We need a "how to tune walkthrough"

Does one exsist for all us that do cam/heads or whatever? Something with a walkthrough on what to do first, like run datamaster and look at blah,blah first because of blah, blah. Then do blah,blah because of blah, blah. Then log a run again, etc..

Jeff D.

I 2nd this :D

I've thought about starting on one and then having others add to it and correct it.
Finding the time and others to help might be rough.
If anyone is interested in helping me write one let me know.

Edit: I'll start on one this week. I'll try to have it done by this weekend. In no way, shape, or form is it exactly how everyone should tune their car...but it would be how I'd do it if I were doing my own car. Maybe I can get the forum admin to post it as a sticky at the top of the page and we can add to it/modify it as more opinions are given by others. :)

That would be great Dan. At least it would be a work in progress. I'm sure some of the major programmers wouldn't want to participate (money talks) but maybe they could at least add some corrections etc. I'm also VERY interested in the transmission side of the programming.

Dan,

Good idea. Would you have a website we can link to for this tutorial? You know others have built websites from this forum and no one uses them because they are not stickies. I'll throw in my 2 pennies worth of knowledge and we can throw around ideas/theories.

A nice one done was someone (wish I remember who) put all of their LT1 Edit and TunerCat tunes on a website for all to visit. Very good idea they had, but unless it is a sticky of some sort, it won't be used. Luckily I saved that as a favorite.

Ben

I'd be happy to use my website for hosting. It's my own server and it's not going anywhere. I can't tell you how many times lately I've clicked on a link and the site is gone!

This sounds like a great idea.

Great idea and Thanks to Dan for attempting such a job.

I am a dumbarse when it comes to this and can't even figure out where I should start. :eek:

Guys, I have started to piece something together.
What are we talking about here? Do you guys want something that is just a basic how to get started, or do you want something that gets into detail with tuning and datalogging? Trans stuff I don't know a whole lot about. Some of you will know more than I will about that.
Something basic, say for stockish bolt on cars, I could have done pretty quick.
If you want me to get into detail on how I've done a couple heads/cam cars before...I can. But that's going to take some time, plus I'm going to need the input of others before I'd even post my opinions on how you should tune your car.
Besides, who am I to tell you how to tune your car? Mines stock! :p

I would like to know details of how to tune the car in idle, part throttle, and WOT. I dont care how long its gunna take to tune, as long as its done right. But maybe a quick tune also for some who dont have as much free time as I do. If there are conflicts in experienced tuners ideas, post them both, state that there are different ideas, and if possible get that tuner to say why his idea is better, as to let each person chose what idea might be better, also to allow different methods to work on different cars.
Thanks guys this will really help out alot and is appreciated.

Dan,

I say start with the basics and make it a living document we can change as we get more info.

Post what you want from any of us that are willing to edit/add to the document.

Monk, I agree we could break it down into different sections and for sure we need multiple opinions as I see other tuning differently from me.

Ben

Maybe break it down into SPARK and FUEL, then further into WOT, Idle, and Part Throttle.

Include tuning ideas like adjusting MAF tables to fix BLMs.
And leave out ideas like using VE Master on a MAF car.

The basic theory of operation and definitions (and examples where it fits) of the terminology. We can even have a place to download .bin files etc. Screen shots of tables and datalogs with notations. I can help do images.

Here's an example that would help me.

I'm sitting here staring at my transmission tables, specifically the Performance Up/Down Shift Points. What I'd like to see is an explaination of exactly what I'm looking at. I understand that % TPS is the amount of throttle opening, I understand 1 -> 2 (and so on) and MPH but explain, using a real world example, what it means when I see 25% TPS and 2 -> 3 says 35MPH.... what happens?? The problem with the tables is you can't see the logic that takes place in the background, HOW the logic uses these cells to figure out what to do AND what it means in the real world, does it mean that (from the example above) if I'm running about 25% throttle and I'm in 2nd gear, my car will shift to 3rd at 35MPH? (IS that what it means?).

The downshifts I have a HARDER time understanding. Some simple yet graphic examples would go A LONG way in helping me. http://www.crystalridge.net/cars/images/tunercat.gif

And it could be the values read from this table are use along with values from another table, maybe a pressure modifier table (just made that up :rolleyes: ) which you would never know just by looking. It's those hidden interrelationships that you've got to know or figure out.

I enjoyed the post not long ago about WOT tuning. The quoted discussion got in to those complex formula's and how he could eliminate part of the formula (a variable) to get it tuned (sounds like it worked!). I want to go back and save that to read.

It's those hidden interrelationships that you've got to know or figure out.

Great point. I think it would be a major step to make it known what tables effect others and so work on these tables first. I mean, why work on a table if its effects will be changed by later working on other tables? I believe most of the important tables use values that are percentages of values from other tables. If this is so then comparing the same tables with someone else would give different results if one of their other tables were different. This would lead to confusion on why similar values would not work for everyone.

Jeff D.

http://www.carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/

More information in that link than anywhere else on the net.

THIS (http://para.noid.org/%7Elj/PCM%20Tutorial/PCMtutorial.htm) one too.

the next LINK (http://www.carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/Ignition/OptimizeSparkAdvance.html) is a page from the first link and im posting it to be sure everyone takes careful notice.

have fun:D

Yeah, that's the best place I have found for useful info. Sort of all over the place though and does not have a real starting point and procedure.

Jeff D.

This would be awsome... here some Ideas...


A trouble shooting for common problems

And definatly a describtion of what sensors do what....
like im sometimes confused what exactly the O2s are changing with the fuel trim and the BLMs

but also other sensors

And then a how to on stock cams

A good Theroryolgics(sp) talk or explaination would help ppl do it on there own


ANd lastly a data base of good baseline progrms

Originally posted by turbo_Z
http://www.carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/

More information in that link than anywhere else on the net.

THIS (http://para.noid.org/%7Elj/PCM%20Tutorial/PCMtutorial.htm) one too.

the next LINK (http://www.carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/Ignition/OptimizeSparkAdvance.html) is a page from the first link and im posting it to be sure everyone takes careful notice.

have fun:D

Yeah Christian does have some good ideas and links. Everything I have learned however has been through trial and error or by finding bits and pieces throughout the net (including this board). It would be nice to have it all in one place.

Dan K, you anywhere close to being able to show us something based upon your earlier post?

As for that optimized spark, that is an interesting theory that he does not go into enough detail about. What about PE mode? What about 100% TPS? Hell at 100, we want max MAP! What did I miss in that portion of the page?

Ben

Guys, I haven't gotten much of a chance to work on it.
Odds are I won't for a while. Sorry. :(
But I must say that all I was going to do was a how to tune your car, not really a synopsis of modern fuel injection systems.
No troubleshooting, no explaining sensors, nothing really like that.
There already was a site that people could upload and download bin files from....I think it disappeared.
I think what Mikey97Z asked for was all I was going to do.
Just a "how to tune" walkthrough. You know, start with constants and flags, set up the speedometer stuff, set up shift points on an A4, then move on to idle, then part throttle, and finally wot and pe mode. There...there's your walkthrough. :D
I just wish I had the time to work on it more and do a little more research myself.
Maybe someday I'll be able to suprise you all and post it, but right now it's not going to happen as I just don't have the time.

Originally posted by 95Blackhawk


As for that optimized spark, that is an interesting theory that he does not go into enough detail about. What about PE mode? What about 100% TPS? Hell at 100, we want max MAP! What did I miss in that portion of the page?

Ben

He was trying to explain how you can tune your car for optimal spark timing which means the spark timing that is most efficient. since too much timing hurts power as bad as too little, this is a way to get it just right. if i had a laptop i would try out his theory. bad thing is that its only for part throttle tuning because im sure WOT 100% tps must be done on a dyno thru tial and error like always since WOT like you say is max MAP and does not change.

Originally posted by turbo_Z
He was trying to explain how you can tune your car for optimal spark timing which means the spark timing that is most efficient. since too much timing hurts power as bad as too little, this is a way to get it just right. if i had a laptop i would try out his theory. bad thing is that its only for part throttle tuning because im sure WOT 100% tps must be done on a dyno thru tial and error like always since WOT like you say is max MAP and does not change.

I think you are right regarding his part throttle timing only. However, on my car I do have my MAP decrease as a function of RPM. The higher the RPM, the lower the MAP at WOT. Now of course I go from 99 at 2000 to 94 at 5800 RPM on average (using an average on a scatter graph) so its is not much. However, Christian's writings did make me wonder regarding this phenomenon.

I really wish there was a better way to tune our timing at WOT other than T & E. The only thing I can say is I am sure that the GM engineers did a good job on the stock timing map. However, with all our mods, that will no doubt change what should be optimum. As for me, I run 3 degrees less at WOT than stock. The only consolation regarding my non-optimized timing map is the fact that I probably would not gain much with a truly optimized one.

Ben

Originally posted by bruecksteve
I'd be happy to use my website for hosting. It's my own server and it's not going anywhere. I can't tell you how many times lately I've clicked on a link and the site is gone!

Well, since I do not want this to die, are you still up for using your server? Somehow we have to piece together our info on this from everyone who knows a little something about tuning.

Any thoughts on how to do that through a server and make it a document that can constantly change?

Ben

Ben,

You got an email. Let me know what ya think.


Daniel

Bumping this back up, I cannt believe w/ all the gurus out there nobody has done one yet.

Jeff D.

I can understand to a certain extent. It's how they make money and that would take people away from their services.

FYI, Daniel (Tails) has been talking with me and currently he has a forum just started on this subject on a new website he developed.

There main difference from any other forum you may see. He is intending to create an area where us tuners can put in our knowledge in a document that would keep expanding and improving as others add to it. This is really what I want to see. All of us that play around with our PCM's know a little bit of the big puzzle and together we could create a nice How To manual.

Since this is really his baby, I am going to let him determine when he wants to start advertising for it. I think soon.

Ben

Yeah I just shot PM's to DanK, bruecksteve, and PoorMan informing them of it. I'm shooting to get it online by next week. I've emailed JasonD the site but haven't heard anything back from him. So I'll keep it on a PM or email basis until he gives me permission to pimp the site here..:)


Edit: Also Ben YGM..:)

Tails

i would just like a site that will tell me what all the tables means.
becuase my help section of my tunercat software doesnt work. beats me as to why

Originally posted by 97Z-M6
i would just like a site that will tell me what all the tables means.
becuase my help section of my tunercat software doesnt work. beats me as to why

E-mail TC...he'll tell you why or what file you're missing.
I want to guess it's the formlib file? :confused:

Ok everyone the site is online now and ready for submissions. I haven't got permission from the mods to promote it here so email me or pm me for the address.


Tails

Originally posted by Tails
Ok everyone the site is online now and ready for submissions. I haven't got permission from the mods to promote it here so email me or pm me for the address.


Tails

email me the link at vbergero@prhc.net

Unless you are going to be charging for it, I can't see why you even bother with asking for permission...

Just post it! Again, unless you are going to start charging for its usage...

but i'd like to take a look as well...

jkelly95z@yahoo.com

I would like to see this as well. I've been reading this forum for some time now and its provided alot of valuable info and I agree we have been missing a collective element here.

danman69.1@netzero.net

Me tooo!! allzway@team.camaroz28.com

me too

Well there seems to be enough interest in this along with all the emails I've gotten so far. So if the mods here have an issue let me know.

Here's the site: Tuning (http://tuning.seth-sons.com)
Go ahead and submit your stuff. I'll review them and post them on the main page. As the main page gets full I'll move the info into it's appropriate area under them Tuning Tips Menu.

Any questions, comments, suggestions, etc... email them to
daniel@seth-sons.com

Tails

Originally posted by Tails
Well there seems to be enough interest in this along with all the emails I've gotten so far. So if the mods here have an issue let me know.

Here's the site: Tuning (http://tuning.seth-sons.com)
Go ahead and submit your stuff. I'll review them and post them on the main page. As the main page gets full I'll move the info into it's appropriate area under them Tuning Tips Menu.

Any questions, comments, suggestions, etc... email them to
daniel@seth-sons.com

Tails



this is what i get everytime i try to open the link to tunercat

Blank PHP Page

This page is for your html coding to be placed in your site without you having to use a module to call the html page.
Put your html coding here!
Testing!

what is it. and what do i need to do to fix it so that i can see your page

I believe what your seeing is correct... As in there are NO tips yet...

I see the same thing :)

jeff

Originally posted by 97Z-M6
this is what i get everytime i try to open the link to tunercat

Blank PHP Page

This page is for your html coding to be placed in your site without you having to use a module to call the html page.
Put your html coding here!
Testing!

what is it. and what do i need to do to fix it so that i can see your page

Yes Jeff is correct. Since nobody has posted anything of use yet there won't be anything there yet. I'll change when I get off work to avoid any further confusion.

Tails

Guys,
Some sort of a walkthrough will happen. I'm going to start with ECM constants, then go to idle tuning, then part throttle, and then wide open throttle. I'm sure some other stuff will get thrown in there along the way...but give me a little time and I'll get something going. :)

Yes guys all I'm posting is the basic stuff I've found so far. I'm still new at this and I just made this cause I got tired of having to try and find tips and such. So if you have some stuff you've done or tried cruise over and post it.


Tails

TTT

THis is an awesome idea. I'm brand new to tuning, and am trying to learn as much as possible. Keep up on this, it will be huge for us new tuning newbies.