How do I beat a 94-98 Mustang GT in my TBI?

I just bought one and I'm wondering how to beat those stangs..my 96 would easily eat them for lunch. I don't want my thrid gen to be a slacker. I also have no knowledge whatsover on third gens so enlighten me. Thanks.

the only way to beat them in your tbi would be take there tires off at the beginning of the race you still might get beat then. sorry just a joke try some nos and a 383 stroker

To run with a 94-98 GT I had to do all this to my 1991 Formula TBI 5-Speed


MSD wires, cap, rotor, ign. module
Flowmaster Cat-Back
Catco Converter
Larger TPI Y-Pipe
H.O. Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner w/K&N
Hypertech Chip


My next upgrades were 3.42's and a posi unit but a drunk totalled it before I got the chance to install them.

Swap in a 350:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What is a '91 Formula doing with a TBI??? They had TPI at that point.

I agree, ditch that 305. Unless you dump some serious cash into it, it'll never run with a Ford 5.0, and still may not. A 350 will do the trick with few mods it'll out run them. A friend of mine in an 89 Formula (TPI) w/a stock 350 and a flowmaster ran a guy in a 91 Z28 (TPI) w/ 305, ported heads and intake, underdrive pulley, chip, aftermarket exhaust system, and higher gears and beat him by a couple of lengths.

:rolleyes: drop in a 350,, why does everyone always have to say that. He wants to know how to make his 305 TBI beat a mustang, not the forged 383 fire breathing monster he could put in :D

Here's a quick run down of what I would do:

New Heads
Go with vette heads (8113), there lighter, you can run higher compression and they will make some nasty power and you can, after a performance rebuild, have a new set of heads ready to bolt on for around $800.00. Try getting new aluminum heads to flow like that out of the box for that kind of money.

cam
Get rid of that peanut cam, QUICK! Comp cams 2030 or 2032 HR

TBI
Bore out the TBI manifold and TBI so that it is equivalent to the 2" TBI

Open Element
K&N open element and filter

miscellaneous
AFPR - Bump the pressure a bit
Headers, Y pipe, and 3" catback
350 injectors - turbocity.com
3.42 posi gears in the rear
Custom chip
TBIchips.com or wherever.

Do all the work yourself? Save thousands get out the door for less than $1,500.00 if you do it ebay. You will more than hang with the GT's

For all that work, to take this out and put that in and damm the cost:eek: You just rebuilt the whole car from the front to the rear. It would be just as easy to install a 350 and get rid of
305 TBI.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Your kidding right? :lol:

Hmmm rip the whole engine out, go buy a whole other engine. Cost factor alone right there is enough to say STOP. Think about all the other things you need like an engine puller, etc... Have someone else do it? Thousands of dollars. All the extra fuel parts you will need to feed the extra 45 cubes. If you build an engine you will have machine and part costs, you buy someone's else engine, you buy someones elses headache, you buy a ready made engine you buy a lot $$$$. Cost to dollar is just not realistic if all you want to do is beat up on a stock 94 GT.

58cc 305 heads will not be good for a 350, unless they are vette heads which can take the other higher compression because they are aluminum. So you will need new heads. Can't get stockers to beat up on a mustang you will need AFR's BIG $$$$ Still going to use the same injectors for that 350 that you did with that 305? I don't think so. Same injection system? Nah, you will probably need TPI or better yet SuperRam, big $$$$

If you want to make over 306hp go get yourself a 350, but build it right. not some autozone special. 310hp in a 350 is easy. I've seen street driven 500hp beasts get 20mpg.

If you need 305hp or less just build the 305. 1:1 ratio is easy in a 305, though it can start getting really hard once you go past that. Heck supercharge it and be in the low 12's. There is a guy I believe in the 11's on a daily driven supercharged 305.

Now if you need to put in some new pistons and do a rebuild.... That is probably a different story.

My knowledge is limited to doing a cam swap on a fourth gen. Anything beyond that (i.e. tranny rebuild or stroker building) is beyond my capabilities right now unless I have a mentor.

I'd like to keep it just bolt-ons because I plan to do an LS1 + 4L60E swap when this motor quits.

I have heard that the TPI cat-backs work for the TBI's too.

I'm planning: Pulleys, Chip, Catback, deleted cat, headers and K&N filter. Hopefully I'll have enough.

What do you guys think? Those GT's are making about 189 RWHP but they are heavy. I have a stripped RS model with just A/C.

Some people don't know much about 3rd gens do they?

TBI was standard in all 1988-1992 Formulas and 1988-1990 IROCS.

Cam swap should be easiero n a thirdgen than a 4th gen just from what I remember.

but the 305 TBI comes stock with 170hp, so wont be too hard. I would still go with a cam swap, and if your not going to go with new heads, at least port and polish your current heads. I can give you all the resources for that if you would like. There are some guys seeing 25hp gains on porting the stock heads. definetly port up the intake manifold and TBI, get some new injectors and a TBI injector pod spacer. You will be beating up on GT's. They'll think you have a 350 :thumb:

The 305 TBI was also in the RS and SC models. It was the base model for many cars. They should of made the lb9 base model but hey live and learn :)

It shouldn't be that hard, 4.6 GT's dyno at around 170 rwhp stock.... So I am guessing some good bolt ons, a good tune, and some sticky tires would have yo rnning with them.... I would also get some better air flow by way of a dual snorkel air cleaner..... Best of luck. It shouldn't be that hard

Will

What is a '91 Formula doing with a TBI??? They had TPI at that point.


Some people don't know much about 3rd gens do they?

I was using what is referred to as sarcasm. I have never understood why people will buy cars new that supposedly are the performance model (ex. Formula, Iroc, Z28) and get a lesser "base" engine. I don't know why they even offered that as an option. If they want to offer an F-body with a base engine sell it as a Camaro LT, Berlinetta, or Firebird not a Z28, Formula, or Iroc with that engine. Thats the way they did it before the 3rd Gen. There were no Z28's or SS's with a 307.

Also a 350 conversion isn't THAT difficult. Come on, an engine hoist is a rental item ~ $20/day, and you can pick up a complete low milage running TPI 350 for around $1000-1500 and it may even have the aluminum heads too. That cuts out having to buy new injectors and everything else that was brought up. The PCM isn't that expensive either.

As for having to pay someone else do it, how much do you think that someone else would charge to change heads and cam out for ya? That isn't cheap either, not to mention it'll require a complete gasket set. If you can do a head and cam change on your own, you can change an engine on your own. Just get a good manual and have at it.

Why does everyone say get rid of the 305 for a 350? Because as shown in my previous post, you can dump a lot of $ in a 305 and still not run as fast as a stock 350. Usually if the Mustang is stock they don't race. They're like the F-body drivers, if you race you mod. I'm in the market for a newer car and I've seen more stock f-bodies than Stangs and more Stangs with more mods. Granted they need more to compete with the LS1. :D

If you're going to do a swap in the future, save your $ to get it done quicker. Why spend $ on a car that will be at best a 15 sec car. It's like my wife's Grand Am GT. Sure I can dump money into it with bolt ons, it'll only be a low 15 second car. I could dump more for a supercharge and it would only be a low 14 second car. If I'm going that route I want something that'll run low 12's at least.

If the 305 is 170 hp that is at the flywheel ( the GAGT mentioned above is rated at 180 hp and 205 lb/ft), the new Stangs are rated at 260hp and 302 lb/ft. That is where the 305 gets spanked is in the lack of torque.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Why does everyone say get rid of the 305 for a 350? Because as shown in my previous post, you can dump a lot of $ in a 305 and still not run as fast as a stock 350. Why spend $ on a car that will be at best a 15 sec car.

If the 305 is 170 hp that is at the flywheel ( the GAGT mentioned above is rated at 180 hp and 205 lb/ft), the new Stangs are rated at 260hp and 302 lb/ft. That is where the 305 gets spanked is in the lack of torque.

At best a 15 sec car? LOL, You have to be kidding me right? With the stock cam, heads, intake manifold, TBI, JUST BOLT-ONS I ran 14.7s @ 93 mph in a full weight (3500+lbs) TBI car. It dynoed 178 rwhp from 3900-4900 rpm and 271 rwtq at 2800 rpm.

With a free L98 cam and $50 intake manifold, the car ran 14.48 @ 96.28 mph with very little tuning (~5-10 chips burned). Hopefully in the next few weeks, I'll go to the dyno and see what it puts down with the L98 cam.

Here's the break down:

TPI 3" cat headers and 3" cat-back. (headers gave me .6 sec and 5 mph in the 1/4)
3.73 gears and posi
K & N filter in stock airbox (Heat stove/valve removed)
Timing at 7*
180* T-stat

This gave me high 14s and the above dyno numbers

Also have now 1.6RR, springs/retainers, L98 cam, edelbrock preformer intake manifold, and custom burned chip by myself. Car ran mid 14's last time at the track.

Mid 14s is faster than a lot of stock 350 TPIs and faster than most close to stock SN95 mustangs 94-98 GTs (The TBI car for FORD)

Dyno graphs (http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181708)

Mods vs. 1/4 timeslips and price break down (http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174691)

Greed4speed

I have to raise the flag here buddy. :bs:

At best 15 second car? Man that is funny. Go talk to willie over at thirdgen.org and ask him about his 15 second car, or talk to njspeeder about the TBI.

Might also want to ask the l98 guys why those extra 45 cubes, better cam, and heads only made what 15more hp than the lb9 and only 35ft lbs of torque?

Like I said before 1:1 ratio on a 305 isnt that bad. Go much past that and I would start thinking 350, but only at that point.

James

Originally posted by Beast5spdGTA
Dyno graphs (http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181708)

Mods vs. 1/4 timeslips and price break down (http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174691)

How did you adjust the timing to 7*?

Originally posted by 96cam4ro
How did you adjust the timing to 7*?

Remove the brown/tan wire (single wire connection by the heater box) while the engine is running, so there is no spark advance. Then just use a timing light and turn the distributor.

Now I just add the timing in the computer chip, if you put a cam in, you will need custom chip tuning to get it to run well. All the stuff to burn chips for these cars cost ~ $215 or less.

There is alot of people repling to this topic that really need some help.

The TBI system isn't the resriction on a LO3 car, it's the cam and heads. TBI spacers and pod risers are wastes of money.

The thirdgen board has alot of TBI info but, due to the large number of " BS " members alot of good things for the TBI cars get shot down.

First off if that is aimed at me, read my post again and you will see that I mentioned the pod raiser along with a mixture of other parts. One of those being heads. If the spacers didnt help you would see guys putting a 2" raiser underneath their carbs. However, underneath a stock hood the best your going to get is 1/4" to 1/2" pod raiser in there. Anything more and your through the hood.

Nope not aimed at you. Just wanted to make it clear that it is a waste of time to say your TBI is fast on thirdgen.org.

Exhaust, cam, and gears. You already have the cam... Seeing you've got the HotCam in your LT1, you can take the stock LT1 cam and put it in the 305. You've got the experience.

Headers, a high flow or no cat, and a 3" exhaust with 3.42 gears would give you enough to take out pretty much any stock 94-98, and probably some of the mildly modded ones too.

Ok first of all, the 305 isnt his major problem. The problem is in the TBI. My 305 TPI has beat numerous 5.0's, EVERY 94-98 Stang I have ever raced, and 2 LT1's including a 92 Vette. I know, under no circumstances should I have beat 2 LT1's, but the thing is is that I did. Call b/s if you want, but I promise you I did. And I have people that were there to witness it. Anyway, an engine swap is at the least $2500, and that's a pretty basic 350. I dont know jack about TBI, but if I was in your position, I would buy a stealth ram.

Stealth Ram = God's gift to us 3rd genners.:metal:

Originally posted by Rage
I dont know jack

Well said :)

The SR is a good upgrade IF you already have a TPI to build upon. Otherwise, you will have to buy the entire system. That's $2500!

Originally posted by CODY BEHNKE
Some people don't know much about 3rd gens do they?

TBI was standard in all 1988-1992 Formulas and 1988-1990 IROCS.

could someone explain my 1990 tpi iroc then?

Originally posted by doug791
could someone explain my 1990 tpi iroc then?

The 305 TBI was the base engine, most IROCs, Z28s, Trans Ams, GTAs(not sure about GTAs), etc have TPI systems, but they could've came with a TBI.

ah i get what he ment by standard. makes sense

Originally posted by Beast5spdGTA
The 305 TBI was the base engine, most IROCs, Z28s, Trans Ams, GTAs(not sure about GTAs), etc have TPI systems, but they could've came with a TBI.

GTAs came stock with the l-98 the l-b9 was available but as a credit option meaning it lowered the price of the car.

jstcrzyengh


Raise the BS flag all you want. Look at the slips Beast put down. Great documentation btw Beast. Ya, he got in the 14's, but for over $2000, and that was with 3.73's. Add another $400 for the gears and installation. A STOCK 350 can run that time or better. No offense, but the 305 just can't compete. Ya, they can run faster, but how much more money will it cost? My Bro-in-laws basically STOCK '86 5.0 Stang GT ran 14.03 with 2.73 gears. It did have flows as the only mod, but mufflers don't make that big of difference. Compare that to a friends '92 RS w/ the 305 TPI that ran in the 16's w/ a chip and a muffler.

I dont know squat about third gens.:D How bout a shot of juice?Or wont the 305 take it?

There's definately an art to making a SLOW car FAST. It's a shame how most people here don't understand that. Heck, there are 8 second Civics right now and they have a 1.6L engine (Check out Lisa Kubo's Nitto Civic).

The owner of TriZone motorsports could get his puny little 1.6L engine into the 13's and most of you guys are saying that I can't get a 5.0L V8 into the 12's??

It wouldn't be fair if I smoked the guys high 13 second Civic in my 96 because it has triple the displacement which makes adding power so much easier. The HOTCAM kit, headers and tuning alone gave me 50 RWHP.

No disrespect or anything - I just wanted to vent.

Hey 96cam4ro,

that honestly has been my argument time and time again. People honestly just get something stuck in their head that "oh, it's a 305 not a 350, better get yourself a 350" though that person has never actually tried putting any money or time into a 305.

greed4speed
Look at my post before about comparing the lb9 and the l98. What it sounds like you are saying is that 15hp and 35ft lbs of torque take a car from being a 16 second car (in your opinion) to a low 14 second car? Wow! Well, maybe I can stroke it than, and using your numbers, I should be in what? the 10's?
Do you even own a thirdgen or are they all your "friends" cars?

My buddy has a flowmaster catback and an open element on his 92 RS and with bad valve seals still smokes them up anytime he needs too. Were dropping some vette heads on that puppy and some nice headers. Once again by your numbers we should shoot down from a 16 second car to at least a 12 second car. :no:

Got to raise it again :bs:

Raise it all you want. I know what I've seen at tracks. I also read the timeslips posted by Beast.

Ya, you can make a slow car fast. It isn't an art its called a large budget. I've seen some fast Hondas, but they had as much $ in their turbo set up as I do in my car, and thats not even looking at the $ they have in their drivetrain. By the end there isn't much Honda in that engine. I never said you couldn't make the 305 run fast. Just that it'll cost you more and you still won't out perform a 350 with far less cash invested in it.

When I can see several people running modded 305s dumping over $1500 into a car that can't even beat a stock 350, why would I want to try it? I'd rather dump $1500 into a 350 and run faster. A 350 TPI can run high 13's virtually stock. Can your 305? Don't tell me 305's aren't week. GM engineers put the 5 speed behind them because they weren't strong anough to tear it up but the 350 was. That should tell you something.

It isn't my opinion, the timeslips were posted in this thread. Look at them. 16 sec w/ chip and 3.73's then another $2000 to run 14's. A stock 350 can run that.

I've been building cars and drag racing for 16 years and even wrenched for some dirt track cars. I'm not some idiot that doesn't know engines. I've known guys that have tried to get 305's to run with the 350 even by stroking them. After they dump all that time and $ into the car they all came to the conclusion that it isn't worth it.

I'll even raise the BS flag. :bs: Post some numbers. Lets see some timeslips or a dyno sheet to back up your claims. My proof? Look at what Beast posted. That should be proof enough.
It's very convenient the way you have never referred to his data. I guess its easier to ignore it when it doesn't support your point of view.

Oh, and being able to smoke tires has no bearing on how fast your car is. If anything you'll run a slower ET. He needs to set up his suspension better. I've seen family sedans that could burn tires like mad and yet run 17's. I always laugh at the dorks that think their car is fast because they can spin tires. If you were a serious racer you would too. Then again if you were serious you'd have a 350!

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
jstcrzyengh


Raise the BS flag all you want. Look at the slips Beast put down. Great documentation btw Beast. Ya, he got in the 14's, but for over $2000, and that was with 3.73's. Add another $400 for the gears and installation. A STOCK 350 can run that time or better. No offense, but the 305 just can't compete. Ya, they can run faster, but how much more money will it cost? My Bro-in-laws basically STOCK '86 5.0 Stang GT ran 14.03 with 2.73 gears. It did have flows as the only mod, but mufflers don't make that big of difference. Compare that to a friends '92 RS w/ the 305 TPI that ran in the 16's w/ a chip and a muffler.

first off , the rs was never offered with tpi unless it was a b4c car (rare), which was a police package rs with a 350 tuned port injection motor (l98)

the rs was either a v6 or a 305 TBI . worlds of differece from a tpi motor .

second of all . the 305 may be more expensive to mod . however , if your not looking to get into the 10's they are able to do the job .

there are literally TONS of street driven 305's right in the 13 second range for uner 2 g's .

hell , i had my lowly lg4 in my z28 running 14.6's at a hair over 97mph for a grand total of about 850 bucks , that was on a 2.73 peg leg rear .

the 305 tpi backed by a t-5 (depending on the year) will run anywhere from a mid 14 to a very low 15 . with a decent driver

im not saying its a great motor , but just like any other motor , if you pick and match parts the right way , it can be a very good performer on a tight budget .

think 305's are **** , look what happens when you boost them :bow: look at the very first car on the page :)

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/friends.htm

first off , the rs was never offered with tpi unless it was a b4c car (rare), which was a police package rs with a 350 tuned port injection motor (l98)

Thats funny, I know 2 people w/ a RS w/ 305 TPI.

think 305's are **** , look what happens when you boost them

But look at how much more you get from boosting a 350 or Ford's 5.0.

I agree, if you pick and match the parts you can run decent. But you'll never compete w/a 350 w/ the same mods. OK, so for $850 you can run 14.7....that still isn't fast enough to beat a stock Mustang. At least not one w/ a 5 spd and good driver.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Raise it all you want. I know what I've seen at tracks. I also read the timeslips posted by Beast....

I never said you couldn't make the 305 run fast. Just that it'll cost you more and you still won't out perform a 350 with far less cash invested in it....

When I can see several people running modded 305s dumping over $1500 into a car that can't even beat a stock 350, why would I want to try it?...

It isn't my opinion, the timeslips were posted in this thread. Look at them. 16 sec w/ chip and 3.73's then another $2000 to run 14's. A stock 350 can run that.


I think you mis-quoted my prices for parts in that last post. You make it look like I actually spent $2000 to go from 15.9s @ 86 mph to 14.4s @ 96 mph, when I really only spent ~$250.
$2000 was the new part cost of everything I put on my car.

If you don't include a cat-back ~$250 b/c everyone already has a cat-back exhaust.

It should cost ~$1500 to take a stock 305 TBI to run mid-low 14s buying the parts new except for the camshaft.

To get a used 350 TPI into a TBI car costs ~$1800-2200 if it has to be shipped. Lets not get started on buying a 1 piece roller 350 new/rebuilt long block costs $1700 by itself shipped (see sig)

used 350 TPI $1250 assuming this has wiring harness and ALL sensors and ECM
fuel pump $110
Dual fans used $~75
shipping $250-300
headers and cat $430 (needs exhaust)

The 350 TPI swap (w/ headers) gives you high 13s to mid 14s for minimum $1800. The stock 305 TBI modded with $1500 gives you low to mid 14s w/o swapping the engine.

It basically comes down to how fast you want to go. ~275 hp or less, keeping the 305 will be easier and probably cheaper. Trying to make more than 300 hp NA will be a lot easier with a 350 and still give you a platform to build on, while a 305 NA making 300+ hp is basically going to cost a lot more than a bigger engine. Stock 305 heads and stock L98, LT1 cam will easily support 250+ hp and 300+ ft-lbs of torque in a 305 ci engine.

In summary, if you want to eventually run mid 13s or faster NA, start with a 350 and then build up. If you are happy with high 13s to mid 14s for you car then stick with the stock 305 NA b/c it can be done with cheap stock iron 305 (TPI) heads and stock 350 (L98, LT1) cam, which will be easier and more cost efficient than swapping in a 350.

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
Thats funny, I know 2 people w/ a RS w/ 305 TPI.



But look at how much more you get from boosting a 350 or Ford's 5.0.

I agree, if you pick and match the parts you can run decent. But you'll never compete w/a 350 w/ the same mods. OK, so for $850 you can run 14.7....that still isn't fast enough to beat a stock Mustang. At least not one w/ a 5 spd and good driver.

no the rs didnt come with a tuned port injection motor EVER . Here is proof from the most reputable third generation camaro site around : thirdgen.org

http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

and there are STOCK 305's that can beat stock mustangs . so saying that no 305 can beat a stock mustang is a pretty retarded comment .

hp ratings on a 305 are anywhere from 155 to 230 and from 250 ft lbs to 300 ft lbs .

i started with 170 , so i think that going 14.6 is pretty damn good for my motor .

im not gonna argue though , the tech sheet speaks for itself

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
But look at how much more you get from boosting a 350 or Ford's 5.0.


how much more can you get ? the dude is running 9's on a daily , thats pretty damn good if you ask me ....no ?

thats not even a completly wild setup .

its its a no brainer that more cubes= more power .

1992 RS 305 TPI :lol:

Man might want to tell my roommate that considering his is a full heritage edition and came with the 305 TBI.

gunny and beast know what's up. Like I said 1:1 ratio (cubic inch to horsepower) the 305 is fine N/A, but that can almost be said for any size engine. You dont want to take a 350 much past 1:1 without losing major fuel economy, which the point should be to beat the mustang while still getting better gas mileage. It's called rubbing it in their face. Once you start pushing 400 hp, I here most people start talking about 383's and 400's. I mean if you really want to push an engine swap do it right and push a ramjet 502, Why spend the money on a 350 only to get beat by ls1's or Mustang cobra's. If your going to do it do it right :D

wow its funny because none of you really get it. The guy who started this post is just someone who has a 305 tbi and is tired of getting out run by ****ty ass stangs. GUESS WHAT this guy probably doesnt want to run in the 11's he just wants his car to keep up. The only reason that it would ever make sense to buy a 305 is because you are concerned with your gas mileage. The extra .7L is going to use up a fair bit of gas.

If you did plan on getting your cars into the 11's if you buy a 305 your an idiot unless you had already planned on doing an engine swap. There are plenty of cars out there with 350s that are in the same condition and at the same price as many 305s. So basically telling a person to swap their engine doesnt make any sense. If a bigger engine was all this guy wanted he would have either already changed his engine or just bought one with a 350.
ALL THIS PERSON WANTS IS TO MAKE THE FUEL EFFICIENT CAR HE HAS A LITTLE QUICKER

and why the hell would you argue to drop a 350 into a 305 car?!?!?!? If you had half a brain youd realize that if he wanted to drop a bigger engine in why the hell would you drop a 350 in? cost wise it doesnt make much sense unless you are offered one cheap. If you were interested in getting a bigger engine why not get a 454 thatd smoke a pos 350 any day of the week.

The basic fact being that no one can argue that a bigger engine wont go faster because it doesnt make any sense and if i have to start explaining power to weight ratios to people ill snap. THIS PERSON DOESNT WANT A BIGGER ENGINE HE WANTS HIS EXISTING ENGINE TO BE A LITTLE QUICKER AND I BET HE REALLY DOESNT WANT TO SPEND OVER A 1000 BUCKS. PERSONALLY I SEE THE FUN IN MAKING YOUR CAR AS FAST AS CAN BE BUT THATS NOT WHY EVERYONE OWNS A CAR.

any questions class?

Shouldn't we all know by now what engines came in what cars? And the whole 5-speed behind the 305 talk is crap. GM simply wanted to entertain the market of people who wanted to shift for there car. It has nothing to do with the weak power rating!

And it should also be common knowledge that the late 90's 305 TPI 5-speed combo could easily keep up with the 350 TPI.

get a 4th gen Z... STICK w/ the LTI!
you'll be good to go

i see 'em around for like 6-7 grand in pretty good shape with under like 80K

Originally posted by doug791
wow its funny because none of you really get it. The guy who started this post is just someone who has a 305 tbi and is tired of getting out run by ****ty ass stangs. GUESS WHAT this guy probably doesnt want to run in the 11's he just wants his car to keep up. The only reason that it would ever make sense to buy a 305 is because you are concerned with your gas mileage. The extra .7L is going to use up a fair bit of gas.

If you did plan on getting your cars into the 11's if you buy a 305 your an idiot unless you had already planned on doing an engine swap. There are plenty of cars out there with 350s that are in the same condition and at the same price as many 305s. So basically telling a person to swap their engine doesnt make any sense. If a bigger engine was all this guy wanted he would have either already changed his engine or just bought one with a 350.
ALL THIS PERSON WANTS IS TO MAKE THE FUEL EFFICIENT CAR HE HAS A LITTLE QUICKER

and why the hell would you argue to drop a 350 into a 305 car?!?!?!? If you had half a brain youd realize that if he wanted to drop a bigger engine in why the hell would you drop a 350 in? cost wise it doesnt make much sense unless you are offered one cheap. If you were interested in getting a bigger engine why not get a 454 thatd smoke a pos 350 any day of the week.

The basic fact being that no one can argue that a bigger engine wont go faster because it doesnt make any sense and if i have to start explaining power to weight ratios to people ill snap. THIS PERSON DOESNT WANT A BIGGER ENGINE HE WANTS HIS EXISTING ENGINE TO BE A LITTLE QUICKER AND I BET HE REALLY DOESNT WANT TO SPEND OVER A 1000 BUCKS. PERSONALLY I SEE THE FUN IN MAKING YOUR CAR AS FAST AS CAN BE BUT THATS NOT WHY EVERYONE OWNS A CAR.

any questions class?

FINALLY SOMEONE GET'S IT!!!! Hooray!!!!

I just want it to run mid 14's. That's good enough for me (I'll beat almost any Honda and those '96-98 SOHC GT's too since they only run 15 flat). The 96 is my PRIMARY BEAST - you can tell by the RWHP.

I plan to do an LS1 swap when this motor quits. For now, I'll run what I brought.

I really just want to keep it bolt-ons for now. What would you guys recommend?

My target is 190-200 RWHP. My stock LT1 made 235 (Auto) - I know it's a better engine.

I'm also interested in the TPI heads and LT1 cam. I've got my stock LT1 cam. Where and how much do I get the 305 TPI heads? Do they just bolt on? I was contemplating doing a head swap if I blew a head gasket or something.

Thanks.

It's what I have been saying all along.

Though don't go with 305 TPI heads go with 8113 casting vette heads. Same compression ratio, but aluminum and with a lot more flow. MAY cost you $100.00 more than stock 305 TPI heads. They will allow better flow and power. As for cams, you can get an LT1 cam, I have one for sale by the way :D (shameless plug)

But you would probably be better getting something a little hotter. Maybe an lt4 cam (not the hot cam) or with a compucam 2032HR. with that and a ported up TPI system, and some headers and free flowing exhaust you will be moving just fine.

James

Avoiding all the stupid bickering...

You wanna beat them quick and easy? Spray 125 shot on it. With no other mods I'd guarentee 14's given traction. Its not the most pretty way to do it, but it'll work dead on.

The hard way? Vortec heads, LT1 cam, Performer RPM manifold, and a good chip. Hell, if you build this setup I'd give you my bin for a chip. Its not optimal by a far shot, but it'll give you real good streetability. You'll probably need a fuel pump, as I recently found out.

pm me if you want straid up info without arguing over who's ***** is longer.

Just because something didn't come with TPI doesn't mean it can't have TPI. With that mentality all the 3rd gens w/ cowl induction doesn't exist either no to mention all the strokers.


The point is, mid 14's is not adequate. The 4.6 isn't the slug everyone is making them out to be. Ya, you'll be able to beat a bone stock 4.6 auto, but you'll still have problems beating a stock 4.6 5spd unless the driver sucks. Like I said before, how many totally stock Mustangs are going to be racing? With just a minor and extremely common mod such as an exhaust, they'll leave you behind at mid 14's. They don't have a huge aftermarket because no one mods their Mustang and all they'll run is mid 14's.

As for ricers. Most of them are anywhere from 17 to 15 sec cars. Running mid 14's you'll still get beat by the factory turbo cars and a lot of the naturally aspirated 6 cyl cars are still going to give you a run for your money. Ya, you will be able to beat the ricer boys that just got finished watching "the fast and the furious" and think their high 16 sec Civic will run 10's w/ a 50 shot of nawwws.

:bs:

Stock mustang with a catback you think will go that much faster? Boy you must of been beat by a lot of mustangs to be backing them so much, or you yourself drive one. Just because YOU get beat by a 4.6 auto in your 350, doesn't mean that a 305 cant beat the 4.6 ;)

I have a best of 14.9 w/ my 305 TPI motor. It has exhaust and filters but other than that it's stock. It has some problems too. it smokes on start up, my timing chain is loose, among some other small probs. w/ 100,000 miles. Now, if you want to run 14's for under $1,000 you could probably go with the TPI setup and some headers, and that should get it I would think.

But if you'd like to stay with the TBI, I'd go with headers, exhaust, gears, pulley's, LT1 cam, MSD, and a 75 shot of juice. I would think that would get it....I dont know.

I agree stay away from pulleys unless you want a track only car and in that instance rip everything out but the alternator.

Originally posted by Gunny Highway
What alot of people don't realize is that the TBI unit is not the problem on the RS'. It's crap cam, heads and exhaust. I even think I saw an article somewhere in a car magazine that listed the top 10 worst heads produced by Chevy, and ours was on there. They suck big time.

couldnt have said it better myself man. all you TBI bashers: what is it exactly that you think is so terribly bad about TBI? Now, I am a fan of the 305 (i have one:) ) but in all honesty, if you put, say, $500 in a 305 and $500 in a 350, the 350 will win. but i understand that 96cam4ro already has a 305 so... anyway heads cam and exhaust should dip you in the 14's. good luck bro

Stock mustang with a catback you think will go that much faster? Boy you must of been beat by a lot of mustangs to be backing them so much, or you yourself drive one. Just because YOU get beat by a 4.6 auto in your 350, doesn't mean that a 305 cant beat the 4.6

I just know they run faster than a mid 14 w/ very few mods. As for me getting beat by them, when you run a 12.90 on an engine you built w/ a long block that cost only $800 to rebuild let me know. ;)

LOL To beat a mustang is as easy as putting your foot on the gas. No really this is a good thread for me cause I spend more time whopping mustangs more than any other car on the streets. I have a 305 in my 86 Z-28 and it's always that 3rd gear bull that messes up the stangs (no more power!). To get your TBI to wake up seems to be the problem, First off get a "full" tune up (including trans fluid change/ and check rear end fluid). Second next time you race look at your Tach carefully (but dont wreck ok?) If it's not moving at the same rate to the pressure your applying to the pedal, something wrong. But to make things simple:

3/4 cam (duration ?), exhaust, check vacuum lines etc..

I see no reason that a freshly tuned up tbi cant beat a silly lil mustang v6 or GT (not the Saleen or Cobra). Unless it's the driver hmmmmm? Take it rom me I raced my 86 Z-28 from 97 to 01 (coming back out next month) and only lost to one stang. And did'nt lose that one until he hit the bottle. Even in my 2000 Camaro V6, GT stangs simply cannot hang. From the streetlight or the highway. Oh and I race at least 5-7 times a week and guaranteed at least two of em will be mustangs. I just raced a TA and V6 stang Friday. Needless to say after 100mph it was just between the TA and me. Get your car running factory specs (not even modded) and you'll see why Camaros will always demolish rustangs. Check my racing page out and you'll see what I mean

http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/stangkilla1 (go to page 2, and start reading!!!)

greedforspeed

I am right at about $800.00 for my buildup, minus the superram. But you also did a rebuilt already probably having most of the parts. I expect to be in the mid to low 12's for about $1,500.00 total, but that is waiting for deals to come buy over months and months of time. Nickel and diming all over the place.

Going from a 305 TBI to a 355 Super ram with the lt4hotcam and some vette heads. Also going completely forged bottom end and hitting it with about 10lbs of boost from a D1SC procharger. I am only changing over, because I am doing a complete buildup, interior and all.

James

Man, I wish I had seen this thread sooner. . . I took a TBI car from low 16's down to high 12's, 1/2 second at a time.

Here's what it takes to run what:

16.20: Mostly stock except for 180 thermostat and K&N

15.70: Add 3" SLP cat-back, gutted converter, pulley, minor mod's

15.40: Add 2500 converter, 3.42 gear, and Edelbrock headers

14.40 @ 98: Add TFS twisted wedge heads, ZZ3 cam (208/221), and Performer TBI intake

13.30 @ 106: Add 350 short block (same cam/heads) and Holley 670 TBI

12.80 @ 112: Add B&M blower at 5 psi and BOOM!!! broken ring lands due to lack of fuel. This, I determined, was the limit of the TBI.

All this was with the stock computer/chip. I ran all the way down to 13.30 with the stock fuel pump also.

Don't waste your time or money on TPI - it doesn't flow as good as a ported TBI intake.

All runs were on 245/50-15 BFG Euro T/A's.

Mike

Also. . .

I firmly believe there were many problems with my 13.30 at 106 set up.

The compression should have been 10.5 rather than 9.3. The cam could've been better. A Vigilante converter and drag radials would probably have been alot better than the Dacco converter and Euro T/A's. Also, the Edelbrock headers are JUNK - 4 of the tubes are only 1 1/2". The AS&M's are 1 3/4" - all tubes. A custom chip/program/dyno time/wideband time would've helped alot also.

Hindsight is 20-20, I guess. I was young when I built it and have learned alot since then.

I estimate it could have run around 12.20 at 111 mph with better chosen and matched parts.

Not bad for the ole' junk TBI, huh?

Mike