Synthetic or not?

I just got the Z,
it has about 60k on it... and the "oil change" light is on...


Should I switch it to full synthetic?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of switching?

:confused:

Thanks a lot!

I did, it comes in the Corvette from the factory. Better to be safe than sorry. It has proven superior qualities to conventional oil.I don't know about performance gains, but my car sure runs strong with it.

With that many miles you probably should NOT switch. In higher miled engines synth will cause oil leaks.

GM is also recommending petrolium based oil in the LS1 due to the oil burning issue. Running synth makes your LS1 more prone to burn oil.

Also, do NOT wait until your oil light comes on for a change. Even if you do run synth you should change your filter every 3k miles.

And check into getting your coolant system flushed. Dexcool gets realy nasty before the 150k miles they say it lasts.

At 60K, if the plugs are original, change them too. You should be able to pull a couple of easy ones to see how they look.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
GM is also recommending petrolium based oil in the LS1 due to the oil burning issue. Running synth makes your LS1 more prone to burn oil.

Interesting ... especailly since they do put M1 in the 'vette LS1s from the factory, as well as in the 2002 F-bodies ..

Yup, it is. But thats what they say. If you have the oil burning issue, switch to petro oil and it'll lessen. If you don't run what you want. The reason being is the molecuels of the synth are smaller.

I imagine I'll be going into my engine for mods before it ever really needs to be rebuilt, so it's pretty much not worth it to run synth. If you don't plan on keeping your car until it run into the ground its not worth it to run synth.

Even then, with regular oil changes using a good filter and oil, your engine will last just as long. If you're racing much you should change your oil and filter very regularly wheather its synth or not.

So would a semi synthetic be the way to go?

In my other cars, the oil gets changed a little before 3k, so this will not change in the Z. I am also not looking to mod it much (maybe exhaust, and a lid).. thats what the formula is for... :D

I use Valvoline Durablend in everything else I own. Will this be sufficient in the Z?

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Yup, it is. But thats what they say. If you have the oil burning issue, switch to petro oil and it'll lessen. If you don't run what you want. The reason being is the molecuels of the synth are smaller.

I imagine I'll be going into my engine for mods before it ever really needs to be rebuilt, so it's pretty much not worth it to run synth. If you don't plan on keeping your car until it run into the ground its not worth it to run synth.

Even then, with regular oil changes using a good filter and oil, your engine will last just as long. If you're racing much you should change your oil and filter very regularly wheather its synth or not.

Do you have an article or a link or something about GM stating that you should use a petroleum based oil instead of synthetic????? personally I have used synthetic oil all the way up to 159,000 miles on my camaro and I never had an oil leak. I think the arguement that synthetic will lead to oil leaks is a load of crap.

It looks like kiztop got the "oil change" light, and not the "low oil" light. There is NOTHING wrong with waiting until the oil change light comes on. It is just a sensor that triggers when the oil is dirty and recommended for changing.

Switching oil brands and types are what can possibly cause oil leaks. Usually its a good practice to stick with one brand of oil and keep using that for the life of the car.

I'd recommend switching to a synthetic oil now.

The advantages of synthetic are that it runs cooler, and lasts longer than regular oil. Synthetic wont break down as fast.
With synthetic oil, low temperature flow is a huge advantage for engine protection. Most engine wear can occur during the short period when the engine has started and is running but the oil has not come up to operating pressure. Synthetic oils can shorten this period of time and help protect against this type of wear. Synthetic engine oils also provide optimum protection against engine oil breakdown due to high temperature operation. Synthetic base oil is specifically engineered to resist thermal breakdown. Conventional oil, on the other hand, can only provide satisfactory protection under normal engine operation.

Nov issue of CHP, answer to a reader's question. It's probably in the TSB about the oil burning. I don't pull info out of my arse.

You switched to synth early and used it all along. The problem with leakage is if it has been petro oil switched to synth after many miles have been put on.

There is NO oil sensor that triggers the oil change light. You have no idea what you are talking about in this aspect. It is a calculation done by the cars computer based on RPM and other driving conditions. Are you going to let a mathmatical equation tell you when your oil is dirty?

Switching oil brands will not cause leaks unless you go from a decent brand to trash.

Ever have a car with an oil pressure guage? Petro oil gets moving in a second. Just switch from 10w to 5w if you're worried about it. If you really care run a block heater in the winter.

Thermal break down, lol. You listen to commercials too much. If your car overheats enough to thermally break down oil, you have other issues that you need to worry about. Tornado air claims they'll give you big HP gains, do you believe all that too?

Ya, they claim synth lasts twice as long as oil. Fine, but its the contaminates I'm worried about. Synth doesn't lessen them. I'll stick with 3k mile oil changes thank you.

Kiz, I use Valvoline in everyting too. Even in total race cars. If it has worked for all your other engines, why wouldn't it work for the LS1? I'd stick with it.

There is a pickup that got 1 million miles on his engine running regular oil with regular 3k mile change intervals. http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2001/09/10/tidbits.html
Spend more $ for oil if it makes you feel better. It makes no difference to me. Just actually know what you're talking about and don't quote all the commercials.

If your engine is already leaking, then a synthethic will leak more as it is more slippery.

(Hope I don't confuse anyone w/ my technical jargon ! :p )


I put it in my '91 Suburban with ~120K - no leak problems.

I did wind up having the cam & lifters replaced here the first of the year, but I do not believe that is oil related in any way - just my luck rearing it's ugly head. :(

(Suburban bought used w/ 105K in '99.)

Now, after the cam, oil is going somewhere at a pretty good rate - not on the driveway - perhaps being burned - who knows. :confused:

At any rate -

The SS was bought used w/ 24K on the clock, and the oriignal owner had been using Castrol 5W30.

I immediately went to syn oil.

I have no qualms about brand swapping, either - I started w/ Royal Purple, have used Mobil 1, Wal Mart SuperTech, and will be using Quaker State Full Synthetic here the next oil change as I have to buy a case to get the rebate. The remaining 6 qts will either be used for my next change, or go into the wife's car - haven't decided yet.

W/ dino oil, I go 3 months/3K miles. With synthetic, I go 4K on the WalMart stuff, and push for 5K on the "Big Brand" stuff, or 'til the light comes on, whichever is first.

I have 52K on the clock now w/ no oil leaks & have maintained the same 1/2 qt in ~3K consumption level the whole time.

Relatively speaking, oil is cheap insurance - I'd spring for the syn. :cool:

My .02.


Britt

I had a question as to weather or not this would make a difference in my car. I have a 2002 z28 and on the cap it say 5w-30 which I use regular old oil. I don't want to use regular old oil. Synthetic is waaay better. However I cannot find mobil1 5w-30 synthetic. only 10w-30 synth. Anyone know if they make it or if the weight issue will matter at all (i was told it makes a difference and would hurt the engine if the incorrect was put in)? Anyways I i'd like to use synth if i can. Anyone else run into this?

10w should be fine if you live down south and for summer up north.

Royal Purple and Redline make good synth also. Could always order it off the net if you want.

With it being a 2002 you should be low milage and not have to worry the prob I discussed earlier.

Thats just it with higher milage engines, its a crap shoot on if you start to leak or not. I know several guys that developed a leak around their seals after switching with high miles.

I have yet to develop the oil burn issue on my 00 SS, and I use regualr Valvoline w/ 33k miles. The wife's car has 115k miles and still runs strong, same oil.

Yes, you can go longer with synth, but you are still recommended to change the filter every 3k miles. It isn't the oil breaking down its the debris you have to worry about, and you need to change it more often if you race much.

Originally posted by spawnz28
I had a question as to weather or not this would make a difference in my car. I have a 2002 z28 and on the cap it say 5w-30 which I use regular old oil. I don't want to use regular old oil. Synthetic is waaay better. However I cannot find mobil1 5w-30 synthetic. only 10w-30 synth. Anyone know if they make it or if the weight issue will matter at all (i was told it makes a difference and would hurt the engine if the incorrect was put in)? Anyways I i'd like to use synth if i can. Anyone else run into this?

Check out the owner's manual - it will give the allowable viscositys.

GM launched an anti 10W40 campaign back in the 80's for added fuel mileage, and some modern motors don't have large enough drain back holes to accomodate thicker weights. :rolleyes:

But, 10W30 is not an issue.

See the bottom of this page:

http://www.idavette.net/hib/C5diy/c5diy1.htm

Britt

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Nov issue of CHP, answer to a reader's question. It's probably in the TSB about the oil burning. I don't pull info out of my arse.

-Lan01z- I didn't say you were pulling it out of your arse, but I was interested in an article or web link for something to read about.

You switched to synth early and used it all along. The problem with leakage is if it has been petro oil switched to synth after many miles have been put on.

-Lan01z- I switched to synthetic after I had 76,000 miles on the camaro, and I never had a problem with leaks. With my previous car (a mazda) I had a problem with oil leaks after I went from penzoil to valvoline.

There is NO oil sensor that triggers the oil change light. You have no idea what you are talking about in this aspect. It is a calculation done by the cars computer based on RPM and other driving conditions. Are you going to let a mathmatical equation tell you when your oil is dirty?

-Lan01z- I read in my owners manual that it has a sensor that tells when the oil is dirty. I don't car about it anyway, I never go by when it says "change oil" I just go 4500 miles every change. Where do you find your information that its calculated by the computer, i'd be interested to see that too.

Switching oil brands will not cause leaks unless you go from a decent brand to trash.

-Lan01z- Switching brands from one to another, even from trash to decent still could cause leaks because different brands of oil have different additives in the oil.

Ever have a car with an oil pressure guage? Petro oil gets moving in a second. Just switch from 10w to 5w if you're worried about it. If you really care run a block heater in the winter.

-Lan01z- Haven't had a problem with that. I run 5w.

Thermal break down, lol. You listen to commercials too much. If your car overheats enough to thermally break down oil, you have other issues that you need to worry about. Tornado air claims they'll give you big HP gains, do you believe all that too?

-Lan01z- True, i have been suckered in by dumb commercials that tell about great new stuff promising gains for cheap. I unfortunatly fell for them in the past. I actually bought one of the tornado air spinning bullcrapadoodads for my old car and I figured out after 10 minutes and driving it for an hour that it had to go. I gave that trash to one of my friends ;)

Ya, they claim synth lasts twice as long as oil. Fine, but its the contaminates I'm worried about. Synth doesn't lessen them. I'll stick with 3k mile oil changes thank you.

-Lan01z- Dude, good for you on the 3k mile change, that's a guarantee that it'll be fine and running optimal. I personally can't afford to change my synthetic every 3k and it doesn't hurt to go further anyway.

Kiz, I use Valvoline in everyting too. Even in total race cars. If it has worked for all your other engines, why wouldn't it work for the LS1? I'd stick with it.

-Lan01z- right on! Valvoline oil is the way to go. ;)

There is a pickup that got 1 million miles on his engine running regular oil with regular 3k mile change intervals. http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2001/09/10/tidbits.html
Spend more $ for oil if it makes you feel better. It makes no difference to me. Just actually know what you're talking about and don't quote all the commercials.

http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_2003_oil_monitors.htm

The same system is used in all the GM cars.

Didn't mean to come across as an arse earlier.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_2003_oil_monitors.htm

The same system is used in all the GM cars.

Didn't mean to come across as an arse earlier.

Thanks for the article :cool:
It's cool man, no problem.

I bought my Camaro used and it's at about 50,000 miles. I switched to synthetic oil a few months ago, haven't seen any leaking yet. I was told that if any leaking did occur, I wouldn't see it right away, it would take about a thousand miles.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Yup, it is. But thats what they say. If you have the oil burning issue, switch to petro oil and it'll lessen.

Saying to switch to petro if you have oil burning issues ... is not the same thing as saying use petro because running syn makes an LS1 prone to burn oil ...

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
GM is also recommending petrolium based oil in the LS1 due to the oil burning issue. Running synth makes your LS1 more prone to burn oil.


Besides the oil consumption issues with the LS1 pretty much have been a result of problems with the rings ... which there is a TSB out on ... and dealers do replace the rings which solves the problem.

Switching to petro may mask or "lesson" the problem ... for awhile, maybe long enough for the warranty to expire ... if you're burning oil - wehter it be syn or petro - you have a problem and it is not the type of oil you are using ...

I bought my car with 30K on it. The owner had left an envelope in the glove box and the dealer left it there. In the envelope was a lot of original documentation, including the build sheet, and a several receipts for oil ... Mobil1.

Assuming it had been running synthetic for the 30K miles before I got it, I continued using M1. This car has burned 1 quart eveyr 1000 miles since day one.

I could pay the grease monkeys to rip my motor apart and change the rings, or I could just spend a little extra money adding a quart of oil every 1000 miles.

Guess which one I do ....

Switch to regular oil and see if it helps. Burning oil will foul your plugs and mess up your O2 sensors.

It isn't just the LS1 that is prone to the oil consumption problem. Trucks are having the same problem. Synth just compound the problem. It that clear enough for ya? lol

Like I said, you wanna spend extra cash running synth I could care less. I've built many engines and have raced for years and have not found enough benefit, if any at all, in synth over petrol oil for me to switch. Again with regular oil changes and good filters, my engine on plain petrolium based oil will last as long as your engine on synth.

I have seen on the same engine running the same weight of oil that Valvoline keeps higher pressure after it heats up.

I used Valvoline and Castrol synthetic blend oils for the last 30000 miles - no problems at all ... if you change the oil and filter every 3000 miles this oil is just fine.

You might benefit from synthetic oil if you plan to drive the car into the ground (more than 200000 miles) - with "normal" TLC your engine will get there with regular oil as well....

In the winter (depens on where you live, you may not have a winter) the synthetic oil is better - at minus 10-20 F it lubricates a lot better than regular oil.... well, I don't have that problem here in FL:)

Does anyone have any actual reports on synth vs. petro? I bought my Z with 14000 miles on it, the previous owner used mobil 1 synth and so do I, no leaks or other probs, but it is quite pricey. But if Greed4Speed is just old fashoned and doesnt like technology I want a little proof, my neighbors head he believes that Im going to wash the paint off my car. And some one else on here asked about blends, any complaints on that.

i'm running synth and i only burn oil at high rpm, thats normal right, or do the dinos not burn oil at high rpm?

Anyone else have some solid info on Synthetic blend oils??

If I was old fashioned and didn't like technology I'd still be driving my 70 SS instead of my 00 SS. :rolleyes: It was paid for and parts were a whole lot cheaper.

Just in my experience with building and racing, you'll tear into your engine, something will break from racing, or you'll sell your car long before what type of oil you ran becomes an issue. That is if you actually take care of your engine.

Most people who run synth run it longer, but they don't change the filter every 3k as recommended either. The way I look at it, if your filter needs to be changed your oil does too and synth is too expensive for every 3k, and at oil change intervals that short petrol oil works great.

Want info? Do a search on the web. Just make sure the source is reputable and not funded by one side or the other. I've just seen plenty of engines get thrashed on and still last well over 200K miles on regular oil. By that point I'd be looking to rebuild it anyway.

I haven't read all the replies, but thought I would add.

When I used AmsOil and M1 in my 95Z, I would always burn it. It would be at least 1/2 quart. I swore by synthetic.

Not anymore.

When I switched to Havoline 10-30 in my LT1, I stopped burning oil, and had a lot better oil pressure. Not that it was bad in the first place, but holds higher pressure now, when it is warm.

I also have a 99 TA w/ 39k on it, and I plan on putting Havoline in it, but 5-30 instead.

If you read the Chiltons manual for 93+ F-bodies, it advises against synthetic, unless all you do is highway driving. They said for stop and go traffic, city driving, ect. that reg. oil was best, and held up better.

Try it, and I bet you won't burn any. BTW, I probably shouldn't be saying this yet....but in my 99 TA, my oil level is always at the highest full mark, top of the xxxxxx's. And it has about 2500k on it, and it a daily driver.

Either way, I just think synthetic is a way for companies to get more $$ off us.

I am not dissing synthetic....I am just voicing my expierence.

I stumbled across this : http://www.viperclub.org/articles/oilfaq.html


Fairly long article, but this caught my eye:



Synthetics are a special case. Because the base oil characteristics, the synthetic fluid needs far less VII, so synthetic oils are inherently shear stable. The base oil is highly resistant to oxidation, although mineral oils contain anti-oxidant additives that provide adequate protection. Synthetic base oils, however, are not good solvents, so additional dispersants must be added to provide adequate cleanliness performance. And since the price of additives and the price of the synthetic base oil are similar, it does not cost substantially more to use a higher additive treat rate in a synthetic oil formulation, making it more difficult to make accurate assumptions about their performance without actual testing. Two areas that do make synthetics superior are the ultra low temperature performance, when it will flow at temperatures you wouldn't drive in, and in volatility, meaning it will not vaporize at engine operating temperatures. This resistance to vaporization is noticed as reduced oil consumption compared to a mineral oil.




Interesting, no ? ;)

Britt

Originally posted by Greed4Speed

Just in my experience with building and racing, you'll tear into your engine, something will break from racing, or you'll sell your car long before what type of oil you ran becomes an issue. That is if you actually take care of your engine.



Those are some real world words of wisdom.

I have over 70K miles on my '98 TA. The last couple of years, I have run the crap out of it at road course venues.

I run Havoline 10W40
6qts when I daily drive and 7 qts when on a road course.

I change the oil and filter just prior to a road course event and immediately after.

ANY quality, name brand motor oil, of the proper viscosity will work great in an engine. When damge occurs is when the oil is dirty with suspended contamination or the chemical make-up is altered due to heat exposure.

If you keep clean, fresh, quality oil in the car, you will be fine, regardless of it's chemical make up.

My 2 cents

Originally posted by mitchntx

If you keep clean, fresh, quality oil in the car, you will be fine, regardless of it's chemical make up.



:thumb:

Ok, sythetic oil is better for an engine - at least there are no disadvantages... if you burn more oil, ok , keep adding oil..... it's still lubricating very good..... BUT : think about the money and if you really benefit from this oil.

6qt syth oil = 33 $ incl filter

6qt reg oil = 13$ incl filter

Let's say you drive the car 200000 miles and change the oil every 3K - that are 66.6 oil changes

synth oil = 2197.8$
reg oil = 865.8$

For the difference of 1332$ you can replace a lot of parts which would be necessary anyway - even with synth oil.....

Just my two cents....

Here's another one for everybody who's interessted - the statement at the bottom is interessting: the oil for 25000/35000 or 1/year..... what a BS..... but the rest is worth reading....


http://my.execpc.com/~koch-ent/myths.htm

FWIW ...

In my wifes old Lumina, which I finally traded with 260,000 miles, I used Mobil 1.

She put 30K a year on the car.

I changed the filter every month and added a quart of oil. I changed the oil once a year.

Keep the oil clean ... that is the key ...

I've run Valvoline 5w-30 since the first oil change @ 3000 miles. Same every 3k since. I lose little to no oil on my '01 LS1 A4 and it's clean, clean, clean in there. Motor's running smooth and strong @ 32,000 miles.

I also have a '59 project truck that has a rebuilt and built-up motor in it. I complement oil changes with Lucas oil additive. Good for the valve seals and REALLY helps the motor purr smoothly. So maybe instead of running 100% synthetic oil in your 60k Camaro, you should look into running a good brand name petroleum-based motor oil + Lucas (or similar)???

You seem pre-sold on using 100% synthetics, but that may not be the best way to go as noted by previous reply's to your thread. Hope this helps you decide which route is best for you :D

Have fun, be safe!
Daryl

i've used 5w-30 synth, 5w-30 dino, and am currently using 5w-40 synth. oil consumption, while not bad, has remained a fairly constant 1 qt. every 1.5-2k miles. i think the "5w" is the culprit.

a fellow i know that open-road races a mallett 'vette swears that using half 5w-30 and half 15w-50 m1 will dramatically reduce oil consumption in the ls1. however, according to him, the resulting thicker oil will loose about 5-7hp over a 5w-30 or 10w-30 energy conserving oil.