Funny Cadillac Quote in Motor Trend..

In the halls of the Tubular Nation (GM's Ren Center in Detroit), Cadillac's new styling direction which debuted with the Cadillac Sixteen is being called "Art & Bob". Sorry Darth....looks like it's here to stay..

Originally posted by formula79
In the halls of the Tubular Nation (GM's Ren Center in Detroit), Cadillac's new styling direction which debuted with the Cadillac Sixteen is being called "Art & Bob". Sorry Darth....looks like it's here to stay..

Ya, this makes me question something from Cadillac for the first time in a while.

I mean, it's like taking the Arts & Sciences, and watering it down... and blanding it out. :(

CTS, SRX, XLR, Cien... these are excellent. Now , I know you can't play the same theme out forever... but I think it would be idiotic to water it down so soon when such success has been had with it so far.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Ya, this makes me question something from Cadillac for the first time in a while.

I mean, it's like taking the Arts & Sciences, and watering it down... and blanding it out. :(

CTS, SRX, XLR, Cien... these are excellent. Now , I know you can't play the same theme out forever... but I think it would be idiotic to water it down so soon when such success has been had with it so far.

I actually like the Sixteen alot...I think it is especilly strong in the dead on front view where the CTS and XLR are akaward.

Originally posted by formula79
I actually like the Sixteen alot...I think it is especilly strong in the dead on front view where the CTS and XLR are akaward.

I don't think Sixteen is awful, really... I just don't think it is as 'strong' as CTS, XLR, and the others.

Cien is still my favorite concept car in the last 10 years... possibly ever!

I think the big missing piece from the production cars is the thin headlamps. The concept cars always have these nice thin, elegent lap treatments, but the production cars have these huge honking bezels.

Thats whats making the strait on look so awkward.

The lines on the XLR, Escalade, and Cien are nice, and on some of the models, even gorgeous. However, the CTS comes out looking weird with the same makeover like it's missing something. I really can't explain. Initially, the CTS even came out as "ugly" to me. Like the Escalade, I've warmed up to it's styling though.

I'd say the new styling over at Cadillac is a love it or hate it type of feeling. Some love it, other hate it. For the most part, i like it.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I don't think Sixteen is awful, really... I just don't think it is as 'strong' as CTS, XLR, and the others.

Cien is still my favorite concept car in the last 10 years... possibly ever!

That's how I feel.

Cadillac has a winning (though controversial) design, that's not only representative of Cadillac's turn around, it's attracting the same young (and "young feeling old") crowd that in the 80s and 90s were loyal BMW buyers.

Cadillac, as you said, has a "strong" design. As the sales are showing, "strong" is good. :)

Originally posted by formula79
In the halls of the Tubular Nation (GM's Ren Center in Detroit), Cadillac's new styling direction which debuted with the Cadillac Sixteen is being called "Art & Bob".

Quite frankly I think Bob needs to realize that what Bob likes/dislikes isn't what everyone else likes/dislikes. Sure he's there to provide his influence on product and design but he's ultimately there to ensure the product sells. So what's wrong with Cadillac's direction Bob? :mad:

The problem with the Sixteen is that it's difficult to reconcile that long hood and low, wide features with the whole Art & Science theme. Hence, they had to modify it a bit by rounding off some surfaces. I think they did a good job of executing the showcar, but my gut feeling is that applying it to the current product would only serve to water things down.

BMW and Mercedes did not get thier base market with "like it or not" styling.

The Sixteen IMO is most successful from the front view.

Also did anyone notice that the XV16 is rated up to 7000RPM's aided by VVT?

Thats alot for a big pushrod motor;) Wonder if the new ^.0L will share that ability?

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
Quite frankly I think Bob needs to realize that what Bob likes/dislikes isn't what everyone else likes/dislikes. Sure he's there to provide his influence on product and design but he's ultimately there to ensure the product sells. So what's wrong with Cadillac's direction Bob? :mad:
I agree completely. Cadillac's new direction is spot-on and doesn't need dumbing down. If the new GP and Malibu are indicative of Lutz's personal taste, then someone needs to temper it.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Cien is still my favorite concept car in the last 10 years... possibly ever!

:bow: :thumb:

Originally posted by Darth Xed
I don't think Sixteen is awful, really... I just don't think it is as 'strong' as CTS, XLR, and the others.

Cien is still my favorite concept car in the last 10 years... possibly ever!

My exact feelings, also.

If you start watering down the Caddy line you'll end up with what was around in the mid 90s, only on Sigma.

"General Motors: good at ruining a great thing."

Originally posted by Chuck!
My exact feelings, also.

If you start watering down the Caddy line you'll end up with what was around in the mid 90s, only on Sigma.

"General Motors: good at ruining a great thing."

I don't see the Sixteen as watered down...more liek refined.

I don't think anyone's saying the Sixteen isn't a beauutiful car, far from it. It's just that "beautiful" isn't "daring" or "exciting", which no doubt, the CTS, XLR, and their new SUV is.

Cadillac's current look is distinctive IMHO. There is no doubt in anyone's mind what you are looking at. But looking at the Sixteen, though it is an exceptional looking car, it's one of those designs that would look just as acceptable as a Lincoln concept (pre-RR themed grill age), or even a Chrysler concept (60s era) as much (or even more) as it does a Cadillac. I think that's what's meant by "watered down": less distinctive.

Originally posted by formula79
I don't see the Sixteen as watered down...more liek refined.

Its a different style than the current caddys. Sure its an OK looking car, but its a step backwards.

Originally posted by guionM
I don't think anyone's saying the Sixteen isn't a beauutiful car, far from it. It's just that "beautiful" isn't "daring" or "exciting", which no doubt, the CTS, XLR, and their new SUV is.

Cadillac's current look is distinctive IMHO. There is no doubt in anyone's mind what you are looking at. But looking at the Sixteen, though it is an exceptional looking car, it's one of those designs that would look just as acceptable as a Lincoln concept (pre-RR themed grill age), or even a Chrysler concept (60s era) as much (or even more) as it does a Cadillac. I think that's what's meant by "watered down": less distinctive.

Excellent explanation!!

Perfectly said.

Cadillac needs to retain it's distinctive cutting edge styling... It's working... roll with it! :cool:

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Excellent explanation!!

Perfectly said.

Cadillac needs to retain it's distinctive cutting edge styling... It's working... roll with it! :cool:

BMW and Mercedes Benz didn;t get where they are with cutting edge, like it or not styling. Me thinks if the CTS was a little less akward sales would be even greater. Seems Cadillac is attracting new buyers with its current styling at the risk of alienating it's current base and desired (BMW buyer base). Aside from some hip hop stars I doubt many MB or BMW buyers are looking at anything buy maybe the CTS-V. GM needs to beat the German's with better engineered cars...not like it or not wrappers.

The Sixteen may not be as daring, but alot of people seemed to intsantly like it at first glance than they did any of the Art and Science cars..with the exception of the Cein.

Originally posted by formula79
BMW and Mercedes Benz didn;t get where they are with cutting edge, like it or not styling. Me thinks if the CTS was a little less akward sales would be even greater. Seems Cadillac is attracting new buyers with its current styling at the risk of alienating it's current base and desired (BMW buyer base). Aside from some hip hop stars I doubt many MB or BMW buyers are looking at anything buy maybe the CTS-V. GM needs to beat the German's with better engineered cars...not like it or not wrappers.

The Sixteen may not be as daring, but alot of people seemed to intsantly like it at first glance than they did any of the Art and Science cars..with the exception of the Cein.

My first thought when I saw the CTS were "BMW 3-Series" competitor.

I think it's right there....

Perhaps 'cutting edge' styling isn't what got BMW and M-B their reputations, but who's to say that there is not more than one path to the same place?

BMW has a clear, distinctive brand identity... Cadillac is now establishing that with distinctive, cutting edge Arts & Sciences styling, and even moreso, IMO.

As far as better engineered cars... well, I have yet to hear anything bad about CTS, except the occasional interior gripe and lack of power gripe, which are being address for MY2004 anyway. The funny thing aboabout the lack of power gripe is that CTS has better power for 2003 than the base 3-series!

CTS styling and Sigma engineering are winning people over!

Originally posted by Darth Xed
My first thought when I saw the CTS were "BMW 3-Series" competitor.

I think it's right there....

Perhaps 'cutting edge' styling isn't what got BMW and M-B their reputations, but who's to say that there is not more than one path to the same place?

BMW has a clear, distinctive brand identity... Cadillac is now establishing that with distinctive, cutting edge Arts & Sciences styling, and even moreso, IMO.

As far as better engineered cars... well, I have yet to hear anything bad about CTS, except the occasional interior gripe and lack of power gripe, which are being address for MY2004 anyway. The funny thing aboabout the lack of power gripe is that CTS has better power for 2003 than the base 3-series!

CTS styling and Sigma engineering are winning people over!

Cadillac's engineering is great, but I am willing to bet very few people compare it to a BMW. For instance, ride in an Escalade...then ride in a X5....It becomes painfully obvious that the Escalde is a warmed over Tahoe and the X5 is a purpose built luxury/performance SUV.

The CTS is great, and the new STS is gonna be good, but I feel they will need more to be taken seriously...and a styling that appeals to a wider audience.

The Sixteen unlike the Art and Science cars is undeniably Cadillac in appearence...long hood, low roofline, elegent curves, just my opinion though.

Originally posted by formula79
For instance, ride in an Escalade...then ride in a X5....It becomes painfully obvious that the Escalde is a warmed over Tahoe and the X5 is a purpose built luxury/performance SUV.


However, you must've missed the link to the article on the new SRX I posted last week. Seems in this critic's eyes the SRX rode more comfortably and was more stable than the X5 and had less wind/road noise than the all new Lexus SUV (whatever alphabet soup name it has), which was painstakingly developed to reduce interior noise....

Originally posted by formula79
BMW and Mercedes Benz didn;t get where they are with cutting edge, like it or not styling. Me thinks if the CTS was a little less akward sales would be even greater. Seems Cadillac is attracting new buyers with its current styling at the risk of alienating it's current base and desired (BMW buyer base). Aside from some hip hop stars I doubt many MB or BMW buyers are looking at anything buy maybe the CTS-V. GM needs to beat the German's with better engineered cars...not like it or not wrappers.

The Sixteen may not be as daring, but alot of people seemed to intsantly like it at first glance than they did any of the Art and Science cars..with the exception of the Cein.

BMW and Mercedes got to where they are over many years of a built up reputation.

On the other hand, Cadillac had to resort to it's strong styling statement to overcome it's less than stellar reputation, and get people to stop and take a second look. And in one of GM's ingenious acts, it worked like nobody's business! Just think, a combination of new quality commitment, a new looks, and a serious RWD chassis has moved Cadillac from second bananna to Lincoln to near (and very realistically, soon to pass) BMW's position in the market place in less than 3 years!

Sixteen is a beautiful car. But it could wear the Lincoln or Chrysler nameplate just as comfortably. That's where the problem is. A problem you don't have looking at the twin kidney's of the BMW, or the grill and smoothed out conventional bodies of Mercedes.