Things gone right...

K, I'm working on this spreadwsheet too.

Start contributing please, this is your chance to have your voice heard.

Please do not forget the earlier generations - they had some nifty features too.

Loads of power for the V8.
T-Tops!!!
Low and wide.
Not too small.
Sleek, modern styling.
Aggressive looks.
Cockpit-like interior layout.
ABS.
ASR.
High crash ratings.
Excellent fuel economy to power ratio.

here's a Linky (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158756) to what has been discussed before.

(4th Gen wise, anyhoo.)


Britt

THIRD GEN: Color-keyed interiors. My red '87 came with a red interior.

THIRD GEN: Flared fenders (third-gen style) were great.

THIRD/FOURTH: Hatchback body style from third and fourth generation models-- sportier looks and more utility.

Originally posted by NEWBIE T/A
here's a Linky (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158756) to what has been discussed before.

(4th Gen wise, anyhoo.)


Britt


It wasn't extensive enough. That's why I reopened this subject.

PacerX needs more data...

Any particular format?

Originally posted by cmc
Any particular format?

Nope, this one is easy.

I'd appreciate an indication of what generation you are referring to though (1st,2nd,3rd,4th).

Big block option (1st and 2nd gen)
Option galore (1st gen)
6spd (4th gen)
1LE (3rd and 4th gen)

(2nd Gen)

Headroom, even w/ the t-tops on.

Kick azz instrument panel in the T/A's - not so much the engine turned dash (although I liked that ! :D ) but just the general layout.

General engine compartment layout - made access fairly easy w/ the long snout (hood) .

Nice looking cloth interiors (hobnail ) when new or kept cleaned - tan seems to be a real turd later in life if not kept up w/ , but black (as in my ' 79 Black & Gold special edition) lloked and felt great all the way 'til it was stolen ... :( )


(3rd Gen )

Handling and performance packages, such as found on the IROCS. Pretty much everyone knew what it was and what it could do. Important, because ...

(4th Gen)

Early 4th gen advertising was very creative.

"Rocket Science" theater trailers, the little kid in the bedroom ID'ng a Z28 by the sound, etc.

Towards the end of the 4th gens life if you even saw a T.V. ad w/ a Camaro or 'Bird in it it was something to write home about. :p

Underhood insulation - seems like a good way to keep the paint from being broiled off inside out, although it was dropped MY ' 00 and (as far as I know) never offered w/ the optional fiberglass hoods.

Traction Control - didn't buy a ' 99 Z28 new 'cuz it did not have it.
I keep mine on almost all the time .

Camaro dash/console cubbyhole (N/A covertible) - handy spot for the cell phone.

LS1 power - what made me willing to overlook all the other "flaws" in the cars to begin with ! :bow:


Britt

1st gen:

Build yourself a Camaro any way you want.

2nd gen:

Uncompromised styling for early cars.

3rd gen:

World class looks and handling.

4th gen:

LS1.

1st gen:

Unique engines like the 302 sbc

FIRST GEN: and probably others: Bright blue, eye-catching bowtie logo. Not that bland pewter look. Hopefully GM can make an exception and use this emblem again on the 5th gen.

Other than the fact that after shutting off the car the radio stayed on until you opened the door, there were'nt really any "surprises and delights" on my 4th Gen. Sorry. GM didn't really sweat the details.

The Mustang has a nice powerpoint inside the console which works well with a cell phone.

I could give about a page and a half on the wife's VW, though. That thing has nifty features out the ass, and many of them are free or very cheap to do.

Some that are inexpensive that I particularly like:

-When you lock the doors with the Fob the car beeps and the lights flash. If ANYTHING is not right (hood, door, trunk not closed all the way or some light is on, etc.) the car will NOT beep. This has saved me from a dead battery at least twice.

-If you leave the keys in the ignition and the radio on, the thing will actually wise up and stop beeping after a minute or so.

-The odometer stays visible with the car off.

-You can turn the radio on without a key in the ignition. It will just turn on with the power button. It will play for an hour and then cut off to protect the battery.

-The steering wheel tilts and telescopes with a simple mechanism.

-The mini visor in the middle over the rear view mirror.

-The floormats attach securely to the floor.

Sexy styling. I'm sorry but I love the look of the LT-1 4th gens! :D

Originally posted by WERM

-The floormats attach securely to the floor.


That would be nice.

1st Gen: Cool options and models that have purpose.
2nd Gen: Can't think of anything.
Third Gen: Everything.
4th Gen: Always faster than the competition.

Okey dokey, I guess I need to specify what I need a little better:

"Hella-cool exterior looks" is basically worthless. If you say "good options", you have to tell me PRECISELY WHICH options and WHY.

You have to be SPECIFIC. Think like an engineer and stay away from styling.

"Good sized center console storage in the 4th gen cars." is valuable.

"Excellent crankshaft strength (especially at high horsepower levels) in the LS1" is valuable.

Lessee....I've only owned 4th gens, but here's my take...

Center console storage area (though it's already been mentioned)

Fold-down rear seats add considerable utility

Utility of the hatchback design

Comfortable cloth seats - 6 way adjustable manual seats allow for quite an array of adustments.

Size of the glove compartment is entirely adequate.

Radio controls '97+ are intuitive and very easy to use - I prefer knobs to push buttons any day

Exhuast note of SS cars - aggresive, but not over the top

T-tops - when incorporated into the design from the start, they work very well and have little to no impact on chassis rigidity. Mine only leaked in hurricane force driving rain. Quite an improvement over previous versions

Available traction control - a must on RWD V8 cars, at least as an option

Rear axle ratio options - one size does not always fit all, many cars do not offer a choice

Power and Torque - goes without saying

Handling - Though it can be improved, for it's time, given it's architecture and budget constraints it was good

Corrosion control - much improved over previous generations, continue to improve on it.

Multiple DC power outlets - The cell phone always takes up one now-a-days

Multiple secondary gages - Pre-99 when they could be fairly trusted to give you a somewhat accurate picture. Make them accurate and I'll be more than happy. At least they were there though. Coolent Temp, oil pres, etc. is what I'm talking about.

Steering ratio - good heavy stearing wheel

Here are some of the things I think were done right:

1. Z28 (1st, 2nd, 3rd gens)
2. 1LE (3rd, 4th gens)
3. G92 (3rd gens)
4. B4C (3rd/4th)
5. World class styling (early 2nd gen/ 3rd gen)
6. Anyway you want it 1st gen. (A Camaro for everyone).
7. Hurst shifter
8. Optional gear ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
9. LS-1
10. T56
11. Recaros (2nd/3rd gen TA)
12. Berlinetta/Type LT (2nd/3rd)
13. Competition tire option on early SLP's
14. Cowl induction (1st, 2nd)
15. Z28 fiberglass hood with functional flaps (3rd gen)
16. F41 (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
17. Being able to tell the difference between the base and top models (early 3rd gen).
18. IROC wheels
19. ZR-1 wheels
20. Z28 steering wheel (3rd gen)
21. Anniversary models/Pace cars
22. Rag tops
23. Leather seat design on 87's
24. 1st gen Z/28 emblems
25. Being a status symbol (1st, 2nd, 3rd gens)
26. Being a performance symbol (all gens)

Things done right, and think like an engineer. :think:

A. By far and away, the LT-1 Engine of '93-97!!

1. I think the reverse flow cooling of the LT1 was a great idea, and made perfect sense in that it cools the heads first, not only helping the engine to run a high compression on regular fuel, but also keeping bore tempreatures more uniform.

2. The gear driven water pump that not only allows you to continue driving the car if the belt breaks (till the battery runs out), but because of the lack of side load from the pulley, lasts alot longer than conventional systems.

3. Finally, the opti-spark, which despite the fact that it's placement is a disaster if you have a pre-96 and the water pump develops a leak, or you wash your engine, in theory was another great idea in that moving the "distributor" to the crankshaft, you eliminate the "twisting" force of the conventional position aft of the camshaft, freeing up more power.

Sure, the LS-1 is a good engine & has more horsepower, but as far as being a breakthrough engine, it simply isn't. Also, in many ways, it took a step backwards compared to the many newsworthy features of the LT-1.



B. Other things Camaro did right:

1. The shifter "feel" is rock solid, something that's very scarce on other performance cars.

2. Despite a fuel guage seeming calibrated by a elementry school "special ed" class, the speedometer is dead on accurate (perhaps GM may consider letting the Speedo people supervise the fuel guage people closer).

3. The body structure of the 4th gen is darn near perfect as far as being solid. Not only are we talking a pretty thick guage of steel, we are also talking about double boxed door sills about as wide as your hand is long. After seeing a 4th gen cut up, then seeing other cars that way, you'll become very safety (and mortality) consious when riding in other cars.

4. Exhaust sound. Keep in mind, we are still talking about a single exhaust exhaling through cast iron manifolds.

Originally posted by NEWBIE T/A
Camaro dash/console cubbyhole (N/A covertible) - handy spot for the cell phone.


You know, when I noticed this on my car I noticed it was about the size of a pack of smokes. Made me remember my car's mullet reputation.

Originally posted by guionM
3. Finally, the opti-spark, which despite the fact that it's placement is a disaster if you have a pre-96 and the water pump develops a leak, or you wash your engine, in theory was another great idea in that moving the "distributor" to the crankshaft, you eliminate the "twisting" force of the conventional position aft of the camshaft, freeing up more power.


I have a 97 and the water pump still broke mine


My one thing I'd say they did very well is that there's an awful lot of room for as small as the car is. I've been in other cars that are sized comparably and the seating is much less comfortable. That's my contribution.

Here is something that is pretty small but i like it. It is the little side compartment under the hatch in the 3rd gens that could hold whatever. I think that it is a good idea to have a compartment in the rear for some small items that you want to keep in the car at all times, whatever it may be, and so they are not just tossed in the rear where they can move around freely.

Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL
Here is something that is pretty small but i like it. It is the little side compartment under the hatch in the 3rd gens that could hold whatever. I think that it is a good idea to have a compartment in the rear for some small items that you want to keep in the car at all times, whatever it may be, and so they are not just tossed in the rear where they can move around freely.

i'm all with you here man, i got my amp to my subs in there and sit my first aid type kit thing in on top of that ( no worry of overheating of amp) and it's sweet
that would be nice to have on a 5th gen

1st Gen - Camaro for everyone

Hell, if we want everyone to buy camaro's from the base to the top dog, y not adopt this style again? no need to go into depth here, but lets not limit ourselves to what the SS will have and what the Z28 will have. give each descernable standard features and let the consumer decide what else they want....

I havent seen any other engine bays except mine, some other 4th gens and a couple 3rd gens but I like how much space the 3rd gen has compared to the 4th. It at least gives the average guy a chance to do his own work better than the newer cars anyway. IN all honesty, I think the 3rd gen engine bay is huge at least compared to mine. Overall I like the space management of the interior and under the hood of 3rd gens.

Also, I think that the 4th gen has lots of space inside the cockpit especially the back seats which are perfect. Not too big not too small. Some "hefty" people have sit in my back seats just fine.