BMR or 1LE sway bars???

Well, I'm looking into having my camaro handle a bit better. I am just looking for something that will make an overall improment for cornering. I won't be doing any auto crossing or road racing. I was looking at the BMR 32/21 sway bars and the 1LE 32/21 sway bars. The 1LE is much cheaper than the BMR, but BMR says theirs are 40% stronger? Is this true, and if so, is it worth getting the BMR over the 1LE. Also, what do you guys recommend for what I am looking for...... a better handling street car.

I can't tell you what bars to get, but I can give you some info.

Calling the 32/21 bars "1LE" is wrong. When GM first brought out the 4th gen in 93 they wanted to go out and win SCCA Showroom Stock races. They developed the 1LE package to do that (no A/C, etc.) The first cut at swaybars was 32/21. After about 20 cars and some real world experience, they decided that was not the hot setup and went to 32/19s and stayed there for the duration. 99% of the 1LE cars used 32/19s. 1LE bars are 32/19.

Bigger is not better. The front bar (and front springs) provide 90% of the roll control. The rear bar tunes the handling by setting the proportion of weight transfer that goes to the front and to the rear. There is a correct rear bar size for your car and where it is driven. Too big is worse than too small.

You can go overboard on roll control. With stiff lowering springs, it is all too easy to make the car so stiff it will be twitchy, particularly in wet weather. Think go-cart.

I come from the school of thinking that says control the roll with massive sway bars and use softer springs. I came to believe in this after I install all of Herb Adams equipment on my 1980 Trans Am. It ended up being one of the best handling cars I've ever driven.

As you can see I use a 35mm bar on the front. I think the biggest front bar you can get is best (I'd get larger if someone made one!). You then use the back bar to tune (or tame, depending on how you look at it) the understeer or oversteer you are comfortable with. I use several different rear bars (I have a 21.5mm and 19mm) just for that. I haven't tried the 25mm rear bar (Sam Stranos seems to think it's too large, who's to argue with success).

What I've discovered (and what all the top guys already know) is that proper shock control is critical in controlling the motion from the bars and springs. Get the BEST shocks you can afford. Talk to Sam to get his ideas about those.

Just keep in mind that your springs, driving habits and expectations come into play here.

Well, like i mentioned before, it's mainly for better street handling...... just shootin the turns and curves. Would I be best off just getting the BMR 32mm front bar and leave the stock rear bar?

A 32mm will be fine but if that's what you're going to get, I'd search for a 1LE bar that someone might be selling. It would be a lot cheaper. Too bad you're in San Fran, I'd sell you mine!

Nice set-up Steve, very similar to mine after I install Sam's pile of goodies! I also have some Borbet type Ts with Kumho Victoracers - I am dying to get out and hit the autoxes here in the Sacramento area.

How do you like your T2R??? Never can have TOO much traction!!;) PLUS cambered?? How much did that cost to have done, just curious? Do you know how much camber you ended up with?

Yea, I haven't raced (except once) since '91 when I won the SEDiv C Prepared Championship. I'm going to be VERY rusty this time around!!!

All the other posis suck compared to the T2R - I have been through a lot of them! Not breaking them, just trying to find a good one for my third gen race car which I am running a Truetrac in right now. After one race I am very unimpressed with it. I think I am going to either have to get a Detriot Locker or a spool ( have a Dana 44 on that car). The fastest drivers I race with all weld their spider gears together. I just can't bring myself to do that, and their cars push, which I don't like. Such a dilemma! If only the T2R were made for the F-body Dana 44!

But how 'bout your '97? Have you autocrossed with the T2R? I understand that a lot of the top cars in ESP used that diff. (I know one that swears to it!).

Originally posted by V6Bob
Calling the 32/21 bars "1LE" is wrong. When GM first brought out the 4th gen in 93 they wanted to go out and win SCCA Showroom Stock races. They developed the 1LE package to do that (no A/C, etc.) The first cut at swaybars was 32/21. After about 20 cars and some real world experience, they decided that was not the hot setup and went to 32/19s and stayed there for the duration. 99% of the 1LE cars used 32/19s. 1LE bars are 32/19.

Minor point, in 93 the 1LE package didn't include the stiffer springs found in the 94+ cars. Hence the reasoning for the larger rear bar.

So its:

93 - Stock springs (292lb/in Front, 114lb/in Rear) , 32/21mm bars

94+ - 1LE springs (360lb/in Front, 130-170lb/in Rear), 32/19mm bars

Steve, the cambering was done by Matt Adams in Carmel Valley, CA - $500. You will notice the difference, however, I would make this the last thing I spend $ on. I can't remember the specs on that, sorry!

I hear that the T2R is what you need to win ESP or whatever SCCA is calling that class these days.

He's not related to Herb Adams is he?? Sounds like something that Herb use to recommend.

Matt is Herb's son.

I should have known!!!!! I use to use all of Herb Adams parts on my '80 Trans Am and it was probably the best handling car I've ever driven. Herb knew his stuff (of course, he should have, he designed the 2nd Gen Trans Am!).

Do they still make any parts for F-bodies?

"Minor point, in 93 the 1LE package didn't include the stiffer springs found in the 94+ cars. Hence the reasoning for the larger rear bar."

Yes, the springs changed, but they _both_ went about 20-30% stiffer, the front only slightly less so than the rear (because of the progressive rate, it's hard to be precise here). The rear bar stiffness was decreased by a whopping 50%, while the front bar was unchanged. That suggests that the rear bar change was more a handling adjustment than a simple response to the spring change.

In any event, making 32/21s sound good by calling them "1LE" is still a crock.

I agree. The 32/21 (or my old 32.5/21.5 if you believe the .5) are just not enough. Going from stock to those just didn't get me where I wanted to be.


The 35mm adds just the right amount of roll stiffness the car needs. I lean more toward a neutral car so the 21 gets me closer than a 19. But, I haven't tried a 24 or 25 yet so can't say what that would feel like.

Speaking of the 32.5/21.5. These were purchased from LG Motorsports. I haven't measured the diameters of these bars but I'd doubt they are anything but 32/21's. So if anyone is considering new LG Motorsports bars and you'd like to save money, find some old 1LE bars. But better yet, but some Suspension Techniques 35/25's. You might not need the big rear bar but if you do a lot of autocrossing, tuning the car for different courses can be easier if you have a small selection of rear bars. The 25 would probably work great for tight courses.

"The 25 would probably work great for tight courses."

Why? Sliding the rear around corners may look cool, but it's slow. You need to be able to get a lot of power down early coming out of the slow corners in first gear, and the 25 will hurt you there.

Do you know of any really successful autocrossers that use the 25?

Only for tight courses. Depending on your setup, the 19mm might give too much understeer. Each course is different. Just because you're more neutral doesn't mean your going to be sliding. You're right, it does mean you might not be able to get as much power to the ground but on a really tight course, getting the rear to rotate might be be an advantage. Most courses we run on here or even at the divisional or national level would NOT require a bar that large. For me, the 21mm is fine for the rear and maybe the 19mm for wide open courses. I've run on some courses where I wish I had a 25mm! For now, I'l stick to my 21.5mm.

No I don't. Just making a point about bar sizes. Like I said in my previous post. There have been times where I wished I had a 25!! But it's rare. Not only that, a 25mm WOULD be too much for the street.

Sanger for street I think the 32/21 will give you improvment.But like these guys are talkin I think you can see that you dont really need to do the rear I take it.But couldnt hurt.
I'm not sure where Morgan Hill is? If near Sacramento I know of a guy selling the LG motorsports G2 bars 32.5/21.5 for $150 you pick up.Let me know and I'll forward his info for you if interested...heck anyone else too thats interested.I've bought parts from him before...good guy I'm sure they are in good shape complete w/ Energy suspension end links bushins,and shaft bushins.

I myself am getting Suspension Technoligies 35mm solid front and retaining the 19mm,but I also have a 21mm if I need,and a 14mm.Been trying to figure when a 14mm would be a good choice for rear bar... hint hint bruecksteve,Bob 1FS:p

A 14mm is too small. You'd end up with too much understeer.

Originally posted by bruecksteve
A 14mm is too small. You'd end up with too much understeer.

So if to much oversteer on a peticular coarse was happening with 19mm it'd be worth a try? The 14mm is the stock rear bar off my v6.
On the Z28 I really intend on keeping the 19mm rear in,and trying the 21mm rear I have also for some differences at the tracks I go to soon.

Don't confuse REAL oversteer with a heavy foot!:D Seriously, I doubt you have too much oversteer with a 14mm. Did you run that track in the V6 or the V8?

Well I guess I go ahead with the solid ST 35mm front bar and leave the rear alone.

Morgan Hill is near south San Jose.

Originally posted by #7
So if to much oversteer on a peticular coarse was happening with 19mm it'd be worth a try?

that was a hypothetical question w/ 19mm on the Z. I gather I'll never need this 14mm bar should just throw away I guess.
I plan on primarily using the 35mm w/ 19mm & 21mm rears for the best feel I find.
But on the v6 the 32/21 and Konis w/ Eibach pros works good,very happy.But also may rip the 19mm off the Z and try it on the v6 if ever gets back to the track,wife kinda thinks its hers now cant get her outa it.And my focus is kinda directed towards the Z28 now.And its coming along slow :( too slow especially since Uncle Sam and the State just raped me this year and took almost all my mods savings:mad:

The 32/21 1LE's work just fine on roadcourses. But it's probably too much rear/too little front for autocrossing.