paper filter or k & n

what is better i have heard a few diffrent things

your gonna hear the exact same things in this thread.

some people swear by them, others swear at them, and some, like you, are undecided.

EDIT: If you do go with a K&N style, go with the Holley, that way you wont have to deal with the gasket. Which seems to have a tendency to get moved out of place, leaving small gaps for unfiltered air to get through

I'm pretty sure Psychocabbage (one of the board members) dyno'd his car with a K&N and a paper filter, and I think he got 3 or 4 horsepower more with the PAPER filter!;)

IMO, they're HIGHLY over-rated by K&N and all the speed shops who just want to sell an $80 filter:irk:. But of course, I had to buy one:rolleyes:.................and only after I bought it did I decide it was the biggest waste of money ever:(. IMO, a paper filter is probably just fine, and so it costs a few bucks every now and then to replace..................I bet you would hardly spend the money on several paper filters as you would for one K&N:think:.

I use Fram paper filter.the K N let stuff by and collected on the meter screen.

Holley > K&N

:)

Paper Filters flow more air, but dont last as long and once they're dirty you cant use them anymore. Holley and K&N Flow very well and are reusable. So I would think once you're Paper Filter is too Dirty to use, just get a Holley.

The K&N is in the corner of my garage somewhere. It fit like ass, showed no dyno gain and let sand past it even when it was sealed properly. I use Frams now and just toss 'em when they get a little dirty.

i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.

all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.

Originally posted by camaro322hp
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.

all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
ditto. Mine works great. No gasket problems at all

Originally posted by camaro322hp
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.

all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.

I did the tests.. on a dyno.. withing minutes of eachother.. but maybe my car sucks air differently than yours..:rolleyes:

but my tests are all in my sig. Heck, I used to think that no filter was better.. I know better now..
as for filtration, cotton gauze is better for FILTRATION hence why its more RESTRICTIVE.

I will be using only AC Delco. I have gotten 23K miles out of mine so far.

Originally posted by psychocabbage
I did the tests.. on a dyno.. withing minutes of eachother.. but maybe my car sucks air differently than yours..:rolleyes:

but my tests are all in my sig. Heck, I used to think that no filter was better.. I know better now..
as for filtration, cotton gauze is better for FILTRATION hence why its more RESTRICTIVE.

I will be using only AC Delco. I have gotten 23K miles out of mine so far.

your sig makes no mention of air filters. please elaborate. all i see is a change of lids...

anyone can SAY paper flows better, just as you did. maybe you didn't read my post. nobody has shown ANY EMPIRICAL DATA that shows paper flows better, because as i've already said, it doesn't exist. any data would prove otherwise. you can see the porosity difference between filters. as a papermaker myself, i know that paper is very restrictive to air flow. every 10 tons of paper produced at our plant gets tested for porosity (tests the ability of air to pass through the paper). PAPER IS VERY RESTRICTIVE TO AIR FLOW. (based on years of paper testing data).

anyone?

look under the reviews.. then read the ones on the filter changes...

dont mean to sound hostile.. just got back from being on the road for 24 hours.. hehe

anyways..

My tests on a dyno showed me HP wise, that I made more with paper.

http://207.44.158.24/~admin33/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=1203&page_id=9

flow rate tests will not really show what your car will do based on its different flow rates... as for the lids, I used them to magnify any possible differences.

In my stealth test, its important to note that the K&N used there was much larger and hence had more surface area.. so that debunked my theory on larger surface area being better as it clearly wasnt.

I should also state that before I tested this, I would always buy a K&N for whatever car I had or some sort of aftermarket kit.

Now I have the AC Delco and will stick with it. The car lately really seems to of awakened. If I can get it to the track here soon and get better times or MPH that before, I will dyno again as it does seem to of gained more power. (my thoughts are that its fully broken in now).

in the link, it seems like the highest HP was with the k&n????

Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7

what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?

anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad ass cars, no matter what kind of air filter...:D

Originally posted by camaro322hp
in the link, it seems like the highest HP was with the k&n????

Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7

what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?

anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad ass cars, no matter what kind of air filter...:D

kewl..
hehe
sounds good.. but just to explain why I threw out those numbers: mty a/f ratio went PERFECT for the run... not rich not lean and it was never reproduced. I couldnt back the number up while I could on every other run.

Where's the popcorn smilie when you need one... :think:

:D

TS

I don't know why people buy air filters thinking it is a performance part. I use K&N because they filter better than paper and after 4 or 5 paper filters they'll pay for themself. An oiled gauze will catch particles better than non oiled paper particles. Dirt is attracted to oil. If you don't oil, clean and seal the filter right then you'll have problems.

I used the same K&N on my 70 SS for over 10 years. Not a bad $40 investment. It kept the air clean and that car kept the engine bay filthy. It sat really low (3" of clearance) and the fan was always kicking up dirt. I never found any grit etc on the filtered side. My wife's GAGT w/ram air and 115000k+ miles has one. There is grit in the bottom of the airbox from the RA, but it gets no further. If it did, I'm sure it would be smoking by now. I'm not saying K&N is the best anymore, but it isn't bad either.

If you want something that flows well and don't care about filtration they do make stainless mesh filters. The ricers like them for the sound and flow, but they don't filter well at all. IIRC from a website that tested filters, the synthetic fibered filters filter best and do produce maybe 1 hp more.

Its funny how people will be all over a product when its new, but after a few years they're saying its crap. 10 years ago I never heard anyone complaining about K&N. Then you have people that blame something new for problems. Like some GA people blame Dexcool for intake gasket failure.

I had great luck with K&Ns on my 5.0s (conical type), but the flat-panels suck. I am not here to be biased or bash products, but I can tell you that the K&N showed zero increase in horsepower on the dyno. That, coupled with poor fitment and questionable filtration put me back to paper. I may try the Holley, but why blow another $50?

K&N is worth the $ IMO, simply b/c it is able to be cleaned. i have had no trouble out of mine, dont know what the big deal is

Originally posted by 96LT14u2Nv
K&N is worth the $ IMO, simply b/c it is able to be cleaned. i have had no trouble out of mine, dont know what the big deal is

basically we were discussing whether or not it was a power adder.

We are not disputing its ability to filter. It does so well. But my stance, based on my multiple dyno pulls on this, lead me to think that it hinders power production and as such, I will not be using one.

Sure it can be cleaned and thats all fine. But for me, personally, its a hassel. I would rather replace it and be done with it. 1 air filter a year isnt going to kill me when you figure I have spent hundreds on oil alone! 1 oil change costs me about $35-$40 using amsoil products. Just for consistancy and ease of purchase. I am a man of leisure. Would rather have it sent to my door than go out hunting for what I want.

Deffinately K&N or Holley Powershot over a paper filter.

umm i have a question. lets say hypothetically speaking the paper got you an extra 2-3 hp but it doesnt filter as well. Is 2 hp enough of a difference that youd be willing to give up that bit of filtration and but your engine at a while smaller but still slightly larger risk of damage. Id rather say no thanx to 2 hp and not have something ruin my engine.

Originally posted by doug791
umm i have a question. lets say hypothetically speaking the paper got you an extra 2-3 hp but it doesnt filter as well. Is 2 hp enough of a difference that youd be willing to give up that bit of filtration and but your engine at a while smaller but still slightly larger risk of damage. Id rather say no thanx to 2 hp and not have something ruin my engine.

granted.. but if the tolerance is enough to get past the engineers behind the car.. its good enough for me.. I dont see myself with the car 5 years down the road..

Who really cares if there's a slight difference in the filtration capablities of one filter vs another?!:rolleyes:.............

.............IMO, if the motor wears out over time (because of a poor filter problem or whatever) it's just a good excuse to build a new hi-po engine!!!!!!!!:D :bow:

That's my $.02 ;).