of being streetable. In my definition- if it doesnt stall, and it doesnt overheat, it's a street car.

My combo will constist of a 355, adequate heads, and my P1.

I disagree that a 355 matches a centrifugal supercharger better than a 383.

Quite the opposite, actually. In many combinations, a certain amount of "mis-matching" works best:

-The Ford 302 is a short stroke engine (good for top end) with a long runner intake (good for midrange). Good combination.

-Any 383 LT-1 has a very short runner intake (good for top end) and a long stroke (good for bottom end). I've seen several 383 LT-1's run high 10's with a relatively mild hydraulic roller cam and pump gas. Good combination.

-305 TPI. Long runner intake matched to a long stroke crank. Bad combination.

I've seen this time and time again where one engine part makes up for the weakness of another. In a centrifugally supercharged engine, a stroker crank will add the bottom end torque the supercharger doesn't supply, making a good combination.

Another point that I'd like to make is that you have to buy a new forged rotating assembly anyway, right? In just about every case, forged 383 and 350 cranks are the same price, so why not upgrade?

Also, a 383 doesn't reduce top end over a 350. It does, however, dramatically increase midrange and moderately increase top end. I've seen naturally aspirated combinations pick up 35 ftlb torque and 6 hp by only increasing stroke .25".

Check out these sites:

http://members.cox.net/blownz/

http://www.96silverz.cz28.com/dyno.htm

http://www.blackknightcamaro.com/

http://para.noid.org/~lj/

All are strokers and all are very fast cars. Most run 9's streetably.

A stroker motor can also reduce the need for a super high stall converter, again making it more streetable.

Mike

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a blower car using a 3.48" (stock) stroke. The thing is, it will be every bit as expensive as a stroker (unless it's a mild buildup using a stock crank) and won't make as much power. The fallacy in your reasoning is that you pulley the blower to make the desired boost at the desired rpm. IOW, provided the blower will flow enough air, the 383 can be set up to have the same boost/rpm curve as the short stroke motor.

Rich Krause

'daily driver' concern -> any noticable gas mileage differences in the 355 vs 383? (both properly tuned) ..on either a NA or boosted motor

LOL **** gas mileage, if my car car spin the tires through fourth I could care less about gas mileage. To receive power you must give up some amenities. I mean a 9 second car is obviously built for one purpose and that's to go fast, being a daily driver is secondary. When you say "9 second daily driver" it's not something you can really drive daily but it's something that it either street legal, or can be driven on the street when it needs to be or when you feel like it. Nobody builds a 9 second car to wear out by the rigors of daily driving. That's my opinion.

Gas mileage? You might lose 1 to 2 mpg by building a stroker.

Assuming 5,000 miles a year (that would be a whole lot for a 9 second car), a 350 gets 18 mpg, a 383 gets 16 mpg, and gas is $1.75/gallon, the yearly gas cost increase would be $60.77.

Compared to the $4000 short block, $2500 heads, $1000 valve train, $1000 fuel system, $4500 supercharger and intercooler, $1500 transmission (assuming 3 speed auto), $1000 converter, $2500 rear end, $1000 roll cage, etc. . . ($19000 so far, not including the price of the car), I think the gas mileage difference is a moot point.

Mike

LOL. yeah, i don't worry about gas mileage. I'm never off the throttle enough to get good gas mileage, so that doesn't even weigh in the equation. I understand about the almost same price for stroker situation, but what I was really trying to understand by this post is the science and reasoning behind the advantage of a 383 blower motor over 355 blower motor.
My big concern was about the lower revving stroker motor not working as well with boost when compared to the higher revs of the smaller ci engine, as well as the extra amount of flow that would be needed to create the same amount of boost.
It basically boils down to the same thing as buying a cam. Cams are all similarly priced, but if your cam does not fit with your engine combination, you've wasted your money. Thank you for all your input so far.

You keep saying lower revving 383 stroker motor. Uh I can spin my 385 to 7000 rpm and above easily all day long. I put the same blower pulleys on this motor off my 355 and lost 2lbs boost, But it's easily fixed by changing my crank pulley.

Originally posted by 96 WS6
I mean a 9 second car is obviously built for one purpose and that's to go fast, being a daily driver is secondary. When you say "9 second daily driver" it's not something you can really drive daily but it's something that it either street legal, or can be driven on the street when it needs to be or when you feel like it. Nobody builds a 9 second car to wear out by the rigors of daily driving. That's my opinion.


That's false. I'm not saying they are everywhere, but that is not opinion. That is false . There are guys that have cars that fast , and this is their TRUE daily driver. And some of them it is there ONLY car. The person I know that lives near me goes to school over an hour from here, and he drives to and from school with A/C and all. It's a late model z28 running 9's. It's a good motor combo, and nitrous. Yanks the wheels on the street or track. That is what boost, nitrous , cubic inches, $$$$ ,and technology are for. I have seen cars trap over 140 in the 1/4 mile, and drive over 300 miles a week. I saw a mustang that runs 10.5 at 143 on drag radials. The guy drove it over 300 miles a week. It was a stroker with a blower, and put down over 800 at the wheels.


Look at Jordons , car i think it used to be, and probably may still be a daily driver. His old combo ran somwhere in the 10's at over 136 in the quarter, which is 9 second power if it hooks. The z28 that I mentioned in my first post only had a 355 with a 218/ 230 114 lsa cam. That is nothing radical at all . Why couldn't you drive that every day???

YOU COULD. You say " it's not something you can really drive daily." Thats why I say it's not opinion but false, becasue people are driving them daily. That's not a matter of opinion. It's being done. Again, I am not saying they are everywhere, but they are there. And not trying to argue, just stating fact. The cam and combonations in my car and many other "slower" daily drivers on this board are bigger and more radical than the z28 i mentioned ,but the Z28 has a blower and good combination.

Look at INTIMIDS car . I don't know if it is , but it could easily be driven every day. This is 2003 ... Blowers , turbos , nitrous, technology, cubic inches, as well as $$$$ count for alot.

For a centrifically blown street car, you want to keep your rev range low, around 6 - 6.5k. Setting it up like this will allow the motor to last longer (due to less wear and tear from hi rev's), and give you a wider power band, which would be more fun on the street. Since the motor will make boost (power) proportional to rpm's, you don't want to wait till 5.5k to really get into your power range.

For an all out race car, it doesn't matter as much, since you'll have the rev's up high most of the time, and you'd probably be planning on freshening up the motor more frequently than a street car.

You don't use the revs of the motor to set your SC speed (boost), you just pulley the SC to provide the desired amount of boost at whatever rpm you want it to peak at.

There are apparently 2 misconceptions at work here:

1. A 383 limits the rpm potential of a combination. Not true. A 383 will fatten up the midrange and low-end alot, but not hurt top end.

2. A 383 reduces boost, and that is bad. Not true. If your engine flows more, then less air will be held up in the intake. Less boost will register on the guage, but more air will be flowing through the engine. If you want to register alot of boost, then leave the long block stock. You can make over 20 psi boost with a serpentine set-up on an S-trim. Or, you could do heads, cam, and stroker, and make only 12 psi, but double your power. Your choice. For any given compressor speed, it will flow more air if it is making less boost.

I'd like to point out, again, that a centrifugally supercharged motor inherently has an "all top-end" power band, with weak low-end torque. A stroker crank helps this poor power curve out by pumping up the low-end torque. And if you think low-end torque is not important at the drag strip, you are sadly mistaken. Once you get down to the low 11 second range and quicker, the 60' time is incredibly important. Low-end torque gets you a good 60' time.

Mike

Originally posted by Rpm280
That's false. I'm not saying they are everywhere, but that is not opinion. That is false . There are guys that have cars that fast , and this is their TRUE daily driver. And some of them it is there ONLY car. The person I know that lives near me goes to school over an hour from here, and he drives to and from school with A/C and all. It's a late model z28 running 9's. It's a good motor combo, and nitrous. Yanks the wheels on the street or track. That is what boost, nitrous , cubic inches, $$$$ ,and technology are for. I have seen cars trap over 140 in the 1/4 mile, and drive over 300 miles a week. I saw a mustang that runs 10.5 at 143 on drag radials. The guy drove it over 300 miles a week. It was a stroker with a blower, and put down over 800 at the wheels.


Look at Jordons , car i think it used to be, and probably may still be a daily driver. His old combo ran somwhere in the 10's at over 136 in the quarter, which is 9 second power if it hooks. The z28 that I mentioned in my first post only had a 355 with a 218/ 230 114 lsa cam. That is nothing radical at all . Why couldn't you drive that every day???

YOU COULD. You say " it's not something you can really drive daily." Thats why I say it's not opinion but false, becasue people are driving them daily. That's not a matter of opinion. It's being done. Again, I am not saying they are everywhere, but they are there. And not trying to argue, just stating fact. The cam and combonations in my car and many other "slower" daily drivers on this board are bigger and more radical than the z28 i mentioned ,but the Z28 has a blower and good combination.

Look at INTIMIDS car . I don't know if it is , but it could easily be driven every day. This is 2003 ... Blowers , turbos , nitrous, technology, cubic inches, as well as $$$$ count for alot.

So you are telling me that there is a significant amount of 9 second daily drivers? And I'm not talking about N20, that's cheating. I'm talking about real 9 second cars as they sit. They are just not practical enough to be driven daily. Most of the time, if a person can spend all that money on a car they have enough money to buy a 1500 dollar bucket to get them around . That's just how it goes, it's not worth all that money to put it to waste by daily driving it.

What I said before, a 9 second car is not meant to do anything but go fast. That's why it is a 9 second drag car. Being a drag car means the car is set up to race at the track. So you come flat out and say that is false? How can you even fathom that idea? A car that runs 9 seconds in the quarter mile is not a daily driver, it is built solely for the track. It was not built to be a daily driver. Show me a car that can line up at a stop light and run a 9 second pass as it sits with street tires and full exhaust etc. NOT HAPPENING. A car built to be a daily driver is a Honda Insight that gets 77 mpg, not a 9 second Z28 that gets 4 mpg. Great, if you know some people around your parts where fast street cars are not rare then go send them a cookie for me but if they drive their cars daily that is just not right. I mean unless they had ****loads of money to waste, it would not be economically sound to put thousands into a car and then gradually wear those thousands away driving that many miles.

So next time you say I'm false think about it because I always think before I speak. I swear some people on this board have problems with getting aggressive. Ever heard of the word DISCUSSION???? It's not a debate, it's a DISCUSSION. I never asked if I was true or false, I stated my mind.

----------------------------

:D As for the 355 vs 383, I know when it's time for me to rebuild I'm going 383 especially because I'm blown. You need that low end grunt because a blower will make it's max power at the tippy top of the RPM band. The 383 will attempt to make up for some of the lost area under the curve by giving it a low end kick in the arse.

Originally posted by 96 WS6
[B]So you are telling me that there is a significant amount of 9 second daily drivers? And I'm not talking about N20, that's cheating. I'm talking about real 9 second cars as they sit. They are just not practical enough to be driven daily. Most of the time, if a person can spend all that money on a car they have enough money to buy a 1500 dollar bucket to get them around . That's just how it goes, it's not worth all that money to put it to waste by daily driving it.




this is why i brought up the gas mileage, bc some people DO build cars to be fast DAILY DRIVEN... may not 9s, but definately 10s can be daily driven and has been done. to me, i dont get the point of building a car that goes stupid fast once a week while you drive around in a piece of crap all the time. u dont have to get great mileage, but something in the teens to get around would b nice

any why is nitrous cheating? are slicks cheating? is using race gas cheating? bc i bet those 9 second drag cars are using those other things to get there in alot of cases but arent using that kind of thing on the street, so why not n20.

i merely bring these things up for discussion, bc not every1 has the same goals or plans to get there.

N20 is cheating on the street because it's not always there. Slicks are not cheating because they are tires and you don't have to press a button or open a tank to use them, you just drive. Race gas is not cheating because once it's in your tank it's stays there and that's how your car sits, with race gas. It doesn't come out at the press of a button... Lets not get into that though. The point of building a fast car to drive around in a bucket is just as you said, building the car. Some people enjoy the process of building it and have enough pride in it that they don't want to break it driving it as a daily driver. So you are going to sit here and tell me that you will spend thousands on a 9 or 10 second car just so you can daily drive it to wear it out and so that you can be ready the next time a mustang pulls up at the line??? I mean you are trying to tell me that you make a 9 second car to daily drive the piss out of it? I mean how often do you use the 9 second capability on the street??? Obviously not much unless you want to keep your license. That's why people have buckets or even nicer cars sometimes to get them around because it is quite obvious that a 9 or 10 second car is not a good daily driver for the reasons above mentioned and more.

Originally posted by 96 WS6
N20 is cheating on the street because it's not always there. Slicks are not cheating because they are tires and you don't have to press a button or open a tank to use them, you just drive. Race gas is not cheating because once it's in your tank it's stays there and that's how your car sits, with race gas. It doesn't come out at the press of a button... Lets not get into that though. The point of building a fast car to drive around in a bucket is just as you said, building the car. Some people enjoy the process of building it and have enough pride in it that they don't want to break it driving it as a daily driver. So you are going to sit here and tell me that you will spend thousands on a 9 or 10 second car just so you can daily drive it to wear it out and so that you can be ready the next time a mustang pulls up at the line??? I mean you are trying to tell me that you make a 9 second car to daily drive the piss out of it? I mean how often do you use the 9 second capability on the street??? Obviously not much unless you want to keep your license. That's why people have buckets or even nicer cars sometimes to get them around because it is quite obvious that a 9 or 10 second car is not a good daily driver for the reasons above mentioned and more.


without getting much into the n20 part, i drive around alot, and i could have a bottle in my car all the time, but i cant drive around with slicks on all day and i cant use $4/gallon race gas all the time either, so i just think its a mod like anything else. that said, im not a huge fan of n20 either, but its a means to a goal and an effective one at that

and yes i spend thousands of dollars on a car i daily drive the piss out of. why? because its a CAR, thats what its made for. i respect the idea of building a car that is for racing only, and for cars that are just for gettin from point A to point B, but id rather take a bit of both rather than all of one.

i have enough "pride" to build a car that can drive to school and work everyday, take on trips, and still go to the track to run a good time. doesnt mean im doing it so that i can be ready for some stoplight race, that doesnt interest me. but having the power around all the time is fun, and if im going to spend so much $ on a car, im going to make sure i enjoy it as much as possible

im not building a track car, i want to push the limits of what i can do with a college budget street car. then ill push the limits with a real-job budget street car, thats just my thing, and thats why i asked about the gas mileage difference, bc to alot of people it needs to be able to get 13-18mpg (or whatever) and still run a good time.

While I kind of agree that talking about gas mileage and 9 second cars in the same paragraph leaves me a little :confused:, I will say that the key to good mileage and a fast car is having a manual tranny with an OD. Last year I drove my M6 to the track and back (with the slicks in the car), bolted on the slicks, ran mid 10's, and drove home. A 110 mile round trip and I averaged (indcluding 4 runs) 16mpg! In a 3,500lb car, that combo would have run pretty close to the 9's and it sure could be a daily driver.

With the TH400 and a 4,200 stall, I averaged 9 mpg on a recent highway jaunt :eek:. So, I'd say you should stick with an M6 if you have any concern about mileage. As for a 9sec car that's a "street" car by my definition, keep one thing in mind: BRING $$$$$.

Rich Krause

Well I still get max. enjoyment out of my car and I don't drive it every day. Things like going to school and commutes like that have no need for a 9 or 10 second car (or my car for that matter). It would be a waste of gas, waste of money, waste of car. If you have ****load of money then do whatever you want, but if I really had that much money I would buy a Z06... I mean let's be honest here, the more we mod our cars the more things can go wrong. A 9 or 10 second car is not a feasible daily driver.

I mean realistically you could drive a 10 second car every day but why? It just doesn't seem logical in the slightest bit to me. I mean go ahead and spend all the money on your car but you don't have to drive it to school and work every day to enjoy it. I mean it's not like it's serving a purpose sitting in the parking lot all day??? I mean that's great that you can drive your car every day, so can I. My maintenance record is perfect and I would take this car anywhere but why??? It's just a waste? I could easily travel 100 miles to the track, run a few times, and travel a hundred miles back with ease and I would do that because it's necessary. But why daily drive a really fast car? To me it's just a waste since most daily driving involves traffic, stupid drivers, tight parking spaces, and worst of all, cops.

Originally posted by 96 WS6
So you are telling me that there is a significant amount of 9 second daily drivers? And I'm not talking about N20, that's cheating. I'm talking about real 9 second cars as they sit. They are just not practical enough to be driven daily. Most of the time, if a person can spend all that money on a car they have enough money to buy a 1500 dollar bucket to get them around . That's just how it goes, it's not worth all that money to put it to waste by daily driving it.

What I said before, a 9 second car is not meant to do anything but go fast. That's why it is a 9 second drag car. Being a drag car means the car is set up to race at the track. So you come flat out and say that is false? How can you even fathom that idea? A car that runs 9 seconds in the quarter mile is not a daily driver, it is built solely for the track. It was not built to be a daily driver. Show me a car that can line up at a stop light and run a 9 second pass as it sits with street tires and full exhaust etc. NOT HAPPENING. A car built to be a daily driver is a Honda Insight that gets 77 mpg, not a 9 second Z28 that gets 4 mpg. Great, if you know some people around your parts where fast street cars are not rare then go send them a cookie for me but if they drive their cars daily that is just not right. I mean unless they had ****loads of money to waste, it would not be economically sound to put thousands into a car and then gradually wear those thousands away driving that many miles.

So next time you say I'm false think about it because I always think before I speak. I swear some people on this board have problems with getting aggressive. Ever heard of the word DISCUSSION???? It's not a debate, it's a DISCUSSION. I never asked if I was true or false, I stated my mind.

----------------------------

:D As for the 355 vs 383, I know when it's time for me to rebuild I'm going 383 especially because I'm blown. You need that low end grunt because a blower will make it's max power at the tippy top of the RPM band. The 383 will attempt to make up for some of the lost area under the curve by giving it a low end kick in the arse.



First of all just by the first sentence in your post, I can see you don't read or listen. I said they are not on every corner, but they are there. So where do you come from with the question about there being a signifigant number of 9 second daily drivers??? I flat out stated the are NOT on every corner, but they ARE out there. Next , you seem to have this notion that just because you would not spend that much money on a car to drive every day that some won't. Some folks have a WHOLE lot of money. One of the mustangs I know of has about $100,000 in it, and puts down over 800 at the wheels. It runs over 140 in the quarter mile, and goes over 300 miles a week, So don't tell me NO one spends that much money on a car to drive every day. Just look at all the cars that cost 50, 000 plus on the street that people drive every day. If your theory correct , none of those people would drive them daily, because they cost so much, and the people would not want to put wear and tear on them. And some of these 9second cars today have cams smaller than mine. So there is nothing unstreetable about SOME of them.

Vipers are about 80,000 and some of them are daily drivers. And some of the 9 second cars these days have very mild motor combos with a blower or turbo and dont have near 80,000 in them. (And some of the people with cars that fast are not rich at all). Thats just the reason some of the folks with them drive them every day. Just like some people (like you it seems) would not drive them everyday because of the money involeved... Some people don't want to spend that much money on a car that is so streetable just to drive on the weekends a 1/4 mile at a time. It's kinda like a Viper. You have some people who only drive them on the weekends. (apparently you would fall in that category) And then you have people like myself that would not spend 80,000 on a car just to drive 2 days a week. It would be a daily driver, and why not . It's mild enough. Just like some of the 9 second cars are . A mild cam in a built motor with boost is very streetable. There are 12 second cars on here with more radical motors than some of the 9 and 10 second blowr and turbo cars.

Like I said, your post was FALSE ... Not opinion, and you DON'T think before you speak, or else you would not have posted most of what you did . What part did you not read about the person I know that has a 9 second daily driver a few miles from me, or the other people that have them. What is so unstreetagble about a motor like a 355 with a blower and a little bitty 218/ 230 cam. NOTHING. That motor is milder than many of the 12 second cars on this board with 305, 306 cams etc. Some people have money or the know how, and don't mind.

You have so much too correct, that I won't bother. Like I said, they are NOT everwhere , but they are there. Again some people have them as there only car. What part of that don't you understand?? There is nothing too be opinionated about. Some people have 9 second daily drivers. Some of them don't even run at the track all that much, so the are not purpose drag cars. But again . There is nothing to have an opinion about . They are out there . How do you have an opinion about that. You don't. It's false to say there are none.


If I tell you a zebra is black and white, and you think its green that is not your opinion. That is false. Learn the difference. I gave you facts . Not what i think. One lives down the street from me. Ther is NOTHING to debate. But some people will try to argue anything.






And as far as nitrous being cheating. I should have known you would have trouble comprehending things when I saw that idiotic statement.

Relax buddy I didn't mean to hurt your feelings LOL. I'm not even going to sink to your level but I will respond to prove my point. I will just say that you sir are pathetic, you're post was FALSE haha, and do not insult my intelligence either because I'm smarter than you. Also, I said it's not a DEBATE, it's a DISCUSSION. Do you know the difference, I mean you should if you graduated 4'th grade (honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick).

"First of all just by the first sentence in your post, I can see you don't read or listen. I said they are not on every corner, but they are there."

I said a significant amount, mean an amount big enough to be recognized. So you my friend are false on that statement. Oh and what does that second sentence mean, if you could please clarify. Once again your writing skills have shown weakness in that contradiction.

"I know that has a 9 second daily driver down the street from me, or the other people that have them. What is so unstreetagble about a 355 with a blowr and a little bitty 218/ 230 cam. NOTHING. "

You talk about it as if it is a common occurance, yet you get angered when I ask if there is a significant number of them? Yet another contradiction. Oh and please show me a 355 with a little bitty 218/230 cam that runs 9's or 10's PLEASE because I would like to model my combo after that. Regardless of what you seem to think of me, I do know a bit about cars (I have about 6x as many posts as you if you didn't notice), especially mine and I know that you are oversimplifying to make your point seem like it's glowing. To make a 355 with an "itty bitty" 218/230 go 10's you need crazy heads, and crazy boost... Now to get crazy boost reliable enough for the street is a whole other story, you get into blowers, cog pullies, custom IC's, massive amounts of fuel, etc. etc. Most importantly, as RSKrause said recently on this thread, a TH400 with a 4200 is not streetable. So basically you're idea is not feasible as it stands...

So I guess that means you are false right? Yup.

"You have so much too correct, that I won't bother."

I didn't even have to correct you, I just showed your contradictions and errors in your statements. Let's not let this get further than this because I'm sure that the people that actually want to discuss 355 vs. 383 don't appreciate this bickering.

Hopefully when and if my car gets to the 10 second level, it will be able to be driven on the street to get grocies or go pickup my girlfriend or whatever it may be, but you can bet that I won't be daily driving it even though it can be done. It's just not logical to me to daily drive it when I could take it out other times and enjoy it more and get more adrenaline rushes than I would driving in traffic or commuting on the freeway. If you disagree with my opinion then say so, but please don't tell my opinion is wrong, that's an oxymoron.

Originally posted by 96 WS6
Relax buddy I didn't mean to hurt your feelings LOL. I'm not even going to sink to your level but I will respond to prove my point. I will just say that you sir are pathetic, you're post was FALSE haha, and do not insult my intelligence either because I'm smarter than you. Also, I said it's not a DEBATE, it's a DISCUSSION. Do you know the difference, I mean you should if you graduated 4'th grade (honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick).

"First of all just by the first sentence in your post, I can see you don't read or listen. I said they are not on every corner, but they are there."

I said a significant amount, mean an amount big enough to be recognized. So you my friend are false on that statement. Oh and what does that second sentence mean, if you could please clarify. Once again your writing skills have shown weakness in that contradiction.

"I know that has a 9 second daily driver down the street from me, or the other people that have them. What is so unstreetagble about a 355 with a blowr and a little bitty 218/ 230 cam. NOTHING. "

You talk about it as if it is a common occurance, yet you get angered when I ask if there is a significant number of them? Yet another contradiction. Oh and please show me a 355 with a little bitty 218/230 cam that runs 9's or 10's PLEASE because I would like to model my combo after that. Regardless of what you seem to think of me, I do know a bit about cars (I have about 6x as many posts as you if you didn't notice), especially mine and I know that you are oversimplifying to make your point seem like it's glowing. To make a 355 with an "itty bitty" 218/230 go 10's you need crazy heads, and crazy boost... Now to get crazy boost reliable enough for the street is a whole other story, you get into blowers, cog pullies, custom IC's, massive amounts of fuel, etc. etc. Most importantly, as RSKrause said recently on this thread, a TH400 with a 4200 is not streetable. So basically you're idea is not feasible as it stands...

So I guess that means you are false right? Yup.

"You have so much too correct, that I won't bother."

I didn't even have to correct you, I just showed your contradictions and errors in your statements. Let's not let this get further than this because I'm sure that the people that actually want to discuss 355 vs. 383 don't appreciate this bickering.

Hopefully when and if my car gets to the 10 second level, it will be able to be driven on the street to get grocies or go pickup my girlfriend or whatever it may be, but you can bet that I won't be daily driving it even though it can be done. It's just not logical to me to daily drive it when I could take it out other times and enjoy it more and get more adrenaline rushes than I would driving in traffic or commuting on the freeway. If you disagree with my opinion then say so, but please don't tell my opinion is wrong, that's an oxymoron.



I did not get angerd . The reason I responded is because you are just talking out of the side of your mouth like you are doing again. Look what you say above about me saying it like its a common occurence. Thats why is responded, because if you would read, you would see in all my post where is say they are not on every corner but they are there. I plain and simply said it from the first to the last post. They are are not everwhere but them here you come again overlooking everything i said just to try and have a reply. I will say it again like I did the fist time. They are not on every corner.

You did not ask me if there was a significant number. YOU tried to act is if i was saying that there were. And I thought i made it clear with the not on every corner statement. My whole point to your is that there are 9 second daily drivers, BUT somehow you get out of that that i am saying there are an abundance of them. I said they are there.

As far as a Th400 and big converter, what are you talking about. All cars don't need that to run 9s. However some do have 4000+ converters and drive everyday. As a matter of fact the car that I keep mentioning near me does not even have overdrive . It is a turbo 350 or 400 (cant remember which.) Alot of ls1 guys drive around in 11 second cars with high 3000 and low 4000 rpm converters though. Streetble is a relative thing.



And let me make this clear. I am not saying that your OPINION is wrong. I saying that YOU are wrong and that it is not an OPINION but FALSE. Saying there are no 9 second daily drivers is false and not an opinoin, because ther are. If you would actually read , you would see that you don't have a decent response for anything i said. On every one of your responses , I am trying to figure out what you have been reading because they have not basis. You are comming out with stuff just to have a response. On the intelligence issue , I doubt you are smarter, but it's funny that you would type garbage and think you are smarter than someone you dont know. Although from what you type, I would be willing to bet that you are not.

Then you come up with the significant amount or " amount to be recongnized crap. LOl. I responded to your fist post to say that there are 9 second daily drivers, not that there were a large percentage of them. I think we all know they are not at every corner. But your original post said there are none and that people dont spend that much on a car to drive every day. I was telling that there are some and that people do spend that much on daily drivers. Not that they are a common occurence. But if you read the first time you would know that.


As far as you having 6x as many post as me, So what. Some people are trolls, post whores, and some just spend more time on the computer. Plus some have many useless post. (Like yours) What does 6x the amount of post mean. I came to this board awhile probably years before I ever post. Plus i don't like do what youre doing and post garbage.

There engine builders on hear with fewer post than you . But i guess you are smarter than them too. I have been doing the car thing for awhile. Just the fact that you said there are know 9 second daily drivers shows that you don't know what you are talking about. Thats what some of the shadtree guys from long ago that are not familiar with todays technology say. Nine second daily drivers are not the norm...... Like you keep trying to make it seem like i am saying . All i am saying is that there are some. NOT millions, but SOME.

If something is mispelled so what I am not spell checking for you.LOL

Originally posted by 96 WS6



Oh and please show me a 355 with a little bitty 218/230 cam that runs 9's or 10's PLEASE because I would like to model my combo after that.

"



For your combo, the guys was in Austin his name is John Eaves. I don't know if he still has the car, but it was a lt1 z28 with a 218/230 114 cam. Vortech s trim, aftercooler, ported lt1 heads. Nothing radical , as you seem to think it would need, No crazy boost. 630+ at the wheels. 10.57 at 136 or 137 . His website does not seem to work anymore, but he is listed on Brett Frankers Fbody supercharger list. But I guess Im lying about though. LOL. Anyways you asked and you recieved.

If that is not enought, look at INTIMID8's car he does have AFR heads, but that nothing that quite a few cars on here dont have. And even if it is so what. That's just my point. Some people are willing to spend and go radical. Even though radical motors are not needed with todays technology.


Look at INTIMID8's car his cam is I think smaller than that , and he put down 600+ at the wheels with his last combo and blower. Now he has a turbo and the same cam and makes over 700 at the wheels. All with an :"itty bitty" cam. You seem to be stuck in the 70's. Ask him How big his cam is. With blower, turbos, nitruous and todays technology , you dont need a huge solid roller or crazy , unstreetable motor to run nines.

Yes, you need the fuel etc, but so what. The guys who have these cars get The stuff they need to support the power. It may cost, but you gotta pay for what you want. Some people don't have a problem with that. Maybe it's just where you live. But around here if you go to a cruise on the weekends , you would be surprised at how many of these cars you see. Most of the cars are not this fast, but there are quite a few around here. But this is TEXAS. You guys may not have the same types of cars because of smog laws etc. Most of the daily drivers dont run nines or ten's here or anywhere else , but since you think none do you would be surprised at the number here. But then again from your post, I guess just one would blow your mind.

Then again you would not believe it, because it is your FALSE realism ....... NOT opinion that they don't exist.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

haha i didnt ask the gas mileage question to make a big arguement, but i think its obvious people build their cars for diff things, which is why 355 vs 383 or streetatblility questions come up

it may play a big role what your city is like too. to me, daily driver means 15 minute fairly open thruway runs to school and work, very little bumper to bumper traffic, and near-daily cruise nights where i need my car with me. i also like to go on 1 or 2 trips each year that usually total more than 3-4 thousand miles, so the car needs to be able to do alot of stuff.

im thinking ill go with 350/355 for better traction/driveability on the street where my car sees most of its miles, but i havent decided yet. if 383 can get me decent mileage too then it is of interest, but i dont have a full understanding of the tuning issues with that

I said lets drop it :rolleyes:

It's my opinion that a 9 second car is NOT a daily driver. To me those two words shouldn't be in the same sentence. That is an opinion, it's not false. I also said that they do exist but I also went on to say that it is not logical, cost-effective, smart or safe.

I will look into John Eaves combo, that name sounds familiar for some reason.... Thanks for the info.

And I can't be stuck in the 70's I wasn't even born yet. All I know is mostly late model stuff anywhoo. I don't know why you are trying to tell me all this stuff, as you can see my car is supercharged and eventually my car will have the works and eventually I hope it will be a low 11/high 10 second car. As you may or may not have read in my last post, I said my car would be daily driveable but I definitely would not do it. So they do exist, and hopefully I will be driving one (Rpm280 pitches a tent). That's DRIVING, far different than daily driving.

Please do not respond I'm getting tired of having to clarify myself and point out the faults in your arguments. This is a bunch of BS and I do not like ruining other people's posts because I hate when people do it to me...

Bad AZz Z28, no matter what people post about how a stroker has more power, way more torque, costs the same, better drivability, only slightly worse gas mileage (cost difference being miniscule), better 60' time (necessary to run 9's), you still want a 355.

Apparently, you had your mind made up ahead of time. Do you already have a 350 crank sitting around or something?

Please notice that my current set-up is a 355 with a 14 psi Vortech T-trim. Even though the combo makes good power, I am not happy with the lack of mid-range and low-end power. My last combination was a 11.5/1 compression naturally aspirated 383, which I was much happier with because of the huge midrange torque. That's why I just completed my new engine, which is a 383 to be used with the supercharger. I'm going to have it running some time next month.

Don't make the 355 mistake I just did. Build a stroker.

Mike

Originally posted by engineermike
Bad AZz Z28, no matter what people post about how a stroker has more power, way more torque, costs the same, better drivability, only slightly worse gas mileage (cost difference being miniscule), better 60' time (necessary to run 9's), you still want a 355.

Apparently, you had your mind made up ahead of time. Do you already have a 350 crank sitting around or something?

Don't make the 355 mistake I just did. Build a stroker.

Mike

i wasnt arguing the benefits of a 383, if i was tryin to run 9s i would do that or bigger. but it will probably be cheaper right now FOR ME to go with a more modest build and see what i get...ill post if im dissapointed or not when spring comes :D

Originally posted by 96 WS6
I said lets drop it :rolleyes:

It's my opinion that a 9 second car is NOT a daily driver. To me those two words shouldn't be in the same sentence. That is an opinion, it's not false. I also said that they do exist but I also went on to say that it is not logical, cost-effective, smart or safe.

I will look into John Eaves combo, that name sounds familiar for some reason.... Thanks for the info.

And I can't be stuck in the 70's I wasn't even born yet. All I know is mostly late model stuff anywhoo. I don't know why you are trying to tell me all this stuff, as you can see my car is supercharged and eventually my car will have the works and eventually I hope it will be a low 11/high 10 second car. As you may or may not have read in my last post, I said my car would be daily driveable but I definitely would not do it. So they do exist, and hopefully I will be driving one (Rpm280 pitches a tent). That's DRIVING, far different than daily driving.

Please do not respond I'm getting tired of having to clarify myself and point out the faults in your arguments. This is a bunch of BS and I do not like ruining other people's posts because I hate when people do it to me...


You ruined this post. I simply said there are 9 and 10 second daily drivers. Because you said there were not, and that "it's not something you could really drive daily". It does not matter if you believe they are practical , or do not see the point in them. Obviously some people do. Everyone does not care about good gas mileage even on daily drivers. Look how many 1960's and 70 cars there are still being driven everday with no overdrive and "big" gears etc. I can't find one place where you pointed out a fault in my post, but yet you still keep saying you do.

You SAID THERE ARE NONE, AND I TOLD YOU THERE ARE SOME BUT YET YOU STILL RESPOND FOR SOME ODD REASON AND THEN YOU SAY IT'S "YOUR OPINION" BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WRONG, WHEN MANY OF US KNOW THERE ARE SOME. ((NOT MILLIONS, BUT SOME)). So who ruinded the post. It's seems you,.... Somebody who can't face the fact that he is wrong, so you keep yapping and try and call it an "OPINION" when it is NOT that at all , but is a False statement.

Fact is, there are these cars that aren true daily drivers, and not just DRIVEABLE as you still.

And you are still wrong. That is what you don't get about the OPINION thing. You have not clarified yourself one bit. You just keep stating replying and trying to cover up your false statement by calling it opinion.


Can you not understand that it is NOT AN OPINION when you say that there are not 9 second daily drivers. WHY .... BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME which makes your statement.... not opinion but false. I know they are NOT a large percentage of the cars on the road. Again, I was NOT saying there are millions of them, JUST THAT THERE ARE SOME.


The only reason I responded in the first place is because you said there were not, and I was telling you there are. I told you facts, but you still keep comming with this "my opinion thing" , I guess because you felt you had to try and defend yourself.
There is nothing to defend. You said there were none and I was telling you there are. Maybe you did not like how is said it, or just don't understand but , THIS ISSUE IS NOT AN OPINION BEACUSE of the FACT that these CARS EXIST. And they do. THAT IS WHY IT'S NOT AN OPINION! ........ What don't you understand about that????

You seem to feel because it is not practical for you, or because you don't see the point that there are none. I never said they are the most practical, i just said the are out there. Although obviously some are "practiacal enought to be true daily drivers" Sure Nobody NEEDS a 600+hp street car, but we don't need the 300+ from stock cars these days either. Whether they are street or race cars, we don't build them because we NEED them, we build them because we WAN'T them. And some people want 9 and 10 second daily drivers, and have them. No opinions about it.


You say, "It's my opinion that a 9 second car is NOT a daily driver". That is not an opinion because some are . And when I say daily driver, I am not talking about ABLE to be driven daily, but true daily drivers. How can that be your opinion???

I am not trying to argue, but do you not understand this????

Like I said before, a zebra is black and white. I can't have an opinion that it's green. If I say it's green that's wrong.

Obviously you have different thiking patterns than many on here. Just by the fact that you said "nitrous is cheating" shows this. If you run nitrous in PRO STOCK .... it's cheating . Why because it's NOT ALLOWED. If you run it a class where the rules say it's allowed , How is that cheating??? It's NOT. "Because it's not always on does not make something cheating" . That's just the common line people that say nitrous is cheating use.


By the way, If you hate ruining peoples post, try to just be quiet when you say something wrong instead of trying to cover it up to save face by replying with something that makes no sense and calling it your opinion . If you say something wrong.... Everybody is wrong sometimes.

You said there were none. It's a fact that there some, and I told you this. I HAVE SEEN THEM. That should have been it. But you could not let truth be truth. You are the reason this was drawn out.

You can have an opinion on certain things, but this is not one of them.

Bad AZz Z28, Sorry, I didn't realize from the original question:

Originally posted by 12sec97Z28
. . .My question is why wouldn't a 355 be a better blower motor than a 383? . . . Does my theory hold any water, or should I let it sink and start thinking 383?
BTW, my plan is to have a car capable of being a daily driver that will run 10s on 12 psi and 9s on 18.

that the goal wasn't to run 9's and that a "modest build" that would be cheap was desired.

I guess I was trying to explain why a 383 is better in every way and would be a big advantage over a 355 in a quest to run 9's.

Mike

Originally posted by Rpm280
You ruined this post. I simply said there are 9 and 10 second daily drivers. Because you said there were not, and that "it's not something you could really drive daily". It does not matter if you believe they are practical , or do not see the point in them. Obviously some people do. Everyone does not care about good gas mileage even on daily drivers. Look how many 1960's and 70 cars there are still being driven everday with no overdrive and "big" gears etc. I can't find one place where you pointed out a fault in my post, but yet you still keep saying you do.

You SAID THERE ARE NONE, AND I TOLD YOU THERE ARE SOME BUT YET YOU STILL RESPOND FOR SOME ODD REASON AND THEN YOU SAY IT'S "YOUR OPINION" BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WRONG, WHEN MANY OF US KNOW THERE ARE SOME. ((NOT MILLIONS, BUT SOME)). So who ruinded the post. It's seems you,.... Somebody who can't face the fact that he is wrong, so you keep yapping and try and call it an "OPINION" when it is NOT that at all , but is a False statement.

Fact is, there are these cars that aren true daily drivers, and not just DRIVEABLE as you still.

And you are still wrong. That is what you don't get about the OPINION thing. You have not clarified yourself one bit. You just keep stating replying and trying to cover up your false statement by calling it opinion.


Can you not understand that it is NOT AN OPINION when you say that there are not 9 second daily drivers. WHY .... BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME which makes your statement.... not opinion but false. I know they are NOT a large percentage of the cars on the road. Again, I was NOT saying there are millions of them, JUST THAT THERE ARE SOME.


The only reason I responded in the first place is because you said there were not, and I was telling you there are. I told you facts, but you still keep comming with this "my opinion thing" , I guess because you felt you had to try and defend yourself.
There is nothing to defend. You said there were none and I was telling you there are. Maybe you did not like how is said it, or just don't understand but , THIS ISSUE IS NOT AN OPINION BEACUSE of the FACT that these CARS EXIST. And they do. THAT IS WHY IT'S NOT AN OPINION! ........ What don't you understand about that????

You seem to feel because it is not practical for you, or because you don't see the point that there are none. I never said they are the most practical, i just said the are out there. Although obviously some are "practiacal enought to be true daily drivers" Sure Nobody NEEDS a 600+hp street car, but we don't need the 300+ from stock cars these days either. Whether they are street or race cars, we don't build them because we NEED them, we build them because we WAN'T them. And some people want 9 and 10 second daily drivers, and have them. No opinions about it.


You say, "It's my opinion that a 9 second car is NOT a daily driver". That is not an opinion because some are . And when I say daily driver, I am not talking about ABLE to be driven daily, but true daily drivers. How can that be your opinion???

I am not trying to argue, but do you not understand this????

Like I said before, a zebra is black and white. I can't have an opinion that it's green. If I say it's green that's wrong.

Obviously you have different thiking patterns than many on here. Just by the fact that you said "nitrous is cheating" shows this. If you run nitrous in PRO STOCK .... it's cheating . Why because it's NOT ALLOWED. If you run it a class where the rules say it's allowed , How is that cheating??? It's NOT. "Because it's not always on does not make something cheating" . That's just the common line people that say nitrous is cheating use.


By the way, If you hate ruining peoples post, try to just be quiet when you say something wrong instead of trying to cover it up to save face by replying with something that makes no sense and calling it your opinion . If you say something wrong.... Everybody is wrong sometimes.

You said there were none. It's a fact that there some, and I told you this. I HAVE SEEN THEM. That should have been it. But you could not let truth be truth. You are the reason this was drawn out.

You can have an opinion on certain things, but this is not one of them.

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!! You guys are making my sides hurt with laughter! (literally, I've been laughing out loud at my computer reading this sh!t) Both of you repeat yourselves like broken records and spend THIS much time arguing about how each of you interpreted what you said.....about car stuff :rolleyes: ...not like we're debating politics or religious beliefs here guys. This reminds me of when my former business partner and I kept sending each other nasty e-mails when we were trying to dissolve the business (we were best friends too) ....no matter what, each of us would keep trying to drive the exact same points home to no avail. We were argueing about who was going to buy and who was going to sell out in the business and how much $$$ it was going to be ...and "who said what about it from six months ago and up until now" and what not. But we were discussing something serious.....splitting up a business, not whether or not each of us felt a certain way about how driveable really fast cars are (or whether or not one of us said there was no daily driver super-fast cars or what he meant by it)......please, you guys need to find something real to debate about and must have too much time on your hands (maybe I do too...lol). But thanks for making me ROTFLMAO!.....absolutely unbelievable :rolleyes:

I skipped over all the BS and will give my experience with my motor and car.

I have a very budget 355 with stock heads, very small cam, small converter and 8# boost and am running 10s. My car is very streetable and reliable. It could just as easily run 10s with a 383 but would cost more.

Bottom line is figure out what your goals and budget are and build within those means.

So basically a turbocharger is cheating as well since its not constantly boosting or "always there".

Originally posted by SCZ28
I skipped over all the BS and will give my experience with my motor and car.

I have a very budget 355 with stock heads, very small cam, small converter and 8# boost and am running 10s. My car is very streetable and reliable. It could just as easily run 10s with a 383 but would cost more.

Bottom line is figure out what your goals and budget are and build within those means.

Told you there are guys running 10's with blown 355's.
I have a budget 355 too. It's all you need for a street car. No real need for a 383. If you are going to go 383, why not 396 or 409 or bigger? Where does it end?

Around here in Southern Cal, you don't see many blower cars around, most people don't know what they are. :p

Wow, this thread went to **** fast..

"Nitrous is cheating" "9 sec cars arent daily drivers" blah blah..

You have some learning to do..


Dont bother giving me some long ass explanation, Im not even going to read this thread anymore...


:o