3rd gen HP ability?

I now have a 4th gen Trans Am and was thinking of selling her in favor of a 3rd gen. Money thing is the main factor (just had a baby and buying a house). I know that making a 3rd gen will take some money, don't get me wrong here. What are the main restrictions on the TPI cars? Here are a few I know about.
1)intake setup (modded LT1, miniram)
2)heads (are these 23 deg. heads?)
3)cam (I like a XE 230/236 for a LT1, will this work in a 3rd gen?)

Any input is appreciated.

TIA,
Chris

none of that will work unless you put the whole engine in the camaro. restrictions? Gen I motors are the most tunable. That's what the ZZ4 is... You can get a tranmission rebuild kit that'll make it alot stronger for a reliable car. Don't count on the A/C or heater working though. like 3/4 of the ones out there just aren't kept up. Don't worry, it can be fixed, but is it in your budget? The Gen I motors do run alittle hotter because they don't have the reverse flow cooling from what I hear. They are fun though, get used to setting the timing manually though, lol. You don't have to all the time, but you will from time to time.

I had an Iroc before and had cooling problems on occasion, so I know what that is like. I love my 4th gen and the tunability of it. This would not be my everyday car, just something to sit in the garage and play with (of course it would be used for the track also). If I do it I plan on a tranny rebuild and high stall, like I said streetablility is not a huge factor. What is wrong with the stock 350 shortblocks (L98)?

Thanks

nothing really, why not just put an LT1 in it? some of these people here will guide you through it. Your camaro probably had the same block (if it was a 93-97). They cost like 1000-2000 used and from there you can basically get the parts reconditioned to make them like new/better than new and you could have a new engine that was in your newer camaro for almost a tenth the price. Oh yea, you are going to probably want a 4L60E tranny or a manual for it too..

You better figure out your project scope first, before jumping in.

You can spend $1600 on the powertrain and make it a nice little 13-second performer, or you can go all out and spend $12K on the powertrain and suspension so that you can go mid-11's and turn over one g on the skidpad.

If you want a fuel injected Extreme street screamer, I'd suggest you stick with what you got and start from there. That is, if you can like the looks of your Trans Am.

However, If you are like me, and you prefer the looks of a clean third-gen over the looks of a fourth-gen, I'd say go buy the one of your dreams, making sure to avoid rust and nasty interior at all costs. Then, figure out what you want to do. If you want to stick to the stock shortblock, and avoid nitrous, you can build some nice engine packages with a tuneable #730 ECM in place, and a nice little Miniram setup with Hooker headers and a Spohn rear suspension... You'll probably get into the high 12's with a setup like that for about $4500 in mods.

--drb

Since you say that streetability is not a factor I will assume that you have a reliable everyday people hauler that you can use when the third gen is broken. If this is the case, I would start with a descent 3000-4000 dollar iroc or T/A with a 350. Then pull the engine and assuming it is a strong clean engine, swap in some cheap TRW forged pistons, and ARP main and rod studs, then add whatever heads you can get the best deal on hopefully used like trick flow, darts, or brodixs' for under 800 bucks.
Then select a very mild just off factory roller cam, stealth ram intake, and a 250 shot of nitrous.
You will end up with a ten second car that will progressively destroy everything behind it, but I would wager money that the actual engine will hold up for a very long time.
This set up is what I have planned for the 88 camaro after my 87 is done, and it is going to be some kind of crazy fast, for super cheap.
The moral of this plan is that with good rod bolts, I would not be scared to push the stock L98 rotating asssembly over 400 horse N/A and over 600 with nitrous.
Just my thoughts, I would certainly not offer any warranty's to back this up, but I will try it. :D

Try thirdgen.org. There are a couple of very low 11 sec third gen cars there-no power adders-one of which is a daily driver.

Chris

I really think that you will be better off just holding onto your '94. It is already nine years old, and has probably depreciated to nearly it's cheapest value. By the time you get done working up your third-gen, you will have spent all of the money that you have in your fourth-gen.

If I were you, I'd buy a set of MAC headers and a Dynomax cat-back (used of CZ28.COM), a cold-air induction, a 52mm throttle body (used), a set of rear control arms, and LT1EDIT software for your computer.

Together these things should get your motor into the low 13's and may be the high 12's.

Most of that stuff is available on CZ28.com classifieds on a weekly basis for half-cost. You are talking less than $1K in mods there, at used car prices.

That is, unless you are set on the third-gen styling.

Originally posted by ws6transam
Chris

I really think that you will be better off just holding onto your '94. It is already nine years old, and has probably depreciated to nearly it's cheapest value. By the time you get done working up your third-gen, you will have spent all of the money that you have in your fourth-gen.

If I were you, I'd buy a set of MAC headers and a Dynomax cat-back (used of CZ28.COM), a cold-air induction, a 52mm throttle body (used), a set of rear control arms, and LT1EDIT software for your computer.

Together these things should get your motor into the low 13's and may be the high 12's.

Most of that stuff is available on CZ28.com classifieds on a weekly basis for half-cost. You are talking less than $1K in mods there, at used car prices.

That is, unless you are set on the third-gen styling.
I know what everyone is saying about keeping the 4th gen, but here is the situation. I am 29 years old, married and have a newborn daughter. We have 3 cars and we are going to buy a house soon. The 94 I have still has a couple payments on it. I am basically trying to lower the debt to income ratio and it is hard to justify to myself to pay on something that I don't even drive. I have put 13K miles in 3 years and that was mostly in the first year of ownership. I already have headers, CAI (in total over 2K in mods).
Basically, I was wanting to hear from others that own 3rd gen cars and of their mods. I will keep the car for sure if I can't get the money I want out of her. Which right now is undecided. Besides I always wanted a 96-97 original WS6 anyway.

Thanks for the replies,
Chris

Originally posted by 1QUIKTA
I know what everyone is saying about keeping the 4th gen, but here is the situation. I am 29 years old, married and have a newborn daughter. We have 3 cars and we are going to buy a house soon. The 94 I have still has a couple payments on it. I am basically trying to lower the debt to income ratio and it is hard to justify to myself to pay on something that I don't even drive. I have put 13K miles in 3 years and that was mostly in the first year of ownership. I already have headers, CAI (in total over 2K in mods).
Basically, I was wanting to hear from others that own 3rd gen cars and of their mods. I will keep the car for sure if I can't get the money I want out of her. Which right now is undecided. Besides I always wanted a 96-97 original WS6 anyway.

Thanks for the replies,
Chris

I guess, in that case, just sell the car, buy the house, and wait for a more opportune time to buy a nother F-body.

I hear what you are saying, and I've been there. However, in my case, I decided to hold onto my F-body. I've managed to do so, even through college tuition payments, three house purchases, and the birth of three kids. I *almost* had to sell when I ended up designing my own custom garage, and the costs balooned to nearly $35K. However, its still here, after all these years.

If you really need to sell it, maybe you should first establish some ground rules on the resulting cash: It should be reserved as "seed money" to be spent ONLY on a replacement future sports car. If you can get your wife to agree, then you can begin your planning: You can either spend it on a third-gen, or you can simply hold onto the cash until a deal pops up, which it will. I once saw a '93 Indy 500 pace car Camaro sell on this board for $3900. I was just six days too late in seeing the post or it would be mine.

Oh, and here are some of my mods: They total well above the possible resale value of the car, I'm sure.

1LE brake upgrade, front & rear
Heavy Duty Torsen differential & moser racing axles & 3.73 gearing
Ported & polished 305 heads,
cammed L69 shortblock
headers & cat-back exhaust,
complete Steve Spohn race suspension,
Speed-sensitive power steering upgrade,
Kenny brown subframe connectors,
S&W Race cars 8-point roll bar,
Teamtech 5-point race harnesses,
Griffen heavy duty racing radiator
Oil coolers on engine and power steering
A/C delete
ROH 17 x 9.5 inch wheels with 275-series tires
T56 6-speed transmission conversion
Koni struts & Herb Adams rear shocks
Moog front suspension overhaul
Ignition upgrades, lots of carb tuning,
& some more stuff that I've forgotten over the last 13 years.
------------------------------
Stuff laying around waiting to be installed:
480 Horsepower Minirammed, serpentine belted, 385 CID engine with lots of Comp Cams parts and heads by Airflow Research, competition ported by me.

Aluminum bumper supports, Lexan T-tops, and other chassis lightening tricks.
------------------------------

What kind of performance are you looking for?? Stock for stock L98's and LT1's are pretty close and the handling of the Thirds is sharper. (And the looks are better!!) IMO spend about $6-$7,000 on a good lower mile 87-90 350 TPI IROC-Z or 91-92 Z28. It should have no problems if taken care of, they are excellent cars. IMO its worth it to spend the money to get a good 1, I've seen the difference with people that bought nice 1's and "good enough" 1's. Then get modding, you do not need to change an engine or an intake I don't know where those comments came from.

in all honesty if your gonna get a 3rd gen your gonna pay out of your ass either aspect either A your gonna find a nice very low mile car for 7 grand and have no prblems or your gonna pick up somebody elses can of worms but when working correctly 3rd gens are much fun

I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN ABOUT THE DEPT.YOU WANT TO SELL THE CAR THAT HAS PAYMENTS AND PURCHASE ALOT CHEAPER 3RD GEN WHICH IS NOT THE WORST IDEA IN THE WORLD BUT HERE LIES THE PROBLEM,THAT 3RD GEN WILL COST YOU JUST AS MUCH AS THE 4TH GEN.I BOUGHT A 91 Z28 RUNNING AND DRIVING FOR $3500.00,I NOW HAVE $6000.00 IN IT AND THE ONLY ITEM I BOUGHT THAT I WANTED TO WAS A $400.00 DOLLAR RADIO.EVERY THING ELSE IS REPAIR BILLS.BY THE WAY MY REAR HATCH STILL DOESNT WORK AND THE AC CUTS OFF AT TIMES AND THE ENGINE DOESNT PERFORM AS IT SHOULD.LONG STORY SHORT PICK THE CAR YOU WANT AND POUR MONEY IN IT AS YOU CAN.MY ADVISE IS SELL YOURS BUY YOUR HOUSE AND SAVE UP WHEN AND IF YOU CAN.:cool:

holy crap I'm blind!!!@!~@!$#$~! ow my eyes!!

I Put sunglasses at the end!!

I've owned 2 4th gens, both 96's and they were nice and all, but I love the stlying of my 86 Trans Am. But there are also things of the 4th gens that I liked, the dash and drivetrain for instance.
If you look at my sig, my car is basically a 4th gen in a 3rd gen body. :)

13.88@97mph with stock heads, stock intake, stock runners, stock exhaust manifolds, cheap paper air filters, street tread... the TPI cars induction isnt as bad as everyone thinks, went 12.88 with a 100 shot of n2o, still working out some problems with the 150 and 175 n2o pills and planning on installing my headers tomorrow - I have 392ft lbs of rear wheel torque and 518 torque with nitrous, n around 225 rwhp n/a and 303hp on n2o. TPI's are torque monsters, if you wanna do some ECM programming, put in a nice cam, high stall and a Holley Stealth ram, you'd see low 12's naturally aspirated without a problem, those HSR's will pull to 6200rpm easy.

Engine:
- Factory 350 roller block bored .030 over (355c.i.)
- Flat Top (aprox 10:1) Pistons
- Moly Piston Rings
- Remanufactured Stock Rods
- 10/10 Crank
- Stock Camshaft
- 1.6 Roller Rockers
- 15,000 miles since valve job

Bolt On's:
- Crane Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
- Throttle Body Airfoil (Hypertech?)
- Home made Ram Air using A/C Duct
- March Performance Under drive Pulleys (Crank & Alternator)
- Removed All Emissions Equipment

Transmission & Rear End:
- Dacco Detroit 2300-2500 Stall Torque Converter (footbrake's 2400)
- Rebuilt 700R4 with Superior Shift Kit
- 3.23 Rear Gears/Stock Posi

Suspension:
- Polyurethane Sway Bar End Links (remove sway bar at track)
- Polyurethane Sway Bar Bushings
- Polyurethane Motor Mounts
- Polyurethane Transmission Mount
- Polyurethane Torque Arm Mount
- Lakewood Rear Lower Control Arms
- Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs

Exhaust:
- 3" Exhaust Cut Out in place of Catalytic Converter
- Stock Exhaust Manifolds

Wheels & Tires:
- Dunlop SP5000 255/50R16's on the back 16x8" IROC Rims, 30psi on the track
- Dunlop SP5000 245/50R16's on the front 16x8" IROC Rims, 42psi on the track

To zepher because of his girls :bow:

Thanks Zepher and Nitromethane, those are the kind of answers I was in search of when I posted this topic. Nitromethane, have you tried the HSR on your engine, just for comparison sake?

Not personally, but a friend of mine is gonna put one on his 86 t/a with ZZ4 cam in about 1-2 months, he has it sitting on his work bench, it'll definately be a major improvement over stock TPI, that thing is basically a modified tunnel ram. I can't remember exact dyno numbers but there was a kid at Vinci HiPerformance on the dyno with a HSR who peaked at 6200rpm, not sure what kinda cam, but i believe he was running low 12's naturally aspirated, possibly high 11's. I'm tempted to get one some day but I've got a back half project to pay for, when it run's 9's I'll start playing with my IROC some more - Headers are going on this tuesday, there's a dyno day coming up on the 28th so I'll be able to get some before/after dyno numbers to see what those headers can do - I was running 392ft lbs rw torque without headers so im hoping I pick up to over 400.