2004 Impreza WRX STi MSRP $30,995

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-23-2003/0001931993&EDATE=

HID's and Brembo's.. side air bags.. 300 hp/300 lb-ft not bad.. think they still look ugly..


I forgot Subaru is headquatered in my home town... :)

The WRX STi is about the only non-Ford that's come out lately that excites me.

Sounds good, too bad it is fugly. If GM made the G6 it would steal so many sale away from this car.

THis would also be a good time for a turbo I5 GMC Syclone.

Better looking than the gimmicky looking Lancer EVO IMO.
Ditch the tacky rear wing/spoiler and it looks good. That wing just yells 'rice'.

Originally posted by Z28Marcus
Better looking than the gimmicky looking Lancer EVO IMO.
Ditch the tacky rear wing/spoiler and it looks good. That wing just yells 'rice'.

Actually, Subaru was forced to tone down the looks of the Impreza. Americans liked the old "bug-eyed" look, but Europe and Japan didn't. Too bad...

Anyway, I'm amazed that Subaru didn't just turn up the boost on the regular WRX. That's precisely what Audi/VW does with their 20-valve turbo 1.8. There's some actually equipment to back up the higher price.

Unfortunately, I keep thinking $20K SRT-4. Maybe Sube is headed in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by Ken S

I forgot Subaru is headquatered in my home town... :)

Cherry Hill, NJ?

Not exactly the cup of tea for a Camaro site, but I actually like these cars.

Having said that, I think $30,000 is a bit high for what is basically a factory tuned $15,000 sedan. In it's favor, it represents exactly what '60s era muscle cars were. Engine packages that doubled the price of the car, while having some legendary performance, which these cars do. But then you get into the same questions asked back in the 60s, "these cheap cars with these engines are awfully close in price to supposedly more expensive cars". Some very cheap cars of the 60s ended up costing more than purpose built quick cars like the Z28 or mid grade Corvettes.

At $20 grand, I'd say these cars are great. At $25K, I'd say OK. But at $30K, I really start wondering what it would cost to have the job done yourself, and that's when I start wondering wouldn't I rather have a comfortable, faster, and just about as quick LS1 GTO (let alone an LS6 version). :think:

Originally posted by guionM
Not exactly the cup of tea for a Camaro site, but I actually like these cars.

Having said that, I think $30,000 is a bit high for what is basically a factory tuned $15,000 sedan. In it's favor, it represents exactly what '60s era muscle cars were. Engine packages that doubled the price of the car, while having some legendary performance, which these cars do. But then you get into the same questions asked back in the 60s, "these cheap cars with these engines are awfully close in price to supposedly more expensive cars". Some very cheap cars of the 60s ended up costing more than purpose built quick cars like the Z28 or mid grade Corvettes.

Apparently some people back in the 60s would have agreed. The aluminum block ZL-1 Camaro was awesome, but for Corvette prices nobody was buying. Is it any surprise that leftover ZL-1 stocks lead GM to invent the "factory rebate?"

At $20 grand, I'd say these cars are great. At $25K, I'd say OK. But at $30K, I really start wondering what it would cost to have the job done yourself, and that's when I start wondering wouldn't I rather have a comfortable, faster, and just about as quick LS1 GTO (let alone an LS6 version). :think:

So by this standard, the SRT-4 is a great bargain, the standard Impreza WRX is acceptable, and the WRX STi and EVO are really pushing the price envelope. Given the choice between an Evo and a GTO, I'd have to go GTO myself. The new Poncho may look a little like a sedan, the Commodore, but at least its not an economy car beneath the mods. I might look more kindly on the STi, but the base WRX is a fairly decent car for $6K less.[/QUOTE]

People who buy a $15K car with $16K of options will soon feel even more stupid than those who paid over sticker for a ZR1.

Plus, it's ugly and sounds like a tractor.

Originally posted by centric
People who buy a $15K car with $16K of options will soon feel even more stupid than those who paid over sticker for a ZR1.

Plus, it's ugly and sounds like a tractor.

Sounds like a tractor? :rolleyes: I'm willing to bet you've never heard the exhaust on one--certainly not this car as it's not even on the streets yet. My WRX is very quiet and hearing the turbo spool up is actually pretty enjoyable. You see these fart-nozzled Civics and Neons on the streets and categorize these well-engineered Evos and WRXs as the same thing.

As far as pricing--what the hell is a WS6 or an SS? It's a 17k base Camaro with 17K of options. I hate to break it to you, but a base Camaro isn't that glamorous either. Some of you are up to your eyes in bullsh_t and double standards.

hmm...let's dissect my ws6 from a base firebird (btw, just saying things that all f-body owners already know):

first off, it was $30k, not $34k (?)
next is the bulletproof ls1, making a laughably rated 325 horsepower and 350 ft/lbs backed by a six speed gearbox.
upgraded suspension
upgraded interior
upgraded sound system
upgraded body panels (spoiler, nose, hood)
upgraded exhaust
t-tops
bigger wheels/tires
and maybe most important of all, upgraded resale value

price all of those things out and see if they come up to around 13K, because i think it's right on the money. is it worth the extra $13k to move up to seriously enabled sports car from it's alreadly mildy sporty base model? some people think so (i.e. me), but some might not, so...

Now, is it worth doubling the price of a car designed for gas mileage and general commuting purposes to get it to perform like a sports car with a big engine? some might say, some might not.

the difference people are trying to point out is that when you buy a high-end camaro/firebird, you're starting out with a sports car - the base model is a sports car. and it's not like the car was designed for a v-6 anyway, they merely install those engines to sell in mass quantities. when you buy a high end impreza or lancer, you're starting out with an econobox not designed for the same purposes as the sports car (although the impreza might be, idk). They were designed for the small, wimpy engines that come in their base models, and to put around town saving gas. do you see the distinction? i'm not trying to flame, i'm just pointing out a different viewpoint.

Originally posted by jrp4uc
Sounds like a tractor? :rolleyes: I'm willing to bet you've never heard the exhaust on one--certainly not this car as it's not even on the streets yet. My WRX is very quiet and hearing the turbo spool up is actually pretty enjoyable. You see these fart-nozzled Civics and Neons on the streets and categorize these well-engineered Evos and WRXs as the same thing.

As far as pricing--what the hell is a WS6 or an SS? It's a 17k base Camaro with 17K of options. I hate to break it to you, but a base Camaro isn't that glamorous either. Some of you are up to your eyes in bullsh_t and double standards.

No, a WRX doesn't sound like a tractor, and as I've mentioned before (not aimed at you jrp4uc) these are really amazing little cars. The WRX at $24,000 with AWD & a 0-60 time about as fast as an LT1 (unless they are already rolling or it's hot outside :D) are OK. But at $30K, that's getting a bit much.

I think the point being raised is that the Legacy and Impreza are designed & engineered from day one as cheap, economical sedans, whereas Camaro is purpose built as a high capability car. Cavaliers tend to cost more than Lancers or Impreza. Even if Cavalier was better made, what would be the reaction of a $30,000 version, even with AWD & a turbo?

Not questioning the car, but I don't think it's worth the $6,000 premium over your own WRX jrp4uc, let alone knocking on the door of the price of a supercharged Cobra.

Originally posted by centric
People who buy a $15K car with $16K of options will soon feel even more stupid than those who paid over sticker for a ZR1.

Plus, it's ugly and sounds like a tractor.

STi's and EVO's can be considered no excuse performance cars. Mid 13's and near 1g , these cars do it ALL well. They even carry an extra couple of people in the back seat.

It amazes me how a community of performance enthusiasts hates a car that performs so well and only costs $30K. Who cares where it came from, that means a whole lot of nothing. It might share the same basic unibody as the impreza, but it is heavily reinforced and modified. This isn't just an ipreza w/some bolt ons.

This may be the new generation of muscle cars. WRX = z/28 STi = SS.

It will be interesting to see how the mustang and future comaro compete with this.

Originally posted by slt
STi's and EVO's can be considered no excuse performance cars. Mid 13's and near 1g , these cars do it ALL well. They even carry an extra couple of people in the back seat.

It amazes me how a community of performance enthusiasts hates a car that performs so well and only costs $30K. Who cares where it came from, that means a whole lot of nothing. It might share the same basic unibody as the impreza, but it is heavily reinforced and modified. This isn't just an ipreza w/some bolt ons.

This may be the new generation of muscle cars. WRX = z/28 STi = SS.

It will be interesting to see how the mustang and future comaro compete with this.


My biggest problem with these cars are the wrappers they come in...

Not trying to flame, but, to me, they look like homely 80's Japanese 4-door cars, that have been sent to the local ricer for appearance mods. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

Originally posted by Darth Xed
My biggest problem with these cars are the wrappers they come in...

Not trying to flame, but, to me, they look like homely 80's Japanese 4-door cars, that have been sent to the local ricer for appearance mods. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

Isn't Chevy heavily associated w/Subaru?? I remember hearing somewhere that they were going to bring out a chevy version of the WRX. Maybe a non POS cavalier?? Maybe that would look better.

Originally posted by WERM
Cherry Hill, NJ?


Yup.. Born and raised there.. Drive by their headquaters on route 70 on the way to Philly..

Moved to Oregon after college to work..

anyways, if this was available back in 99 when I was getting my Camaro.. I would have considered the STi too.

Not thrilled about the $30k price, but considering I saw 2002 SS's and Firebirds going for about $32k (at a car show i saw a Firebird with sticker price of $36,000.. litereally people were saying "$36k for a Firebird? What?") An Audi A4 starts around $30k... so the price isn't totally out there...

How close are production WRX and Evo's to the ones to those Rally races?

Originally posted by slt
Isn't Chevy heavily associated w/Subaru?? I remember hearing somewhere that they were going to bring out a chevy version of the WRX. Maybe a non POS cavalier?? Maybe that would look better.

Ya, there were a few rumors flying around of something like that (Chevy badged WRX), but it never came to be, and I think they were just rumors.

Actually, the way it sounds, the new 2005/6 AWD Grand Am from Pontiac might be a serious contender in this field.... , especially if it offers hot performance, AWD, and (the lynch pin to me) acceptable looks ....time will tell.

As for Cavalier... well, I certainly won't argue that it is old and outdated... but at least the Delta replacement is coming for 2005. They have a prototype line set up at Lordstown Assembly already from what I've heard from people from the plant.

Originally posted by guionM
I think the point being raised is that the Legacy and Impreza are designed & engineered from day one as cheap, economical sedans, whereas Camaro is purpose built as a high capability car. Cavaliers tend to cost more than Lancers or Impreza. Even if Cavalier was better made, what would be the reaction of a $30,000 version, even with AWD & a turbo?

See, therein lies the fallacy. The Impreza has considerable amounts of time and research put into engineering a platform capable of performance because of the participation in World Rally Competition. Don't think that is not the case just because WRC isn't as popular over here! These ARE NOT Cavaliers and Neons with an afterthought makeover. Just ask Subaru if they did not have performance in mind when they were developing the latest Impreza. In fact, I'll wager its chassis is considerably more performance-oriented than the latest F-bodies! And my WRX which finds its roots in a "cheap, economical" sedan, has vastly better quality and fit&finish inside and out than inferrably superior F-body.

Again, it withstands that people are unfamiliar with these cars and resort to generalizations for what is a vast, and varied range of cars built under different circumstances. You are asbolutely right, I would have a problem with a $30,000 Cavalier!

BTW, the "lowly" Impreza RS has an MSRP of $19945--not $12 or $15k. Again, this is not the samething as a mass-produced nofrills/cheap Cavalier and Neon.

Originally posted by slt
Isn't Chevy heavily associated w/Subaru?? I remember hearing somewhere that they were going to bring out a chevy version of the WRX. Maybe a non POS cavalier?? Maybe that would look better.

GM does own 20% of Subaru's parent company Fuji Heavy Industries. They are going to base the new Saab 9-2 five-door off of the WRX.

Originally posted by jrp4uc
See, therein lies the fallacy. The Impreza and Lancer have considerable amounts of time and research put into engineering a platform capable of performance because of their participation in World Rally Competition. Don't think that is not the case just because WRC isn't as popular over here! These ARE NOT Cavaliers and Neons with an afterthought makeover. Just ask Subaru if they did not have performance in mind when they were developing the latest Impreza. In fact, I'll wager its chassis is considerably more performance-oriented than the latest F-bodies! And my WRX which finds its roots in a "cheap, economical" sedan, has vastly better quality and fit&finish inside and out than inferrably superior F-body.

Again, it withstands that people are unfamiliar with these cars and resort to generalizations for what is a vast, and varied range of cars built under different circumstances. You are asbolutely right, I would have a problem with a $30,000 Cavalier!

The problem you'd have with a $30,000 Cavalier is what some people have paying $30 grand for the WRX & EVO. Imagine GM's performance division taking the Cavalier chassis & adding all the reinforcements & upgrades done to the Lancer & Impreza, as you point out, you'd have a bit of a problem with it. That's how I view the new EVO and upgraded WRX.

I don't think anyone's saying the cars are junk, and that alot of effort hasn't went into making these cars able to handle the power & traction of turbo AWD. But even giving every single benefit imaginable to structural and performance upgrades, I honestly don't see how it costs $6,000 more than a already modified current edition WRX.

Then again, there's that $4,000 Camaro SS hood & label package, so maybe GM's influence at Subaru is increasing & rubbing off at Mitsubishi. :lol:

Originally posted by jrp4uc
See, therein lies the fallacy. The Impreza has considerable amounts of time and research put into engineering a platform capable of performance because of the participation in World Rally Competition. Don't think that is not the case just because WRC isn't as popular over here! These ARE NOT Cavaliers and Neons with an afterthought makeover. Just ask Subaru if they did not have performance in mind when they were developing the latest Impreza. In fact, I'll wager its chassis is considerably more performance-oriented than the latest F-bodies! And my WRX which finds its roots in a "cheap, economical" sedan, has vastly better quality and fit&finish inside and out than inferrably superior F-body.

Again, it withstands that people are unfamiliar with these cars and resort to generalizations for what is a vast, and varied range of cars built under different circumstances. You are asbolutely right, I would have a problem with a $30,000 Cavalier!

BTW, the "lowly" Impreza RS has an MSRP of $19945--not $12 or $15k. Again, this is not the samething as a mass-produced nofrills/cheap Cavalier and Neon.

It's funny how factory "rally cars" began as homologation specials for competition cars. At some point, manufacturers in Europe and Japan figured out that these cars would sell in reasonable numbers. They aren't highly engineered in the same sense as a Corvette or BMW. In fact, other than the late, great Ford Escort Cosworth and Lancia Delta Integrale, they are just econo-sedans with tacked on performance.

Of course, I forgot to mention that rally cars caught on in America because of videogames - thank you Sony Playstation. In our country these cars will see less dirt than a soccer mom's Explorer. Cars like the WRX and Evo are just replacements for the import performance coupes that died or were watered down. It's all about fantasy.

The Dodge SRT-4 puts fantasy aside, because after all, it doesn't pretend to be a homologation special. D-C is daring to be different, and instead of milking the rally car spin, they're offering a genuine performance value. Sure, they could have larded it up with AWD and Brembo brakes, but then it would have been another pricey poser. If a person can get past the image of driving a Neon, an SRT-4 is the mature performance choice.

Originally posted by redzed
Of course, I forgot to mention that rally cars caught on in America because of videogames - thank you Sony Playstation. In our country these cars will see less dirt than a soccer mom's Explorer. Cars like the WRX and Evo are just replacements for the import performance coupes that died or were watered down. It's all about fantasy.

The Dodge SRT-4 puts fantasy aside, because after all, it doesn't pretend to be a homologation special. D-C is daring to be different, and instead of milking the rally car spin, they're offering a genuine performance value. Sure, they could have larded it up with AWD and Brembo brakes, but then it would have been another pricey poser. If a person can get past the image of driving a Neon, an SRT-4 is the mature performance choice.

Well these cars were and continue to be popular elsewhere before starring in video games. :rolleyes: Maybe AWD and Brembo brakes are poser components to you, but to most they provide legitimate benefits. Then again, you consider torque steer to be a postitive factor in a "mature performance choice." The SRT-4 is a nice car on a TIGHT budget. It's better than a Sentra SE-R or SVT Focus, but it's short of these other cars were tossing around.

Funny how on a board centered around a car that made a name for itself from various racing series, the idea of "milking" participation in another racing series would be considered a bad thing. I guess Chevy or Pontiac have never pushed the IROC or TA angle. And how did "Z/28" come to be again?? :rolleyes:

Some of you just like going to lengths to slam what are perfectly legitimate performance cars.

Originally posted by jrp4uc
Some of you just like going to lengths to slam what are perfectly legitimate performance cars.

I agree with you 100%. The Evo and the new WRX are both Awesome cars and if you ask me, the tight suspension, 50-70hp, Brembo Brakes, AWD, HID's and other features are definately worth the extra $10,000 that youd spend on these cars vs. a SRT-4 or anythign like it. Hell, these cars are great performers at a great price.

Originally posted by guionM
Then again, there's that $4,000 Camaro SS hood & label package, so maybe GM's influence at Subaru is increasing & rubbing off at Mitsubishi. :lol:


you mean $4000 Hood, spoiler, rims, tires, exhust, suspension, badge package:D

Originally posted by guionM
Then again, there's that $4,000 Camaro SS hood & label package, so maybe GM's influence at Subaru is increasing & rubbing off at Mitsubishi. :lol:

I'd say 75hp and highly improved suspension and brakes are a bit more than a "hood and label package".

Originally posted by MunchE
I'd say 75hp and highly improved suspension and brakes are a bit more than a "hood and label package".

75 horsepower increase?!!!! :no: :lol:

Sorry, my friend, that's only in the brochures. Especially since 1999, the actual difference between the base $23,000 Z28 and your $30,000+ SS is BARELY 15hp, if that. To put this into perspective, that's roughly a K&N filter & a cat back system on a base Z28. The last few years, all LS blocks were the same (both the LS1 & the LS6's difference was pretty much limited to the induction system and heads). All LS1s, including the base Z28s, SSs, and Corvette LS1s all had very close to the same horsepower. Chevrolet simply GROSSLY underrated the base Z28's horsepower to make the closer to actual HP ratings of the SS seem like a big jump. Pretty much every RWHP test ever done of the 2 cars bear this out.

That hood induction system added next to no actual performance advantage to the stock Z28. In the final few years, the ONLY difference between Corvette's LS1 & the F-body's was that the F-body had a cam that brought torque on at lower RPM, and that Corvette had a less restrictive exhaust (due more to the manifold than the rest of the system).

As for the suspension & brakes, the bottom line performance difference is very marginal at best.

In the end, the whole package isn't worth the extra price by a long shot. A magazine (I'd have to look it up) got far better performance out of a Z28 with relatively low cost tweaks (under $1000 total) than what was done with the $3,000 SS package.

Sorry to be the one to break this to ya. :(

Originally posted by guionM
75 horsepower increase?!!!! :no: :lol:

Sorry, my friend, that's only in the brochures. Especially since 1999, the actual difference between the base $23,000 Z28 and your $30,000+ SS is BARELY 15hp, if that. To put this into perspective, that's roughly a K&N filter & a cat back system on a base Z28. The last few years, all LS blocks were the same (both the LS1 & the LS6's difference was pretty much limited to the induction system and heads). All LS1s, including the base Z28s, SSs, and Corvette LS1s all had very close to the same horsepower. Chevrolet simply GROSSLY underrated the base Z28's horsepower to make the closer to actual HP ratings of the SS seem like a big jump. Pretty much every RWHP test ever done of the 2 cars bear this out.

That hood induction system added next to no actual performance advantage to the stock Z28. In the final few years, the ONLY difference between Corvette's LS1 & the F-body's was that the F-body had a cam that brought torque on at lower RPM, and that Corvette had a less restrictive exhaust (due more to the manifold than the rest of the system).

As for the suspension & brakes, the bottom line performance difference is very marginal at best.

In the end, the whole package isn't worth the extra price by a long shot. A magazine (I'd have to look it up) got far better performance out of a Z28 with relatively low cost tweaks (under $1000 total) than what was done with the $3,000 SS package.

Sorry to be the one to break this to ya. :(

I think he was talking about the Evo/WRX Sti. :confused: :think:

Originally posted by bigsteve7
I think he was talking about the Evo/WRX Sti. :confused: :think:


Yeah I was comparing the WRX to the WRX STi. Stock WRX is 225 hp, WRX STi is 300hp. Not to mention that the engine is actually different (2.5L vs. 2.0L).

I agree that the Camaro SS package is a lot of money for not a whole lot of stuff. I'd still want one if I had an LS-1 tho, the scoop makes them look so much better. :-D

Originally posted by guionM
75 horsepower increase?!!!! :no: :lol:

Sorry, my friend, that's only in the brochures. Especially since 1999, the actual difference between the base $23,000 Z28 and your $30,000+ SS is BARELY 15hp, if that. To put this into perspective, that's roughly a K&N filter & a cat back system on a base Z28. The last few years, all LS blocks were the same (both the LS1 & the LS6's difference was pretty much limited to the induction system and heads). All LS1s, including the base Z28s, SSs, and Corvette LS1s all had very close to the same horsepower. Chevrolet simply GROSSLY underrated the base Z28's horsepower to make the closer to actual HP ratings of the SS seem like a big jump. Pretty much every RWHP test ever done of the 2 cars bear this out.

That hood induction system added next to no actual performance advantage to the stock Z28. In the final few years, the ONLY difference between Corvette's LS1 & the F-body's was that the F-body had a cam that brought torque on at lower RPM, and that Corvette had a less restrictive exhaust (due more to the manifold than the rest of the system).

As for the suspension & brakes, the bottom line performance difference is very marginal at best.

In the end, the whole package isn't worth the extra price by a long shot. A magazine (I'd have to look it up) got far better performance out of a Z28 with relatively low cost tweaks (under $1000 total) than what was done with the $3,000 SS package.

Sorry to be the one to break this to ya. :(

I would still argue that the $4,000 SLP packages were worth it, although not for me. Sure, the power upgrade was good mostly for sound effects, but these cars were more about handling and style. In any case, you couldn't beat the value of the SS upgrades, unless you were willing to spend time and money on voiding your waranty. These days, GM even treats aftermarket rims as waranty voiding features.

Another thing that irks me is this K&N airfilter crap. Any idiot can make a less restrictive airfilter, but the factory unit is normally better at keeping "foriegn particles" out of the engine. Modern catback exhaust are another issue - buy one for the sound effects, not because you expect major performance. In any case, none of these simple mods amount to much horsepower for the money.

Originally posted by redzed
I would still argue that the $4,000 SLP packages were worth it, although not for me. Sure, the power upgrade was good mostly for sound effects, but these cars were more about handling and style. In any case, you couldn't beat the value of the SS upgrades, unless you were willing to spend time and money on voiding your waranty. These days, GM even treats aftermarket rims as waranty voiding features.


How can they be "worth it"? It's not like GM didn't install Wheels, Spoilers, Hoods, sway bars and badges on every other Camaro. You were getting those things anyway, and the ones on the SS weren't $4,000 "better".

Originally posted by WERM
How can they be "worth it"? It's not like GM didn't install Wheels, Spoilers, Hoods, sway bars and badges on every other Camaro. You were getting those things anyway, and the ones on the SS weren't $4,000 "better".

You guys seem to be forgettnig the whole aspect of having an exclusive model.

I could own a 1967 Chevelle SS or a 1967 Chevelle with a 396 dropped in and SS badges. Which would you rather have? Which comands more of a price on the market? The cars have a little extra value to them. Not everyone spends their money purely for performance. Whether its worth it or not is up to the buyer.

Originally posted by WERM
How can they be "worth it"? It's not like GM didn't install Wheels, Spoilers, Hoods, sway bars and badges on every other Camaro. You were getting those things anyway, and the ones on the SS weren't $4,000 "better".

I'm looking at what those modifications meant for performance. Even with a 200lb weight disadvantage, a SS could nearly match the lap-times of a pre-Z06 Corvette. On the track, the Camaro SS was worth every penny. Say what you want, but a Z28 with the performance suspension option still wasn't nearly the equal of the SLP car.

That said, I didn't buy my Z28 to drive on the track. I liked the hood scoop on the SS, but the rest of the package left me cold. There again, I'm the sort of wierdo who actually ordered the 2.73 rear end and base Eagle GAs.

For the people who actually cared about on-track handling, the only downside of the SS was that the capabilities of the chassis were in excess of the available power. The Camaro SS could easy have taken a 400hp LS-6 without the need for any suspension or braking upgrades.

Worth it? Duh. :D

If GM made the G6 it would steal so many sale away from this car.

if if if.... i'm sure GM could do it but it will never happen... why would they? they killed off the camaro and are platform sharing the vette!:mad:

as far as the STi being worth it? yes.. it is
it's definately worth it... 75 extra hp might not be much because you can just crank up the boost on a regular WRX and make the same power... BUT you get essentially a stoker kit, a reinforced block, the TD04 is replaced with an IHI VF series turbo, mylobdenum coated pistons, a few other internal tweaks i cant remember plus the suspension and tires package

from a tuning standpoint, you can do alot more with an STi then a regular WRX... so yeah, it's worth it

Not to mention that the STI has a semi closed deck block for added strength.

Dont underestimate AWD turbo cars. Sombody has already got the new lancers to run 12.5 in the 1/4 mi with just bolt on parts. They pull near 1 G stock.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24099&highlight=evo

I expect the STI to turn even better times with simple mods given its larger displacement. Given about $1500 in mods these two cars would absolutely RAPE even the almighty zo6 on the street.

Really cant argue with numbers. You can even drive these cars year round.

Originally posted by redzed
I'm looking at what those modifications meant for performance. Even with a 200lb weight disadvantage, a SS could nearly match the lap-times of a pre-Z06 Corvette. On the track, the Camaro SS was worth every penny. Say what you want, but a Z28 with the performance suspension option still wasn't nearly the equal of the SLP car.

That said, I didn't buy my Z28 to drive on the track. I liked the hood scoop on the SS, but the rest of the package left me cold. There again, I'm the sort of wierdo who actually ordered the 2.73 rear end and base Eagle GAs.

For the people who actually cared about on-track handling, the only downside of the SS was that the capabilities of the chassis were in excess of the available power. The Camaro SS could easy have taken a 400hp LS-6 without the need for any suspension or braking upgrades.

Worth it? Duh. :D

I never said the SS wasn't better. But installing $400 worth of more expensive parts and charging $4,000 doesn't seem like a value to me. They give away ram-air on Grand Am GT's, so why again should it cost so much on say, a Firebird? Almost every other performance car had 17" wheels as standard or an option, but on Camaro you had to buy an SS. You could say exclusivity, but SS was limited only by how many they could sell. Other than the fact that the Z28 was dulled down to look like a base model, what made the SS package worth it? I don't see much.

You didn't have to pay $30,000 to get a good looking Mustang (if you did, you at least got a unique engine). And people wondered why they sold more Mustang GT's than Camaros...

What Subaru has done with the WRX and STi is little different than what Detroit has done with its cars for the last 40 years or so - take a relatively ho-hum base model, dress it up with some honest performance parts (many of which draw from factory racing efforts), and sell that vehicle with a healthy profit margin. The end customer ends up with a somewhat-exclusive car with healthy performance, so he thinks he's getting a bargain, and the OEM ends up with a nice "halo" vehicle that draws people into showroom.

Open up your minds a bit, and the STi is a hell of a lot like a top-of-the-line late-60s musclecar. The performance is there, the racing heritage is there, and frankly the base Impreza ain't that bad of a car so you still end up with a practical, usable vehicle.

Originally posted by WERM
I never said the SS wasn't better. But installing $400 worth of more expensive parts and charging $4,000 doesn't seem like a value to me. They give away ram-air on Grand Am GT's, so why again should it cost so much on say, a Firebird? Almost every other performance car had 17" wheels as standard or an option, but on Camaro you had to buy an SS. You could say exclusivity, but SS was limited only by how many they could sell. Other than the fact that the Z28 was dulled down to look like a base model, what made the SS package worth it? I don't see much.

You didn't have to pay $30,000 to get a good looking Mustang (if you did, you at least got a unique engine). And people wondered why they sold more Mustang GT's than Camaros...

Are you saying the SS amounted to $400 worth of parts? I couldn't do a tire/wheel upgrade on my Z28 for less than $1,000! Furthermore, don't confuse the "Ram-Air" on a Grand Am GT with full-monty SLP conversion.

Anyway, it would be fair to say that the Z28 Camaro will be the last 300hp+ muscle car to have 16 inch tires. I was just as happy that my Z28 had a relatively high-profile tires because I valued a degree of ride comfort. Judging by the number of luxury cars with 18" rims and 45-profile tires, ride comfort doesn't have to suffer because of performance rubber. There again, most of those cars have way more wheel travel than the F-body, and alot more sophisticated shock absorber valving.

Finally, I'm sick of arguing the "cheap" Mustang GT vs. "expensive" Z28 arguement. The F4 is dead, and so is the value arguement. If you're saying that only the Camaro SS could compete with the GT on the basis of styling... :irk:

Time moves on, and the Dodge SRT-4 has taken up the cheap performance mantle. Maybe its time for us to argue Mustang GT versus Insane Turbo Neon. The little Dodge even has 17" rims.;) :usa:

Originally posted by MunchE
Yeah I was comparing the WRX to the WRX STi. Stock WRX is 225 hp, WRX STi is 300hp. Not to mention that the engine is actually different (2.5L vs. 2.0L).

I agree that the Camaro SS package is a lot of money for not a whole lot of stuff. I'd still want one if I had an LS-1 tho, the scoop makes them look so much better. :-D

:o Had Camaro on the brain...:o

But is 75 horsepower and half a second to 60 (if I'm not wrong on that) really worth $6,000? :shock:

Originally posted by redzed
I'm looking at what those modifications meant for performance. Even with a 200lb weight disadvantage, a SS could nearly match the lap-times of a pre-Z06 Corvette. On the track, the Camaro SS was worth every penny. Say what you want, but a Z28 with the performance suspension option still wasn't nearly the equal of the SLP car.

That said, I didn't buy my Z28 to drive on the track. I liked the hood scoop on the SS, but the rest of the package left me cold. There again, I'm the sort of wierdo who actually ordered the 2.73 rear end and base Eagle GAs.

For the people who actually cared about on-track handling, the only downside of the SS was that the capabilities of the chassis were in excess of the available power. The Camaro SS could easy have taken a 400hp LS-6 without the need for any suspension or braking upgrades.

Worth it? Duh. :D

Actually... Redplanet himself was actually one of the guys here who said that till the C5 got active handling, the Camaro Z28 would slightly outrun a non Z06 Corvette around the track.

Every test I ever saw of the SS and Z28 of the last few years showed next to no difference in horsepower, and though the SS rides rougher, minimal differences in handling. SS has the edge, but it still boiled down to $3-4,000 for a hoodscoop, badges and a rougher ride. Being that unlike Ford's SVT cars, Chevrolet didn't make SS a limited edition, there isn't anything exclusive about it.

Worth it? :no:

Originally posted by redzed
]Are you saying the SS amounted to $400 worth of parts? I couldn't do a tire/wheel upgrade on my Z28 for less than $1,000! Furthermore, don't confuse the "Ram-Air" on a Grand Am GT with full-monty SLP conversion.


No, I'm saying the INCREMENTAL COST to General Motors to install 17" wheels and tires instead of 16's and a taller spoiler instead of a shorter one and thicker swaybars instead of thinner and one hood instead of the other, etc. is a lot closer to $400 than $4000.

Originally posted by WERM
No, I'm saying the INCREMENTAL COST to General Motors to install 17" wheels and tires instead of 16's and a taller spoiler instead of a shorter one and thicker swaybars instead of thinner and one hood instead of the other, etc. is a lot closer to $400 than $4000.

Not when a Z28 was pretty much completed on the assembly line then sent to SLP to become a SS.:eek: