Fixing Window Motors Without Replacment!

After having replaced my window motors twice (using Shoeboxes instructions). I decided to see what was going bad with them. I checked the resistance of the wiring and switch by installing a voltmeter at the plug to the motor. I got a good 13.5 volts. I lubed the guides, rollers, etc for the window.....still it would 'hang up'.

So as some of you know the motors have a sort of thermal circuit breaker which is nothing more than thin strip of copper material which after being heated up (due to the motor encountering some resistance like in our 10 year old cars) it 'trips' until the little strip cools down then you can keep trying to raise your window..sometimes it takes forever to get them all the way up.

I decided to tear the motor apart. It's a very simple device. And the guts are held in by 3 tabs in the body. Bend the tabs out and with a screw driver gently pry up on both sides to get the 'cover' off. The cover retains a set of brushes and 2 small springs. Once you get the cover off you will see a long strip of copper colored material. This is the culprit. It attaches to a brass colored terminal. Below this strip is a longer strip of metal covered in a black insulating rubber type material...this insulates it from the copper strip.

Push up on the copper strip with a small screw driver it's very thin and will bend upwards easily. You will see the black insulated strip below it. Break off the copper strip where it meets the brass terminal it's only attached at that end. Now with the copper strip taken off scrape off some of the insulation with a sharp knife on the remaining metal strip.

What we are going to do is bend the brass terminal (where the copper was attached) against the metal strip that has had it's insulation (about 1/4 inch on the end) taken off. The brass terminal does not have to be completely flat against the metal strip. Now solder (with a soldering iron unless your good with a small soldering torch and some flux cored solder)the brass terminal and the metal strip together. Test your soldering job with a small screw driver (push up on it to make sure it doesn't come apart).

Then put the motor back together:

Straighten the tabs in the back of the brush holders (square box thingees). Pull the commutator from the motor (it comes right out, the magnets in the motor body hold them in). Install the commutator on the cap/brush holder assembly then while holding the commutator in place install the brushes (brushes go with the 'angled' sides away from the motor body),then the springs and bend the little tabs back to hold the springs and brushes in place. Now while holding everything together insert the entire thing back in the body (the magnets will try to pull the commutator off the brush holders so hold it tight). Once everything is in, tap the cap back on. Bend the tabs on the motor back in place to hold the cap. Go to your car plug the motor in and test (by installing the window button and going up then down). If it works then install the motor back in the car and enjoy.

The picture shows the components of the motor (for the exception of the 2 small brush springs). It does not show the copper strip that i removed...only the brass terminal soldered to the metal strip that was below the copper circuit breaker.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d932b3127cce8a890d30e2d50000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d932b3127cce8a890d6f63ba0000001610

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d932b3127cce8a890d3d63e80000001610

I have not had any problems at all with this 'fix'. Remember you are bypassing a circuit breaker so do this at your own risk. As long as you don't leave your finger on the 'up' button for extended periods you won't have a problem with the motor overheating.

holy crap..does that mean my passanger window is goin to roll up fast again!!!
you DA MAN! :bow:

also remember that the window wont stop if there is something blocking it(arm, hand.. etc) :)

Thanks Jordon.. That's correct so if you have kiddo's consider the safety aspects.

If i had a place and web page skills i'd make up a web page about it......Brent94z and shoebox ya listenin':p

I bypassed the ECB (electronic circuit breaker) on an old motor, but did not get to try it out because being an old motor, it had other problems. I had seen that idea of bypassing it years ago on the 'net.
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.

Are you getting any more speed out of it?

Originally posted by shoebox
I bypassed the ECB (electronic circuit breaker) on an old motor, but did not get to try it out because being an old motor, it had other problems. I had seen that idea of bypassing it years ago on the 'net.
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.

Are you getting any more speed out of it?

Seems hard to believe that it would go up any faster... But it atleast won't stop on the way up. If you ask me its just a temporary fix. Unless that copper circuit gets more sensitive with age and thats the problem... :confused:

Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).

Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)

I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.

Originally posted by eej
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).

Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)

Well in that case. It sounds good to me. I just hope it doesn't lead to other more major problems down the road (no pun intended) for you. :)

I don't know if the increase in speed has to do with lubing the rollers and rails but it is faster than what it was before the 'fix'.

I don't think that it's faster than a brand new original car.... i wouldn't know i bought the car used and it has always been slow but it is faster than it has ever been.

Originally posted by eej
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).

Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)

I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.

Look real close on the metal strip. I believe there is some printing on there that may tell the rating of it.

Dammit.....i gotta look for it! It's somewhere in the yard i chucked it when it tore it off!

Originally posted by eej

I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.

You should really write "edit: " followed by the new text. It just makes it easier to notice when something has been changed. I noticed shoebox quoted something that you had added later. It just took me a minute to catch up with the conversation. No biggie though... :)

Just thought I would TTT this, since it works awesome. I lubed the rails, adjusted the window and even bought a new motor. The only way I could get it to go up the last 1/4" was to adjust the window to the point it was barely touching the molding which made it leak all the time. Even the new motor was slow and didn't go up all the way. I tore the circut breaker strip out like mentioned and it works great now. I think with it being so hot here in Florida it get's hot before making it all the way up. It's faster too.

I just did this today, figured i would add my 0.02.

It works great. My drivers side window would only move about an inch before halting. I've had the doors apart before so I knew what to expect.

Follow the links, drilling through the door was EASY, it's not even metal it's some fibre composite. It's easy to widen the holes a bit too, if you're off. Find the rivets behind the wall to see where to drill. I used a 3/8" bit.

The rivets were a pain in the ass, a small bit did nothing, had to use a larger 1/4" bit. the motor dropped...no harm done.

The copper piece is easy to see when you take the motor apart, but I was a bit confused. YOu need to seperate the copper layer from the layer directly below it. I was about to lift both layers up, don't. They're sitting right on top of each other. Get the copper piece off by bending from the opposite end of the terminal.

Don't forget the top cap once you get it back on!!! I did..I'll have to go put that back on some day :(

When you put the motor back in, mark on your motor which holes you need to bolt up. Get one started and align the teeth. I got them all on then realized the teeth werent meshed :( Once you do that, tighten them up, I used 2 nuts on the backside to ensure they wouldnt loosen off.

Total time, around 3-1/2 hours including rain delay and finding an allen wrench.

Worked great. Nice and crisp movement now :) Thanks.

ps-the copper piece reads: "007-5 F|"

the "|" is actually a thick block. Dunno what that means. Farads? :confused:

I finally did this mod today, and sure enough it worked. Window goes up like new! wasn't all that hard, just pop open the motor, break off the one connecter, scrape the black plastic back, and soder that connection.

glad you brought this up. I was about to replace my passenger window. I completely forgot about this post. Might save me a few bucks :D

Has anyone experienced problem with this fix?

you could put an automatic fuse on the power line to the motor and check which ampere rating would work best, so that you know that it at leasts shuts off sometime..just a thought.
I'll try this on my driver side motor, I kept my replaced one from the pass side, it's now torn apart, and my driver side is now slowly going so I think I'll try this and see if it works...

Good idea on the fuse. I'm going to give it a try myself. What do I have to lose?

Well it's been over a year since the original fix......and still working. NO problems to speak off. :)

Well it's been over a year since the original fix......and still working. NO problems to speak off. :)
I did this to an old window motor i had lying around. When testing it on the battery it worked 100% ok. Still have not installed it in the car though.
When I took the motor apart i cleaned up the greasy crap inside and relubricated using white lithium grease.
Does anyone know if using white lithium grease is OK for these motors? Like I said.. my initial tests showed it worked ok...

IMO, the lithium grease should be ok.

Shoebox,

I think it would be really helpful if you added this to your site. :cool:
Surely you got some old motors laying around (I think we all do. :mad: )
that you could use for some pics and a how-to.

Shoebox,

I think it would be really helpful if you added this to your site. :cool:
Surely you got some old motors laying around (I think we all do. :mad: )
that you could use for some pics and a how-to.

:) Then people would say I stole their idea. :) I read about people doing this many years ago. All you really need to do is solder a piece of wire on top of the limiter. I don't see that it is necessary to remove anything. Electricity will take the path of least resistance and bypass the limiter.

:) Then people would say I stole their idea. :) I read about people doing this many years ago. All you really need to do is solder a piece of wire on top of the limiter. I don't see that it is necessary to remove anything. Electricity will take the path of least resistance and bypass the limiter.
Well after doing it myself I found that it was really quite easy taking the limiter strip out and for the avg joe who cant really solder much at all it makes it a whole lot easier to do.

Well it's been over a year since the original fix......and still working. NO problems to speak off. :)

Like info that was given on another thread about putting in relays for the window motors, how about giving some e.t.'s on rolling up and down? That will give some perspective on what the mod does for window speed.

I would give et's if i had a motor that was acting up.

However when i fixed it it would take me MINUTES to get the window to roll up. It would roll up 2 inches then i'd have to wait for a minute then 2 more inches then wait another minute.....and on and on. It's one thing to want your window to go faster. I just wanted mine to roll up!

Now it just takes seconds. If anyone want's to put it on their website it's fine with me if they want to use the pictures. I don't hold the patent on this fix LOL. Just a bit of common sense and a tiny bit of electrical know how. LOL. If we didn't share ideas then this forum wouldn't exist.

I was just thinking about this thread couple weeks ago, b/c my passenger side window is starting to get slower, not bad yet, but enough for me to notice. my driver side too is slowing down and its barely a year old. when they get slow enough I'll try this mod.

I would give et's if i had a motor that was acting up.

However when i fixed it it would take me MINUTES to get the window to roll up. It would roll up 2 inches then i'd have to wait for a minute then 2 more inches then wait another minute.....and on and on. It's one thing to want your window to go faster. I just wanted mine to roll up!

Now it just takes seconds. If anyone want's to put it on their website it's fine with me if they want to use the pictures. I don't hold the patent on this fix LOL. Just a bit of common sense and a tiny bit of electrical know how. LOL. If we didn't share ideas then this forum wouldn't exist.


I was looking for how long it takes now. :)

Lots of good info in here. In fact, I have this thread saved at home :) But, it probably is about time I move it to the general forum where all the other window threads are :D

Just seen this thread :bow: Someone should make this a sticky :alert:

Ok guy's I've read this and plan on doing it soon, possibly tomorrow if it doesn't rain. I only have one question. What size screws do you use to replace the rivets or would it be better to use rivets? Thanks

Man don't know the size of the screws.....how about 'small'. Mine had already been replaced so it already had screws.

Make sure you use some sort of locknut or lock washers. The replacement nuts had that built in star lock washer thingie.


SHOEBOX:

Roll up times after the mod AND 1 year later are as follows.

with car turned off: 9 seconds.

with car running: 7 seconds.

...
SHOEBOX:

Roll up times after the mod AND 1 year later are as follows.

with car turned off: 9 seconds.

with car running: 7 seconds.

Thanks. I was just curious as to what people are saying is slow. I think my windows are as fast or faster than that without any modification. ;)

has anyone ever tryed to replace the motor with a stronger onme. My dads 95 riviera had the option for the fast roll down, and it went faster than any window i've ever seen. Plus its a huge window like f-body's, not sure if it would fit, maybe its bigger.

Well, looks like I've got a project that might solve my problem. I had to open my passenger door to roll the window all the way up. Once it got within that tiny last bit it would just stop. Sweet.

Anyone have any good ideas to see if it ISNT also the switches? I'm guessing a volt meter across the motor while pushing the switch down would work, but I'd rather check the resistance of the switches...

My wife calls me the other day and tells me the back window on the Tahoe won't roll back up. After getting the kids out of school and gets back in the car, the window rolled up but very slowly. I ask this. Seeing that the Tahoe is a GM product also, should I not be able to do this to this window motor too with similar results? Currently not experiencing problems with my Camaro in this dept.

:bow: i have to make another testimonial for this , i didnt keep track of how long it took but after it was all said and done my window works like new and this thread saved me $50.00

I am going to try this soon to see if it works. Its atleast worth the try if im going to replace the motors anyway.

Brandon

What if your passenger is drunk and gets their head stuck in it?

I'm more concerned with vomit then a drunk who wants to go gallows-style with my window :)

is that little motor really that strong?

is that little motor really that strong?

I doubt it, but it could probably give you a good bruise

is that little motor really that strong?

Yes. Many times children have been choked to death in power car windows. Even when equiped with the proper safety stop, they are dangerous. What happens is a chaild will go to look out the open window and put a knee on the arm rest. Their knee presses the window switch and the window closes on their neck strangling them.

This is why most cars now have window switches that require you to lift up on them to put the window up. That way a child's knee cannot close the window. Pressing down on the switch can only put the window down.

Remember, the window motor does not need to create the force to smash or cut, just enough force to prevent someone from breathing. It is easier than you might think.

Is somebody here actually concerned that an adult might be killed by a power window?!?! I don't care how drunk they are, if they can't outsmart or overpower a piece of glass........well, we didn't need them polluting the gene pool anyway.

I just went to my 97 Z and verified my suspicion- When window motors overheat due to the "protection", they're dead. No up, no down. If you choke yourself, thus causing the motor to trip, then you can't roll it down either. So there is no way that copper strip is "choke protection", it could actually cause the window to trap you. I'd say this mod is actually a safety improvement. Now the risk of burning the car down with an electrical fire, that's different :eek:

I'd like to add that F bodies are not framed windows, and thus offer significantly less risk of choking because the door handle can also save you.

Just trying to minimize the effect of the safety police. The whole world is designed for the brain power of a freakin 4 year old. Modify those motors with a clear conscience. Later

Is somebody here actually concerned that an adult might be killed by a power window?!?! I don't care how drunk they are, if they can't outsmart or overpower a piece of glass........well, we didn't need them polluting the gene pool anyway.

I just went to my 97 Z and verified my suspicion- When window motors overheat due to the "protection", they're dead. No up, no down. If you choke yourself, thus causing the motor to trip, then you can't roll it down either. So there is no way that copper strip is "choke protection", it could actually cause the window to trap you. I'd say this mod is actually a safety improvement. Now the risk of burning the car down with an electrical fire, that's different :eek:

I'd like to add that F bodies are not framed windows, and thus offer significantly less risk of choking because the door handle can also save you.

Just trying to minimize the effect of the safety police. The whole world is designed for the brain power of a freakin 4 year old. Modify those motors with a clear conscience. Later

I'm not worried about adults. Like you point out, They should be smart enough to deal with it. I'm worried about kids, and if you dont think that is of concern you can call any parent of any child that has died in a power car window. I'm sure they will tell you it is no big deal. It's not a big deal until it is your 2-year old laying dead in a car. $50 is not a ton of money.

If someone has kids, this mod is not for them.

If someone has kids, they should be enough of a parent to keep their kids from sticking their head out of the window or playing on the door. Good parenting goes a lot further than a power window motor resistance detector.

If someone has kids, they should be enough of a parent to keep their kids from sticking their head out of the window or playing on the door. Good parenting goes a lot further than a power window motor resistance detector.

You obviously don't have kids. ;) It only takes one oversight at the wrong time. Believe me, it is possible to get distracted.

Is there a possibilty that the motor might heat up too much and maybe cause a fire? I was thinking about what if someone had their knee on the switch when the window was already all the way up and not realizing it. Would another fuse trip? I sure would hate to be driving down the road to have your door catch on fire!

The child safety police have totally missed my point. When your so-called "choke protection" activates, it DISABLES the window while the child is trapped and choking. Therefore there is no chance of getting the window down to stop the choking. The switch goes dead in both directions! Mine takes upward of a minute to reset! How is that choke protection? I'd rather have a smoking wire and the opportunity to get free.

Perhaps that strip is not choke protection, but wiring harness and switch protection.

you have a good point.
I'm doing this on my crappy driver's side motor tomorrow.

you have a good point.
I'm doing this on my crappy driver's side motor tomorrow.
Hello! Never thought I'd see someone from Greeneville on here. If you haven't already, check out HIGH PERFORMANCE TOYS (www.highperformancetoys.com)

Tom

Hello! Never thought I'd see someone from Greeneville on here. If you haven't already, check out HIGH PERFORMANCE TOYS (www.highperformancetoys.com)

Tom

sweet! will do.

The child safety police have totally missed my point. When your so-called "choke protection" activates, it DISABLES the window while the child is trapped and choking. Therefore there is no chance of getting the window down to stop the choking. The switch goes dead in both directions! Mine takes upward of a minute to reset! How is that choke protection? I'd rather have a smoking wire and the opportunity to get free.

Perhaps that strip is not choke protection, but wiring harness and switch protection.


You did your test on a broken motor. I went out and tested my brand new motors and they do stop when force is applied, and they will go down afterwards.

Check out this thread HERE (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364033) and read LOADING's comments on how his bypassed motor works.

These motors are very strong units. We had my friend push with all his force down on it, and while the motor sounded a little strained, he couldn't hold it back. There's such a strong mechanical advantage, that the weight of the window/tracks shouldn't really matter to terribly much.

These will definatly strangle a child if you remove the heat strip.

Another success story,.....pulled the heat strip out as directed, soldered the terminal up, put her all back together and "ta_da", it works great now. Saved me $50. Cool beans. Thanks to whoever posted this "fix" up. One note that I wasnt clear on was that the armature doesnt come out very easy as the magnets in the motor housing are pretty strong and it almost seems like something is holding it in the casing. However, theres nothing but the magnetic field holding that in. From the original post I thought it would basically fall apart. Other than that, GREAT FIX, 2 thumbs up on this cheap, relatively easy job.

I also did this fix on my stubborn drivers side door. Works great!!

OLD bump.. this should be stickied?? lol my passenger window started going slow (just sold the replacement i thought i didnt need)and my drivers (new) stops at the top when it hits the rubber (has been adjsuted has to go there so it doesnt leak..)

I vote to sticky this.(not that my vote counts) but I think it should

I hate stickies. :p

I did the bypass on one motor and while it did seem to breath a little more life into the motor, it's not really any faster. It's also more trouble than just replacing the motor, IMO.

When everyone is saying "Advance Motor" which part number/manufacturer are you speaking of?

I see these at my local Advance:

-----------------------------------
ACI Window Lift Motor
New; Front Left Or Right; Includes Gear
Warranty: Lifetime Replacement Warranty
-----------------------------------
Buy online,
pickup today!
Ships in 1 day
$54.94
-----------------------------------






Part No.
82145 Cardone Window Lift Motor: New Cardone Select
Window Lift Motor: New; Front; 2 Per Car
Warranty: Lifetime Limited Warranty

Part No.
42150 Cardone Window Lift Motor: Remanufactured
Window Lift Motor: Remanufactured; Front; 2 Per Car
Warranty: Lifetime Limited Warranty

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$42.99

$4.99 core

Part No.
WL42014 Siemens Window Lift Motor
Power Window Motor: New; Front; 2 Per Car
Warranty: Lifetime Limited Warranty

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WL82460 Standard Motor Products Power Window Motor
Power Window Motor: Left Front
Warranty: 1 Year Limited Warranty

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Power Window Motor: Right Front
Warranty: 1 Year Limited Warranty

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