Mounting a BIG intercooler on a 4th gen?

Even with the water, my IAT's are just too high. I am going to do an intercooler this winter but need a BIG one to complement the ATI F1 I am using. Presently, it makes 17psi of boost and I plan to crank it up next year.

Anyone put a big IC on a 4th gen? What are the dimensions of the IC and how/where is it mounted?

Thanks for any hints or help you can provide.

Rich Krause

Here is a rather large one:

http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB20&Number=590321&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

Basically, it looks like two three-core intercoolers from ATI.

Originally posted by rskrause
Presently, it makes 17psi of boost and I plan to crank it up next year.


Good lord Rich, does it ever end? :p

air-air or air-water? It might be easier to with an air-water as you would have more mounting possibilities... even though they are a lot more complicated.

Brady's got a big bastard on his twin turbo Z.

The link is http://turbocharged.net/twinturbo/Installation7/

Uncle Marc :usa:

Yep, it may be time for air-to-water. :)

Thanks for the links, but does anyone know the source for the IC's pictured? I am looking for brand names/model numbers, etc.

Rich Krause

Rich, I think you should explain what you are trying to improve exactly... Are your IAT's too high just cruising around, or are they too high during a pass/dyno run?

With my twin setup and the 6-core intercooler, the IAT's stayed nice and low all the time.. But I think they IAT's would be be reasonable with a much smaller air/air intercooler for normal driving and during a pass I think the IAT's could be lower if I used an air/water intercooler..

If your IAT's are livable during normal driving, you should think long and hard about an air/water setup.. Set it up to Kick the water pump on using a hobb's switch so you have a nice reserve of cold water to cool the intake charge when you make a pass or feel the urge for some spirited driving..

I know my next intercooler will be air/water.. :)

good luck
...Brady

Brady: good questions! I really have never been concerned with IAT except at WOT, should I be? The air-air is clearly less efficient, but the simplicity appeals to me. Everything else is already so complicated on my combo, that I hesitate to add another complex system.

Rich Krause

What are using to control your alky pump? A WOT switch? Hobbs switch? If so you might consider investing in a progressive pump controller... it will allow you to give yourself enough alky to cool your air significantly whether it's low boost or high boost. That's what I would consider first since you already have the kit on your car and it would just be a simple wiring matter. Check out www.alkycontrol.com, he's from Florida and he makes nice controllers and alky kits. I believe it's 200 for a progressive and you can set intial pump speed, initial turn-on point (wired to the MAP) and final ramp gain of the pump voltage. There is a video of him making a run to 26 psi in his TTA on pump gas with no knock until the shift. Granted it is intercooled but it's a stock TTA intercooler on 26 psi so it's not really doing much for the cool air cause.

Rskrause

I am currently working with Griffin Intercoolers on a front mount for my car. Are you planning on running the inlet and outlet on same side? You want to check this out :
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB20&Number=692808&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

Rich I got my intercooler from a local that had it on a race supra. This thing is massive, the measurements of the core; 4.5" thick 25" long and 18" tall. Im not sure of the flow charactoristics but i have never had air temp issues. On 19psi on the data logger my temps usually start at about ambient or a few degrees more. Then by the end of a 1/4 mile pass the heat generated nets about a 12 degree increase. I do know it was from spearco and about a $1600 intercooler. Check out my site you can see how its mounted. As for room you cant get much thicker and I dont see why going longer or wider would make a difference with the way the front is cut up.

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/Buildup5.htm

Rich-
you will find that those "big" ICs are all custom.

I can get you a custom spearco IC for a good price if you are interested.

I am ordering 2 1500cfm ICs just like the one in my car next week, and can get you in on the deal if you like(custom bar/plate spearco)

Hey everybody who answered: THANKS! I am going to look into some of the options suggested.

Anyone else?

Rich Krause

As was said above, it's pretty much custom - depends how you want to route the blower pipes, what size, etc. Best bet is to mock something up (cardboard, etc.) and then match it up to an available core.

The other issue to consider that was just lightly touched on is the bar/plate vs. tube/fin design. I am far from an expert, but it looks to me like the bar/plate, for an equivalent core size, should give you lower temp (it's a more effecient design). It will also be *much* more resistant to damage from rocks, gravel, etc.

The downside is that it is normally heavier, and more expensive. Usually more expensive - I talked to griffin also - all their intercoolers are tube/fin, but they actually came in more expensive than a spearco unit for me, and other than the weight issue couldn't supply me with any technically valid reasons for going with the tube/fin style. Griffin does warranty their intercoolers for a year, and in regards to gravel damage, etc. they said (though I guess no officially?) that as long as I wasn't in a front end collision, etc. it would be covered.

That said unless weight is an issue (~1.5x the weight from the numbers I have seen) the bar/plate is definitely the way to go. (and that doesn't take into the fact that you can achieve the same cooling with a smaller bar/plate - which might bring the weight back in line - though I would preferr the maximum amount of cooling).

When mocking up you should also consider airflow to the radiator as well.

I'm picking up one of the intercoolers jordon mentioned above, with a few slight tweaks.

They don't really do F cars as their main business but give the guys at Indy Race Cores a call...I believe they still do a lot of custom fitting if I remember right, and they deal with guys running 25+ psi so I don't think that will be a problem

http://www.indyracecores.com/

Thanks again! Good info.

Rich Krause

Pics of an intercooler we helped design for Griffin:
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB20&Number=692808&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

That's about the biggest off the shelf air/air intercooler you can fit in our cars.

I think some folks were talking GP and the price was around $700.

Originally posted by Pro Stock John
Pics of an intercooler we helped design for Griffin:
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB20&Number=692808&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

That's about the biggest off the shelf air/air intercooler you can fit in our cars.

I think some folks were talking GP and the price was around $700.

Very nice. That's an off the shelf Griffin? Do you have a pn?

Rich Krause

Not offhand, but email mbell@griffinrad.com to see what sort of pricing they have.

The engineer is jburns@griffinrad.com, and he has a LT1 Camaro so he's sympathetic to our cause.

I used to have a price list for Griffin cores, but it's old(6-8 months). I could send it to you if you'd like. It'll give you a rough idea on price.

Another option might be an intercooler chiller. They are becoming popular with DSM's. Basically you just run a shot of N2O through the intercooler. When I say through I dont mean on the inside I mean on the outside. They have kits that can be bought but they use N2O and it can be expensive. You can make your own out of old N20 parts or paintball parts. I would use C02 instead in N2O alot cheaper to refill. I like these because they are not as complex as an air-to-water and they are only on when you want them to be. Could be a cheap alternative.


Michael

An intercoopler spray bar is by far the best thing u could do for your air to air intercooler. Almost all the rally cars use them, the new Subaru STi uses one and countless others on the street.
I have one installed on my Dodge Daytona and it works well.

Now dont use N2O its way to expensive to do that. Either use a CO2 like boostedinaz said or use a water spray bar.

Basically its a simple system you just need to be able to mount the coolant somewhere. Have the spray bar in front of the intercooler and you can have it rigged up to a switch inside the car or to your throttle for it to come on at WOT. On the STi its worth 25hp in short bursts. More on modiofied cars.

Hunter

Griffin said that I should expect my IAT's to be lower by 20% because of the intercooler.

I looked at spraying C02 as well, but that would be an experiment for next year.

Every 8-10F drop at the motor is equal to a point of octane. (90 vs 89).

I have been talking to Griffin about designing an intercooler for my car and it seems like they are waiting to get dyno sheets from Pro Stock JOhn before they start producing more. :)

They might be waiting a few more weeks since I am still waiting for FAST to work on my ECU.

What kind of problems are you having? Tuning?

FAST w/b was reading 3 full points more rich than dyno.

I had the same issue but my problem turned out to be that my heads were not machined corrected thus my valves were not sealing properly. I have also heard that it is uncommon for the WB from FAST to be up to a whole point off.

.1-.5 more rich is normal.

When we tuned off the Dynojet w/b the car was fine.