coolant smell/loss

I need some advanced help on this one:

Ever since I bought some used GTP heads I've been experiencing coolant loss issues and then more recently the smell of coolant while stopping after driving....

Admittedly I made a few mistakes upon the initial install and then the ensuing R&R's (first the driver's side then months later the passenger). The initial install I did not clean the threads in the block.... bought some thread cleaners and used those from then on.... The passenger R&R I made the mistake of hitting the head surface with a standard abrasives gasket removal disk - probably took some material between the cylinders....

I finally got sick of it and pulled the motor this summer for a low-CR 383 rebuild. The heads were pressure checked and put on the milling machine. The block was decked. I used Fel Pro 1074 head gaskets. Been using ARP head bolts since the initial install. I wiped both surfaces off with brake cleaner on a rag.... Put the head gaskets on right. Put the heads on. One mistake I had previously made was assuming the top row of head bolts was blind, and thus using moly lube instead of thread sealant on them. This time I used thread sealant on all the bolts (after cleaning them of course). I torqued the bolts in 3 steps in the proper pattern up to the ARP-recommended 60 lbs-ft.

Upon initial fire-up I kept it at 1800-2500 rpm for 20 minutes in the garage. I did not smell coolant at that point. Then changed the oil. I just drove the car last night for 60 miles and I was smelling coolant nearly every time I stopped at an intersection. Windows were open and the heater was off.

I checked the coolant level this morning and it was about 1 inch down. Not really significant, but I am really worried that the coolant smell did not go away. I am thinking that if I have a head gasket leaking the cooling system is getting pressurized and blowing bubbles into the overflow.... Is there a way to check this? I do have a cooling system pressure tester but haven't tried it yet since it's at a friends house....

Does anyone have any insight or recommendations? This is driving me crazy!

Thanks,
Joe

Joe, sounds like you did everything right so I dont belive it is a head gasket leak....I may be wrong. You may not have gotten the cooling system full which is why it was low. Run the engine with the radiator cap off and continue to bleed it untill your sure there is no air in it and then bleed it some more. Dont panic just yet. Keep us posted .

Not that I think this is it - but does anyone put oil/assembly lube under the washer of the head bolt? The ARP instructions make no mention of that, although the Fel-Pro instructions do.... I followed the ARP instructions.

I did notice that when I was torqueing the heads down that the washer usually spun with the bolt head.

Joe

Yes ......and the torque specs for the ARP bolts are with the ARP molly lube 60# in 3 passes. With 30w oil its 65#. Your probably still ok if you torqued them slowly.....you may want to retorque them now.

Actually one should be using thread sealant on all the head bolts (ARP's instructions say to use either/or and 60 lbs-ft). The top row of bolts may look blind, but they are not guaranteed to be.....

In my previous post I was referring to putting oil/assembly lube under the washer, not on the threads. ARP does not tell you to do that, but Fel-Pro does....

Originally posted by jgeorger
Actually one should be using thread sealant on all the head bolts (ARP's instructions say to use either/or and 60 lbs-ft). The top row of bolts may look blind, but they are not guaranteed to be.....

In my previous post I was referring to putting oil/assembly lube under the washer, not on the threads. ARP does not tell you to do that, but Fel-Pro does....


I know what you were talking about.....and yes I know to use thread sealant on all head bolts and intake bolts. Ive biult several engines and have never had a gasket install problem....its simple and striaght foward.....I use the moly lube under the washers when torqueing the ARP head bolts or any head bolts for that matter.....I should have said it better the first time I guess.

I figured that's what you meant, I just like keeping things accurate for those future searchers of the archives.... I did not know the top row was not guaranteed to be blind; consequently on my previous head installs I had used moly lube on them.... Guess that wasn't my problem.

I did some further testing today with my cooling system pressure
tester. We pressurized the system to about 20 psi - and of course it
dropped, slowly. After driving the car a little more this past week,
there is just too much water vapor in the exhaust to not be burning
coolant. We found one of the small hoses from the water pump was
leaking due to a worn spring clamp. Replaced with a worm clamp and it
held. Pressure continued to drop as expected. Pulled all the plugs
while leaving the system pressurized. It would hold for a long time
around 15 psi or so. When I got to driver's side #1 - splurt! - coolant
came pouring out! Finished removing all plugs and then cranked the
engine. Only #1 is compromised.

I just don't see how it could be the gasket. It seems the
consensus is that I did everything right. Perhaps my shop did not pressure test
the heads properly or at all? I am not sure if they will own up to it
or just try to blame my install.

I had a buddy that had a heads and cam motor a while back, whether this is true or not I dont know. From what I have hurd the castings on the LT1 heads dont carry a lot of material between the ports and the cooling jackets. Excessive or impropar porting will cause a hair line fracture from pressure or heat. This was the case on his motor, the local shop ported the heads, X amount of miles down the road the head fractured on one of the intake ports. The shop ended up bitting the cost. I have seen 2 cases of this in the past. I have not hurd any recent occurances but that could be because most around here buy AFR's from the get go.

I think its obvious what you have 2 do.

Originally posted by sleeperz28
Excessive or impropar porting will cause a hair line fracture from pressure or heat. This was the case on his motor, the local shop ported the heads, X amount of miles down the road the head fractured on one of the intake ports.
I think its obvious what you have 2 do.

Yep....real possibility...get the heads checked out. Also when you pull the heads inspect that area of the gasket/head/block carefully for signs of gasket compromise.

After long last I found the cause of my coolant loss problem. There is a crack
in my #1 cylinder exhaust port. We stripped the motor down -
intake, headers, rockers, but left the coolant in. We then put the
pressure checker on and pressurized the cooling system. With the valves
closed, that would segregate the leak into either the intake port,
combustion chamber, or exhaust port. If it was the head gasket, it
would leak into the combustion chamber. Also, that is the least likely
area to have a crack because it's just polished in there - no major
metal removed like the ports.

Upon pressurization we saw coolant coming out of the exhaust port. Upon
closer inspection I could see a mist swirling out of the port. Then I
saw an extremely fine beam of coolant shooting out. I got a mirror out
and I could actually see the coolant shooting out of an invisible crack
in multiple extremely fine lines like that. So we pulled the head off and
it goes back to the machine shop tomorrow. I had had these heads pressure checked - they did admit the possibility of a crack only showing itself when the head was torqued down. Not sure if that's true or they're just trying to cover their ass.... At least I am happy about finally finding this coolant loss. These heads have been a lot of trouble ever since I got them....

These are GTP heads - the same thing happened to Alex A.

About how much should it cost to get them fixed?

Glad you found it....

Sometimes it cant be fix depends on it can get it with a welder. My buddies could not be fixed the machine shop that ported them had to eat the cost