Solid roller cam maintenance

Fred, if this isn't advanced tech, please feel free to move it. I didn't figure it would get an adequate response in LT1 tech.

Obviously I don't have my engine yet, but I do have a few questions about the solid roller valvetrain, especially considering that it's been pretty much sitting for over a year now, and I don't know if anyone's bothered to turn it over at any sort of regular interval to relieve the pressure on the valve springs, or whether that's even necessary.

I have Comp Cams Pacaloy springs. I'd have to look up the part number, but I believe that they're 943s, which specs at 240 pounds on the seat and 598 open. Those are close enough for my questions, at any rate.

1. With these type of pressures, if the engine has been sitting for an extended period of time, should I be concerned about the inequal compression of the various springs? Should the engine have been turned over periodically to relieve pressure on springs that have been partially or fully compressed during that time? I'm assuming the answer is yes, or is it only due to heat cycling that springs tend to lose their tension?

2. What if this hasn't taken place? I asked if there was any possibility that the springs needed to be replaced after being under tension for so long, presumably without any cycling of the valvetrain, and was told that the springs are still "in spec". Short of taking them off and checking them on a spring pressure testure, can anyone honestly say that they haven't been affected during this time, or am I just worrying too much?

3. The reason for concern is that the engine will soon (with any luck) be back in the dyno cell again prior to being shipped. Would a year (or so) sitting cause the springs to lose enough pressure that it would be dangerous to dyno without replacing them? I ask because I've got $1,500 worth of Ti valves (among other things) at risk...

Enough about the engine, now for some general questions...

4. I've heard the "horror" stories about having to check lash every 2k-5k miles. Is this really a concern with modern springs and shaft rockers? What's a reasonable interval? I don't want to be pulling my valve covers off every 5k miles if I don't have to, although I would assume that checking them more regularly at the beginning of their life cycle would be appropriate, and more infrequently if the lash hasn't changed. Anyone know how good the Crower shaft rockers are at retaining their settings?

5. Speaking of lifecycle, what's the reasonable expectancy for springs like this? 15k miles? 20k miles? That could easily be 3 or 4 years of driving in a low mileage car, so should they be replaced on a yearly or bi-yearly basis or another regular schedule rather than based on mileage? It's likely that they'll "sit" through the winters with periodic starting of the car to keep everything happy. I'm just curious what the prudent replacement interval should look like.

6. Besides a cylinder pressurizing fitting to hold the valves in place with compressed air, how do you remove springs with these pressures with the engine in the car and shaft rockers? Without a rocker stud to attach to, what do you do? I haven't come across any tool yet that will allow compressing springs with shaft rockers, let alone ones with these pressures. I've removed stock LT1 springs and they've even got some good power behind them. I expect that removing solid roller springs with ~240 pounds on the seat could be extremely dangerous without the proper tool. Is there a specific tool that will make this a safe procedure with the engine in the car? I will not be able to pull the heads with the engine in the car, because the head studs won't allow the clearance, BTW.

7. I can't think of a seventh set of questions. I'm just concerned about the state of the current springs and if anyone thinks there's a risk involved with a set of high pressure springs that may have been sitting for a year, and how I'm going to replace them myself once the engine in is in the car.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

Originally posted by jimlab
1. With these type of pressures, if the engine has been sitting for an extended period of time, should I be concerned about the inequal compression of the various springs? Should the engine have been turned over periodically to relieve pressure on springs that have been partially or fully compressed during that time? I'm assuming the answer is yes, or is it only due to heat cycling that springs tend to lose their tension?

Sorry to say, its probably time for new springs dude. I'd buy a new set, and replace the ones that are bad, and keep the rest as spares.

Originally posted by jimlab
2. What if this hasn't taken place? I asked if there was any possibility that the springs needed to be replaced after being under tension for so long, presumably without any cycling of the valvetrain, and was told that the springs are still "in spec". Short of taking them off and checking them on a spring pressure testure, can anyone honestly say that they haven't been affected during this time, or am I just worrying too much?

You were told the springs are fine by the builder (Mark or B&B I assume?). This would surprise me, but if they check ot fine then they I suppose they're fine,but I wouldn't trust them unless they were tested.

Originally posted by jimlab
3. The reason for concern is that the engine will soon (with any luck) be back in the dyno cell again prior to being shipped. Would a year (or so) sitting cause the springs to lose enough pressure that it would be dangerous to dyno without replacing them? I ask because I've got $1,500 worth of Ti valves (among other things) at risk...

Theres your reason to have the springs checked first.

Originally posted by jimlab
4. I've heard the "horror" stories about having to check lash every 2k-5k miles. Is this really a concern with modern springs and shaft rockers? What's a reasonable interval? I don't want to be pulling my valve covers off every 5k miles if I don't have to, although I would assume that checking them more regularly at the beginning of their life cycle would be appropriate, and more infrequently if the lash hasn't changed. Anyone know how good the Crower shaft rockers are at retaining their settings?

Never personally ran a Solid Roller for extended mileage on the street. My personal car has had 9k miles in the last 4 years LOL.

Originally posted by jimlab
5. Speaking of lifecycle, what's the reasonable expectancy for springs like this? 15k miles? 20k miles? That could easily be 3 or 4 years of driving in a low mileage car, so should they be replaced on a yearly or bi-yearly basis or another regular schedule rather than based on mileage? It's likely that they'll "sit" through the winters with periodic starting of the car to keep everything happy. I'm just curious what the prudent replacement interval should look like.

May sound bad, but I think 15-20k miles is a pipe dream. Really the only way to tell is by checking them, obviously cam profile plays a LARGE role in this. During winters I would simply back off all the rockers to preserve the springs.

Originally posted by jimlab
6. Besides a cylinder pressurizing fitting to hold the valves in place with compressed air, how do you remove springs with these pressures with the engine in the car and shaft rockers? Without a rocker stud to attach to, what do you do? I haven't come across any tool yet that will allow compressing springs with shaft rockers, let alone ones with these pressures. I've removed stock LT1 springs and they've even got some good power behind them. I expect that removing solid roller springs with ~240 pounds on the seat could be extremely dangerous without the proper tool. Is there a specific tool that will make this a safe procedure with the engine in the car? I will not be able to pull the heads with the engine in the car, because the head studs won't allow the clearance, BTW.

LSM Engineering makes a tool to compress the springs while on the car w/ Shaft Rockers (Bolts to the pedestal that the shafts mount to). Given your space confines, it may prove *interesting* as the tool isn't exactly compact (or cheap for that matter).

Originally posted by jimlab
7. I can't think of a seventh set of questions. I'm just concerned about the state of the current springs and if anyone thinks there's a risk involved with a set of high pressure springs that may have been sitting for a year, and how I'm going to replace them myself once the engine in is in the car.

Checking the springs while on the heads shouldn't be an issue. As far as swapping them in the car, well, dunno what to tell ya there. I know I've made my car as easy to work on as possible, lash adjustments, Springs swaps, etc etc etc.

Good luck man!

Ditto what kurtis said. they make compressors that mount to the shaft rocker mounts.

replace the valve springs, unless the motor was stored with the rockers loose.

for a little while, lash is gonna go out a lot. I would check it after 50 miles, then again at 300 then again at 800. after that, every oil change is MORE than enough.


Springs, check the pressures at 5k, then prolly every 2k after that. imo, thats $300 in the sheme of things for new springs ever 8-10k?

Thanks Kurtis, Jordon.

Jordon, did you get my e-mail I sent you a couple weeks ago detailing my "issues"? :)

I was told that the springs were fine and there was nothing to worry about, but the rapidity of the answer and the fact that the "people" involved with the project just seem to want to be done with it leads me to believe that it was just a "shut up Jim" response and that they weren't checked at all.

I sort of got the same feeling when I asked about putting a milder cam in for a bit better drivability while the front of the engine was unbuttoned and we were waiting on the timing cover. "Just put it in the car and drive it" is what I was told.

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to just have the engine packed up as-is and shipped up and take the problem out of hands that probably aren't concerned enough any longer to give me a solid level of confidence that I'm not going to end up with a 5-gallon bucket of broken parts?

If I were more confident that the eDist/LS1 coil pack solution was going to work (the harness from NE Dyno had to be redone, and the eDist wasn't receiving a good signal last I heard), I think the engine would already be on its way and screw the final tuning for now.

jim- i sent oyu a VERY long winded response.. i guess you didn't get it? ill send it again..

Originally posted by JordonMusser
jim- i sent oyu a VERY long winded response.. i guess you didn't get it? ill send it again.. Nope. I've got some pretty aggressive filtering going on, but for some reason, Outlook has dropped some legitimate e-mails to the delete box, and I don't always remember to look through what got stowed there before exiting. I wondered why I hadn't heard from you. :)

Latest update is that the engine will be crated up in the next few days and shipped up to me. I'll deal with final tuning, or changing cams, or whatever ends up happening with it.

Originally posted by jimlab
Latest update is that the engine will be crated up in the next few days and shipped up to me. I'll deal with final tuning, or changing cams, or whatever ends up happening with it.

FWIW I think this is a good decision. You may not have the experience Mark does but at least you're willing to put forth the time and effort to get it finished.

while were on the topic and I have "Jordan and the solid roller team's" attention-

Should I have gone solid roller....

my only problem is i'm using LT1 castings....

I can turn around and do it now-
i just placed my order for a COMPLETE top end (lifters to valves to heads, retainers, springs, pushrods ect)

if you want max power NA, hell yes solid roller

Solid roller is the only way to go fast NA.....no doubt about it. Even with stock ported LT1 castings, as long as they flow well. Just dont buy the Crane 11522 lifters....or any Crane lifter IMO.

Jim, setting lash will not be that much of an issue for you after the break in milege (~1500 miles for things to settle). With shaftmounts I would check them every 3k or so, but people have gone 8-10k miles with them and the lash has been dead on. Pretty impressive.

Jason

this means the added cost of upgrading lifters, pushrods and .... rockers?

and aa fluid dampener i'm sure....

I think I'm going to keep the engine, after discussion with Jordon, and do what my gut feeling has been telling me to do for months now and go with a milder solid roller in the 240ish range.

Anyone want to be my good buddy and run my stuff through Desktop Dyno 2000 and give me some recommendations? I can provide most of the specs, and those I can't, I can probably get from Mark. Heck, I might even be able to get the configuration he used originally. :)

Jim,

FWIW, I agree with your decision to get the sucker up to you and handle it locally. I'd like to give your setup a shot on DD, and would really like to see some of the specs - your engine has had a definite influence on how I'm thinking I want my engine to get done. Send em along if you want me to run em through - minotaur15@hotmail.com is the email...

Trey- no reason to get a fluid dampner cause its a solid. I never have one.

crane 11522s, $220. about the same cost as comp Rs.

push rods, just a diff length.. same price. rockers, same ones..


the real cost increase is the cam(gotta go billet) and valve springs. IMo, you should use pacalloy springs($300 springs)

Well, I strongly agree with crating it up and getting it out of there, but I will disagree with some of the other stuff here.

If the springs were cycled before assembly and as long as they’re not installed so they are really close to coil bind with the valves open, them sitting for a year assembled should not hurt them significantly (I would still store them with the rockers backed off/removed…). Heat is what kills valve springs (causes them to take a set). All this being said, if you’re really worried about it, it’s not that hard to pull them before the engine is installed and test them. (in other words, I’d rather be safe then sorry, but I doubt that you’ll have a problem)

WRT to messing with them in the car, I’m not sure what your access to them is like, but if it’s like in a 4th gen, I’d suggest looking for a cam driven compressor that has a jessle adaptor, that has the advantage that you can use it in tight spaces since you can turn the handle in any direction that you need for room. I usually use a cheapy Summit one that I’ve made a little adaptor to work with shaft style setups, but I believe the Moroso one (that summit copied) is available with an optional adaptor.

Originally posted by WS6 TA
Heat is what kills valve springs (causes them to take a set).This is what I would have thought would be logical, but compressing a spring to any extent for a long period of time has to take some of the tension out of it, I would assume. As you said, better safe than sorry. A $300 set of springs is nothing, relatively speaking.

WRT to messing with them in the car, I’m not sure what your access to them is like, but if it’s like in a 4th gen, I’d suggest looking for a cam driven compressor that has a jessle adaptor, that has the advantage that you can use it in tight spaces since you can turn the handle in any direction that you need for room. I usually use a cheapy Summit one that I’ve made a little adaptor to work with shaft style setups, but I believe the Moroso one (that summit copied) is available with an optional adaptor. This should give you a rough idea of the space available. The engine isn't tucked under anything, and there will be easy access to most if not all the springs, but obviously leaning over a fender isn't as handy as working on an engine on a stand. :)

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlab/pics/rx7/Test_engine_left.jpg

Originally posted by jimlab
This should give you a rough idea of the space available. The engine isn't tucked under anything, and there will be easy access to most if not all the springs, but obviously leaning over a fender isn't as handy as working on an engine on a stand. :)

Hell you've got more room than a 4th gen does. IMO you'll have no problems changing them on the car :D

Edit: I think this is the tool WS6 TA was talking about:

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=27035

Originally posted by Soma07
Hell you've got more room than a 4th gen does. IMO you'll have no problems changing them on the car :DI know. The back half of the engine isn't buried under the firewall, and I'll be able to see and access my spark plugs. :)

Edit: I think this is the tool WS6 TA was talking about:

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=27035 Wonder if that works with Crower shaft rockers. I'm surprised that Crower doesn't offer a tool or at least an adapter of some sort for a standard stud-mount compressing tool.

Jim,
The Pacaloy springs should check fine, and will have a much higher resilence to tensile fatigue. Although, their is one major downside of the pacaloy material, instead of getting a little soft before failure they seem to dramatically loose pressure. this is the tradeoff for having a material that lasts longer. My general theory for my driver customers w/ pacaloy's is to replace once a year as preventative maintenance.


On Another note, If you do replace the springs, Make sure you take a good look at the ProPacAlloy springs. We have seen dramatic increases in spring life, even on street driven cars with over 1050Lbs of open pressure.


Thanks
Dennis

Dennis, what is the difference between the ProPacallys and the regular Pac's? I run the 943 pacalloys on my motor....

Jason

Jason / Jim,
Follow this link for more info.

http://www.compcams.com/information/Products/ValveSprings/2003ValveSpringCatalog/

Thanks
Dennis

Hmm....so what I am getting is that the "pacalloys" we all talk about and run are actually considered the ProPac's then? I dont see any other springs that are called pacalloys....

Thanks Dennis, and by the way....welcome to the board.
Jason

Jason, here's a link to Comp Cam's catalog which lists the Pacaloy springs...

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/303.html

I didn't look that hard, but the first mention I found of Pro PAC springs was on this page...

http://www.compcams.com/information/Products/ValveSprings/2003ValveSpringCatalog/750-782_Page-14.jpg

Jason,
The Pro-Pac spring is just a "new and improved" longer life alternative to comps proprietary alloy "pacalloy" spring. Some claim as high as 10 times the life of a tradition pacalloy spring.

Thanks
Dennis

my humble opinion....if you really want to run the best solid roller spring, buy some PSI springs.

You can only get them through a dealer though

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dennis/Jim!
Jason

Originally posted by airflowdevelop
Jason,
The Pro-Pac spring is just a "new and improved" longer life alternative to comps proprietary alloy "pacalloy" spring. Some claim as high as 10 times the life of a tradition pacalloy spring.

Thanks
Dennis

I wasn't impressed. After the guy at Comp gave us the same story (Supposedly going to last us all/most of the season) we put a set on the intake side of an engine.

We had to change 3 springs after 3 passes at the track. :dead:

I'm a believer in the Manley NexTeks, another Racer I know has had Fair luck with the PSI stuff also.

supposedly by rumor (and somehow it seems true enough to believe) PSI's premium spring is the pacalloy. of course this maybe hard to believe...but this is why I believe it. the last 2 digits of the PSI spring are supposed to be the same as the pacalloy order # from comp....if you check the spring specs you will see this is true...the 2 most popular pacalloys would be the 947 and 948...PSI's part # is 1047 and 1048.....

Some food for thought
Dennis

Also worth noting, some cams are just hard on valvesprings. You can take two cams with near identical specification from different manufacturers and one may get twice the spring life. I don't pretend to know exactly why but I'd suspect it's in the lobe design..... closing and opening ramps.

Comp makes a good spring in the Pacs.... but I personally prefer Isky's toolroom springs over any other.

-Mindgame

Originally posted by Mindgame
Also worth noting, some cams are just hard on valvesprings. You can take two cams with near identical specification from different manufacturers and one may get twice the spring life. I don't pretend to know exactly why but I'd suspect it's in the lobe design..... closing and opening ramps.

-Mindgame
Yepper, I agree with you.

The software plays a big part, as you know, 'Game.

It's not just the ramps, it's everything. Good cam design looks at lift, velocity, acceleration, jerk and the next 3 derivatives (Snap, Crackle and Pop, for want of better names). If those are controlled, the next biggie is getting the profile ACCURATELY ground onto the cam. This involves a nearly perfect master, and a stiff, balanced gam grinding machine. Maybe its no coincidence that some cam manufacturers dedicate one of their best cam grinding machines exclusively to Winston (Nextel?) Cup cams. 9000+ and flat tappets for a million revs is top of the heap in cam design/manufacture in my book.

Any little deviation, which isn't easily measured, can cause bad, not good vibrations...apologies to B. Wilson, one of my favorite composers. This plays havoc with springs. Spintron testing of systems is very useful here.

My $.02

Just FYI, I got the specs on my cam. 257/266 @ 0.050", .683"/.672" on a 112 lsa.

Hypothetically speaking, if you didn't have to rely on engine vacuum for your braking system and had a manual transmission, does anyone think this cam is just too big for the street and that I should look into something a bit smaller?

Jordon has recommended something in the 245/250 range, but it's a fair bit of work to pull the cam and install a new one if there's not going to be that much increase in drivability, if you know what I mean. :)

Jim,
What compression? What is the duration at .200? How many cubes?

Dennis

Originally posted by airflowdevelop
Jim,
What compression? What is the duration at .200? How many cubes?Sorry, forgot that there was someone in this thread who doesn't know about my engine. :)

11.8:1 CR, don't know, 396 CID.

Jim,
That should be real respectable. It would be nice to know the duration @ .200, but the overall overlap cannot be too hateful.

Dennis

Originally posted by airflowdevelop
That should be real respectable. It would be nice to know the duration @ .200, but the overall overlap cannot be too hateful. Not sure what you mean by "respectable". I already know it's capable of a ton of power, I'm just worried about the street manners. :)

The cam spec card should come along with the engine. I don't know if Cam Motion includes that detail, but Mark just gave me the 0.050" duration and lift numbers.

Hmm, from a drivability standpoint and based on my own experiences I like Jordon's suggestion.
UD grinds some good cams, I've used quite a few and if given some time I'll look up some receipts and dyno sheets and tell you how they performed. This has been a few years so I'll need a refresher. They were in that duration range (in sbc strokers) but I don't recall the exact specs
One I am really familiar with is the Comp XR286R. Me and a buddy put together a 381 last year.... 1st gen engine with TPIS Miniram, Accel dfi, Dart pro1 heads... using that cam and while being a real "racey" cam it was good on the valvesprings (also equipped with spring oilers which I like for street cars). Specs are (from memory) 246/252 .57/.57 110 lsa.... if you're interested, might wanna see if it's on their site.
Anyways, it pulled 11" Hg at ~950 rpm and by the way, we ran 1.6's on the intake side. Engine made ~630 hp at ~6800 rpm, again from memory, and was "streetable" enough by my standards.

-Mindgame

Jim, I think the cam you have in the motor right now is one that will give you *decent* driveability along with great power. However, you need to ask yourself if you want more driveability or more power....you have FAST, so rpms are not the problem.

If memory serves me correctly, isnt your current cam the second generation cam in your motor? I think Mark told me that your first one was too big for your needs.

In agreement with Jordon I will also add this......I had a Cam Motions 247/250 .658/.659 112 grind in my 396.....similar to Jordons old cam in his 401. This cam drove almost no loss in driveability over a stock LT1 IMO. Kinda like a well tuned HOT cam setup in a stock motor.

My new cam (same exact top end as you Jim) is a 255/260 solid roller. I dont know the exact lift, but it is near .700". Should be just right for what I am wanting....decent driveability, and good power.

Personally after all you have been thru....I would just run the cam that you have now to start. Chances are that it will probably be to your liking.....if not, drop $400 and some labor and change it :) Plus, your motor is basically already tuned.

I dont know? :)
Jason

Originally posted by airflowdevelop
supposedly by rumor (and somehow it seems true enough to believe) PSI's premium spring is the pacalloy. of course this maybe hard to believe...but this is why I believe it. the last 2 digits of the PSI spring are supposed to be the same as the pacalloy order # from comp....if you check the spring specs you will see this is true...the 2 most popular pacalloys would be the 947 and 948...PSI's part # is 1047 and 1048.....

Some food for thought
Dennis

before i built my turbo motor i was building a n/a bowtie 406 with my same heads and a be-jesus solid roller. I dont think PSIs are the pacalloy springs because the open and closed pressure on the PSI springs i bought (then returned) was no where near what the pacalloys could produce.

It was a 1.55" spring that was going i think close to 700lbs open

I actually like Jason's suggestion better.:)

Get it all together and drive the thing a bit to see what you think. Cause no one can truely know what you consider to be streetable better than you.
This is a really lightweight car, so that will change things up a bit. If you don't like it, pull the cam swap components, and go with something a bit "milder".

Good luck.

-Mindgame

Thanks 'Game. :)

So what's the general consensus on my valve springs? Here's the best plan of action I've come up with so far...

1. When the engine shows up, immediately relieve the pressure on the springs. It's going to sit for awhile longer while I finish up some other things, so there's no use doing more damage than necessary, if any is being done.

2. Buy a spring pressure tester and check the springs for peace of mind before I install the engine. It'd be easier to work on out of the car, so I can find out if the springs have lost tension during the time the engine was sitting.

3. Buy a new set of Pacaloy springs, if necessary. I've seen votes for Isky, PSI, and a few others, but no real proof that Comp Cams Pacaloy springs aren't just as good. If I can match diameter and spring pressure, then there's always the option of going with another spring. Does anyone truly think that one brand will outlast another? I assume they all have about the same life expectancy on the street, give or take a couple thousand miles, right?

4. Sell my used Pacaloy springs to someone with a hydraulic roller cam. Just kidding. :)

Originally posted by jimlab
Thanks 'Game. :)

So what's the general consensus on my valve springs? Here's the best plan of action I've come up with so far...

1. When the engine shows up, immediately relieve the pressure on the springs. It's going to sit for awhile longer while I finish up some other things, so there's no use doing more damage than necessary, if any is being done.

2. Buy a spring pressure tester and check the springs for peace of mind before I install the engine. It'd be easier to work on out of the car, so I can find out if the springs have lost tension during the time the engine was sitting.

3. Buy a new set of Pacaloy springs, if necessary. I've seen votes for Isky, PSI, and a few others, but no real proof that Comp Cams Pacaloy springs aren't just as good. If I can match diameter and spring pressure, then there's always the option of going with another spring. Does anyone truly think that one brand will outlast another? I assume they all have about the same life expectancy on the street, give or take a couple thousand miles, right?

4. Sell my used Pacaloy springs to someone with a hydraulic roller cam. Just kidding. :)

Oky doke, I'll throw some stuff at ya but will likely think of something else later.

If the springs are within spec keep em and get on with it. Just keep a close eye on things for the first 3k miles. So an on-head spring checker is a good buy and should be in the toolbox of anyone running a hefty solid roller on the street.

Isky, PSI, Comp, Manley, and let me slip in..... Erson. Cause they all make a good spring. I got burned on a set of K-Motions so I won't ever suggest them again but I feel confident in using any of the springs listed.
In race engines, I've had better luck with Isky's toolroom springs than any other. They just seem to be more fatigue resistent than the competition but that's just been my experiences. I wouldn't lose sleep if I had to run a Comp pacalloy either. I would run spring oilers though... either that or buy a rocker that incorporates it.;)

-Mindgame

Originally posted by Mindgame
So an on-head spring checker is a good buy and should be in the toolbox of anyone running a hefty solid roller on the street.Where should I look to find such a beast?

In race engines, I've had better luck with Isky's toolroom springs than any other. They just seem to be more fatigue resistent than the competition but that's just been my experiences. I wouldn't lose sleep if I had to run a Comp pacalloy either. I would run spring oilers though... either that or buy a rocker that incorporates it.;)I'm not sure which valve covers I'm getting. I'll explain... the original plan was for the taller valve covers that were on my engine to go to Mark and he measured and was having a shorter "blank" (no breather or oil cap hole) set made so that I could custom configure them as clearance dictated. I don't know if that got done or not. One of the things that I asked about was integral spring oilers in the valve covers, and was told it wasn't worth the effort. I've already got Crower shaft mount rockers in a semi-rare offset, so if I'm going to oil my springs, it'll have to be using some other method. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

My apologies Jim... got a little bogged down in useless 15* head swap stuff.

Originally posted by jimlab
Where should I look to find such a beast?

Intercomp makes a very accurate digital model. You can get it from Herbert Performance.
If you want something a bit nicer $$, go to Buxton Engineering's website.... very nice piece that'd be just as well at home in an F16 cockpit as in your tool box.;)

I'm not sure which valve covers I'm getting. I'll explain... the original plan was for the taller valve covers that were on my engine to go to Mark and he measured and was having a shorter "blank" (no breather or oil cap hole) set made so that I could custom configure them as clearance dictated. I don't know if that got done or not. One of the things that I asked about was integral spring oilers in the valve covers, and was told it wasn't worth the effort. I've already got Crower shaft mount rockers in a semi-rare offset, so if I'm going to oil my springs, it'll have to be using some other method. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Well, check with BilletFab http://www.billetfab.com/. They make a really nice tall centerbolt valvecover with the spring oilers. There are a couple of others but I'm at a loss right now.....
The oilers are a good idea. Alot of drag racers think they're a waste of time..... wel hell, alot of engine builders period. But I think a street engine should be built like an endurance one... cause that is what it is. Chuck is the one who suggested them to me and his reasoning stems from research in spring heat and the pressure loss associated with it. You can't really see the loss on a cold engine after the heat cycle.... he tests the spring pressure on a running engine using some type of sensor. Anyways, he makes a very strong argument for using them and considering the amount of money already spent on putting an engine of this caliber together.... I have to say, why the hell not. For best effect, route the line through a cooler first, then to the valve cover.:)

Good luck.

-Mindgame

edit: added BilletFab link

Originally posted by Mindgame
My apologies Jim... got a little bogged down in useless 15* head swap stuff.I hear ya. :)

Intercomp makes a very accurate digital model. You can get it from Herbert Performance.
If you want something a bit nicer $$, go to Buxton Engineering's website.... very nice piece that'd be just as well at home in an F16 cockpit as in your tool box.;)Very nice. I'll be needing one of those in the near future, I can tell. :)

Well, check with BilletFab http://www.billetfab.com/. They make a really nice tall centerbolt valvecover with the spring oilers. There are a couple of others but I'm at a loss right now.....My current covers were made by Billet Fab, and if I have replacements, they were also made by Billet Fab. Not sure if their the "Pro" versions that can be gun drilled for spring oilers or not, but it's worth looking into when the engine shows up. BTW, my heads are perimeter bolt, not center. :)

I didn't see any information on their site about how the spring oilers are fed. Is an external line(s) required from some pressurized source? I could take it after the front-mounted Mocal cooler if that's the case.

The oilers are a good idea.I thought so too, but I get talked out of a lot of my ideas. I also get talked into a lot... Fred's almost got me convinced that I need an Accusump too. :)

Doh!

That's right, you are using the 215's. Billet Fabs stuff is real nice too.:D
If you wanted to go to an oiler type, then you'd have a few more choices than the c-bolt guys..... Moroso, Shaver, etcetera.

Yep, a pressurized source is the way. Using a -12 line from the cooler is the setup I'm using.

The "Accusump" has saved many engines.:)
It's a good idea, just need to find some room for it but yeah.... it's a great safety measure and super easy to maintain. Plus you can prelube the engine before startup.... :cool:

-Mindgame

Originally posted by Mindgame
Yep, a pressurized source is the way. Using a -12 line from the cooler is the setup I'm using.-12 to feed the valve covers? Do you have any pictures?

Originally posted by jimlab
2. Buy a spring pressure tester and check the springs for peace of mind before I install the engine. It'd be easier to work on out of the car, so I can find out if the springs have lost tension during the time the engine was sitting.

Quick note here, make sure it's on a good stand while doing this. I just got stuck lifting a 500ci caddy off a friend of mine that dumped the engine while messing with the valve springs while on an engine stand. 600# landing in your lap is not good (almost as bad as deciding that you could just lift it off him, sometimes it's nice to be big...)

Jimbo,

You've got mail.:)

-Mindgame