The Worst Design Flaw in a Camaro!!

The worst design flaw has to be the way they designed the shape/spacing of the T56 and surrounding area. It is freaking rediculous. I spent half the day literally wrestling with my transmission, first to get it out, then to get it back in, to no avail. This was with a tranny jack, and a floor jack. Could they have maybe designed it so that we had an extra 1/2 inch around the belhousing, so that there is room to move the tranny high enough to line up the input shaft, or would it have been too much to ask to cast a little flat spot on the bottom of the tranny, so that it would be possible to keep it level. I know ease of working on the vehicle usually doesn't rate too high on the design priorities, but a freakin pointed transmission, give me a break. If nothing else it is a safety issue. Anyway, I am just frustrated and needed to vent, thanks for listening. Hopefully tomorrow with a fresh perspective, I will have better results.

Just pay-it-forward to someone who won't be bothered by these issues

(me)

I'll give you the Volvo Beater.. that trans/engine bay are a joy to poke around in...

No the worst the design flaw has to be if you leave your driver's side window open in summer & you spray some windshield washer fluid, when the windshielf wiper wipes the water off it all comes right down inside & all over your door pannel, & lots of it :)

NO! The worst design flaw would definatly have to be the fact that the car sounds like a baby rattle when you are traveling down bumpy roads, or that fact that half of the engine is under the cowl, even a simple job like changing you fuel pressure regulator is frustrating.

Im suprised no one mentioned the optispark.

How about the doors that open way out into the next County?

I love the big doors :)

And if you wanted to unbolt the tranny you should have used a bout 3 feet of extension for the wrench and avoid the tight spaces all together.

Originally posted by dadsgreen95Z28
How about the doors that open way out into the next County?

i'll go ahead and mention passenger side EVERYTHING... damn its cramped (did longtubes yesturday)

The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

how about how dents just magically appear in the rear quarter panel?

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
how about how dents just magically appear in the rear quarter panel?

.......... and I thought I was the only one that noticed that!!!

I've been all over this car. When it runs good, it puts a smile on my face. My gripes are opening the rear hatch after washing the car or in the rain. Water poors right into the interior. The other main gripe is the cup holder location. I agree about the rattle prone plastic interior. But, like I said, when the loud pedal goes down, I'm all grins. My wife hates the lump in the passenger side floor board. As for the tight engine compartment, you can get around that by taking more stuff apart. Some of the things we dislike about the cars(like the engine halfway under the cowl) are some of the same things that make the car work as well as it does.

and why is there a back seat in the first place?

You have a hump in by the passenger seat? I thought that was only with the 98+ cars. I have road in my moms 2002 and it is very noticable...in my 94 i cannot say i have seen or felt a hump in the passenger area.

My complaints for flaws are about the same as you guys. The center console is an aggrivation...you can't hardly stick any drinks in there without expecting them to flip out. Other than get a new console do you guys have any other solutions to that?

Originally posted by CamaroGuy22
. My complaints for flaws are about the same as you guys. The center console is an aggrivation...you can't hardly stick any drinks in there without expecting them to flip out. Other than get a new console do you guys have any other solutions to that?

Get one of those old school cupholders that hangs off the door. You know, the kind that sandwiches between the window and door panel and hangs there:lol:

John

The size and wieght....its a pig.

this pretty much sums it up "4L60E"...what a piece of ****

Two words.



Fuel gauge :blah:

Its made out of way too many parts that aren't Corvette parts!
But yeah, the placement of the cupholder makes no sense on a 6 speed car and the fuel gauge sucks.

doin the rear main well good luck

if you need any help im off mon and tue so shoot me a line




Window motors they die sooooo quickly in this heat

Yeah well, you guys are right, there are many other nuicances on this car, but as was said earlier, I love it when it works right. The tranny thing was on my mind simply because I was in the middle of it, but I can't say I haven't experienced everything you guys are talking about as well. These cars have many interesting quirks, but oh so fun.:D

as far as removing the trans. (i've had mine out 5 times now), all u gotta do is get a BFH a dent the trans. tunnel where the bellhousing bolts go, so next time u can get to the bolts with no trouble at all. Use the SUPER long ext. as mentionted earlier. One more complaint, M6 guys only, the noise we have with the trans. in N and clutch out. Mine has done it since it was brand new. I think its the output shaft, not sure. Its all worth it, rattles, water in the interior, lack of room, blah blah..........when u spank the guy at the track who trailered his tubbed out, no interior having, no stereo, no a/c, no pass. seat having car:metal:
Nothing like handing someone there a$$ and then passing them up on the way home with there ride in tow behind them, and u got the a/c on, stereo thumping and 3 playmates laughing at them:eek: Well, maybe not playmates, but u get the idea. Long live "street" cars:bow:

The problem I was having was not so much the bolt access, but I simply could not get the input shaft into the clutch/pp assembly because of the limited space. Never fear though, I went out this morning, and in less than an hour had it back where it belongs. I guess new perspective was all it took.

Originally posted by CamaroGuy22
You have a hump in by the passenger seat? I thought that was only with the 98+ cars. I have road in my moms 2002 and it is very noticable...in my 94 i cannot say i have seen or felt a hump in the passenger area.

My complaints for flaws are about the same as you guys. The center console is an aggrivation...you can't hardly stick any drinks in there without expecting them to flip out. Other than get a new console do you guys have any other solutions to that?

Have you EVER sat in a 93-97? If you fold your left leg up, your foot will be right on top of said hump...

I think its clearance for the tranny iirc

Originally posted by Ghettoraid
Have you EVER sat in a 93-97? If you fold your left leg up, your foot will be right on top of said hump...

I think its clearance for the tranny iirc
The Hump is for the Catalytic converter.

Has this one not been mentioned yet?

When your car is wet, open the hatch and water pours into your interior. :mad:

i could name probably 15 thngs i dont like about the car but none of the equal the way i feel about it when i stomp it down and blow a little junkstang off the road. :cool: theres alot of good things and bad things about the design but hey its not a perfect world and the cars are fast so thats all that matters to me.

I necer realized this because I've owned so many of the cars over the years but my wife hates my car because it is so hard to get in and out of. I never realized it until she pointed it out.

Originally posted by bigsteve7
Has this one not been mentioned yet?

When your car is wet, open the hatch and water pours into your interior. :mad:

I hate that it really pisses me off. :mad:

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
how about how dents just magically appear in the rear quarter panel?

Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
.......... and I thought I was the only one that noticed that!!!

Im with you here on that

Another vote for the opti/waterpump design.

THE WORST desin flaw in a camaro is the damn hump in the passenger side seat area to clear the damn catalyic converter. :mad:

The good news is that a company created such a vehicle with all of these improvements......a Honda Oddesy!

- It has many, well placed cupholders.
- No Passenger hump for a catalytic converter
- No Optispark
- Engine not under cowl
- No noisy transmission
- Easy to get out in/out of
- Nice, quiet high-grade plastic interior
- Power window motors that work great
- a hatch that doesn't let water in
- Since the tranny is inside the engine compartment, no tranny tunnel that restricts access to it
- a fuel guage that works as advertised
- no "Magical" Dents



For the rest of us that realized that we bought the car for it's cheap price/high performance quotient, there are the F-bodies which I am proud to say has all of the above problems :bow:

The 2 worst things that come to mind is a weak 10 bolt rear and the opti. They should have stuck a 12 bolt in these cars and never put the optispark under the water pump a regular distributor would have been better or even the coils like the ls1 cars.

My 2 cents,
Claude

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
a regular distributor would have been better





I couldnt agree with you more on the opti problems, but you try to change a dristributer mounted in the converntional SBC location with the engine where it is. Taking off the waterpump is a PITA but its easier than takin out the engine.




And I have a few of thoes magical rear quarter pannel dents too.


How about the huge winshield that is impossible to clean? Works good with rain-X though.

And the smooth plastic dash that when u armorall becomes so shiney that the sun's reflection off of it in the windshield makes it near impossible to see?


Just my thoughts.:p
-Ted:D

Originally posted by My94RedZ28A4
The good news is that a company created such a vehicle with all of these improvements......a Honda Oddesy!

- It has many, well placed cupholders.
- No Passenger hump for a catalytic converter
- No Optispark
- Engine not under cowl
- No noisy transmission
- Easy to get out in/out of
- Nice, quiet high-grade plastic interior
- Power window motors that work great
- a hatch that doesn't let water in
- Since the tranny is inside the engine compartment, no tranny tunnel that restricts access to it
- a fuel guage that works as advertised
- no "Magical" Dents



For the rest of us that realized that we bought the car for it's cheap price/high performance quotient, there are the F-bodies which I am proud to say has all of the above problems :bow:

Its as heavy as the camaro so no improvement on my complaint;)

i like my camaro:) even with its flaws, if any:D

oh, except the opti:mad:

I have no complaints, I don't mind paying for an exellent mechanic, why frustrate yourself? I could care less how the passenger feels about the hump, I don't drink in my car, and if you lay two towels down underneath the hatch when you lift it up after washing it runs on to the towels, no problem:D Life is gravy....

Just being a smart @ss! Take it easy guys...

Clean the inteior after the body. Im with the rest of them with the dents!!!

you guys have done a great job so far, so i'll throw my hat in the ring too...

has no one noticed the HUGE blind spots that're the size of texas????

i was just thinkin that too, everytime i get on the freeway i have to dam near stick my head out the window to make sure theres no one right there, i love my little z tho...my brothers 98gt doesnt have any of these listed problems but when we line em up people clearly see where all chevys focus went (350c.i. baby...i love it)!

To all those bitching about cupholders, start drinking Dr. Enuf. Bottles fit perfectly in there and never budged under hard turns. :)

Originally posted by Ghettoraid
Have you EVER sat in a 93-97? If you fold your left leg up, your foot will be right on top of said hump...
I

Have i ever sat in a camaro? Alright, i will think that one pretty hard. I have had 2 Camaros from 93-97. My mom has had 3. As a kid i rode around in my moms camaro. I think i know what riding in one is like. If you read what i posted i said it is really noticeable in my moms newer one. I find the hump to be hardly noticable at all in comparison in my 94. I have driven people around in the 02' and people bitch constantly about it, versus my 94 people never seem to notice. Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by FlyBono24
:lol: My girlfriend hates that hump too when she sits in the car!!

Fu*king cupholder is my biggest aggravation!! One time I was turning a corner really fast to show off, and a Taco Bell cruiser cup (big cup, with a small bottom to fit into cupholders) flew out, bounced across the passenger seat, and broke open all over my passenger floormat!!

I have done the same exact thing, and another time i made a cup flip out onto my lap

I'm surpised that nobody has said this so far, but I would like to add to the list of crappy thing -

Spark Plugs! :mad:

First time I ever changed them, it took 5 freakin hours.:mad:
I did a friends 67SS the next day.
It took 15 mins - and I drank a beer after I got 4 done........:rolleyes:

Oh well, I guess we can be gratefull that GM didn't make it so we have to pull the engine just to get them out...........:o

I totally agree with all of the previous comments.
Except the cupholder thing - 97's have a newer dash and a better cupholder, 2 in fact.:)

what a good design:rolleyes:

There are some flaws, I'm not defending the opti here but to the people who say why didn't they use coils like on the opti. Well the coils setup kind of was what the engineers did AFTER the opti.

But if you want to here about a bad car my Mom had a VW a few years back and she went to have the water pump changed, well the bill came to like 600 dolllars in labor alone the parts were like 50. So my Dad goes down there to find out why and its because they had to pull the motor!

Originally posted by Dmx4ever3

to have sex in my car is like the hardest :bow: :Owned: :thumb: :cry: :D

lmao. :eek: actually, i agree with you on that one. when i first got my car, i had so much trouble...the girl i was with back then was so frustrated...but, after position changes, we managed to find something that accomodated our kinkiness. ;)

And I have a few of thoes magical rear quarter pannel dents too.


Another vote for the magical dents that appear, and for the opti and ALL of the other stuff mentioned above including the sex in the car. It's freakin hard to do. Might as well just get out and go at it on the ground. :p Oh well though i love my car and wouldnt trade it for the world............



Chris

Originally posted by 95z28 -quicksilver
Might as well just get out and go at it on the ground. :p


Chris


nahhh, God bless that sturdy hood. :D

rear defroster anybody?...the dam thing will come on for about a min then cut off then when you cut it back on it cuts off faster.

The senter console sucks. I can't count the times that I broke the hinge on the console lid. Your right about the cup holder but I got a great solution for that one. Pep Boys sells a cup holder insert t oaccomodate the mondo size cups and coffe mugs with handles. I pulled out the rubber grippy thing and soliconed that bad boy in there. No more cup launching on the hard brakes! Worked terrific!

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
rear defroster anybody?...the dam thing will come on for about a min then cut off then when you cut it back on it cuts off faster.

Mine works great, I think :p

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
rear defroster anybody?...the dam thing will come on for about a min then cut off then when you cut it back on it cuts off faster.

ahhh god I hate that ****ing thing. *click* 30 seconds later it goes off *click* 10 seconds later it goes off *click* nothing:mad: I also have about 5 of those little dents in the right quarter. how do you guys get them out?

ha ha

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
The 2 worst things that come to mind is a weak 10 bolt rear and the opti. They should have stuck a 12 bolt in these cars and never put the optispark under the water pump a regular distributor would have been better or even the coils like the ls1 cars.

My 2 cents,
Claude

AMEN!!! :cool:

Originally posted by SweetZRag
The senter console sucks. I can't count the times that I broke the hinge on the console lid.

That damn design does blow.....next to impossible to get anything out of it while driving.

In my TA, there is one spot that holds most regular size cups just fine, but it's located on the passenger door panel LOL. I don't know why they didn't put that extra hump on the driver's side door panel. You just have to have a long reach to use that cup holder.

Appearance-wise, the leaking and fading taillights just kill me:mad:

The ONLY Problem I have is it's VERY hard to Screw in :) I got it done but had to take the T-Tops out!!!! :D All the other things in this post are what I call "Features" even when somthing dies, I just Love to work on it, and make it better!

Also I'm suprised noone has complained about the left bolster of the drivers seat, Mine has never done it, but all my freins have had problems with them wear through:)

You guy's got cup holders? I got a loose change holder. Must have been a different option.

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
and why is there a back seat in the first place?

I never understood this gripe, I think those seats are plenty big enough for someone to sit in. I've had several passengers back there. Not the best spot to sit but it works. Those rear quarter dents do suck, I'll agree. Whats that from again, the body flexing?? I'll also agree with the tightness of the passenger side. But to stick to the originl gripe, I had no problem wrestling the tranny out. The only problem is thats its so heavy. I remember taking my T-5 out by just setting it on my chest. :D
THE WORST DESIGN IS THE ****TY REAR END@! ALL THAT POWER AND NO STRENGTH TO USE IT!!

Originally posted by Dmx4ever3
i think i got the best flaw, you ready for this one OK,
how about ****ing
to have sex in my car is like the hardest think in my life when i first thought of try i didn't even what to but after years of having the car and different girls ahhhhh i think i can now get it on with out a problem but even now and then my girl nee gets banged up and well its just very hard to do but i can do different things beside just one now buts this is only cause i don't have my own place yet and i live with my Mom and hotels can cost a lot and IM not allowed in my girls house cause i lost my job and her parents are dicks about that but after all the ****ing i have done in my car, my right side seat is breaking and when no one sits there in make weird noises and its like the more sex i have in the car, it sounds like my cars coming apart and making more and more noises but that just my 02 cents :bow: :Owned: :thumb: :cry: :D

What the hell does that say? That hurts to read man, use a ****ing period at least! Or maybe a comma or two.

;)

Originally posted by Dmx4ever3
i think i got the best flaw, you ready for this one OK,
how about ****ing
to have sex in my car is like the hardest think in my life when i first thought of try i didn't even what to but after years of having the car and different girls ahhhhh i think i can now get it on with out a problem but even now and then my girl nee gets banged up and well its just very hard to do but i can do different things beside just one now buts this is only cause i don't have my own place yet and i live with my Mom and hotels can cost a lot and IM not allowed in my girls house cause i lost my job and her parents are dicks about that but after all the ****ing i have done in my car, my right side seat is breaking and when no one sits there in make weird noises and its like the more sex i have in the car, it sounds like my cars coming apart and making more and more noises but that just my 02 cents :bow: :Owned: :thumb: :cry: :D

Thats halirious! I forgot all about that. I used to have to take the t-top off to make it work!! I don't care for all that wear and tear on the passenger seat though.

Some women like the E-Brake Handle ;)

What the hell does that say? That hurts to read man, use a ****ing period at least! Or maybe a comma or two.

I fell off my chair i was laughing so hard

3 things rank at the top for me.

1. cant see out of it half the time
2. poor 10 bolt diff.
3. poor braking system

Letting the F body die without fixing any of the gripes is what I hate.
My has it's problems from time to time, but it is such a hoot to drive.

I think my brakes are awesome.. Yeah, I have 2 of those rear quarter panel dents too. WTF man. Only time I really notice them is out of the side mirror!!!! How do you get rid of them.

I read all the responses, but personally these are my gripes:

1) Water dripping from the rear taillight area and the side mirrors after washing the car. You have it all nice and clean, then drive it only to find nice dried dust spots from dripping water.

2) Water dripping from hatch after washing. I found out that opening it just slightly and letting it sit there keeps the water from dripping all over the place. After a few minutes, I open it the rest of the way. MUCH less water comes out and you can normally catch it with a towel first.

3) Not being able to see well because of the B-pillar being so huge

4 Cleaning the inside of the back window. You have to be a freakin contortionist.

5) Cleaning the inside of the front window, way down in front.

6) The jiggle of the inside dash on bumps.

7) The only decent cupholder is the one that swings out on the passenger side. (at least on my '97) It feels pretty weak and I worry about breaking it.

8) Work on the engine.

9) The hump on the passenger side floor, but I don't sit there so it doesn't bother me, and my wife doesn't complain about it.

10) The popping from the exhaust if you try to accelerate at even a medium pace after starting up the car if it hasn't been run for a few hours. It goes away within a couple of minutes, but still a gripe.

11) Rear quarter panel dents suck. (I have one) It is not a bad design of the Camaro, rather the fault of idiots not watching where they open their doors next to you. (and I normally park far away from other cars)

12) The little window rattle you get from the door when you shut it if the window is down.

13) Slow power windows.

14) Intake Manifold Leak

15) Failing Water Pumps

16) Failing Fuel Pumps

17) The wonderful "skip shift" feature on the M6. (although this was deleted a LONG time ago on my car)

For all those flaws, the great design features of my Camaro FAR OUTWEIGH any negatives I have. It's one of the all time greatest "Bang for the Buck" out here.

Dan

Originally posted by shoebox
The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)


Shoebox you have no idea how many people I say that too...


:bow:

I dont think the trans ams get the rear quarter panel dents. The reason I say this is because my camaro alway got them but my trans am never has.

Dan's list of 17 is right on the money! I hate the rattling partially down windows! And I am a clean glass freak and no matter how hard I try to clean the inside glass, when the right sunlight catches it you still see marks! I even shine halogen floods on my windows at different angles to try and imitate the sun but somehow I always have spots I missed!

The other things that bother me are the small rattles I can never seem to find and that damn stumble/flutter my engine has developed under light accel.

But all it's faults and constantly smoothing them out is what has made me love my car and I don't ever want to get rid of her!

Originally posted by FlyBono24
[BFu*king cupholder is my biggest aggravation!! One time I was turning a corner really fast to show off, and a Taco Bell cruiser cup (big cup, with a small bottom to fit into cupholders) flew out, bounced across the passenger seat, and broke open all over my passenger floormat!! [/B]


well cmon..........you already knew the cupholder sucked.........its your own fault for actually using it!

i learned my lesson the hard way too, when i first go the car................had just stopped by 7-11 for a nice large slurpee.........driving away trying to figure out how to shift my M6 with this big cup in the cupholder, when someone cuts me off and i have to get hard on the brakes..............i think i watched in slow motion as that slurpee decorated the interior.


ohh if only i could meet the design group in charge of this car.

you guys keep mentioning the cost/performance ratio, and how thats supposed to be the explanation for the poorly designed things. but in reality..........most of those things were easily avoidable without much effort......they just didnt bother.

Originally posted by rage366
you guys have done a great job so far, so i'll throw my hat in the ring too...

has no one noticed the HUGE blind spots that're the size of texas????

You ain't seen blindspots until you've driven in a Vert Z28 with the top up LOL....

The one buggin me the most right now...

No one else has complained about this yet so i dont know if mine is the only one or not but, my damn dash is cracking and breaking badly, it first started when i put a soundsystem in it and after about a week of vibrating that hard i heard it crack when i was just drivin around. Since then it has gone to ****.

As for the rest of em...

Cupholders suck,
Hard to do anything under the hood,
Sex in it, you guys are sayin you gotta take your t-tops out? I dont have t-tops and i dont have any problems, its a little cramped but when your gonna get some it easy.
Rear deffoger i hate that damn thing,
Center console cover is fully removable on mine,
Why do we really need that hump on the passenger side? How many of us still have cats on our cars?
Rear hatch pouring water in the interior
WINDOW MOTORS
Optispark
Last but certainly not least... 4L60E GM's since of humor sucks cause obviously this is a damn joke. A transmission is supposed to make the power get to the rear wheels right? Mine would work for about a month then i had a bunch of nuetrals and that was the end of it, after 6 of em i made a change to the TH700R4 so far no complaints.

my complaints are:

halogen headlights arent that bright.
gas cap door dosent lock (had to get a locking gas cap)
Other than that i love my car.

If you think the 4th gens had bad build quality, u should have drove my old 3rd gen. The dash would jump up and down at speeds of 80+mph. the roofboard would sag worse and worse every summer day, the seats tore easy, fold up button on the back of the seats would break, No cupholder whatsoever, no glovebox, horrible ac system controls that hissed at you, front tires rubbed on sharp turns with little 225's

the 4th gens are built soo much more snug than the 3rd gens. Dont get me wrong tho, i still love the look of a nice clean 3rd.

I will have to agree with the blinds spots

Hump for the cat don't affect me cause I don't sit there but no pasenger has complained yet

Yes it's hard to get into but it's a sports coupe the Vetts just as hard to get in!

The water thing with the rear hatch and no rear wiper don't you guys have those ?

My cup holder does fine with a can of coke!

My brakes are red hot Abs is brill theres been a couple of times when I think f**k I've over done this I aint gonna stop and that abs hawls me down. Thats why I sold the 85 L98 Vett cause it didn't stop it needed abs bad, 4 black stripes 50 foot long s**t!

I can put up with all these things as minor irrations
but working under the hood all I got to say is sparks plugs and wires. Man GM must hate car mechanics.

I could have set fire to it when the opti was playing up but now it's running like a dream and it will smoke almost anything on the roads over here. Only things it won't beat are Porches and Ferraris and those posers don't race! But with the rigtht go fast parts it will take them too!

I have had about 50 different cars and this is by far the best yet!
Until I can afford a C5 Vett that is

The headlights really suck...

The jack points spread the fender panels out...

The fuel pump access and not being in a sump or something to keep it cool when the tank gets low...

Weep hole directly over the opti has to be number 1...

Cooling system (too much to list)...

Map straps on visors that instantly over-stretch and hang loose...

Plastic molding on windshield with poor sealant that comes loose and flaps in the wind...

Stupid slow passenger electric window...

Of course I still love it more than any other car I've ever owned...
:D

Originally posted by TonyJ

The jack points spread the fender panels out...

Those aren't jack points. ;)

Opti Sucks- all the rattles just GM quality int. window and door lock buttons what a joke ! replaced 3 times in 9 yrs. the hump in the floor welcome to a camaro. Backing up in my conv. at night or the daytime with the top up sucks blind spot? how bout just blind :D But I have had my car 9 yrs bran new in 95 and I still have it and wouldent cange a thing. when i jump on it all the little crap just seems to go away:bow: just my 2 cent's

Wow, no one has mentioned the window motors? Not that I care, mine are manual ;).

Fuel gauge, optispark, notorious oil leaks, optispark, friends always slamming the f*ckin door, and cupholder that has no useful purpose.

I hate those magical quarter panel dings. I have one on each side in the same exact place!! I have a hard time believing that they are both parking lot scars. I thought I read once that this can happen with hard cornering unless you have SFCs?

Originally posted by shoebox
The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

i agree 100%...........stereo:lol: i like my exhaust soo much i yanked all the stereo equipment out of the car

the windshield pisses me off also since there is no drip edge to track the water

other then that i love my car no matter how crude it is (its not a BMW)

How about the headlight gear stripping like its nobodys business!

Originally posted by Robert_K
How about the headlight gear stripping like its nobodys business!

this is www.CAMAROZ28.com we dont have that problem over here:p :p

Originally posted by shoebox
The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

Hear hear!

I just ahd opportunity to whip around a nice set of twisties a couple weeks ago. Dayum. The car felt like a go-cart. It was just so "connected" to the road! Sheer delight even for an old man like me!:D

Man I forgot about the sagging visor straps!

BTW all you guys complaining about blind spots, do you adjust your mirrors properly!? I don't mean it as an insult, I would say that over 95% of drivers on the road don't, even I didn't until I read this trick in a driving book and it amazed the hell out of me.

Basically if they are set up properly you should be able to watch a car come up in your rearview mirror, transition to your side view mirror and then transition into your peripheral vision(no need to turn your head) without ever losing sight of the car(ie it is in at least one mirror+periph version all the time). Try it, it feels wierd at first until you let someone pass you/you pass someone and you will be a permanent convert.

This article is similar to what was in the book:
http://www.smartmotorist.com/mir/mir.htm
"For the driver's side mirror: Place the side of your head against the window, then adjust the mirror until the side of your vehicle comes into view. For the passenger's side mirror: While sitting in the driver's seat, lean to the right so that your head is in the car's centerline. Adjust the mirror until the side of your vehicle comes into view. "

I find that with our cars you want just a tiny bit of the rear fender in your view with your head leaned over. Then I go out on the freeway and tweak it a little by doing "drive by's" until satisfied.

I don't know if its just me, but my @%# nose cone seems to have a massive magnet in it, just in the year I've owned it its been hit (not my fault) FOUR times! I park waaaaay the hell out in the parking lot too. Maybe this is something just about firebirds, but DAMN its annoying.

Originally posted by TonyJ
The headlights really suck...

The jack points spread the fender panels out...

The fuel pump access and not being in a sump or something to keep it cool when the tank gets low...

Weep hole directly over the opti has to be number 1...

Cooling system (too much to list)...

Map straps on visors that instantly over-stretch and hang loose...

Plastic molding on windshield with poor sealant that comes loose and flaps in the wind...

Stupid slow passenger electric window...

Of course I still love it more than any other car I've ever owned...
:D

Those "jack points" are just tempting spots to put a jack, but they're not jack points. Once you do it, you have bent up fenders.

These cars can be a pain in the a** but nothing feels better when all your friends drive stangs and they are all trying to play catch up. :D

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
how about how dents just magically appear in the rear quarter panel?

:lol: Another reason why the f-body needs subframes :p

I look at them as obsticles......like driving at night and you can only see 20 feet in front of you;)

The Flaws of our cars. It's what makes us proud to own an F-body...........it's the reason we own the F-body and not the Corvette(who wants a car that starts every time you crank her over.....lol)....these flaws are what brings us together. We know the stuggles that each of us go through just to keep these cars going. The Camaro has always been a name you knew and it still is. The Camaro has always been a group to stick together.....these flaws bring us even closer. We are here now and will be here in the future......they cannot get rid of us. I will be changing optis 30 years from know (if i can still get them).

Originally posted by "White Knight"
I look at them as obsticles......like driving at night and you can only see 20 feet in front of you;)

The Flaws of our cars. It's what makes us proud to own an F-body...........it's the reason we own the F-body and not the Corvette(who wants a car that starts every time you crank her over.....lol)....these flaws are what brings us together. We know the stuggles that each of us go through just to keep these cars going. The Camaro has always been a name you knew and it still is. The Camaro has always been a group to stick together.....these flaws bring us even closer. We are here now and will be here in the future......they cannot get rid of us. I will be changing optis 30 years from know (if i can still get them).

To the Brotherhood of F-Body owners :alert:

OK I said to myself I wasn't gonna post but DAMN quit pickin on the damn car.

1. Optispark, optispark, optispark. Thats all I EVER hear I got almost 100,000 miles outta mine and the car started running ROUGH so I changed it.. am I the only one that finds that INCREDIBLE!!!! remember buying cap, rotor, wires, and plugs every 10-15,000? Now granted mine was vented from the factory

2. The "HUMP" on the passenger side. WHO CARES, I Never sit there, and it's not like it's a mountain, It's 2 inches of space, Near the seat unless your 4ft tall, it's not gonna be a problem

3. Headlights, , , Shame on you you pontiac drivers comes with the territory :)

these so called flaws I call "Features" and remember F-Bods (IMO) are the last american muscle cars Bad Ass attitude there not supposed to be BMW's !!!

don't be hatin' :cool:

Originally posted by 107



Basically if they are set up properly you should be able to watch a car come up in your rearview mirror,

I have never seen anyone come up to me on the highway, so I didn't know anything about the blind spots until tonight.:D

All the other features about my Z28 reported here, if they weren't there, I would think I'm driving my wife's Avenger.

Damm, I love this car.

Originally posted by RickS
my complaints are:

halogen headlights arent that bright.
gas cap door dosent lock (had to get a locking gas cap)
Other than that i love my car.

If you think the 4th gens had bad build quality, u should have drove my old 3rd gen. The dash would jump up and down at speeds of 80+mph. the roofboard would sag worse and worse every summer day, the seats tore easy, fold up button on the back of the seats would break, No cupholder whatsoever, no glovebox, horrible ac system controls that hissed at you, front tires rubbed on sharp turns with little 225's

the 4th gens are built soo much more snug than the 3rd gens. Dont get me wrong tho, i still love the look of a nice clean 3rd.

You speak the truth. I traded in a 1982 Indy 500 Pace car for my SS. I doubt you could find 2 cars that were more different.

Originally posted by "White Knight"
The Flaws of our cars. It's what makes us proud to own an F-body...........it's the reason we own the F-body and not the Corvette


lmfao....yeah right.....i just couldnt afford to buy a new house and a vette at the same time, but you can bet your butt that ill trade my fbody in a millisecond to get a C5 when i can.

when it comes to washing the car is is annoying how water always collects:

-under the spoiler (the seam), which runs either inside the car or onto the tailights.
-in the 'troughs' next to the hatch unleash onto the rear of the. car the first time you take off.
-in the mirror casings.
-on the cracks of the side markers.
-in the cracks of the turn signals.

I have adapted to using technique to overcome many of these, but sometimes it seems the water coming from a single crack is endless/infinite :mad:

On the plus side, I dont hate anything about my car :D

I have 2 95 f-bodies, Z28 and T/A love them both and yes the do have problems but when something goes wrong you know how to fix them due to past experiences and reading this board. These days the LT1 f-bodies are getting very cheap to purchase. You could buy a '90 GT stang and pay more for it and it would definately be ragged out. I would rather buy a decent f-body that may need some work but will cost you less than the GT. For the lesser priced f-body you will get better performance, better handling, more comfortable interior, better sound system, and a car that looks like a '90's car not a car that started its life in 1979 and has only had minor upgrades, 4 lug wheels, rear drum brakes, and a weak T5 transmission.

Originally posted by mycarisfasterthanyours
The worst design flaw has to be the way they designed the shape/spacing of the T56 and surrounding area. It is freaking rediculous. I spent half the day literally wrestling with my transmission, first to get it out, then to get it back in, to no avail. This was with a tranny jack, and a floor jack. Could they have maybe designed it so that we had an extra 1/2 inch around the belhousing, so that there is room to move the tranny high enough to line up the input shaft, or would it have been too much to ask to cast a little flat spot on the bottom of the tranny, so that it would be possible to keep it level. I know ease of working on the vehicle usually doesn't rate too high on the design priorities, but a freakin pointed transmission, give me a break. If nothing else it is a safety issue. Anyway, I am just frustrated and needed to vent, thanks for listening. Hopefully tomorrow with a fresh perspective, I will have better results.

I've never had a problem with the setup. Had it in and out of there over 20 times atleast. Of course after that many times I don't think it's a big deal. The first time was a peti.


Neal

something like this?...!

(while driving)
One second it's full, ok now it's a 1/4 tank..no no wait..now it's 3/4 full, oh ok...now it's back to 1/4 tank again..ok..it just jumped to full, damn ...ok...ok....it's not doing anything..hey? I ran out of gas... lol


Originally posted by ibanez6rg
Two words.



Fuel gauge :blah:

lmfao....yeah right.....i just couldnt afford to buy a new house and a vette at the same time, but you can bet your butt that ill trade my fbody in a millisecond to get a C5 when i can.


Then your not in the brotherhood:alert: LOL

The hump on the passengerside has been there since 83. I found the rattltttttleing noise when you hit bumps is the PLASTIC centercaps. My gripe would be how hard it is to change the #8 spark plug on the 96z with duel cats.

everyone has named all the gripes! :( none to name for me! heres a bump cause this thread is good to the people wanting to know what to look fro in fbodies

Alright alright, I've followed this thread for a while. It really cracks me up since all of it is so true. I've owned my Z28 for around 6 months now, and it does have its quirks. Here's my 2 cents.

1. The fuel gauage: The tank is really only half full when it reads 3/4, what the heck?

2. Washing the car usually leads to the inside of the door being wet.

3. The mysterious rear quarter panel dents, I've got like two of them.

4. The wicked slow power windows.

5. The useless cupholder.

6. The nice ash tray (change tray) that always loses my change under the shifter.

7. The sagging visor bands.

8. Engine work, UGH!

9. Friends always shut the doors by the windows, WTF are they doing?!

10. The window rattles if you don't open the door before you roll it up.

11. Shutting the door sounds like the window just exploded.

12. The rear defroster only works with the top 5 lines.

13. Where the hell is that rattle coming from?!

14. The hump of course, that kinda sucks.

15. Do those air vents above the steering wheel even blow anything?

16. Opening a wet hatch while the wind is blowing -- not a good idea.

17. The dash collects more dust than an Ionic Breeze.

18. The alarm would goes off everytime I lock the car. (had to disconnect the shock sensor)

Don't get me wrong, I love my car. All those things just add to its personality.

Originally posted by chevyboy_z28
how about how dents just magically appear in the rear quarter panel?

I got those too, but maybe the fence I hit caused that.:confused:

OPTISPARKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK worst design of all time!!!!!


window motors. LS1 & LT1
changing number 8 spark plug. LS1 & LT1


everything else is very much bareable and worth it! Ive owned 5 4th gens and am pretty sure there will be more. these cars are the best on the streets and yall know it!

Originally posted by shoebox
Would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

I thought I was the only one who did this. My Wife thinks I am nuts. The sound of a V8 with nice deep exhaust. :thumb:

Originally posted by bunker
No the worst the design flaw has to be if you leave your driver's side window open in summer & you spray some windshield washer fluid, when the windshielf wiper wipes the water off it all comes right down inside & all over your door pannel, & lots of it :)

Man!!! I hate that!! :mad:

The nice ash tray (change tray) that always loses my change under the shifter.

My shifter cable broke and i had to take the center console completely apart. after moving the plastic around the shifter I noticed a few pennies and a dime or two in there. I thought "At least I'll get some money back after I'm done." well upon further inspection 10 years of change had collected down there and I was $6.00+ richer by the end of the process, but there were only 7 or 8 quarters...

A big complaint of mine is the transmission mount. I've owned the car since august of last year and I've gone through 3 stockish ones. I now finally have a polyurethane mount and it vibrates the hell out of the interior. I lose either way :(

Also when I first bought the car, there wasn't a rattle to be heard. I thought "what are all these f-body owners talking about?" Then I realized they all start popping up after you mod the car (headers, gears)

Its funny reading this though, alot of the problems I have had very similar occurences and I thought I was the only one that was having the problems. I dont feel alone now!

Turthfully I can live with all the problems of the F-body... rattles squeaks and all... my only real complaint it that there's no Roots styled blower for the thing because the dang things can't fit under the cowel... grrr ... now what fun is it having this huge hood now?

Welp here it goes,

#1 Drivers Side Window goes up and down whenever the hell it feels like it!!

#2 Water Drips After drying your car that come out of nowhere when you go for a drive!

#3 GAWD DAMN WORTHLESS CUP HOLDER However I recently took apart the center console and cleaned the **** out of it and now it works better than I ever remember (AUTO)

#4 Fuel Guage for Sure Sputtering way too frequent at 1/4 tank.... UGHHH?

#5 The SPARE TIRE LOCATION is definatley not wife friendly nor is removing it

#6 Pinion Seals :)

#7 My little ass apartment garage with 10 foot doors... Love them otherwise :)

#8 The stock POS Stereo in 93-96 REPLACED

#9 I LOVE THIS CAR TO DEATH AND LITTLE **** WILL NEVER SEPARATE ME FROM IT UNLESS I BUY BIG BROTHER :)

HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!

9. Friends always shut the doors by the windows, WTF are they doing?!


I was just thinking this myself. It really drives me crazy and I think that everyone that rides in my car does it. I think one of these times the whole window is just going to snap off.

yes although the camaro has alot of design flaws, its really not all that bad to work on. you want to talk about design flaws im a mechanic in the army, becides the army itself having many design flaws,all the vehicles in the army are pieces of $hit. i would work on my camaro all day long rather than mess with the stuff that i work on. the fact is that the camaro is some of the best that american engineers have to offer, and you should have a feeling of pride every time you spend hours busting your knuckels throwing tools and and screaming every obsenity known to man, because when you see those mustang headlights in your rearview it all becomes worth it.i havent driven my camaro in over 6 months and right now I would give my right nut to drive it. and if this dosent make you see things in a diffrent light than go buy a honda.
P.S. I hate the way my stock rear couldent even stand the stock power, and i hate how easily the rotors warp.

No The Cup Holder Right Behind The Shifter

You ain't seen blindspots until you've driven in a Vert Z28 with the top up LOL....


I second that. Want a real experience in no hindsight? Drive a Camaro convertible. ;) - I traded mine in, I got tired of hitting stuff. :p

Other rants:

I fix my opti and the harness connector breaks
I fix my ignition switch and the connectors start getting loose and cutting out
I fix my power windows and the module dies and I get to rewire everything

GM electronics stinks. The other stuff is just an annoyance. Leaving the store and getting into your Z28 with a couple chicks parked next to you, only to turn the key and have nothing happen has got to be on top of my pet peeves list. :mad:

17. The dash collects more dust than an Ionic Breeze.

:lol:

i have to use the cupholder in the passenger door. I had to drink accidents using the center console one. I'm 6'5 so fortunately i can actially reach it while i'm driving.

Power window motors blow and replacing them even blows more!

The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

Once again the info you provide is most accurate!! :thumb: :thumb:

i have zero complants if you dont like something change it. thats what after market is for. well i guess i have a few complaints my car shakes back and forth like a getto butty, and my body tend to twist when the wheels lift off the ground. other than that zero complaints.

I have had a 96 ta,97 taws6 and now 96 z28 vert and also still have a 99 taws6.

Things don't like about my fourth gens.Window motors are weak crap.Opticrap is stupidest thing I have ever seen.Under water pump,how freakin retarded are these gm engineers.Rear end is joke and belongs in 100 hp s10 truck.come to think of it thats where its from.Should have been minimum 10 bolt 8.5 like my 80 ta.
The cat hump is pretty stupid but I am not a passenger very often so really don't care about that..its not my problem.
The engine being under the cowl does make it a pain to work on but guess that gives it the front rear balance for good handling and you have to sacrifice some things for styling.
Other things..lt1 brakes are pretty lame compared to ls1 brakes.Pop up headlight gears are cheap crap plastic.Interior is cheap and will scratch easily.Ford makes great tough plastic interiors.Not that I am a ford fan.
People complain its low and doors are big..a price we pay for styling.They are great looking cars.
Engines seem pretty reliable,trannies not too bad so far.Actually all my f bodies have been very good reliability wise.I like the fact most panels on the car are not metal.Unfortunate they made the back quarters metal so they stil get dents from doors and the dents on top of back quarters is stupid and I put subframe connectors on my cars some from day one and they still have them.
Another complaint it subframe design.They need subfame connectors.
They do rattle and squeak quite a bit but the vette I drove the other day a 98 wasn't so great either.
They handle pretty good,ride not too bad aside from the rattles and mainly they look good,go fast and are fun to play with.

Now I do have sort of an import too.92 eagle talon awd turbo.Its big fun,gets great traction,looks pretty cool and as for reliability well you pretty much need to buy two or them and parts can be very pricey on import stuff.When warranty is gone you better hope its a common car and even then you could be in shellshock when you see the price of things we get for relatively cheap from gm.They call the mits dealers satan on the dsm talon boards and porche or other import parts can be crazy bucks too.

They should have ...never put the optispark under the water pump a regular distributor would have been better ...


Can you imagine how pissed we'd all be if they put a rear mouted distributor in there?

Envision having to drop the engine to pull a distributor...There'd be folks foaming at the mouth.

As for the cupholders, the center one on M6s is a joke, but my formy has the flip out passenger one too. That's the one I stow my very mandatory travel mug of morning coffee in.

I've never had so much laughs reading a thread before. You all are right on the money but I wouldn't trade her for anything.

It was probably already mentioned but I'll have to add this one to my list...
The wonderful plastic retainer that holds the leather shifter bag in place because it's so fragile. :mad:

I'd have to say the cup holder. I mean, whats up with that?

I've taken the transmission out enough times that it is becoming an art form for me. I put 2 ea. 2 x 4 boards on top of a piece of plywood with a space big enough between them for the seam in the transmission to slip into. A rachet strap goes over the trans and under the board to hold it. This gives a flat surface to sit on the floor jack which it does nicely and safely. The second thing I found out was that a 1/4" drive swivel socket will get that top bell housing bolt with no problems. Get a good one that they will replace if you break it. The third thing was that the allignment tool for the clutch disk isn't nearly accurate enough. With the tool in place, align the disk by feel with your fingers before final tighten on the pressure plate. You will find this is about 1/4" closer and will end your alignment woes. I personally prefer a swivel extension in the middle of that 3' socket extension but it isn't really necessary. I love that car. humps, dents, opti and all. I just scanned it again last weekend and it hasn't even thrown a temporary code in 2 years.

After hearing about the rear quarter dings, I got to thinking. At my community college we had a 97 30th anniversary Camaro as one of the "shop" cars. Now most of these cars were donated because they had flood damage or other problems, but the camaro seemed perfect. I asked one of the instructors why we had the Camaro, and he said that there was a problem with the rear quarters. Apparently the stamping process had a flaw in it, and the quarters were dented. I went outside and looked, and asure enough one of the quarters had a large, shallow dent in it. You had to be looking for it to see it, but it was definately there. I have a feeling this was a widespread problem. Maybe some of the sheetmetal was too thin, or the stamping dies were screwed up. I don't know the exact cause, but I believe many cars slipped through quality control, and possibly later on down the road developed problems. Just my .02.

The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

Me too. :)

everyone complains about the optispark, but I deleted mine and installed a hei distributor so now rather than being able to service it from the front I have to drop the engine out because its 6" under the windsheild. Although the pluses do out weigh the negatives, and I hope the go completely tubular on the front end this winter.

94 opti
hump in floor
water in from open windows when spraying window washer & its aimed at window/door latch electronics
Rear hatch water residual when opening, (future rust)
weak & noisy rear end
cheap door motors
spark plug access
small front brake rotors (93-97)
Battery should be in trunk (8 cyl)

Battery should be in trunk (8 cyl)

Takes 18 feet of 4 gauge cable Pretty easy to do :)

I can't believe this thread is still going. I started it well over a year ago--5/25/03. lol.

alright, dont think this was mentioned yet. what about the 80 ft dash and how you have to pretty much sit in both seats to clean it. and what about the special wiper blades? why in hell would you make a special "narrow" blade just for f-bodys. not to mention the fact that theyre like 4 ft. long. hmm. :rolleyes:

oh yeah, and for TA owners, how about trying to clean and wax between the spoiler and the trunk (the little holes)? dont get me wrong, the spoiler is one of my favorite exterior features, its just a pain to try and clean.

I don't know the exact cause, but I believe many cars slipped through quality control, and possibly later on down the road developed problems. Just my .02.

Mine has that problem too... and my friend that has a 99 is starting to see some. I'm wondering that if more of the car had been made out of metal that the dents would have shown up there too? Has anybody found a fix for this yet? I'm betting that it's some sort of body flex problem and if you do a lot of suspension work it might go away.

Oh my...

I could go on, and on and on!

Lets see, how about the head light motor on the TA? ALL the leaky spaces on it? Like after you wash it? I don't care how well you wipe it down, it will look aweful if you drive down the road. I use an elec. blower!

For the Camaro, how about those fog lights? Waterpump, Opti (93-97 stuff)
and everything else that has been mentioned!

There is so many things, I am just going to stop, and go read this post, b/c I have only read page 1 and 10, LOL

I have problems choosing between three main things for me (although all these are pretty annoying)

1. 10 bolt rear (ok certain places you can cut corners...but there?? :rolleyes: )
2. lone cup holder in the center of where my arm is trying to shift (decorated my interior with coffee from that once)
3. gas gauge...although I have learned to read it fine, its still really annoying.

has anyone mentioned the crappy grade paint they use on f-bodies? that and the fact those rubber things under the hood are always breaking making ur hood lopsided and ur tranny mount rips in half once a month

The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)
Hell yeah! Couldn't have said it better myself!!!!

I'm pretty happy with my ride, haven't had any of the problems most people here have mentioned although I'm sure the "design flaws" are in my car just like it's in yours.

Couple things do annoy me though (talking about Firebirds here). Went on a mini trip yesterday to get it ready for the big haul next week down to Dayton, Ohio for the TA Nationals. I'm driving my car and usually I have the steering wheel tilt position set at second from the bottom. With the wheel in this position driving straight the OP gauge is totally obscured by the Airbag on the wheel. You are able to see just the last 1/3 of the top right of the voltmeter gauge.

Those that aren't familiar with the gauge positons on Firebirds the 4 gauges are located at the bottom of the gauge cluster, 2 on each side of the steering column. Water temp and OP are on the left, volts and fuel level are on the right. The top of the airbag module has a slight crest so it rises slightly from the left towards the middle then starts to drop towards the right. With the wheel totally straight and at the setting I have for tilt the OP gauge is totally blind. It would have been better if they put the OP and the fuel level together that way at least you can see a bit of the OP gauge and the needle would usually be at the area you can see. Volts don't usually move that much so even if it's obscured it's not that important while you're driving.

Another thing that's hidden is the turn signals, when you change lanes and you use the signals and move the stalk enough to work the signal but not where it clicks into position you can't see if the light is actually blinking or not, it may just stay on constantly but your outside signals don't work unless the signal is actually blinking. Basically you could be signalling a lane change but other drivers won't see it. The blinking sound is also not loud enough for you to tell if it is blinking or not.

The second one is minor but the OP gauge one I feel is pretty important. I always prefer to be able to see what my water temps are and OP if the vehicle has one. When either one is blinded due to lack of engineering that bothers me. I just can't see the designers of this car not able to pick that one out when they were building and testing the cars in the early stages of development, boggles my mind.

Who is the jackass that said "Let's put the AC lines RIGHT OVER the damn bolts to drop out the front shocks!!!" And on top of that, "Hey while we're at it, let's use some stupidass TORX bolts on the drivers side and regular bolts on the passenger side!" "Yeah that's it now we're talking!!!" :mad:

http://paradox.shacknet.nu/dave88lx/formula/k-member/gm%20craftsmanship.jpg

Not sure if this has ben mentioned, dont have enough time to read this thread. The front shock nut rusts-seizes to shock since there is no place for the water to go except for just settling there. Just finished shocks on my Z and the nuts were rusted so bad that I was almost able to break them off with chisel and hammer but ended up using cut off wheel instead... lot less work and time.

How about having to choose between shutting your doors by the windows (finger prints on the windows) or on the paint (finger prints on the paint).

-James

How about having to choose between shutting your doors by the windows (finger prints on the windows) or on the paint (finger prints on the paint).

-James

Or the door handles ;)

Or the door handles ;)
And that is what I do, but after you wax your baby and you and your bud's go cruising, they NEVER remember (unless they own an fbody).

Sometimes I use the plastic strip between the paint and the window.

Oh man, I used to be a fox body Mustang guy, so my list is long (but most of the items have already been covered previously.)

How about the single exhaust? Mustangs are smaller cars yet have a bigger back seat, lots more room under the hood, way better rearends, and room for dual exhaust (WITH tailpipes and WITHOUT protruding into the floorboards.) Amazes me how poorly GM packaged damn near everything on the car, yet they are so big!

/a front mounted conventional distributor would have been fine thanks, cam driven (or distributorless would have been better!)

Thanks a lot GM. ;)

After reading 11 pages I chuckle as I concur with most points.

I'll add my new personal favorite.

The combination battery tray coolant overflow resevoir! What a great idea! So when the plastic tie down piece breaks; and, you try to take the battery tray out you wind up with alot more than intended at start. The tray bolt is in a perfect location for corrosion and rust when moisture accumulates under the battery. The design is simply flawless if it was intended to make the aggravation meter spike to new heights.

And it's said GM does drug testing on its employees. :D

you ever wonder if the engineers that designed the camaro are monitoring this thread and laughing at us because they caused us all these headaches and still got our money. If there were no design flaws in vehicles then american car companys would loose money and that would put a huge strain on our economy, and lots of people would be out of work. cars that break down after the 30,000 mile warenty is up is a nessesary sacrifice to to keep a huge part of our economy alive. but i still think that the engineers are laughing at us. if you ever get a chance to talk to a automotive engineer you would be suprised to find out how carefully planed out all the hard to reach parts and and cheap electronical are. ist all part of a few year plan, how much moneythey will make on the initial sale and how much they will make over the next decade. so dont be mad we all got screwed. ( aint it funny, the things you think of when your drunk?)

the worst one is the hump on the passenger side floor it's uncomfortable

I duno, i think Optispark below the waterpump is by far the worst flaw. It's a semi expensive part that can damage an even more expensive one with relative ease if your WP fails, your wp leaks at a gasket, your in the middle of installing hte WP, OR your just wanting to change hte opti - you have to take the WP out to do that. To top it off, those with AIR still have to take that off just to get at the WP. Not much but still unneccessary.

Two words.



Fuel gauge :blah:
I think that it s GM flaw not a model specific. I/my parents have yet to own a GM product that doesn't have this problem.

The only flaw I have in my SS is that damn 10 bolt. Why couldn't they have just put the 8.5 10 bolt out of the B-body in these cars?

I think that it s GM flaw not a model specific. I/my parents have yet to own a GM product that doesn't have this problem.

The only flaw I have in my SS is that damn 10 bolt. Why couldn't they have just put the 8.5 10 bolt out of the B-body in these cars?

I was driving somewhere today, only about 3 miles. I left the house with a 1/2 tank of gas. I got to the gym. After I left it was at 1/4 then it went to Empty in about 3 seconds, and a minute after that it went to a little over 1/4.

the whole car is a design flaw.

The Hump is for the Catalytic converter.
I have a hump in the floor board but no cat. converter :rolleyes: Maybe I should pound the floor board back down ;)

:lol: My girlfriend hates that hump too when she sits in the car!!

Fu*king cupholder is my biggest aggravation!! One time I was turning a corner really fast to show off, and a Taco Bell cruiser cup (big cup, with a small bottom to fit into cupholders) flew out, bounced across the passenger seat, and broke open all over my passenger floormat!!

ah men brotha, 2 weeks into having her same thing happened, except its TA style

Window motors, I'm about to be on my 3rd one.:mad:

How about not only the optispark, but the fact that it's directly under the water pump.
As far as the backseat goes, I pulled mine out and built some flat panels to mount my audio crap and filled the T Top storage with woofers. :cool:
Only problem now is that I need a 200 amp alternator. 140 just doesn't get it done anymore.

Yeah, its got its flaws, but come on, if it didn't, everyone and their brother would have one and right now we would prolly be talking about whether or not to hang dice from the mirror. Either that or we would all have mustangs (which also has its share of flaws, but who wants a flawless mindnumbing car?). You don't do stuff because it is easy you do it because of the challenge and the feeling of success when you whip the sh** outta some pony on the road.


P.S. Damn, this post has been going for forever.

I hate my steering box. You 4th genners are lucky.

And I have a million creaks from the front suspension. And it rides like a basketball.

I can say however, it is fun when the pedal is pushed. Beating Supras, supercharged Cobras and other cars that should be winning against a 3rd gen is priceless.

THREAD REVIVAL!!

mine would have to be the factory power seats (i hate power seats)

Since this is "General" and not LT1 specific, lets move this off the LT1 Engine Tech forum.

The worst flaw is that you like to drive it so much that you will put up with petty annoyances and call them "features". You smile every time you put your right foot on the floor, zoom around an expressway ramp or twisty mountain curve and would rather listen to the exhaust note than turn on the stereo. I enjoy my "flawed" car. :)

just putting this one back out there. no matter how many times I hate the little "flaws" of it...I still enjoy driving it. That one day when the weather is perfect, and the road and traffic is just right, makes it worth it to put up with those flaws. My car is pretty much 15 years old now, and I still look back when im walking away from it.

heh, not even gonna ask how you found this thread. mustve had a lot of time on your hands :D

I Didn't read the whole thing but did anyone mention the Heater core in a thirdgen? Its like they forgot that it might need to be changed someday.

How it get's ridiculously hot in a very short amount of time idling. This isn't the cars fault, but when friends push on the windows to close the door, especially after I tell them not to :mad: But I still love my car :yes:

Cup holder. Definitely the damn cup holder.

Logging over 200,000 miles on my '93 Camaro Z28 I bought with 38k on it, I
can say its actually a very well designed car - overall. The LT1 is a wonderful
piece of machinery, and I only replaced the Opti once. The WP is a breeze to
swap, even with the confined quarters. They designed the lower drivers side
WP mounting bolt as a block drain. Because I loved this car so much I bought
a '95 Impala SS clone. It has 227k on it now. I wrote the tech article on the
Impala SS forum regarding the WP seal replacement. My wifes '95 Z28 made
it to 192k with the original opti even AFTER the WP leaked on it at 165k. The
only reason its not still on the road is an accident. Thats one thing I can say
about the build of these cars, we WALKED away from a 60 mph hit into the
center divider going sideway/backward after an SUV attempted an insurance
scam on us. My wife avoided him, but in the process couldnt regain control of
the resulting slide. I didnt bother to read all the pages, but the 4th Gen is a
great car ... it saved my wife and I. That makes it OK in MY book.

Tom

I Love my 96' with over 208,xxx miles on it, but I agree with all the above flaws, and have to add...
1. cooling fans (not coming on)
2. coolant level light
3. center consel lid...wtf? hinges break
4. ASR switch should be reversed to turn on when needed, not turn off when playing around
5. plug wires melting on header
6. water pump
7. heater core plugged up
8. driveshaft "viberation" at high speed, MUST replace to aftermarket!
9. crap headlights, and pricey to replace when yellow/discolor
last but not least, cup holder! my passenger front leather seat is so resistant to spills and window leaks, it just becomes a little lake on a heavy rain or car wash!, never has a chance to soak in! lol
even after all the little fixes, I can name several great bonuses of being a Z28 owner!
And several easy mods adds to the fun.

BTW- after a close call of thinking my car had a blown head gasket, I was brought to tears to think I had to get rid of it, turns out my baby only had a water pump gasket leak less then an 1/8 of an inch away from the head gasket! It may have taken 2 hours of investigating,but it was well worth it!

1. that damn gas tank, its shape and the gauge always going up and down
2. the opti
3. the cupholder

oh, forgot the airpump going out, (this is on all 3 of ours, and several of our friends), so we just removed them. and....
*the msd noise coming through the radio

In both my gf's camaro and mine, the visor swings when I feel like going somewhere quickly.

Then eventually one day as I'm pulling out of the grocery store parking lot, I WOT to merge into traffic and lo and behold the visor strips from the hinge right into my face then my lap. I'm left going what the heck was that as I stop in the median.

I'll edit this post when I take some pictures of the visor.

That I can't afford a 2010 or a 69.

1. that damn gas tank, its shape and the gauge always going up and down
2. the opti
3. the cupholder

They fixed all these issues with the 99 and newer cars.

I was reading the begining of this thread and was just about to throw my 2 cents in when i realized the guy I wanted to say something to post 5 YEARS ago!! :lol:

I have a 97ss. Design "flaws" many (usually when we mod these "stock" vehicles). When I see them, I mod them out of existance. ie...

-MAF power circuit and O2 heater circuit the same... changed.
-No room due to rad over engine... Rad moved.
-Cooling not adequate to FI... Mod WP/ T-Stat and go to Evans media.
-Wimpy 7 1/2" rear... Mod to Moser and HD 3 1/2" shaft.
-Optispark will not take heat and explodes... re-design internals.
-PCV system not suitable for FI... Mod to crank driven Vac pump.
-Rear intake manf leak... Cut 1/32" grove for seal bead retension (no leak)
-Fuel regulator problems... Mod the whole delivery system and rails.
-Can't get to the fuel pump w/o alot of maint work... Cut a hole.
-Body flex excessive... Install under body structure & roll cage.
-Window motors stall... read this site and mod motor power circuit.

Can't get enough of my Camaro performance (like a rocket, only sitting down). I would never sell, or, buy a new, cuz, NEW, can never come close to this performance. Change your Camaro the way you want. That's why they are a great base for mods . The exchange of ideas is where it's at.
B.

Hmmm worst design flaws in a camaro...
- undurable rear-end
- exhaust pipe under the oil pan
- cooling system that cant provide consistent eng temp
- no power antenna(car cover nightmare)
other than that, it's fine.

who elses lil armrest thingy is broken???

who elses arm rest thingy is broken???

who else notices that little spot the windsheild wipers always miss on the left side???