Could the next Camaro be a rebodied GTO?

Im starting to think that the next Camaro could be built off the next 2007 GTO. While alot of specualtion has lead to it being off a variation of the Solstice but basing it on that GM is still trying to find other "VOLUME" avenues makes wonder if they dont realize that an affordable Camaro is about as "VOLUME" of car you could hope to have and would most likely sell double what the Solstice and its Vauxhal twin could ever hope to sell in a year.

If GM decides to keep the next 2006 Impala FWD V6 with possible a AWD V8 as an option then I would think that maybe the next Camaro will share the same platform as the next-gen GTO.

While the GTO would stay as highpowered V8 RWD fully-loaded $35,000 (only option being sunroof and automatic tranny) coupe then the Camaro would be offered in a $25,000 V6 variation and a base SS V8 in the low $30,000's while a fully loaded SS being about the same price as the standard GTO. The Camaro could have a hatchback (like the 4th gen) while the GTO will have a coupe/trunk. I wouldnt be surprised to see the next-gen GTO have a convertible variation as well. I think it would be great if the next-gen GTO looked like a Solstice on steriods with seating for four.

GM needs to keep the Camaro and GTO different enough not to compete against themselves so the base and SS Camaro can go after the base and GT Mustangs and the GTO can hunt down the Mustang Cobra.

Who's going to buy a $25K V6 Camaro when you'll be able to pick up a 2005+ V6 Mustang for around $18K?

PS - I can't remember where I saw the pricing, but in some recent article Ford alluded to the fact that it would be around that price.

Agreed with WERM, no one will buy a 25 grand v6 camaro when the stang comes in around 18. while i really liked the idea reading it on another thread of the Camaro and GTO sharing platforms, i dont think the GTO should target the Cobra limiting Camaro's performance numbers. if the c6 is gonna have viper-esk performance, then the 5th gen is gonna have alot of playing room to go after the Cobra.
BTW, if certain members here read your post, they're not going to like the omission of the Z28, just a warning ;) :D

You are not going to find a base/strippy $19,000 2005 mustang for over a year or 2 after its initially released. By the time you could find a base/strippy Stang in 2006 or 2007 its price would most likely be increased around $21,000 anyways. By the time you add real options that everyone wants I would be willing to bet it going to cost around $25,000.

If Ford advertises the base 2005 Stang "starting @ under $20,000" it will be solely for advertising reasons because I can guarantee you athat you will not be able to find one since most all dealers will only be getting LOADED vehicles with better profit margins.

You could technically buy a new 2003 Audi A4 for $26,000 (as if you wanted one) but no dealer has the base models and by the time you add a few options its suddenly in the low $30,000's.

I think Ford's goal is a base V6 Mustang at $18K.

If GM doesn't choose to compete at that level.....that's one thing. But a $25K base Camaro had better be worth the $7,000 price premium over a base Mustang.

Hmmm, I like that idea. And the old Muscle Tone body would fit on that platform nicely :D Hell, GM could then have the next gen out as a 2006 if they wanted :eek:

As far as the V6 option....well, the V6 camaro could be another outlet for the SC 3800, or the I6. Either way, severely outperforming the V6 stang......and well worth the extra cash. That is assuming, the 25K is for a loaded V6. If not, it could still be a bit rich or some peoples blood.

And I would not limit the Z28s performance to GTO standards....hell, its had to deal with the vette cap its whole life *cough* COPO *cough* :cool: If anything, I say make the Z lighter, and maybe even have a little more power. Just keep the cost down in other areas: less options, cheaper interior :D I think we're used to that.

However, it does kinda defeat the idea of not reviving the TA twin of the camaro....doesnt it ;)

Originally posted by 95Zvert
Hmmm, I like that idea. And the old Muscle Tone body would fit on that platform nicely :D Hell, GM could then have the next gen out as a 2006 if they wanted :eek:

As far as the V6 option....well, the V6 camaro could be another outlet for the SC 3800, or the I6. Either way, severely outperforming the V6 stang......and well worth the extra cash. That is assuming, the 25K is for a loaded V6. If not, it could still be a bit rich or some peoples blood.

And I would not limit the Z28s performance to GTO standards....hell, its had to deal with the vette cap its whole life *cough* COPO *cough* :cool: If anything, I say make the Z lighter, and maybe even have a little more power. Just keep the cost down in other areas: less options, cheaper interior :D I think we're used to that.

However, it does kinda defeat the idea of not reviving the TA twin of the camaro....doesnt it ;) ]

Holden sells pretty affordable V6 Supercharged Monaro and Commodore. Plus the the cost will come down once the cars are built here.

Interesting concept however, the next GTO's running mate should wear a bowtie emblem but maybe not a Camaro nameplate...

Originally posted by WERM
Who's going to buy a $25K V6 Camaro when you'll be able to pick up a 2005+ V6 Mustang for around $18K?

PS - I can't remember where I saw the pricing, but in some recent article Ford alluded to the fact that it would be around that price.

From what I hear, you're about right on the Mustang price, but I think $25 large is probablly a bit high for a V6 Camaro.

Expanding on what I wrote in the other thread, what if (again I'm only speculating) Camaro's base engine is the same 250hp V6 as in the CTS? The VE cars are going to be a variation of Sigma, and as we know, it's been redone enough to fit an LSx engine.

The 3.2 V6 stick in the 3600 pound CTS can do a sub 7 second run to 60mph. The 20 horse stronger 3.5 in a car weighing at least 2-300 lbs lighter may bring that down to near 6 seconds flat.

I think it might be worth $25 grand in that instance.

Originally posted by guionM
From what I hear, you're about right on the Mustang price, but I think $25 large is probablly a bit high for a V6 Camaro.

Expanding on what I wrote in the other thread, what if (again I'm only speculating) Camaro's base engine is the same 250hp V6 as in the CTS? The VE cars are going to be a variation of Sigma, and as we know, it's been redone enough to fit an LSx engine.

The 3.2 V6 stick in the 3600 pound CTS can do a sub 7 second run to 60mph. The 20 horse stronger 3.5 in a car weighing at least 2-300 lbs lighter may bring that down to near 6 seconds flat.

I think it might be worth $25 grand in that instance.

Yes, it may be worth $25k... but I think the problem is you are pricing yourself out of your market... Camaro needs to start under $20k... probably quite a bit under.

Plus 6 second 0-60 isn't as exclusive as it used to be, really... still fast, but you can find that performance in a more than a few places now... though I think this would be excellent performance for the base model.

Camaro will always be tied to Mustang, whether they are similar cars or not, really... therefore, the pricing needs to fall in line with Mustang.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Yes, it may be worth $25k... but I think the problem is you are pricing yourself out of your market... Camaro needs to start under $20k... probably quite a bit under...

Could this be why Chevrolet is suddenly interested in getting in on the Solstice program?

Is this why Bob Lutz 2 weeks ago said he saw the whole Solstice program as a modern version of the '64 1/2 Mustang?

:think:

Originally posted by guionM
Could this be why Chevrolet is suddenly interested in getting in on the Solstice program?

Is this why Bob Lutz 2 weeks ago said he saw the whole Solstice program as a modern version of the '64 1/2 Mustang?

:think:

Seems to make sense.

Really, I give you credit for being the first here to see the possibility of a Solstice-based F5... It seems to fit in a lot of ways.

I understand that it is probably impractical for F5 to get a brand new platform just or itself ... but what about if Solstice and Camaro were to be built from a platform, with other variants down the road? Would this be enough to justify developing a totally new platform, if a current one could not be used?

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Seems to make sense.

Really, I give you credit for being the first here to see the possibility of a Solstice-based F5... It seems to fit in a lot of ways.

I understand that it is probably impractical for F5 to get a brand new platform just or itself ... but what about if Solstice and Camaro were to be built from a platform, with other variants down the road? Would this be enough to justify developing a totally new platform, if a current one could not be used?

All GM's RWD cars (except Corvette) are going to share alot of components like suspension & drivetrain.

But the issue is the structure (or skeleton). Though other makers seem to be able to do this without a major problem, GM has become extremely cost conscious when investing the money into a "skeleton" and making sure it passes all frontal, side & read impact standards, as well as a whole host of other mandates. On cars that can be sold in many divisions, it becomes simply a matter of putting a sheet metal or plastic skin over the whole thing, and comming up with different names for different divisions.

That's why a single structure for a Camaro is out of the question, and even with some pretty impressive backing, Solstice is a no go without Opel, Vauxhall, and now Chevrolet also on board. That's why it's also extremely suspicious that the new 2007 GTO had no problem whatsoever being approved, even though the car that will share it's structure (the Holden Monaro) sells only about 5,000 cars per year.

I've been thinking about this for some time, but I figured Solstice was going to be the next Camaro donor, so I didn't give it too much thought. But now that it seems nothing but fours will be in that chassis, Monte Carlo hasn't been taken off the endangered list yet (it's the only coupe in NASCAR, so that's not an issue), and the Monaro/GTO (and no doubt, it's replacement) is the same dimensions except height, and marginally lighter than the Cobra, I'm wondering what the "other" GTO car will be.

So this leads us back to the beginning of this thread. Could it be that the next GTO becomes more pony-car-ish? Lower, wider....

could the new platformed be called F-body? If the GTO goes back to its true roots as a midsized family car transformed into muscle, then I don't want Camaro to share its structure. But it seems the "classic" GTO role will be filled by other products, leaving the new GTO to fill a performance coupe nice.

So the next GTO could in fact be a literal Firebird/Trans Am replacement, with Camaro as the Chevy cousin.

Could they pull a rabbit out of their hats and bring back the "Firebird" and then base the GTO off of it as a separate model, a la Tempest/GTO???

Could this all be too good to be true? Yes..almost certainly.

All the talk about Solstice seems to revolve around "Finding" a suitable platform...

Well, that's kind of a ridiculous statement, because you only have so many to choose from that exist... not like you are hunting for something at flea markets across the country or something here! :p

So... what do you think the odds are that GM could create a whole new platform for Solstice, assuming Camaro and others would share that structure?

I agree that it is extremely unlikely that a whole new structure would be developed solely for Camaro... but if it becomes a shared platform like we are talking about... is it still impossible for a new platform to be made?

Originally posted by Darth Xed
All the talk about Solstice seems to revolve around "Finding" a suitable platform...

Well, that's kind of a ridiculous statement, because you only have so many to choose from that exist... not like you are hunting for something at flea markets across the country or something here! :p


Yea, exactly - it's not like they've got a modern, flexible, cost-competitive RWD platform that's sitting in some dark corner and collecting dust while waiting for someone to stumble across it some day. At some point, ya gotta get off your ass and design the damn thing!

Honestly, now, I feel that we're very close to reaching the point of dimishing returns with regard to chassis development, so it's my opinion that a new platform would become "outdated" at a slower rate than we've seen in the past, if it was built right (someone mentioned that the Miata has carried on since '90 with the same basic platform; Mazda did a good job of building a platform that gets the job done). Note that most of the world-class platforms are now at a point where they're receiving incremental improvements. My point? Design a world-class platform for this application, tool the thing up, build a few exciting cars on it, and sit back for the next 10 years while making minor updates from year to year. It seemed to work for the Vette.

Probably old news here but this is an interesting design variation on the Monaro

http://www.bittercars.com/bitter/bitter.nsf/pages/otherprojects

click on CD2 if it doesn't take you there.

Originally posted by formula79
Holden sells pretty affordable V6 Supercharged Monaro and Commodore. Plus the the cost will come down once the cars are built here.

I agree. Why would the car cost more than say $23k when that platform will be housing at least two other cars on it (GTO and/or Impala / Monte). The R&D will be done on the GTO aside from a new body, drive train is done and probably has been done since the gen IV is out and we still have no reason to chuck the T56. IRS: done.

Although, with no Bengal/Sky there is a lot of room left on Solstice. Granted Im still a Sigma "lite" fan (much like a Miller lite fan ;) ) , but both platforms have very strong points.

Dont forget that a $25,000 in 2006-dollars will be equal to that of a sub- $20,000 car back in 1993/94.

Inflation is a reality in the car industry yet people are still basing pricing on 10 year old cars that have run there course.