Is ram-air really functional?

Is the camaro's ss ram-air hood really functional on an LS1?

The LT1's airbox sits far back, directly under the hood.
While the LS1's airbox sits near the nose of the car.

Akshay
www.geocities.com/akshay95624/index.html

no

yes, it functions as a cold air intake.

supposedly...

but not really...

Originally posted by ChrisLS1Bird
supposedly...

but not really...

i can't prove anything, you can't prove anything so this is going nowhere.

It does draw in more air though.

Well, I do know that there isn't a lick of difference in acceleration performance between an SS and a Z28. If it is functional, it ain't doing much.

That's all I know.

Originally posted by codyman16
i can't prove anything, you can't prove anything so this is going nowhere.

Sure you can, I can, anyone can.
Go to the track and make 4 passes note the mph and average.
Then pull out your trusty battery powered Dremel and do the free ram air mod.
Go on out and make 4 more passes and do the math.
Then you'll see a 1 mph gain from the free ram air mod that proves that the hood isn't worth much.
Or here's another way.
Duct tape the opening to your scoop closed. Make the runs do the math. Pull the tape off. Make the runs and do the math. Then note that there is no difference in the mph. This has all been done before. It's been proven. But most won't believe it so go back out there and do the tests yourself.
And before you ask. Yes I have an SS. And yes I've done the tests.

So, Al, you noticed a solid 1 mph gain from the FRA mod? That's interesting, and surprising to me.

Originally posted by AL SS590 M6
Sure you can, I can, anyone can.
Go to the track and make 4 passes note the mph and average.
Then pull out your trusty battery powered Dremel and do the free ram air mod.
Go on out and make 4 more passes and do the math.
Then you'll see a 1 mph gain from the free ram air mod that proves that the hood isn't worth much.
Or here's another way.
Duct tape the opening to your scoop closed. Make the runs do the math. Pull the tape off. Make the runs and do the math. Then note that there is no difference in the mph. This has all been done before. It's been proven. But most won't believe it so go back out there and do the tests yourself.
And before you ask. Yes I have an SS. And yes I've done the tests.

like i said someone saying over the internet that they have tried these and it did nothing on the track dosn't prove anything to most people because it isn't proof. When i go to the track i will make passes with the scoop taped, like i said ive heard of it going either way. btw. PLease do a search this topic has been discussed many times

It is true that the scoop does not perform much of a function... but it does allow a little extra air into the filter. Maybe more-so at speed, as the air is not really being pushed into the intake when launching from a stop. Still... the main function of the scoop is to look good, and it does the job very well. I'm sure it's been said before, that the SS is mainly an appearance package, with the exception of maybe some better shocks. It's just my opinion, but I don't think the cost is worth the minimal performance increase over the stock Z... spend 4k on aftermarket parts for a Z and you'll easily roast the SS.

I've read a couple magazine articles discussing "ram air", and they've both stated that the true effects of ram air are not noticed until higher speeds are reached, and even then, the actual "boost" is maybe only a couple pounds, tops. At lower speeds, there is hardly a measureable gain.

Originally posted by Capn Pete
...and they've both stated that the true effects of ram air are not noticed until higher speeds are reached, and even then, the actual "boost" is maybe only a couple pounds, tops.

What he said!! But they sure look cool :D

I thought the back of the SS hood was blocked off?? If it is, it's obviously non-functional

So basically, the Camaro LT1 (SS) has a functional ram-air system, whereas the LS1 (SS) doesn't? :(

Very interesting.

I guess its better getting a cowl hood (gets rid of all that heat), since the LS1 ss hood will cause uneccessary lift.

Wanna replace my car, so just doing my homework.

Thanks.

Akshay
www.geocities.com/akshay95624/index.html

LS1 ss hood will cause uneccessary lift.

Not neccessarily. The scoop is far enough back that it is out of the main airflow. Yet another reason for no performance benefit due to the hood.

I thought the back of the SS hood was blocked off?? If it is, it's obviously non-functional

It is open in front and routes the air to the opening of the air box. It is functional in that aspect, but not as a cowl induction. It just provides asthetic benefits more than it does performance, unless the Z has a heavy steel hood compared to the light SS hood. I can't remember if the Z's hood is steel or fiberglass.....getting older!!!!

Ya, you can run the same in a Z, but the SS will always have a higher resale value (all things equal). Besides better shocks there are other things that make up for the cost difference. Personally, I got my SS used for a low price and low miles so I can't complain.

Originally posted by 94B&RZ-28
I thought the back of the SS hood was blocked off No its not blocked off but its not sealed to the air intake, SLP claims this is so that rain water doesn't get into the air intake:rolleyes:. It does supply more air though. The V6 mustangs are blocked off right at the grill and from what my Mustang friend was saying, the GT lets air in through the grill but is blocked off under the hood.

It sure dosent look like it helps the SS alot, seeing where the scoop is and the intake.. The WS6 is obviously a little better.

However, my ultraZ hood tops them both, you can reach into the scoop and touch the filter...... Even then, i didnt notice any gain and dont think it helped me at the track. But at least i know its getting cooler air i guess.... RamAir is just a sales pitch. Looks good though.

Originally posted by ChrisLS1Bird
Well, I do know that there isn't a lick of difference in acceleration performance between an SS and a Z28. If it is functional, it ain't doing much.

That's all I know.

Do you have an ss or z28?

If you have an ss its just cuz you cant drive.
If you have a z28, its just cuz whoever you raced couldnt drive.
i notice a difference. its not huge but its a noticeable enough.

Originally posted by 99blackSS
No its not blocked off but its not sealed to the air intake, SLP claims this is so that rain water doesn't get into the air intake:rolleyes:. It does supply more air though. The V6 mustangs are blocked off right at the grill and from what my Mustang friend was saying, the GT lets air in through the grill but is blocked off under the hood.

the gt is completely blocked off, except for the mach1.
The gt has a solid plastic grill in the scoop

Originally posted by krillanaross
Do you have an ss or z28?

If you have an ss its just cuz you cant drive.
If you have a z28, its just cuz whoever you raced couldnt drive.
i notice a difference. its not huge but its a noticeable enough.

Hah, I'd watch who you're telling that they can't drive, considering you're running a 13.6 at the same MPH that many people have hit bottom 13's with.

The difference is marginal at best, it's not going to give a few tenths or MPH in the 1/4; it's equivalent to doing a free mod, maybe picking up a couple ponies.

Originally posted by krillanaross
Do you have an ss or z28?

If you have an ss its just cuz you cant drive.
If you have a z28, its just cuz whoever you raced couldnt drive.
i notice a difference. its not huge but its a noticeable enough.

Ramair is 50hp aint it? :lol:

trust me, on an SS especially its impossible to notice a difference, if you did its all i your head. My car is as ramair as it gets, and i did notice anything.

as far as static pressure in any kind of ductwork any time air turns a coner (90 degrees) it adds 25 feet of lenght. so by thr time the air gets to the throttle body its like its travled around the car twice!so any static pressure is virtually gone. as far as cooler more dence outer air , their may be some advantage there. ad far as reaching inside your scoop and touching the filter what happens when it rains, free water injection?

Originally posted by twozs
far as reaching inside your scoop and touching the filter what happens when it rains, free water injection?


the water obviously gets stopped by the filter.

So, what if the LT1 SS airbox is used in an LS1 SS? Think it'll fit?

If the LS1 SS hood isnt' functional, where does the added power come from? :confused: ...

....the SS emblems maybe... :D


Akshay

Originally posted by Akshay
So, what if the LT1 SS airbox is used in an LS1 SS? Think it'll fit?If the LS1 SS hood isnt' functional, where does the added power come from? :confused: ...
....the SS emblems maybe... :D
Akshay Let me guess you own a Z? When will Z28 owners finally admit there is a higher model?

I switched my z28 emblems to SS's and I felt at least a 15 hp gain.. I swear! ;) :cool:

Seriously though I think the scoop is kewl looking.. SS's are great..

Originally posted by 99blackSS
Let me guess you own a Z? When will Z28 owners finally admit there is a higher model?
yeah, there is a higher model.. it wears Z06 emblems..
ehhe

SS "RAM AIR" hood has never worked on the 4th gen cars.. Notice how there is little talk of "Ram air" on the marketing? If it even performed a tad bit better, it would of been hyped by the marketing crew.. Just look at the T/A.

On LT1's my LT1 Z28 could match or beat similar year model SS with similar mods.

My LS1 for sure matches and or beats bone stock SS of the same year. At the track and on the dyno. Its all good though... If we didnt like our cars this much, we wouldnt be here talking about them!

Originally posted by Akshay
So, what if the LT1 SS airbox is used in an LS1 SS? Think it'll fit?

If the LS1 SS hood isnt' functional, where does the added power come from? :confused: ...

....the SS emblems maybe... :D


Akshay

It seems Chevy underrated both cars HP numbers. However, if they were to rate them correctly there really wouldn't be a major difference in the numbers since no real HP adders are on an SS over the Z. I think Chevy just stated the SS HP number higher so that SS owners feel like we got more for our dollar. What you do get over a Z is some supsension upgrades, larger wheels, better resale value, and one sweet lookin ride.:bow: If you're shopping you can find SS's at a really good deal but if you stumble onto a Z go for it...performance wise the cars are really about an even match.

This is really silly. The new kids on the block actually think there is a real difference here. They're too stubborn to listen to people who have been in this game longer than they've even known about it.

Originally posted by krillanaross
Do you have an ss or z28?

If you have an ss its just cuz you cant drive.
If you have a z28, its just cuz whoever you raced couldnt drive.
i notice a difference. its not huge but its a noticeable enough. Of course I had to respond to this. Did you notice my ET and trap speed? Maybe you can't drive. My Formula ran 13.3@108 mph, stock, and showed many SS and WS6 cars its taillights.

You should actually lay down an impressive number at the dragstrip before you talk about a noticeable difference. The only noticeable difference I see is that your car is slower...with mods.

It's true that the SS has a little higher re-sale value than the Z, but both are still pretty good... considering they no longer manufacture the cars and the history of the SS and the Z, both types will have great value as they get older. Some day they will be the classics, and the cars in good condition will be worth a lot. The key is just to keep them in good condition, looking great!

Originally posted by 30thAnniversaryZ28
It seems Chevy underrated both cars HP numbers. However, if they were to rate them correctly there really wouldn't be a major difference in the numbers since no real HP adders are on an SS over the Z. I think Chevy just stated the SS HP number higher so that SS owners feel like we got more for our dollar. What you do get over a Z is some supsension upgrades, larger wheels, better resale value, and one sweet lookin ride.:bow: If you're shopping you can find SS's at a really good deal but if you stumble onto a Z go for it...performance wise the cars are really about an even match.

Ahh..now I understand! So the stock Z28 pushes out like 315hp, but is rated at 305hp. Whereas, the SS pushes out 320hp, and is rated at 320hp. Very interesting. Now that's some serious marketing skills!

Yeah, the SS does look EXTREMELY sweet!!!

Let me just :bow: to all the Z28 and SS owners.

Akshay
www.geocities.com/akshay95624/index.html

Originally posted by AL SS590 M6
Sure you can, I can, anyone can.
Go to the track and make 4 passes note the mph and average.
Then pull out your trusty battery powered Dremel and do the free ram air mod.
Go on out and make 4 more passes and do the math.
Then you'll see a 1 mph gain from the free ram air mod that proves that the hood isn't worth much.
Or here's another way.
Duct tape the opening to your scoop closed. Make the runs do the math. Pull the tape off. Make the runs and do the math. Then note that there is no difference in the mph. This has all been done before. It's been proven. But most won't believe it so go back out there and do the tests yourself.
And before you ask. Yes I have an SS. And yes I've done the tests.


That's a good attempt at doing an objective test, but it's not very meaningful. You can't just say: take 5 measurements, average them, and compare them to five other averaged measurements. Think about it. What was the standard deviation? Was it greater than 1 mph? I bet it was. Statistically, you didn't do enough runs to cancel out random error.

There are lots of other problems here too. If it not the exact same car, the test is pretty worthless. Yes, it will show that the ram air doesn't add 100hp, but it's not going to prove that it does nothing.

It seems like there's no objectivity here. People are talking about blocking off their intakes and noticing no difference. WTF!? Are the going to stick a cork in their tailpipe and pretend it doesn't do anything either?

OF COURSE RAM AIR MATTERS. I'm not saying it give you a large HP gain, but every little bit counts. As long as the ram air is less restrictive than the non-ram air intake, it's better.

I'm not saying SS >> Z28. I'm saying ram air > no ram air.

To me, it seems obvious.


Also,1/4 times would be a terrible way to evaluate whether a ram air works. Say you run the 13 in 1/4, what percentage of your time are you spending above 60MPH (assume constant acceleration for simplicity)?

1/4 mile = acceleration * (13 sec ) ^ 2
so acceleration = 1/ (4 * 169) = 1/ 676 miles/sec^2

now:

velocity / acceleration = time
(676) * (70 m/h) / (3600 sec /hour) = 11.27 seconds

So in your 13 sec car, the ram air has a whopping 1.73 seconds to work it's magic!

So what if the ram air really does work?

Let's say it give you 25% more horsepower once you hit 60. Normally you'd finish at 69.2 MPH. This time you finish at 71.5 As you can see, not that big of a difference.

I dont think the LS1s are over or under rated. They just arent made consistant. Becaus ive seen some dyno as low as 280 and some like 330.

They all run good though. I dynoed like 304 on motor, and run faster on the street and at the track then my buddies that dynoed around 330.

Originally posted by theloudroom
That's a good attempt at doing an objective test, but it's not very meaningful. You can't just say: take 5 measurements, average them, and compare them to five other averaged measurements. Think about it. What was the standard deviation? Was it greater than 1 mph? I bet it was. Statistically, you didn't do enough runs to cancel out random error.

There are lots of other problems here too. If it not the exact same car, the test is pretty worthless. Yes, it will show that the ram air doesn't add 100hp, but it's not going to prove that it does nothing.

It seems like there's no objectivity here. People are talking about blocking off their intakes and noticing no difference. WTF!? Are the going to stick a cork in their tailpipe and pretend it doesn't do anything either?

OF COURSE RAM AIR MATTERS. I'm not saying it give you a large HP gain, but every little bit counts. As long as the ram air is less restrictive than the non-ram air intake, it's better.

I'm not saying SS >> Z28. I'm saying ram air > no ram air.

To me, it seems obvious.


Also,1/4 times would be a terrible way to evaluate whether a ram air works. Say you run the 13 in 1/4, what percentage of your time are you spending above 60MPH (assume constant acceleration for simplicity)?

1/4 mile = acceleration * (13 sec ) ^ 2
so acceleration = 1/ (4 * 169) = 1/ 676 miles/sec^2

now:

velocity / acceleration = time
(676) * (70 m/h) / (3600 sec /hour) = 11.27 seconds

So in your 13 sec car, the ram air has a whopping 1.73 seconds to work it's magic!

So what if the ram air really does work?

Let's say it give you 25% more horsepower once you hit 60. Normally you'd finish at 69.2 MPH. This time you finish at 71.5 As you can see, not that big of a difference.

You need to pull your head out of your textbooks and get out in the real world. An LS1 car hits 60 in about 5 seconds giving it 8 more seconds to use the "ram air" effect in a 1/4 mile run.
So if it worked it would be a noticable improvement.

all this theory is cute, but the fact remains, even if the hood "rammed" air properly, it will lose all its ramming effect as soon as it gets to the airbox, since the airbox isnt sealed to the hood. It might direct some cooler air to the air inlet, but NOTHING will be ramming into it unless you seal it off.

99blackSS, Are you getting your information from the same source that informed you that Z28's get 15mm sway bars? If so I would stop listening to them.

Originally posted by AL SS590 M6
You need to pull your head out of your textbooks and get out in the real world. An LS1 car hits 60 in about 5 seconds giving it 8 more seconds to use the "ram air" effect in a 1/4 mile run.
So if it worked it would be a noticable improvement.

I second that!

From your header info:
theloudroom
New Member
Registered: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 1


Spend a while here and get a few more posts under your belt before you try to tell us that it takes our cars 12 seconds to hit 60MPH. :rolleyes: :confused: FYI - the hood is not sealed to the air box. It just blows (a small amount of) air onto the opening at the front of the air box. There is absolutley NO pressurization taking place. As for cooler air, that's even debatable because of the heat from the engine soaked up by the ductwork in the hood. It takes several minutes of constant high speed air flow to cool the air duct back off after the car sits. You can always raise the hood at the dragstrip. But even then it's not much of a difference if any. You're still getting cool enough air without having the scoop blow on the box. It probably blows hotter air after sitting with the hood down so performance would theoretically be even worse with an SS hood. I happen to agree that the best air intake mod other than the lid is the Free Ram Air mod. Air is pushed up by the deflector, diverted from the radiator and enters directly into the bottom of the air box. You just have to be sure to keep the filter clean as it gets dirty quicker, especially if you drive through high grass somewhere.

Originally posted by Freak
99blackSS, Are you getting your information from the same source that informed you that Z28's get 15mm sway bars? If so I would stop listening to them. I realized that the 15mm sway bar was wrong and pointed it out. Was that not enough, did you want a cookie? What did I say that was wrong about the SS hood? I said it does not cause a ram air effect, look at the first post. What am I wrong about?:blah:

My point is that no one's even trying to be objective here. I realize that assuming constant acceleration isn't true, but you're not paying atterntion to the real point behind my statement:

In a 1/4 mile run a fairly significant amount of time is spent below speeds where any type of ram effect could happen. If you wanted to scientificially test this, you should be starting from 70 MPH roll and timing yourself up to 100 or something (pick a speed range where you don't have to shift). The point being, you should eliminate all the variables you possibly can.

IMO the ram air would be less restrictive than the normal intake, therefore better. I doubt it makes a big improvement, therefore it would be very hard to measure. I agree that without things being sealed, you're not going to get much pressurization, but it's still technically possible. I think any ram air effects are minimal, but it probably does work well as a cold air intake.

Originally posted by theloudroom
...it probably does work well as a cold air intake.

I'll let you come feel my hood after I drive the car some time. Definately not what I would call cool. And the restriction is in the airbox, not delivery to the box. So whatever happens before then doesn't matter. Now... seal the hood to the box and put insulation under the hood and you might see some gains at higher speeds. But even then, the intake path would be so long that it would be a huge restriction at lower speeds.

My car's fast enough anyway. Who cares?

Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv
I'll let you come feel my hood after I drive the car some time. Definately not what I would call cool. And the restriction is in the airbox, not delivery to the box. So whatever happens before then doesn't matter. Now... seal the hood to the box and put insulation under the hood and you might see some gains at higher speeds. But even then, the intake path would be so long that it would be a huge restriction at lower speeds.

My car's fast enough anyway. Who cares?

You have some good points.
Would the pressure generated by a nicely sealed intake be enough to overcome the extra length?

Or the better question would be:
At what speed does this happen?

Pressure is going to increase with speed, but the length of the tubing, and the temperature of that tubing aren't.

As for why I care, I'm just curious. I have a deposit down on a '99 formula w/ ram air. I'm sure it will be plenty fast for me, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try and tweak it.

Another reason for my interest is that all this sounds like an interesting fluid dynamics problem. It's not an area I have expertise in, but why should that stop me :)

Bare in mind here that the pontiac ram air is considered a better design then the SS. I don't have an SS so I can only go by what I read from others. However I have seen lots of SS owners laugh about that design because of where they located the air duct on the hood. Apparently the air needs to travel into the hood and then be directed down, travel backwards and then forward again into the airbox :confused:

The ws6 hood is a much better design as the nostrils flow straight into the airbox with only one major flaw. The hood does not seal up so it's not very presurized unless you buy the bg ram air kit for it that is supposed to seal that 1-2" gap.

I agree with those that say it's not a big difference anyway. Ram air is nice and it does help at higher speeds (I love my SSRA) but we are talking about approximately 10 HP. There won't be a huge SToP feeling from any 10 HP mod.

It's worth having but not worth arguing over.

Peace

Originally posted by darrens99formul
Bare in mind here that the pontiac ram air is considered a better design then the SS. I don't have an SS so I can only go by what I read from others. However I have seen lots of SS owners laugh about that design because of where they located the air duct on the hood. Apparently the air needs to travel into the hood and then be directed down, travel backwards and then forward again into the airbox :confused:

The ws6 hood is a much better design as the nostrils flow straight into the airbox with only one major flaw. The hood does not seal up so it's not very presurized unless you buy the bg ram air kit for it that is supposed to seal that 1-2" gap.

I agree with those that say it's not a big difference anyway. Ram air is nice and it does help at higher speeds (I love my SSRA) but we are talking about approximately 10 HP. There won't be a huge SToP feeling from any 10 HP mod.

It's worth having but not worth arguing over.

Peace

Sounds sensible to me.

See here. (http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_articles/ss_hood_iat/ss_hood_iat_jackm_8.102000.htm)

Does it really work ?

Maybe.

Does it look good ?

IMHO I think it does ! :D

Do I have Free Ram Air ? :p

Oh, Yeah !! :bow:


Would I swap my SS for a Z28 ?

Nope.

Do I think just becuase it is an SS it will outrun Z28's or non WS.6 T/A's ?

Nope.

It's all in what you want & can afford.

Later !

Britt

on the hyabusa some magazeen installed a boost guage in the air box of the bike.did it produce more boost?yes.but it only did it at 120.and at that speed you cant feel 10 hp at that speed any way.and the ram air on that bike was desightned in a wind tunnel and on a flow thingie(cant remember the name).and they did thousands of dollars in research on that ram air.and the needle only wiggled at 80 thru 120 and it showed a little less than 1 psi of boost at 180.
does this have any thing to do with the ss or ws6 hood?no it doesnt but i thaught this was useful info on ram air.
is 10 or 20 hp worth 200/300 or 500 dollars yes it is but it will only help if you run 150 in the 1/4.i think its worth the money because it looks good and adds a little hp but if it didnt ad to the look i wouldnt waist my time.