New to the LS1, what does it take to perform?

I'm sort of new to the LS1 cars...

If someone would care to entertain some purely hypothetical questions please do... I'm looking for a "window answer". You just have to relatively be in the ball park.

What would a '98 Z run with a 3200 stall vigilante converter, simple bolt-ons (filter, lid, muffler, tb bypass, pcm flash), and full length headers run? These modifications along with temporary removal of rear seats, passenger seat, spare, jack and the like. Say loose 150-ish pounds.

Would this dip into the mid 11's without much work? This is, of course, assuming no tire slippage and good conditions. Our local track is 14 feet above sea level.

Okay, I know this is an ignorant question so don't flame me too hard. I did do a search, but didn't get the info I was looking for.

Ben T.

With no tire spin and a 3200 stall I hope your planning on drag radials to that list of mods or you'll be quite dissapointed. I would also recommend a girdle for the rear end at the very least if you cant afford a new rear. With all that your looking at about a low 12 second possibly high 11 sec car. With a 3.73 gear added to your mod list it will consistently pull 11s.

Yeah, why have the stall with no tires?

It envolved M/T with an 8.8" rear. That's what I meant by "no slippage".

The 8.8" would have only a slightly increased parasitic loss so I just summed it up how I did.

Just bolt-ons and a stall seem to be worth a lot! Try this with a 23* cylinder head equiped LT1! What a great platform to work from these LS1's offer.

Ben T.

Bolt on LS1's have been put in to the 11's by plenty of guys.

NO way the car would be any where near a mid 11 sec car. If that was the case then 90% of all the LS1's out there would be running those numbers. I would say that 12.5-12.7 range on a good day with good tires.

I'm guessing low 12's with the weight reduction and depending on how you drive.

its gona be low 12's all day long

HOLLA

Originally posted by 2slow4u
NO way the car would be any where near a mid 11 sec car. If that was the case then 90% of all the LS1's out there would be running those numbers. I would say that 12.5-12.7 range on a good day with good tires.

I agree ;)

Marc

You need more then drag radials, converter, gears, headers on an LS1 to run 11s, mabey add some stage 2 heads and a cam and u might runs 11s. And the seats, spare tire and jack isnt near 150lbs, thats not enough weight reduction to matter.


The easiest way to run 11s is drag radials, full exhaust, lid and nitrous.

I say you are 12.5 range with that setup. I can not see any way you would touch 11's yet without at least adding a cam. A 99 A4 hits mid 13's and all the bolton's (lid, headers, catback, ect) will get that down to 13.0 (maybe 12.9). Then the converter with tires should knock off a full .5 and wolaa 12.5 second pass. Maybe with good temperatures and a sweet launch I could see a 12.2 pass.

I just don't see an 11 second pass happening without adding something to that list to get a few more tenths taken off. A nice 224/224 cam should do it or a sweet 100 shot of N20 will soar you into the 11's. But anything is possible so good luck.

hows 12.3 at 108 with a 1.70 60 foot sound :-).....i just did it today....mods in sig

Originally posted by 94ZRiCeKiLr
hows 12.3 at 108 with a 1.70 60 foot sound :-).....i just did it today....mods in sig

:D Thats awsome if tru!

i'm new to the LS1 too but i'm curious to why this was said A 99 A4 hits mid 13's and all the bolton's (lid, headers, catback, ect) will get that down to 13.0 (maybe 12.9).

when i've seen LS1 TA's run 13.3's bone stock, no bolt ons at all

unless the TA's are faster (with the same motor?) then it sounds to me your sayin that adding a lid, headers, and a catback will only gain you .3 of a second? sorry, but i smell some bull**** there :)

i think some folks skiped the part where he said "no slippage" and the part where he said his track is near sea level

i would think a 3200 converter alone would get him in the mid 12's if he hooked up, but thats based on a 13.3 stock run, cause i can tell a huge difference in the acceleration when my TA gets past 3,000rpm

Originally posted by camaro81
i'm new to the LS1 too but i'm curious to why this was said

when i've seen LS1 TA's run 13.3's bone stock, no bolt ons at all

unless the TA's are faster (with the same motor?) then it sounds to me your sayin that adding a lid, headers, and a catback will only gain you .3 of a second? sorry, but i smell some bull**** there :)

i think some folks skiped the part where he said "no slippage" and the part where he said his track is near sea level

i would think a 3200 converter alone would get him in the mid 12's if he hooked up, but thats based on a 13.3 stock run, cause i can tell a huge difference in the acceleration when my TA gets past 3,000rpm

And I've seen bone stock ls1's run 13.7 before. What exactly is your point? Note that I said a 99 meaning no ls6 intake. I said auto meaning extra drivetrain HP loss. I said average meaning some do better but some do worse. And I didn't say it but also factored in street tires.

I never said adding a lid catback and headers was only good for .3 seconds. I said the bolt-ons were good for .5 or .6 seconds. You then argued that my starting number was off so if your gonna quote me then at least try and get it right. But if you think a 3200 stall TC can drop .8 then the bull**** is coming from another direction. A 3200 converter is good for .4 or .5 reduction. That is certainly worth it's weight in gold but not quite the .8 you seem to think it can do. My estimates are realistic for a pre-01 LS1 A4 that is AVERAGE.

Now look at my car. It's a 99. It's an A4. It's got lid, exhaust and CAI. Look at my time. 13.5 on a 2.1 60'. Now if I get the 60' down to 2.0 which is about all I can hope for on street tires then I'm hitting maybe a 13.3. Now if I add headers and maybe the pulley I should be able to hit 12.9 or so. Then a 3200-3600 TC is well known for dropping .5 on Drag Radials. That brings me down to 12.4 range. Lets see, 12.4 with bolt-ons and a mid size TC on a pre 01 car. It's almost like I knew what I was talking about.

If his car is a factory freak then his numbers may be better. If his car is a little slower then average his numbers could be higher. If his car is average he can see low to mid 12's with the basic bolt-ons, mild converter and Nittos or BFG DR.

Now if he gets every possible bolt-on, 3.42 or 3.73 gears, ET streets and a 3800-4000 stall TC then I can maybe see a very low 12 second pass or even high 11's with good weather. But my estimates in my first post were based on bolt-ons, A streetable converter and drag radials.

Originally posted by KamaroL98
:D Thats awsome if tru!



i swear its true.....i'd scan my slip if possible but im on a laptop with no scanner available...


more exact numbers were....


1.70 sec 60 foot
5.03 sec 330 foot
7.85 sec 1/8 mile
85.91 1/8 mph
10.244 sec 1000 foot
12.33 sec 1/4 ET
107.59 1/4 mile trap speed.


just thought i would post an example of the exact combination u guys are discussing....

P.S. i think the car had a high 12.20 in it....but i didnt get to make another pass.

That would be a low 12 second setup with tires...all day.

You LT1 guys are retarded.

well, i put "i'm new to the ls1 also" at the top of my post as a disclaimer, i have no experience with this motor at all, i'm just speculating, i realize theres a lot of children on this board that own this car so i'm not sure what to take as fact, though i am very experienced at the track, and your ET looks slow for that mph, and theres a lot more factors to worry about other than street tires drivetrain loss....

And I've seen bone stock ls1's run 13.7 before. What exactly is your point? Note that I said a 99 meaning no ls6 intake. I said auto meaning extra drivetrain HP loss. I said average meaning some do better but some do worse. And I didn't say it but also factored in street tires.

i know someone with a stock 98 trans am on street tires, bone stock without a single bolt on, with an automatic that would run 13.3's all day long on a cool night, the very worst it would run was 13.6's and that was in the heat, this person was a bracket racer at Rockingham Dragway and ran those numbers consistantly for 2 years, i assume a z28 should run the same as a TA?

But if you think a 3200 stall TC can drop .8 then the bull**** is coming from another direction. A 3200 converter is good for .4 or .5 reduction. That is certainly worth it's weight in gold but not quite the .8 you seem to think it can do.

this was just an assumption, i was drawin from experience with my 81 where the torque peaks at a lower rpm than than the LS1 and i picked up .5 in the 1/4 mile with a 2,000 converter vs a stock one, unless i'm proved otherwise i have no reason to believe a 3200 stall wouldnt pick up .5 - .8 of a second

Now look at my car. It's a 99. It's an A4. It's got lid, exhaust and CAI. Look at my time. 13.5 on a 2.1 60'. Now if I get the 60' down to 2.0 which is about all I can hope for on street tires then I'm hitting maybe a 13.3. Now if I add headers and maybe the pulley I should be able to hit 12.9 or so. Then a 3200-3600 TC is well known for dropping .5 on Drag Radials. That brings me down to 12.4 range. Lets see, 12.4 with bolt-ons and a mid size TC on a pre 01 car. It's almost like I knew what I was talking about.

what altitude is your track? just because your runnin slow times because you cant get it to hook up doesnt mean everyone else is, some ppl know how to handle their traction problems

Originally posted by camaro81
well, i put "i'm new to the ls1 also" at the top of my post as a disclaimer, i have no experience with this motor at all, i'm just speculating, i realize theres a lot of children on this board that own this car so i'm not sure what to take as fact, though i am very experienced at the track, and your ET looks slow for that mph, and theres a lot more factors to worry about other than street tires drivetrain loss....



i know someone with a stock 98 trans am on street tires, bone stock without a single bolt on, with an automatic that would run 13.3's all day long on a cool night, the very worst it would run was 13.6's and that was in the heat, this person was a bracket racer at Rockingham Dragway and ran those numbers consistantly for 2 years, i assume a z28 should run the same as a TA?



this was just an assumption, i was drawin from experience with my 81 where the torque peaks at a lower rpm than than the LS1 and i picked up .5 in the 1/4 mile with a 2,000 converter vs a stock one, unless i'm proved otherwise i have no reason to believe a 3200 stall wouldnt pick up .5 - .8 of a second



what altitude is your track? just because your runnin slow times because you cant get it to hook up doesnt mean everyone else is, some ppl know how to handle their traction problems


Yes I know you stated you are new to ls1's and I would have not been so defensive if you haddn't insulted me with that smells like bull**** comment. You were out of line wether you choose to admit that or not. Now on to your rebuttals which are just a bit off.

Yes my ET was a bit slow due to my 2.1 60' time. If you talk to the guys here in the drag racing section of this forum as much as I have you would know that ls1's on street tires can not get better then 1.9 60' and that is harder for the A4's to do stock. 2.0 60' times are more likely on regular street tires and a stock torque converter. That means I should be able to cut my 60' time down to 2.0 which should shave .2 off my previous time. That is why my estimate seems good at 13.3 for what I can do with lid, exhaust and cai. It's the tires and converter that are holding me back but I'm working on replacing both.

Yes TA's and Z28's should definately run the same if all else is equal (weight, transmission, driver ability, tires, hp, ect). I don't doubt that you know someone who runs 13.3 stock all day. I do to and he's a 99 but he's also a M6 and that is why he runs 13.3 (best was 13.1 I believe) stock all day. I've seen stock autos run 13.6-13.8 all day and others run 13.3-13.5 all day. It depends on the weather and some are just stonger from the factory then others are. So yes some run 13.3, some run 13.5 and some run 13.7. It depends on the car, track elevation and weather.

Well your wrong on the torque converter. I can't argue your 81's success because I don't know that engine or those torque converters but I do know LS1's. A 2000 stall torque converter is only 200 over stock (which is 1800). You would gain absolutely nothing with that small of a stall in a LS1. It's considered a general rule of thumb to not go less then 2800 stall so you can feel a difference. Now based on what I have seen and read in peoples comments on yanks and TCi converters you can expect .3 or .4 improvement from a 2800-3200 stall. But the mid-size street/strip converters are 3400-3600 stall and are good for .5 reduction in ET's. I'm not flaming you but ask any of the big dogs in the drag racing section here or ls1tech.com and they will tell you the same thing. 3500 cstall 2.2-2.5 str is good for .5 and that's about it (not like that's not enough lol). But there is no way a 3200 stall will net .8 seconds by itself. A 4000-4400 stall can get that gain but not a 3200 (at least not on LS1's).

The track I attend is 600 feet above sea level. That's not good but not bad either. Ok I have traction problems. Well DUH I am on street tires. EVERY ONE who runs on street tires with 300 rwhp has traction problems. Hence why stock cars and stock tires are only good for 1.9 or 2.0 60' times. Yes people do solve thier traction problems as will I soon when I switch my rear tires to drag radials. ET streets are even better still for traction but I want a tire I can run on the street also. If I had drag radials now then yes my ET would improve nicely as my 60' time would improve nicely. But my car is on street tires so that is not a valid point when analizing my track time.

My points are valid and accurate. You don't have to accept them but that does not make them any less true. I'm not angry anymore and I'm not trying to flame you but .8 reduction on a 3200 stall is unrealistic by itself and 13.5 for a stock a4 pre 01 ls1 on street tires, slight track elevation and a non-perfect air is normal. It's not good, it's not bad it's just normal.

If you talk to the guys here in the drag racing section of this forum as much as I have you would know that ls1's on street tires can not get better then 1.9 60' and that is harder for the A4's to do stock. 2.0 60' times are more likely on regular street tires and a stock torque converter.

depends on what day you go, most of the auto TA's ive seen run on regular race night have no problems hittin 1.9 60' times on street tires

A 2000 stall torque converter is only 200 over stock (which is 1800). You would gain absolutely nothing with that small of a stall in a LS1.

re read my post, i only refered to my car with the 2000 stall converter, i said nothing of putting one like that behind an LS1

i compared the 2000 stall upgrade to my camaro with a 3200 stall upgrade to an LS1, i believe the 3200 stall on the LS1 would get more of an ET gain than the 2000 stall gave me on my 81

Originally posted by camaro81
depends on what day you go, most of the auto TA's ive seen run on regular race night have no problems hittin 1.9 60' times on street tires



re read my post, i only refered to my car with the 2000 stall converter, i said nothing of putting one like that behind an LS1

i compared the 2000 stall upgrade to my camaro with a 3200 stall upgrade to an LS1, i believe the 3200 stall on the LS1 would get more of an ET gain than the 2000 stall gave me on my 81

I read your posts and you referred to a 2000 stall converter gaining you .5 on your 81. That's fine and dandy. You said a 3200 stall can gain you .5 to .8 on a LS1. Now the reality is .5 is possible but .8 is NOT. I'm not saying .8 gains from a torque converter is impossible. But it would take a bigger stall then 3200 to get that kind of a gain. Here is something you can try if you don't believe me. Go to ls1tech.com and register (if your not all ready). Post a new thread in the automatic trans section asking what 3200 stall converter is best to gain .8 in the 1/4 mile. Then wait and see what the responses are. I'm not lying to you man, if you want .5 gains then a 3200 might do it and 3500 definately can. If you want .8 gains then you have to go to a less streetable 4200 or 4400 stall converter.


All I can say about 1.9 60' stock ta's is there would have to be a reason they hit that well. Maybe your track is closer to sea level and cooler climates. I went on a 80 degree day at 600 above sealevel. Maybe not all were regualr street tires. Maybe the track prep is better. I can't tell you why you see those times but I can assure you I do not see them. M6's yes but autos on stock tires and converters are 2.0 60' times. I'm not saying 1.9 is impossible but it is uncommon.

I'm at a total lose here. If you truly expect to see a .8 gain from a 3200 stall in your LS1 then all I can say is good luck. But I wouldn't call the manufacturer and complain if the converter does not meet that goal. 3200 stall is considered a more street then strip converter. Don't take my word for it, ask around drivetrain secions of forums and do searches. If you want to keep arguing then I'll keep going I suppose but it's getting us nowhere.

BTW I would highly recommend the TCI Super street fighter 3500 converter. It's been called by many the best bang for the buck street/strip converter out there. It'll hit hard so you would need good tires but it might get you .6 gains and I have heard of as good as 1.56 60' times on that verter although 1.7 is more common. That's what I'm getting and for $500 bucks it's a great price.

The big verter guys always say get one stall higher then you originally planned so you don't have to upgrade it later. Good Luck on your cars.

hey guys.. i don't mean to interject.... but i'm a complete idiot with strip/drag racing... or quarter mile runs... i'm curious as to why street tires don't get you good traction... is it because the compound of the rubber doesn't grab like drag tires? i dono.. that's why i'm asking LOL... also how does a T/C get you better times.. is it because it launches you in at a higher rpm which is closer to the peak in the power band? and how does it get you a faster time? is it the same reason? sorry to ask stupid questions.. but i wana race my 02 Z and would like to do well... so any and all help is appreciated :D oh.. btw... you guys are awesome :bow:

street tires are usually made of a harder compound, but most of the ppl you hear complain about traction problems are the guys drivin near stock cars on a regular test and tune night that like to roll through the water, or just smoke'em before going up to the line :) all you need to do is spin'em enough to get the crap off of'em and stage your car

my '81 would run 8.8's at some tracks on street tires and it dyno'd at 303ft lbs of torque @ 2300rpm on 195/70/14 tires, tho some crappy tracks required my drag radials

also how does a T/C get you better times.. is it because it launches you in at a higher rpm which is closer to the peak in the power band? and how does it get you a faster time?

ya, what you said :P you basically answered your own question, it gets you a faster time because you leave the line closer to your peak torque, its kinda like dumpin the clutch with a manual

Originally posted by 2slow4u
NO way the car would be any where near a mid 11 sec car. If that was the case then 90% of all the LS1's out there would be running those numbers. I would say that 12.5-12.7 range on a good day with good tires.

2slow4u...I need to get in touch with you..please give me an email or IM me on AOL..
AIM:Evost7 Email:Evost7@aol.com
about your SES problem! Thanks!

Originally posted by 94ZRiCeKiLr
hows 12.3 at 108 with a 1.70 60 foot sound :-).....i just did it today....mods in sig

How's a 12.300 @ 110 without headers or an LS6 intake on a 1.66 sixty foot.
700' elevation, 80 degrees out. Day before yesterday.

Give me long tubes and 14' elevation and I'll run 11s all day.

Originally posted by chevyzman1998
its gona be low 12's all day long

HOLLA you must be an oregon kid if youre still saying holla!:p

"How's a 12.300 @ 110 without headers or an LS6 intake on a 1.66 sixty foot.
700' elevation, 80 degrees out. Day before yesterday.

Give me long tubes and 14' elevation and I'll run 11s all day."


The guy that originally posted with the question mentioned a 3200 converter. Of course your gonna be pullin 60's like that you have a st3800 verter, HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.

My guess is with those mods + an ls6 intake, you will run a 12.2732 @ 110.4236 mph with a 1.6971 60' time.

I would remove front swaybar as well as run on a 1/4 of gas. Low 12's would be possible.. Possibly high 11's with skinnies up front, and lightweight wheels with et streets out back and a little more weight reduction. I wouldn't worry about the rear too much until you make a little more power (i.e. h/c), stock rear can handle quite a few passes at low power levels on et streets, bfgs, etc. so long as its an automatic. In automatic cars, the transmission absorbs most the shock.