Baer twin piston vs Wilwood vs C5 Vs Z06

Hey guys, i was wondering how these brakes compare...

I'm looking at the baer twin piston right now.

Also, does the Z06 have a bigger rotor or something? i know the calipers are the same...

Looking at best brakes for $1300 or so. Must have blank rotors.

The C5 and ZO6 have the same size rotor (12.8"), the only difference is the color of the caliper (both are 2 piston calipers). I believe the current package price for everything for the C5 conversion is going to be between $800 - $900.

I'd recommend the Z06 brake upgrade. Best brake for the buck. Pressure cast aluminum caliper, dual piston, easy to find replacement parts thru many sources, proven performer and under 900 bux.
The rotors are 12.8" x 1.26"(322x32) with a pad area of 72 sq cm.


Compare that to a Baer/Alcon setup - 93-02 F Body $2845 rotors - 332x32 (13" x 1.25"), pad area - 64.5 sq cm.

Ya want more info, GO HERE (http://www.prospeedmotorsport.com/brake_kit_compare.htm) for a comparison chart.

the baer twin piston and C5 upgrade cost me about the same.

if Z06 brakes = C5, why the hell doe sthe Z06 stop so much faster:confused:

The ZO6 is equipped with tires with a higher coefficient of friction and more friction area (under heavy braking, it will have a slightly larger footprint if you are using the appropriate tire pressures). It is also equipped with higher coefficient of friction front brake pads, which can also take more heat before fading. This would be evident in stopping tests from high speeds, like Car and Driver's 150mph to 0 test.

Which Baer twin piston system are you referring to? They have many for the Fbody.

Bob Bishop

The Z06 is also lighter.:D

Originally posted by Grover
The C5 and ZO6 have the same size rotor (12.8"), the only difference is the color of the caliper (both are 2 piston calipers). I believe the current package price for everything for the C5 conversion is going to be between $800 - $900.

Just to follow-up on Grover's comment, the Baer GT+ system uses the same PBR two piston caliper as the current C5 brake system. GM sources the calipers from the Australian PBR company.

The rotor is different however. It is a larger two piece rotor w/Alum hat. The diameter is 13.15 inch and it has a width of 1.25 inch. The rotors are 48 vein directional for air pumping capabilities. I don't believe the stock C5 rotors are directionally veined.

The purchase price about a year ago from Baer was about $1,200.

With the larger rotor and good pads, the car will out-brake most C5s I've seen on the track.

Regards

Steve

Originally posted by Steve Dunn
Just to follow-up on Grover's comment, the Baer GT+ system uses the same PBR two piston caliper as the current C5 brake system. GM sources the calipers from the Australian PBR company.

The rotor is different however. It is a larger two piece rotor w/Alum hat. The diameter is 13.15 inch and it has a width of 1.25 inch. The rotors are 48 vein directional for air pumping capabilities. I don't believe the stock C5 rotors are directionally veined.

The purchase price about a year ago from Baer was about $1,200.

With the larger rotor and good pads, the car will out-brake most C5s I've seen on the track.

Regards

Steve

if they are identical, can i use baer rotors on the C5 brakes?

... also I know the rear C5 rotors are vented- my old company designed them :D

Unlike the LT1 and LS1 rotors, the stock C5 rotors ARE directionally vaned and are therefore left and right handed. They also save @ 4 lbs. of unsprung/rotating weight per wheel over the 13.15” Baer GT+ rotors. The difference in leverage arm from the larger radius of the Baer rotor would be 1/6 of an inch (that is measured from the center of the brake pad to the center of the axle.).

Bob Bishop

I'm not sure which Baer brake kit Trey is referring to and for what year f-body.

I have the Baer racing kit for my 96 SS which is the GT and is identical to the ZR1 brake system with the two piston calipers and 13" rotors. These are vented rotors and so are the Z06 rotors.

This was a really great kit before. And I just took my car to Thunderhill for road race last week and it works great. However these kits including the ZR1 kits are nothing now compare to the new C5 or Z06 brake system. The new Z06 brake calipers are much bigger and uses a much bigger brake pads. This is very important in how it stops. All of the people that has the ZR1 brake setup in the corvetteforum.com are switching over to the newer Z06 brake setup.

I have not use the Wilwood, but heard that they are one of the best but cost a lot more.

If I have to do this all over, I would probably do the Z06 kit and install in the venting tubes to cool the rotors.

The Z06 rotors from GMdirects or Jason are quite cheap and very good. There is no reason you would buy the baer unless you want it to be cross drilled, slotted, or zinc wash to prevent rust. GM actually sell cross drilled slotted rotors. For my session to Thill, I actually took out my cross drilled slotted zinc washed cryotreated at 300below rotors and put in some generic blank rotors.

Originally posted by Camaro_SS/R
I'm not sure which Baer brake kit Trey is referring to and for what year f-body.

I have the Baer racing kit for my 96 SS which is the GT and is identical to the ZR1 brake system with the two piston calipers and 13" rotors. These are vented rotors and so are the Z06 rotors.

This was a really great kit before. And I just took my car to Thunderhill for road race last week and it works great. However these kits including the ZR1 kits are nothing now compare to the new C5 or Z06 brake system. The new Z06 brake calipers are much bigger and uses a much bigger brake pads. This is very important in how it stops. All of the people that has the ZR1 brake setup in the corvetteforum.com are switching over to the newer Z06 brake setup.

I have not use the Wilwood, but heard that they are one of the best but cost a lot more.

If I have to do this all over, I would probably do the Z06 kit and install in the venting tubes to cool the rotors.

The Z06 rotors from GMdirects or Jason are quite cheap and very good. There is no reason you would buy the baer unless you want it to be cross drilled, slotted, or zinc wash to prevent rust. GM actually sell cross drilled slotted rotors. For my session to Thill, I actually took out my cross drilled slotted zinc washed cryotreated at 300below rotors and put in some generic blank rotors.

Why would anyone want cross drilled:p

I guess the C5 upgrade is the best brake before you hit that point of deminishing returns $:brakingpower wise...

Wilwood don't cost to much over the Baer brakes. Compared to Baers four piston and wilwoods 6 pistons. I'll go for Wilwood for a little more. I'm not say Baer isn't good, there great but you would have to spend alot more for Baer's 6 piston when you can get the same Wilwoods 6 piston performance for cheaper.

Hold up, is Baers a two piston or four piston?

... I guess anything is better than the stock LT1 front brakes. It just depends on how much you want to spend for the kit and replacement parts down the road.

Originally posted by bruecksteve
Trey! I thought you were THE brake expert!!! :bow: I'm disappointed in you! ;) You shattered my image!!!!!

I am, it doesn't mean I know the specs of every brake in the world! :p

What exactly does this have to do with brakes? :)

Sorry, I missed Trey being a tool again.

I didn't mean to single you out with your post, I hit quote intead of reply. I fixed it.

Trey wanted his name changed again because he felt that he might get ethnical flack over it. We do not normally go through the process of changing name, but this is an exeption.

So regardless, stop being dorkfaces! Both of you!

:):)

Trey, it's ok. :)

I am going back to edit my posts and delete the irrelicant ones, and this one after you see it...

I didn't think you would take it so seriously (see sig). Most everything I say is in jest, especailly if I use the ":p."



:p

I thought I heard somewhere that the Wilwoods are thinner rotors and doesnt have as much swept area as the C5 rotors?

Got it! Mine are gone too. :p

kgkern01 - that's correct

Wilwood - 330x32 (12.9 x 1.25) swept area - 37.7 sq cm

C5/Z06 - 332x32 (12.9 x 1.25) swept area - 72.0 sq cm

I posted a link back on page one of this thread to a comparison chart.

Actually, the 72 sq cm is the effective brake pad lining area of one front pad. The “swept area” is 1,696 sq cm, or @ 263 sq in per front rotor. Nice large pads, and a generous amount of swept area.

Bob Bishop

I am very happy with my C5 brake conversion. I think it is a very necessary upgrade (Brakes that is) when attending driving schools.

http://community.webshots.com/user/raiderz28

Thanks Raider, I am glad you are pleased with the conversion. Some of your install pics are very good. Would you mind if I included a link to that page in my installation instructions, or if you don't like that idea, may I email 2 of the pics to anyone having a question about where to cut the ears?

Thanks,
Bob Bishop

what exactly is involved in doing this?

... if you're asking what's involved in upgrading an LT1 F-body with Z06 brakes, is easy:

jack up car, use jackstands, remove front wheels
remove old calipers and rotors
cut un-necessary mounting areas off of spindle (steering knuckle)
un-bolt wheel bearing assembly and mount adapter bracket
install rotor, pad abutement bracket and caliper
bleed system, install front wheels, remove jackstands and road test
be impressed with the new found (repeated) stopping power and the way it fills your wheel.


... that's it in the 'Readers Digest' version of what's involved. It's about a 3.5 to 4 hr job.

I have used the C5 ( bob bishop design bracket) for 2 years at Watkins Gken, and can tell you first hand that I can brake with most regardless of $$$. Now that is almost 30 track days in 2 years and 5 sets of ZO6 stock pads
:eek:

Have a friend that has the $2200.00 Baer set up and he said he would like my old(steel) brackets, can't imagine why???

Gary

... best 'bang' for the buck.

Bob,

No problem attaching as a link. Glad you liked the pics.

Brad

If you are going to track your F Body a couple of events a year, the Z06 swap will be fine. Running hard at the track, I mean run the brakes hard, I wouldn't recommend the Z06 calipers. Having a Z06, they are the weakest link on the car (maybe the 01 clutch). I have DRM aftermarket brake ducts installed so cooling is always a concern.

The issue is that the calipers get too hot and seize up with the piston extended. Has happened to me several times during an event-causes the rear to come around. In my trailer I carry 4 calipers and rotors at all times. I rebuild them after every couple of events. The more aggressive the pads, the quicker they break. As soon as funds allow, they are hitting EBAY.
I will look at the Baer 4/6 piston 13.5 rotor, Stoptech, or Movit. All have a much thicker rotor and rugged caliper and are designed for repeated abuse. Take a look;

http://home.mchsi.com/~debbie3004/caliper_piston.jpg

http://home.mchsi.com/~debbie3004/power_slot.jpg

http://home.mchsi.com/~debbie3004/rear_rotor.jpg
More reading about Z06 brakes; http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41901&highlight=movit

Originally posted by IROCrdracer
I will look at the Baer 4/6 piston 13.5 rotor, Stoptech, or Movit. All have a much thicker rotor and rugged caliper and are designed for repeated abuse.

The front rotor on a C5 is 1.25" thick. The thickest rotor that Baer offers is 1.25" thick. Even their $4,700 six piston C5 upgrade system uses 1.25" thick rotors

The thickest rotor that Stoptech offers for the Fbody is 1.25" thick.

Movit offers a rotor that is 2 mm thicker than the C5 in their $2,600 system. Go for it. I don't believe that a 2 mm thicker rotor is the main advantage of the Movit system. But why would you stop at a $2,600 system? For $20,000 you can get a full carbon rotor/carbon pad setup that will far out-perform the Movit system. Ask the Chevy C5R team.

Thousands of people track their C5's (and other cars with C5 brakes) without problem. Any driver who has tracked a C5, with good pads, will tell you that it is by far the best braking system that has ever come on any Corvette they have driven.

Bob Bishop

Originally posted by lateapex
The front rotor on a C5 is 1.25" thick. The thickest rotor that Baer offers is 1.25" thick. Even their $4,700 six piston C5 upgrade system uses 1.25" thick rotors

The thickest rotor that Stoptech offers for the Fbody is 1.25" thick.

Movit offers a rotor that is 2 mm thicker than the C5 in their $2,600 system. Go for it. I don't believe that a 2 mm thicker rotor is the main advantage of the Movit system. But why would you stop at a $2,600 system? For $20,000 you can get a full carbon rotor/carbon pad setup that will far out-perform the Movit system. Ask the Chevy C5R team.

Thousands of people track their C5's (and other cars with C5 brakes) without problem. Any driver who has tracked a C5, with good pads, will tell you that it is by far the best braking system that has ever come on any Corvette they have driven.

Bob Bishop



After reading your other posts (or on your behalf)http://mtfba.org/nashvillespeed/Brake%20Brackets/brakekit.htm I understand your response, and affection for the C5 calipers. Most of your potential customers will never reach the limits of the C5 caliper, so further debate is not worthwhile. Since you are a racer, you know the limits of your own set up-I don't.

Actually the Baer & Stoptech kit for LS1 F bodies is 1.26inches (32 MM) for rotor thickness. So I stand corrected. Thank you.

The Movit is available with 32 or 34 mm.
http://www.movit.de

But I was also referring to my Z06, not my/your camaro. I run the Baer Track system (PBR) on my 3rd gen. No complaints.

It may be the best ever on a Corvette, and I am sure that there are thousands of people running Vettes on the track without problems with the "stock" calipers and aftermarket pads--but that is not me. But most Vette guys on the track are too worried about wrecking to explore the limits of the car.

But there is a different group of Vette owners that want more, including many of the guys I run with. More meaing running on the ragged edge for eight 30 minute sessions at TWS, Road America, Mid Ohio, Brainerd, MAM, BH Farms, Gingerman, etc. without worrying about brake fade and hitting the same mark all day. I do about 30 track days a year in addition to the track I rent for endless lapping (MAM). Most serious guys run Alcon, AP racing, or Wilwood 6 piston fronts. Some use the front caliper for the rear. Must be a reason.

I am sure that my opinion will not have any effect on sales of your brackets, and I'll go back to the forced induction section.

Originally posted by IROCrdracer

90 IROC,394 ci,vortech... w/cog belt, Stealth Ram intake, ASM 1300 CFM monoblade TB (:eek: ), Accel DFI, Aeromotive 11104 pump, fuel cell, MSD 72lb. injectors (:eek: ), Accel injector cntrl,solid roller-296/306, 658/671 lift 114 ls, Tremec TKO, 9" Ford, NOS 150 HP shot (:eek: ), Spohn adj ctrl arms-sway bars-race tqe arm-,Ground Control coil overs & camber plates,custom tower brace, 6 pt. roll bar,Kirkey rr seat
649 RWHP@6600 RPM
580 LB. FT @4400 :D :D

Nice pics. I see you have plates on it. Streetable too!!

SD